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Post by partickpotter on Aug 13, 2021 13:41:23 GMT
I wouldn't be so sure. My cynical self thinks that if this has been quietly and efficiently resolved we won't hear a word. The silence since that story broke makes me suspect that is what has happened. There isn't silence, the government are giving regular updates on progress with processing EU and Swiss nationals. There were supposed to be circa 3 to 3.5 million EU national in the UK at the time of the referendum. So far the government has processed over 5 million, received over 6 million, and even received 10s of thousands after the closure date at the end of June. Details in link below. Despite being at full stretch the government is still urging people to apply who have still failed to do so, and posting notifications to employers on what to do. I've not heard yet of an employer being prosecuted for illegally employing anyone, which could cost an employer c. £20,000. The government has made £22 million available to organizations to assist deprived persons to secure their rights to settlement. Yesterday's post: www.gov.uk/government/news/thousands-more-citizens-granted-status-through-settlement-schemeI was talking about the silence of the media on this individual case.
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 13, 2021 14:41:21 GMT
There isn't silence, the government are giving regular updates on progress with processing EU and Swiss nationals. There were supposed to be circa 3 to 3.5 million EU national in the UK at the time of the referendum. So far the government has processed over 5 million, received over 6 million, and even received 10s of thousands after the closure date at the end of June. Details in link below. Despite being at full stretch the government is still urging people to apply who have still failed to do so, and posting notifications to employers on what to do. I've not heard yet of an employer being prosecuted for illegally employing anyone, which could cost an employer c. £20,000. The government has made £22 million available to organizations to assist deprived persons to secure their rights to settlement. Yesterday's post: www.gov.uk/government/news/thousands-more-citizens-granted-status-through-settlement-schemeI was talking about the silence of the media on this individual case. I appreciate that. I was seeking to highlight that a huge amount of work is being done processing millions of applications, millions more than expected. The government issue regular updates on progress which goes unreported by the media, but if one case arises that has been mismanaged the media will be all over it like a rash.
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Post by Northy on Aug 13, 2021 15:38:34 GMT
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 13, 2021 15:48:50 GMT
No. 2 in the list of occupations showing greatest growth is a little disconcerting!
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Aug 13, 2021 16:03:25 GMT
No. 2 in the list of occupations showing greatest growth is a little disconcerting! That's a year out of date.
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 13, 2021 16:51:48 GMT
No. 2 in the list of occupations showing greatest growth is a little disconcerting! That's a year out of date. Quite right. Oooooops. Northy!!!
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Post by 4372 on Aug 14, 2021 10:51:05 GMT
Just back home from doing the weekly shop. Have managed to get four empty shelves from asda.
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Post by followyoudown on Aug 14, 2021 11:13:44 GMT
Despite brexit blah blah blah
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Post by thevoid on Aug 14, 2021 11:15:05 GMT
Just back home from doing the weekly shop. Have managed to get four empty shelves from asda. Ping There goes another rib!
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Aug 14, 2021 11:52:37 GMT
Despite brexit blah blah blah Imports from the EU up £0.5 billion in June more than double the increase in exports to the EU (up £0.2 billion). Exports to non-EU down £0.8 billion in June, imports from non-EU up £0.5 billion Trade deficit widened by £3.6 billion in Q2 despite Brexit
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Post by Eggybread on Aug 14, 2021 13:41:13 GMT
Despite brexit blah blah blah More imported goods from far off lands will explain why everything is shooting up in price, another Brexit success, another family struggles to feed its family properly.
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Post by followyoudown on Aug 14, 2021 17:25:05 GMT
Despite brexit blah blah blah Imports from the EU up £0.5 billion in June more than double the increase in exports to the EU (up £0.2 billion). Exports to non-EU down £0.8 billion in June, imports from non-EU up £0.5 billion Trade deficit widened by £3.6 billion in Q2 despite Brexit But but but exports to the EU were meant to collapse and we would be so poor we'd all be scavenging in bins or something yet it appears we are doing better and all without paying £350m per week
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Post by followyoudown on Aug 14, 2021 17:27:27 GMT
Despite brexit blah blah blah More imported goods from far off lands will explain why everything is shooting up in price, another Brexit success, another family struggles to feed its family properly. Cheer up mate it might never happen
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Post by wagsastokie on Aug 15, 2021 7:20:47 GMT
Another success of brexit
The Uk is banning the import and export of shark fins Which of course they have been unable to do whilst tied to the despotic cruel European cabal
The uk leading the way in animal welfare Whilst the Eu wallows in its self made cesspit of animal rights
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Aug 15, 2021 12:03:06 GMT
Another success of brexit The Uk is banning the import and export of shark fins Which of course they have been unable to do whilst tied to the despotic cruel European cabal The uk leading the way in animal welfare Whilst the Eu wallows in its self made cesspit of animal rights Not quite the "despotic, cruel, European cesspit cabal" you'd like to imagine... From the govt's own press release... "The Shark Trust welcomes the prohibition in trade in detached fins as the next action in a history of proactive moves by the UK Government, which supported leaving fins naturally attached as best practice years before adoption of the policy by the EU in 2013". Good news nonetheless.
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 15, 2021 12:38:29 GMT
Another success of brexit The Uk is banning the import and export of shark fins Which of course they have been unable to do whilst tied to the despotic cruel European cabal The uk leading the way in animal welfare Whilst the Eu wallows in its self made cesspit of animal rights Not quite the "despotic, cruel, European cesspit cabal" you'd like to imagine... From the govt's own press release... "The Shark Trust welcomes the prohibition in trade in detached fins as the next action in a history of proactive moves by the UK Government, which supported leaving fins naturally attached as best practice years before adoption of the policy by the EU in 2013". Good news nonetheless. Yes it is good news, genuine good news announced by the British government now that we are out of the EU. Unlike the EU policy in 2013 that you quote, which was false good news. During recent years I have repeatedly quoted examples of EU legislation that is flouted by many EU countries. The lists of the EU taking nations to court for breaking EU regulations over the decades seemed endless, Germany and France being two of the worst, whereas the UK slavishly followed regulations enforced by our native tribe of clip board "job's worths". To her credit Merkel has slowly brought Germany into line but even she sold out to the German industry corporate lobby by rushing through the EU Investment Agreement with China before she relinquished the chair of the EU Council. As for EU nations following their 2013 legislation on shark finning: www.euractiv.com/section/energy-environment/news/illegal-shark-finning-under-the-european-flag/As recently as 2020 there have been campaigns in Europe to stop the trade but the EU Commission have done nothing. They seem more interested in punishing the people of Northern Ireland for the UK leaving the EU www.seashepherdglobal.org/latest-news/citizens-initiative-ban-finning-europe/. Today although the UK has signed an agreement to progressively reduce quota of EU fishing vessels taking fish from British waters there is no control by the British government to stop pillaging. I just hope the British government can do better at stopping tha shark fin trade. www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2021/06/11/eu-fishermen-can-plunder-uk-waters-remainder-year/It doesn't stop there either: www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/mar/05/eu-accused-of-neocolonial-plundering-of-tuna-in-indian-oceanI would not call out my Europeans friends and former work colleagues who were very generous to me when I retired, but I am certainly grateful we have have left the EU.
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Post by Eggybread on Aug 15, 2021 12:49:33 GMT
More imported goods from far off lands will explain why everything is shooting up in price, another Brexit success, another family struggles to feed its family properly. Cheer up mate it might never happen You just dont want to see it do you. Yes brexiteers won (whatever that even means in the wining context). The graph you show is not a success I god willing will never be (short) of money. The issue is many people are and more so will be ,that is my concern, its called compassion and consideration for my friends and anyone else who is struggling. Which you obviously do not share.
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 15, 2021 13:32:08 GMT
Another success of brexit The Uk is banning the import and export of shark fins Which of course they have been unable to do whilst tied to the despotic cruel European cabal The uk leading the way in animal welfare Whilst the Eu wallows in its self made cesspit of animal rights Not quite the "despotic, cruel, European cesspit cabal" you'd like to imagine... From the govt's own press release... "The Shark Trust welcomes the prohibition in trade in detached fins as the next action in a history of proactive moves by the UK Government, which supported leaving fins naturally attached as best practice years before adoption of the policy by the EU in 2013". Good news nonetheless. You should read more. Or rather not be so self satisfied with anything that the EU does. Stop Finning – Stop the trade
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Post by foster on Aug 15, 2021 13:51:54 GMT
Another success of brexit The Uk is banning the import and export of shark fins Which of course they have been unable to do whilst tied to the despotic cruel European cabal The UK leading the way in animal welfare Whilst the Eu wallows in its self made cesspit of animal rights But it's OK to drag up millions (billions) of fish and other sea creatures leaving them to slowly suffocate on board a ships deck. Animal welfare where it suits an agenda I suppose. I would assume that animal cruelty is far more prevalent on other continents than Europe.
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 15, 2021 14:14:24 GMT
Another success of brexit The Uk is banning the import and export of shark fins Which of course they have been unable to do whilst tied to the despotic cruel European cabal The UK leading the way in animal welfare Whilst the Eu wallows in its self made cesspit of animal rights But it's OK to drag up millions (billions) of fish and other sea creatures leaving them to slowly suffocate on board a ships deck. Animal welfare where it suits an agenda I suppose. I would assume that animal cruelty is far more prevalent on other continents than Europe. Quite right. A start has been made on restricting bottom trawling in UK waters: www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/feb/02/big-day-for-uk-seas-as-bottom-trawling-ban-in-four-protected-areas-proposedHopefully this can be extended with action by the British public. (Remember politicians are only interested in one thing: getting your vote.) Unfortunately this petition failed to get enough support from the public: petition.parliament.uk/petitions/569153Bottom trawlers are operating in 98 per cent of the UK’s marine protected areas, designated to protect sea wildlife and habitats which can be damaged by the fishing process. Unfortunately there are few politicians who campaign to educate the public. Most seem too busy spreading lies and half truths. Unfortunately, as with global warming/climate change, the world will not wake up to the damage being done until it is too late. www.scotsman.com/news/environment/call-ban-bottom-trawling-protected-seas-3086082
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Post by foster on Aug 15, 2021 14:17:35 GMT
But it's OK to drag up millions (billions) of fish and other sea creatures leaving them to slowly suffocate on board a ships deck. Animal welfare where it suits an agenda I suppose. I would assume that animal cruelty is far more prevalent on other continents than Europe. Quite right. A start has been made on restricting bottom trawling in UK waters: www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/feb/02/big-day-for-uk-seas-as-bottom-trawling-ban-in-four-protected-areas-proposedHopefully this can be extended with action by the British public. (Remember politicians are only interested in one thing: getting your vote.) Unfortunately this petition failed to get enough support from the public: petition.parliament.uk/petitions/569153Bottom trawlers are operating in 98 per cent of the UK’s marine protected areas, designated to protect sea wildlife and habitats which can be damaged by the fishing process. Unfortunately there are few politicians who campaign to educate the public. Most seem too busy spreading lies and half truths. Unfortunately, as with global warming/climate change, the world will not wake up to the damage being done until it is too late. www.scotsman.com/news/environment/call-ban-bottom-trawling-protected-seas-3086082Whats your take on the shitty easy to navigate legislation on fox hunting. www.gov.uk/hunting/mammals'Foxes It’s illegal to hunt foxes with a pack of dogs. You can use dogs to simulate hunting, for example ‘drag’ or ‘trail’ hunting. You can use up to 2 dogs to chase (‘flush’ or ‘stalk’) foxes out of hiding if the fox is causing damage to your property or the environment. Your dogs can’t go underground to find the foxes unless they’re threatening wild or game birds kept for shooting - only one dog can go underground at any time. You must: shoot the fox quickly after it’s been found carry proof you own the land you’re shooting on or written permission from the landowner' www.historic-uk.com/CultureUK/Fox-Hunting-in-Britain/'Conversely, despite the ban, hunts have seen an increase in membership and the Masters of Foxhounds Association (MFHA) currently represents 176 active foxhound packs in England and Wales and 10 in Scotland. And whilst the suggested amendment to the Hunting Act 2004 to permit licensed hunting was rejected, despite support from the former Prime Minister Tony Blair and Lord Burns himself, many anti-hunting campaigners have complained that countless hunts have flaunted the ban and illegally continued hunting with hounds...'
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Aug 15, 2021 14:46:16 GMT
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 15, 2021 14:52:16 GMT
Whats your take on the shitty easy to navigate legislation on fox hunting. www.gov.uk/hunting/mammals'Foxes It’s illegal to hunt foxes with a pack of dogs. You can use dogs to simulate hunting, for example ‘drag’ or ‘trail’ hunting. You can use up to 2 dogs to chase (‘flush’ or ‘stalk’) foxes out of hiding if the fox is causing damage to your property or the environment. Your dogs can’t go underground to find the foxes unless they’re threatening wild or game birds kept for shooting - only one dog can go underground at any time. You must: shoot the fox quickly after it’s been found carry proof you own the land you’re shooting on or written permission from the landowner' www.historic-uk.com/CultureUK/Fox-Hunting-in-Britain/'Conversely, despite the ban, hunts have seen an increase in membership and the Masters of Foxhounds Association (MFHA) currently represents 176 active foxhound packs in England and Wales and 10 in Scotland. And whilst the suggested amendment to the Hunting Act 2004 to permit licensed hunting was rejected, despite support from the former Prime Minister Tony Blair and Lord Burns himself, many anti-hunting campaigners have complained that countless hunts have flaunted the ban and illegally continued hunting with hounds...' Another example of politicians implementing a law to win votes, but not actually delivering. My wife and I support the RSPCA who are against fox hunting. If there is anyone reading this that has doubts about fox hunting and needs convincing read this: www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/fox-hunting-hear-both-sides-1059933I can understand that there is a need to control the number of foxes but there must be humane ways of doing it. Foxes are savage creatures that will enter a chicken run and terrorise and slaughter every chicken, taking just one to eat. The people who dress up to gallop round the countryside are simply lowering themselves to the level of the fox, or worse, because they should know better.
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Post by partickpotter on Aug 15, 2021 14:57:59 GMT
Whats your take on the shitty easy to navigate legislation on fox hunting. www.gov.uk/hunting/mammals'Foxes It’s illegal to hunt foxes with a pack of dogs. You can use dogs to simulate hunting, for example ‘drag’ or ‘trail’ hunting. You can use up to 2 dogs to chase (‘flush’ or ‘stalk’) foxes out of hiding if the fox is causing damage to your property or the environment. Your dogs can’t go underground to find the foxes unless they’re threatening wild or game birds kept for shooting - only one dog can go underground at any time. You must: shoot the fox quickly after it’s been found carry proof you own the land you’re shooting on or written permission from the landowner' www.historic-uk.com/CultureUK/Fox-Hunting-in-Britain/'Conversely, despite the ban, hunts have seen an increase in membership and the Masters of Foxhounds Association (MFHA) currently represents 176 active foxhound packs in England and Wales and 10 in Scotland. And whilst the suggested amendment to the Hunting Act 2004 to permit licensed hunting was rejected, despite support from the former Prime Minister Tony Blair and Lord Burns himself, many anti-hunting campaigners have complained that countless hunts have flaunted the ban and illegally continued hunting with hounds...' Another example of politicians implementing a law to win votes, but not actually delivering. My wife and I support the RSPCA who are against fox hunting. If there is anyone reading this that has doubts about fox hunting and needs convincing read this: www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/fox-hunting-hear-both-sides-1059933I can understand that there is a need to control the number of foxes but there must be humane ways of doing it. Foxes are savage creatures that will enter a chicken run and terrorise and slaughter every chicken, taking just one to eat. The people who dress up to gallop round the countryside are simply lowering themselves to the level of the fox, or worse, because they should know better. The unspeakable in pursuit of the uneatable. As true now as it was 1893.
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Post by Eggybread on Aug 15, 2021 15:02:17 GMT
Whats your take on the shitty easy to navigate legislation on fox hunting. www.gov.uk/hunting/mammals'Foxes It’s illegal to hunt foxes with a pack of dogs. You can use dogs to simulate hunting, for example ‘drag’ or ‘trail’ hunting. You can use up to 2 dogs to chase (‘flush’ or ‘stalk’) foxes out of hiding if the fox is causing damage to your property or the environment. Your dogs can’t go underground to find the foxes unless they’re threatening wild or game birds kept for shooting - only one dog can go underground at any time. You must: shoot the fox quickly after it’s been found carry proof you own the land you’re shooting on or written permission from the landowner' www.historic-uk.com/CultureUK/Fox-Hunting-in-Britain/'Conversely, despite the ban, hunts have seen an increase in membership and the Masters of Foxhounds Association (MFHA) currently represents 176 active foxhound packs in England and Wales and 10 in Scotland. And whilst the suggested amendment to the Hunting Act 2004 to permit licensed hunting was rejected, despite support from the former Prime Minister Tony Blair and Lord Burns himself, many anti-hunting campaigners have complained that countless hunts have flaunted the ban and illegally continued hunting with hounds...' Another example of politicians implementing a law to win votes, but not actually delivering. My wife and I support the RSPCA who are against fox hunting. If there is anyone reading this that has doubts about fox hunting and needs convincing read this: www.cornwalllive.com/news/cornwall-news/fox-hunting-hear-both-sides-1059933I can understand that there is a need to control the number of foxes but there must be humane ways of doing it. Foxes are savage creatures that will enter a chicken run and terrorise and slaughter every chicken, taking just one to eat. The people who dress up to gallop round the countryside are simply lowering themselves to the level of the fox, or worse, because they should know better. I actually know some sabs and some of the stories they tell me are disgusting. I've also actually witnessed the hunters in action and they are nothing but pompous, bullying,psychopathic, butchers. They have no respect for the law in any shape or form, and they think they own the land roads and paths.
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Post by followyoudown on Aug 15, 2021 21:40:53 GMT
Cheer up mate it might never happen You just dont want to see it do you. Yes brexiteers won (whatever that even means in the wining context). The graph you show is not a success I god willing will never be (short) of money. The issue is many people are and more so will be ,that is my concern, its called compassion and consideration for my friends and anyone else who is struggling. Which you obviously do not share. I don't think you understand business more imported goods from faraway lands does not equate to increased prices because guess what companies will import from where it is the cheapest ! You think the graphs are bad ? Exports up more money for the Uk economy, imports up from the EU and non EU guess what these imports dont sit in warehouses they get sold which means more money in the uk economy. And trust me I have plenty of compassion and sympathy for your friends.........
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Post by mrcoke on Aug 15, 2021 23:20:40 GMT
Despite brexit blah blah blah Under normal conditions, anyone should take any individual monthly trade statistics with a huge pinch of salt. The government web site that releases the statistics carries such a warning and plays far more emphasis on quarterly statistics. During a world wide pandemic when different countries are at different stages in the evolution of the pandemic, monthly figures are almost meaningless. Monthly figures are subject to correction, for example the trade balance for May 2020 was reported to be £4.296 billion. This was revised downwards in September (-£625k), upwards in October (£50k), upwards in Jan (£85k), downwards in Feb (-£1.116billion), downwards in April (-£175k), downwards in July (-£115k). The latest figure for May last year is £6.037 billion. which bares no relation to the original value and adjustments subsequently made. Every other month since last May has had adjustments, upwards and downwards. The trade deficit for February this year was reported to be -£7.123 billion when first announced; it has been revised twice since and the latest value is - £504k; it will almost certainly be revised a few more times yet. Figures have exclusions, notably precious metals(e.g. gold) and stones (e.g. diamonds) Figures are subject to currency fluctuations. I would be highly suspicious of the individual monthly data quoted in the graphs above. Not only should we not take any monthly figures seriously, we should ignore the rhetoric in the media or tweets as they invariably from biased sources. When the last quarters result were reported last week I read two papers comments that morning one saying exports had surged and another saying they had slowed! The media also exaggerate their viewpoint by quoting meaningless %s and distorted histograms. The graphs in the post above would look very different if the x axis went back to pre- 2016, and the y axis went down to zero. (Reference. The data quoted above was from this source: www.ons.gov.uk/economy/nationalaccounts/balanceofpayments/datasets/uktradegoodsandservicespublicationtables ) While I'm writing this I should also point out that different countries report the same statistics differently. The EU report imports from another member country as a total figure, but when reporting imports from a none EU country they report where the goods were originally from. So when the UK exported to Germany when it was a member the total value of the goods would be reported from the UK, but today, if part of goods sold from the UK to Germany originally came from Japan (e.g. car parts) then the goods would be reported from UK and Japan. Hence the need for example to build a battery plant for Nissan. (Although Japan has a trade deal with the EU it is not a free trade deal, there are quotas and tariffs. When the UK rolled over the EU trade deal with Japan last year, Truss got improved conditions on tariffs.)
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Post by 4372 on Aug 17, 2021 22:25:09 GMT
Looks like another piece of Brexit argument is coming apart at the seams: Brexit arguments from this thread, 2017-2020:
(Sept 2017) The EU keeps the peace does it? I wonder why we and all those other countries waste money on NATO then... (Feb 2018) Nato has kept the peace and not the EU …..
(Nov 2018) In a nutshell, NATO is a treaty organisation set up for the mutual protection of its members which has helped maintain peace in Europe and much of the rest of the world since just after the second world war……
(Nov 2018) I don't feel the world is as dangerous as the media makes out (I also don't think its all sunshine and happiness). I think it's fine as it is. So is NATO.
(Dec 2018) I would prefer the military protection of NATO alliance over the E.U. any day of the week. (Jan 2019) The EU hasn’t kept the peace. NATO has Jan 2019) (April 2019) We have NATO as a peace-keeping body.
Fast forward to August 17th 2021, in the aftermath of recent events in Afghanistan (Gavin Barwell), former chief of staff to Theresa May, said it was “time to wake up and smell the coffee” that Democrats and Republicans no longer believe “the US should be the world’s policeman”. He added: “The lesson for Europeans is clear. Whoever is president, the US is unlikely to offer the same support that it used to in parts of the world where its vital interests are not involved. Europeans are going to have to develop the capability to intervene without US support. That’s not going to be cheap. And the EU and Britain are going to have to work out how to cooperate on this because we face the same threats.”
Letter in Daily Telegraph today: The withdrawal from Afghanistan is not a military defeat; it is an abject political surrender by President Biden. America is back in the malaise of isolationism, and this has implications for its leadership of the free world (if that exists any more). How is Nato to be taken seriously now? And how are we to face an ascendant China, or growing belligerence from Russia and Iran?
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Post by followyoudown on Aug 17, 2021 22:37:37 GMT
Looks like another piece of Brexit argument is coming apart at the seams: Brexit arguments from this thread, 2017-2020:(Sept 2017) The EU keeps the peace does it? I wonder why we and all those other countries waste money on NATO then... (Feb 2018) Nato has kept the peace and not the EU ….. (Nov 2018) In a nutshell, NATO is a treaty organisation set up for the mutual protection of its members which has helped maintain peace in Europe and much of the rest of the world since just after the second world war…… (Nov 2018) I don't feel the world is as dangerous as the media makes out (I also don't think its all sunshine and happiness). I think it's fine as it is. So is NATO. (Dec 2018) I would prefer the military protection of NATO alliance over the E.U. any day of the week. (Jan 2019) The EU hasn’t kept the peace. NATO has Jan 2019) (April 2019) We have NATO as a peace-keeping body. Fast forward to August 17th 2021, in the aftermath of recent events in Afghanistan(Gavin Barwell), former chief of staff to Theresa May, said it was “time to wake up and smell the coffee” that Democrats and Republicans no longer believe “the US should be the world’s policeman”. He added: “The lesson for Europeans is clear. Whoever is president, the US is unlikely to offer the same support that it used to in parts of the world where its vital interests are not involved. Europeans are going to have to develop the capability to intervene without US support. That’s not going to be cheap. And the EU and Britain are going to have to work out how to cooperate on this because we face the same threats.” Letter in Daily Telegraph today:The withdrawal from Afghanistan is not a military defeat; it is an abject political surrender by President Biden. America is back in the malaise of isolationism, and this has implications for its leadership of the free world (if that exists any more). How is Nato to be taken seriously now? And how are we to face an ascendant China, or growing belligerence from Russia and Iran? Well if Lord Gavin Barwell says it must be true, was a pretty useless housing minister lost his seat, got chief of staff to May, did such a sterling job she lost her job and he got made a Lord pretty clear he isnt exactly Nostradamos....
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Post by longdistancekiddie on Aug 17, 2021 22:51:30 GMT
Looks like another piece of Brexit argument is coming apart at the seams: Brexit arguments from this thread, 2017-2020:(Sept 2017) The EU keeps the peace does it? I wonder why we and all those other countries waste money on NATO then... (Feb 2018) Nato has kept the peace and not the EU ….. (Nov 2018) In a nutshell, NATO is a treaty organisation set up for the mutual protection of its members which has helped maintain peace in Europe and much of the rest of the world since just after the second world war…… (Nov 2018) I don't feel the world is as dangerous as the media makes out (I also don't think its all sunshine and happiness). I think it's fine as it is. So is NATO. (Dec 2018) I would prefer the military protection of NATO alliance over the E.U. any day of the week. (Jan 2019) The EU hasn’t kept the peace. NATO has Jan 2019) (April 2019) We have NATO as a peace-keeping body. Fast forward to August 17th 2021, in the aftermath of recent events in Afghanistan(Gavin Barwell), former chief of staff to Theresa May, said it was “time to wake up and smell the coffee” that Democrats and Republicans no longer believe “the US should be the world’s policeman”. He added: “The lesson for Europeans is clear. Whoever is president, the US is unlikely to offer the same support that it used to in parts of the world where its vital interests are not involved. Europeans are going to have to develop the capability to intervene without US support. That’s not going to be cheap. And the EU and Britain are going to have to work out how to cooperate on this because we face the same threats.” Letter in Daily Telegraph today:The withdrawal from Afghanistan is not a military defeat; it is an abject political surrender by President Biden. America is back in the malaise of isolationism, and this has implications for its leadership of the free world (if that exists any more). How is Nato to be taken seriously now? And how are we to face an ascendant China, or growing belligerence from Russia and Iran? Easy, stop invading and bombing other countries
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