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Post by 4372 on Jun 23, 2021 18:09:47 GMT
No there is only one Mr Coke. I think you were missing the irony in the first two paragraphs in my post. Have you checked out the link I posted. During the 2016 referendum the remainers said if we voted leave there would be a recession, etc. The reality is exports boomed in 2017 to 2019. We have then had a recession due to the pandemic, which we are now recovering from but despite the huge drop due to the pandemic the exports in 2021 are higher than they were before the referendum. Remainers said there would unemployment if we voted leave. Employment hit record levels in 2019 pre pandemic. Remainers said EU citizens would leave. There are 5.6 million applicants for citizenship in our wonderful country. As trade agreements are made over the next few years and we get rid of EU regulations, I predict the biggest boom to the UK economy since the discovery of North Sea oil and gas. The thing is those 5.6 million are all Nazis coming to live in the fascist state that is the UK post Brexit. Makes sense when you think about it. The thing is,in reality, many people had no choice but to apply to stay here for now. They have family and work here, built up over many years. There are many British people who have been forced by the situation to make similar arrangements to continue living in EU states. People who seek to remain here are not necessarily ecstatic about doing so,they may be making the best they can of a very bad situation. It is not an ideal situation for anyone.
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Post by LL Cool Dave on Jun 23, 2021 18:13:55 GMT
'I'd vote leave again as at some point it will sort itself out' That kind of misguided belief is the reason your industry is going down the swanny, mate.
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Post by mrcoke on Jun 23, 2021 18:27:27 GMT
No there is only one Mr Coke. I think you were missing the irony in the first two paragraphs in my post. Have you checked out the link I posted. During the 2016 referendum the remainers said if we voted leave there would be a recession, etc. The reality is exports boomed in 2017 to 2019. We have then had a recession due to the pandemic, which we are now recovering from but despite the huge drop due to the pandemic the exports in 2021 are higher than they were before the referendum. Remainers said there would unemployment if we voted leave. Employment hit record levels in 2019 pre pandemic. Remainers said EU citizens would leave. There are 5.6 million applicants for citizenship in our wonderful country. As trade agreements are made over the next few years and we get rid of EU regulations, I predict the biggest boom to the UK economy since the discovery of North Sea oil and gas. UK economic growth slowed from 2016-18 so the 'boom in exports' did not translate into anything more than an economy performing feebly on an historical comparison outside recessions. Remainers said there would be staff shortages . There are. You mention freedom of movement when we get the trade deal with India- surely all immigration is now based on people meeting the criteria laid down by the Government, not on where they live? Pre pandemic the UK had more people in work than ever before in our history. Pre pandemic, unemployment was the lowest for over 40 years. If that is the "economy performing feebly", more please!I remember remainers saying there would be a recession and unemployment, if we voted to leave the EU. I remember remainers saying EU citizens would leave, there are 5.6 million applicants for UK citizenship. Yes a few have left and there are reported shortage of fruit pickers and drivers, so no worries about future unemployment then? When restrictions of movement due to the pandemic are fully lifted, I expect there will be lots more applicants from all over the world to come and live and work in the UK, particularly when fruit pickers and lorry drivers wages inflate. Meanwhile unemployment is rife in southern and eastern EU states.
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Post by mrcoke on Jun 23, 2021 18:54:23 GMT
The thing is those 5.6 million are all Nazis coming to live in the fascist state that is the UK post Brexit. Makes sense when you think about it. The thing is,in reality, many people had no choice but to apply to stay here for now. They have family and work here, built up over many years. There are many British people who have been forced by the situation to make similar arrangements to continue living in EU states. People who seek to remain here are not necessarily ecstatic about doing so,they may be making the best they can of a very bad situation. It is not an ideal situation for anyone. They have a choice: work in the UK or be unemployed in the country they were born in. Your comment that they have family reminds me of a manager who worked for me who had been a manager at another works, where one day an employee from Eastern Europe came to him asking for a day off work. The employee said he realised it would be inconvenient but he needed to sort out a personal problem. The manager said it would be OK and asked what his problem was and could he help. The employee said he had to personally go to the relevant authority to sort out child allowance for his family. The manager said he was sorry he was having difficulties; he didn't realise his family were living with him. The employee said "They aren't, they are back in East Europe". I suspect that most of those that have returned to their land of birth is to be with family due to the pandemic and nothing to do with Brexit. A doctor I know returned to India to look after his elderly parents during the pandemic. The bad situation is the pandemic. Being out of the EU is ideal with me and millions of others. Stop running your country down. Most immigrants are very happy to be here. How many homosexuals are keen to get back to Hungary? This is one of the best countries in the world to live in. www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2020/12/hungary-dark-day-for-lgbti-community-as-homophobic-discriminatory-bill-and-constitutional-amendments-are-passed/
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Post by 4372 on Jun 23, 2021 22:37:29 GMT
The thing is,in reality, many people had no choice but to apply to stay here for now. They have family and work here, built up over many years. There are many British people who have been forced by the situation to make similar arrangements to continue living in EU states. People who seek to remain here are not necessarily ecstatic about doing so,they may be making the best they can of a very bad situation. It is not an ideal situation for anyone. They have a choice: work in the UK or be unemployed in the country they were born in. Your comment that they have family reminds me of a manager who worked for me who had been a manager at another works, where one day an employee from Eastern Europe came to him asking for a day off work. The employee said he realised it would be inconvenient but he needed to sort out a personal problem. The manager said it would be OK and asked what his problem was and could he help. The employee said he had to personally go to the relevant authority to sort out child allowance for his family. The manager said he was sorry he was having difficulties; he didn't realise his family were living with him. The employee said "They aren't, they are back in East Europe". I suspect that most of those that have returned to their land of birth is to be with family due to the pandemic and nothing to do with Brexit. A doctor I know returned to India to look after his elderly parents during the pandemic. The bad situation is the pandemic. Being out of the EU is ideal with me and millions of others. Stop running your country down. Most immigrants are very happy to be here. How many homosexuals are keen to get back to Hungary? This is one of the best countries in the world to live in. www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2020/12/hungary-dark-day-for-lgbti-community-as-homophobic-discriminatory-bill-and-constitutional-amendments-are-passed/That is a nasty response, characterised by irrelevant personal anecdote, and snide personal attacks. Quite clearly there was going to be a problem after Brexit,with the status of UK and EU citizens resident in each other's territories. A resolution has been found to ease the worries of the individuals concerned. I am guessing that most people who voted for Brexit are satisfied with a scheme of mutual benefit. You are suggesting that people who are working here, have homes here, have families here, may have children in schools here, have a simple choice between go and stay? And why should their lives have been disrupted because of your vote? And how on earth do you know that any such individual would be unemployed in the country they were born in?
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Post by thevoid on Jun 24, 2021 6:47:25 GMT
They have a choice: work in the UK or be unemployed in the country they were born in. Your comment that they have family reminds me of a manager who worked for me who had been a manager at another works, where one day an employee from Eastern Europe came to him asking for a day off work. The employee said he realised it would be inconvenient but he needed to sort out a personal problem. The manager said it would be OK and asked what his problem was and could he help. The employee said he had to personally go to the relevant authority to sort out child allowance for his family. The manager said he was sorry he was having difficulties; he didn't realise his family were living with him. The employee said "They aren't, they are back in East Europe". I suspect that most of those that have returned to their land of birth is to be with family due to the pandemic and nothing to do with Brexit. A doctor I know returned to India to look after his elderly parents during the pandemic. The bad situation is the pandemic. Being out of the EU is ideal with me and millions of others. Stop running your country down. Most immigrants are very happy to be here. How many homosexuals are keen to get back to Hungary? This is one of the best countries in the world to live in. www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2020/12/hungary-dark-day-for-lgbti-community-as-homophobic-discriminatory-bill-and-constitutional-amendments-are-passed/That is a nasty response, characterised by irrelevant personal anecdote, and snide personal attacks. Quite clearly there was going to be a problem after Brexit,with the status of UK and EU citizens resident in each other's territories. A resolution has been found to ease the worries of the individuals concerned. I am guessing that most people who voted for Brexit are satisfied with a scheme of mutual benefit. You are suggesting that people who are working here, have homes here, have families here, may have children in schools here, have a simple choice between go and stay? And why should their lives have been disrupted because of your vote? And how on earth do you know that any such individual would be unemployed in the country they were born in? Speaking of nasty responses, you liked a post on the other thread where someone was accused of having special needs Just saying 🙂
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Post by wagsastokie on Jun 24, 2021 7:57:14 GMT
They have a choice: work in the UK or be unemployed in the country they were born in. Your comment that they have family reminds me of a manager who worked for me who had been a manager at another works, where one day an employee from Eastern Europe came to him asking for a day off work. The employee said he realised it would be inconvenient but he needed to sort out a personal problem. The manager said it would be OK and asked what his problem was and could he help. The employee said he had to personally go to the relevant authority to sort out child allowance for his family. The manager said he was sorry he was having difficulties; he didn't realise his family were living with him. The employee said "They aren't, they are back in East Europe". I suspect that most of those that have returned to their land of birth is to be with family due to the pandemic and nothing to do with Brexit. A doctor I know returned to India to look after his elderly parents during the pandemic. The bad situation is the pandemic. Being out of the EU is ideal with me and millions of others. Stop running your country down. Most immigrants are very happy to be here. How many homosexuals are keen to get back to Hungary? This is one of the best countries in the world to live in. www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2020/12/hungary-dark-day-for-lgbti-community-as-homophobic-discriminatory-bill-and-constitutional-amendments-are-passed/That is a nasty response, characterised by irrelevant personal anecdote, and snide personal attacks. Quite clearly there was going to be a problem after Brexit,with the status of UK and EU citizens resident in each other's territories. A resolution has been found to ease the worries of the individuals concerned. I am guessing that most people who voted for Brexit are satisfied with a scheme of mutual benefit. You are suggesting that people who are working here, have homes here, have families here, may have children in schools here, have a simple choice between go and stay? And why should their lives have been disrupted because of your vote? And how on earth do you know that any such individual would be unemployed in the country they were born in? Save going round the bushes time after time It’s simple if European citizens or British subjects detest this country enough They can simply fuck off
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Post by 4372 on Jun 24, 2021 8:12:33 GMT
You do know that EU citizens living here in 2016 did not have the right to vote in the referendum, even though they paid their taxes?
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 24, 2021 8:17:34 GMT
That is a nasty response, characterised by irrelevant personal anecdote, and snide personal attacks. Quite clearly there was going to be a problem after Brexit,with the status of UK and EU citizens resident in each other's territories. A resolution has been found to ease the worries of the individuals concerned. I am guessing that most people who voted for Brexit are satisfied with a scheme of mutual benefit. You are suggesting that people who are working here, have homes here, have families here, may have children in schools here, have a simple choice between go and stay? And why should their lives have been disrupted because of your vote? And how on earth do you know that any such individual would be unemployed in the country they were born in? Speaking of nasty responses, you liked a post on the other thread where someone was accused of having special needs Just saying 🙂 Irony klaxon......
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Post by followyoudown on Jun 24, 2021 8:51:45 GMT
You do know that EU citizens living here in 2016 did not have the right to vote in the referendum, even though they paid their taxes? Visitors to a country (even if they stay for a few years) not granted same right as citizens shocker, any EU citizen who had become a UK citizen was allowed to vote.
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Post by mrcoke on Jun 24, 2021 8:59:05 GMT
They have a choice: work in the UK or be unemployed in the country they were born in. Your comment that they have family reminds me of a manager who worked for me who had been a manager at another works, where one day an employee from Eastern Europe came to him asking for a day off work. The employee said he realised it would be inconvenient but he needed to sort out a personal problem. The manager said it would be OK and asked what his problem was and could he help. The employee said he had to personally go to the relevant authority to sort out child allowance for his family. The manager said he was sorry he was having difficulties; he didn't realise his family were living with him. The employee said "They aren't, they are back in East Europe". I suspect that most of those that have returned to their land of birth is to be with family due to the pandemic and nothing to do with Brexit. A doctor I know returned to India to look after his elderly parents during the pandemic. The bad situation is the pandemic. Being out of the EU is ideal with me and millions of others. Stop running your country down. Most immigrants are very happy to be here. How many homosexuals are keen to get back to Hungary? This is one of the best countries in the world to live in. www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2020/12/hungary-dark-day-for-lgbti-community-as-homophobic-discriminatory-bill-and-constitutional-amendments-are-passed/That is a nasty response, characterised by irrelevant personal anecdote, and snide personal attacks. Quite clearly there was going to be a problem after Brexit,with the status of UK and EU citizens resident in each other's territories. A resolution has been found to ease the worries of the individuals concerned. I am guessing that most people who voted for Brexit are satisfied with a scheme of mutual benefit. You are suggesting that people who are working here, have homes here, have families here, may have children in schools here, have a simple choice between go and stay? And why should their lives have been disrupted because of your vote? And how on earth do you know that any such individual would be unemployed in the country they were born in? I'm sorry you think my response was nasty, I was merely stating some of my experience and the opinion I have drawn from those experiences. Obviously there are some people who have lost out from the UK leaving the EU, notably those who benefitted most. It was always clear there would be some downside to leaving a political union. You do not seem to respect the wishes of the British people not to be in the EU. Please don't start posting meaningless opinion polls, what matters are proper referenda and elections. Those results are what the people actually think on the day. The main reason people move to the UK is for work because of the high unemployment in their own countries, particularly the young. They made that choice. www.worldatlas.com/articles/youth-unemployment-rates-europe.html#:~:text=Which%20European%20Country%20Has%20the%20Highest%20Youth%20Unemployment,%20in%20%25%20%2028%20more%20rows%20 There are constant reports in the media about shortage of labour, but the roads are full of lorries and the hotel I have just stayed at had loads of staff, from all over the world. Of course if you move your whole family to the UK it is difficult to relocate, but why would you? Life and benefits are better in the UK, maybe not the weather. I repeat, that most people who left the UK in 2020, left because of the pandemic and to be with their relatives in Europe. Brexit (3 years late IMO) has happened and many are now stuck in the EU. The UK is no longer in the EU, and so are a number of other European countries, including some better off ones like Norway, Switzerland, Liechtenstein, and even parts of the UK that have never been in the EU like the Channel Islands, Isle of Man, etc. There are of course countries wanting to join so they are in the customs union and get the benefits of regional aid. Every immigrant I know, and I know a lot through church, are very happy to be in the UK. I admit they are mainly from Africa and Asia, not the EU. There are over a quarter of a million French people living in London, the sixth highest French populated city in the world; are they rushing back to France? The schemes of mutual benefits between the UK and the EU are what the two parties agree. The UK has had freedom of travel with Ireland since Irish independence; there is no reason why there should not be a similar arrangement between the UK and the EU, now we have left. Just as there is between the EU and Switzerland. There is absolutely no reason why mutually beneficial reciprocals arrangement that existed when the UK were in the EU could not be replicated, but I suspect it will be a long time before that happens as the EU is out to punish the UK for leaving and dissuade any other country from daring to leave. It would have been perfectly possible for the UK to remain part of the Erasmus scheme, but the EU were demanding a ridiculous amount of money from the UK to be a member and effectively subsidize it for the rest of Europe. I am very much a European and travelled widely in Europe and still correspond with people in Europe. I would be perfectly happy to be in a free trade zone with Europe and voted to remain the EEC in the 1970s. But I do not want to be ruled by Europe and want this country to be independent like Canada, Australia, etc. There are a great many continental Europeans who feel the same in France, Germany, Italy, Catalonia, etc. but they are in a minority, or not allowed to express there opinion in a referendum. You may find my opinion nasty, but I believe you simply don't like a few home truths. I also believe you are in denial when you stated in your recent post that the EU was not intent on ever closer union, when it is part of every EU treaty and the avowed intent of the Commission who have sole control over drafting legislation.
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Post by wagsastokie on Jun 24, 2021 9:04:14 GMT
You do know that EU citizens living here in 2016 did not have the right to vote in the referendum, even though they paid their taxes? And so they shouldn’t
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Post by 4372 on Jun 24, 2021 9:14:23 GMT
No problem. There is no point discussing this further with you Wagastokie.
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Post by thevoid on Jun 24, 2021 9:31:39 GMT
Speaking of nasty responses, you liked a post on the other thread where someone was accused of having special needs Just saying 🙂 Irony klaxon...... I haven't liked someone's post who mocked special needs? I'm surprised you haven't liked it yet, what with your penchant for calling people retards 😀
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Post by mrcoke on Jun 24, 2021 10:01:57 GMT
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Jun 24, 2021 10:17:05 GMT
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Post by franklin on Jun 24, 2021 10:35:19 GMT
I wonder what the issue is and the same goes for ex pats if you know you have to "apply" for a permit or visa you do it and in good time. It should be number one priority if you can't be bothered or put it off then who's faults that! Too late to moan about things get it done.
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Post by followyoudown on Jun 24, 2021 10:42:37 GMT
The sort of decision a fascist government as some believe they are would obviously take......
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Post by followyoudown on Jun 24, 2021 10:44:35 GMT
I wonder what the issue is and the same goes for ex pats if you know you have to "apply" for a permit or visa you do it and in good time. It should be number one priority if you can't be bothered or put it off then who's faults that! Too late to moan about things get it done. There is a chance with covid some will have had to go to look after relatives etc so might temporarily be out of the country, equally they also are probably giving themselves extra time to process the last minute applications.
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Post by franklin on Jun 24, 2021 10:47:54 GMT
I wonder what the issue is and the same goes for ex pats if you know you have to "apply" for a permit or visa you do it and in good time. It should be number one priority if you can't be bothered or put it off then who's faults that! Too late to moan about things get it done. There is a chance with covid some will have had to go to look after relatives etc so might temporarily be out of the country, equally they also are probably giving themselves extra time to process the last minute applications. All valid points although I'm sure given those circumstances it would be looked at sympathetically.
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Post by mrcoke on Jun 24, 2021 11:29:39 GMT
Good to see us "getting a foot in the door" with Cambodia: www.asahi.com/ajw/articles/14380035Cambodia is a small country and has human rights issues (like the biggest country we import from China) but it is part of the potentially huge ASEAN trading group. Asia overtakes Europe as the largest trading continent this year, largely due to China, Japan, and India. ASEAN includes some large population countries which are growing rapidly economically and some could be as large as Japan in years to come. We, including USA, Canada, and Australia need to bring our influence to bear to bring about human rights reforms in the area. www.usasean.org/why-asean/asean-economyEdit: Raab visited Vietnam 2 days ago: www.gov.uk/government/news/foreign-secretary-visits-vietnam-to-strengthen-bilateral-ties-and-cooperation-on-trade-and-global-challenges"Foreign Secretary also announced UK funding to support a network of women peacebuilders and mediators across the region through the ASEAN Women’s Peace Registry. The financial contribution will also help ASEAN develop its Regional Action Plan on Women, Peace and Security and support ASEAN member states, including Vietnam, to develop and implement their own National Action Plans."
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Post by BristolMick on Jun 24, 2021 13:28:01 GMT
More Brexit dividend news. Extra dividends for the shareholders that is. Rip off mobile roaming charges are coming back. Hands up who believed the mobile operators who said they wouldn't introduce them again after Brexit? www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57595913BM
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Post by followyoudown on Jun 24, 2021 13:42:11 GMT
More Brexit dividend news. Extra dividends for the shareholders that is. Rip off mobile roaming charges are coming back. Hands up who believed the mobile operators who said they wouldn't introduce them again after Brexit? www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57595913BM A whole £2 per day or £28 for a fortnight bit of a pain but compared to the costs of lateral flow tests or whatever you need to go on holiday its peanuts, I actually find it quite refreshing to leave my phone in the hotel room, one of the main reasons to go on holiday for me is to get away from people who phone you when you are on holiday, only turn it on to use the free hotel wifi.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jun 24, 2021 14:38:15 GMT
More Brexit dividend news. Extra dividends for the shareholders that is. Rip off mobile roaming charges are coming back. Hands up who believed the mobile operators who said they wouldn't introduce them again after Brexit? www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-57595913BM A whole £2 per day or £28 for a fortnight bit of a pain but compared to the costs of lateral flow tests or whatever you need to go on holiday its peanuts, I actually find it quite refreshing to leave my phone in the hotel room, one of the main reasons to go on holiday for me is to get away from people who phone you when you are on holiday, only turn it on to use the free hotel wifi. I seem to recall these charges being discussed during the referendum campaign and being lumped in with 'project fear'....hmmm. Can you imagine the reaction if a policy "the Left" had introduced resulted in these charges!
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Post by BristolMick on Jun 24, 2021 15:08:58 GMT
A whole £2 per day or £28 for a fortnight bit of a pain but compared to the costs of lateral flow tests or whatever you need to go on holiday its peanuts, I actually find it quite refreshing to leave my phone in the hotel room, one of the main reasons to go on holiday for me is to get away from people who phone you when you are on holiday, only turn it on to use the free hotel wifi. I seem to recall these charges being discussed during the referendum campaign and being lumped in with 'project fear'....hmmm. Can you imagine the reaction if a policy "the Left" had introduced resulted in these charges! Alex Salmond actually used this topic to say that the roaming charges levied by the mobile phone companies if they brought them back after Brexit was more than an individual’s apportioned net EU membership fee. Of course he was dismissed because those honest salt of the earth mobile phone companies said they’d never ‘rip off’ any one like that again even if they were allowed to do so by the UK government. Yet the people think Brexit is for their benefit! People will soon be feeling the ‘rewards’ of what they voted for if they are ever allowed to leave ‘craggy island’ again. Mobile phone rip offs. Health Insurance rip offs. Motor Insurance rip offs. No local health care rights. No automatic right of entry. 90 day max stay. No pet passports. No right to retire to the sun. All benefits lost that cost 34p per day without factoring in the extra tax take of from companies trading in a 500m person single market with strong global agreements almost everywhere else. Loads of more stuff too. Remain did really run a crap campaign didn’t they! BM
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Post by 4372 on Jun 24, 2021 22:32:27 GMT
That is a nasty response, characterised by irrelevant personal anecdote, and snide personal attacks. Quite clearly there was going to be a problem after Brexit,with the status of UK and EU citizens resident in each other's territories. A resolution has been found to ease the worries of the individuals concerned. I am guessing that most people who voted for Brexit are satisfied with a scheme of mutual benefit. You are suggesting that people who are working here, have homes here, have families here, may have children in schools here, have a simple choice between go and stay? And why should their lives have been disrupted because of your vote? And how on earth do you know that any such individual would be unemployed in the country they were born in? I'm sorry you think my response was nasty, I was merely stating some of my experience and the opinion I have drawn from those experiences. Obviously there are some people who have lost out from the UK leaving the EU, notably those who benefitted most. It was always clear there would be some downside to leaving a political union. You do not seem to respect the wishes of the British people not to be in the EU. Please don't start posting meaningless opinion polls, what matters are proper referenda and elections. Those results are what the people actually think on the day. The main reason people move to the UK is for work because of the high unemployment in their own countries, particularly the young. They made that choice. www.worldatlas.com/articles/youth-unemployment-rates-europe.html#:~:text=Which%20European%20Country%20Has%20the%20Highest%20Youth%20Unemployment,%20in%20%25%20%2028%20more%20rows%20 There are constant reports in the media about shortage of labour, but the roads are full of lorries and the hotel I have just stayed at had loads of staff, from all over the world. Of course if you move your whole family to the UK it is difficult to relocate, but why would you? Life and benefits are better in the UK, maybe not the weather. I repeat, that most people who left the UK in 2020, left because of the pandemic and to be with their relatives in Europe. Brexit (3 years late IMO) has happened and many are now stuck in the EU. The UK is no longer in the EU, and so are a number of other European countries, including some better off ones like Norway, Switzerland, Liechtenstein, and even parts of the UK that have never been in the EU like the Channel Islands, Isle of Man, etc. There are of course countries wanting to join so they are in the customs union and get the benefits of regional aid. Every immigrant I know, and I know a lot through church, are very happy to be in the UK. I admit they are mainly from Africa and Asia, not the EU. There are over a quarter of a million French people living in London, the sixth highest French populated city in the world; are they rushing back to France? The schemes of mutual benefits between the UK and the EU are what the two parties agree. The UK has had freedom of travel with Ireland since Irish independence; there is no reason why there should not be a similar arrangement between the UK and the EU, now we have left. Just as there is between the EU and Switzerland. There is absolutely no reason why mutually beneficial reciprocals arrangement that existed when the UK were in the EU could not be replicated, but I suspect it will be a long time before that happens as the EU is out to punish the UK for leaving and dissuade any other country from daring to leave. It would have been perfectly possible for the UK to remain part of the Erasmus scheme, but the EU were demanding a ridiculous amount of money from the UK to be a member and effectively subsidize it for the rest of Europe. I am very much a European and travelled widely in Europe and still correspond with people in Europe. I would be perfectly happy to be in a free trade zone with Europe and voted to remain the EEC in the 1970s. But I do not want to be ruled by Europe and want this country to be independent like Canada, Australia, etc. There are a great many continental Europeans who feel the same in France, Germany, Italy, Catalonia, etc. but they are in a minority, or not allowed to express there opinion in a referendum. You may find my opinion nasty, but I believe you simply don't like a few home truths. I also believe you are in denial when you stated in your recent post that the EU was not intent on ever closer union, when it is part of every EU treaty and the avowed intent of the Commission who have sole control over drafting legislation. The post was definitely disagreeable. I had it down as "miserable" at first, but on reflection that did not sum up accurately the feeling of disappointment your post left me with. The issue of displaced people has largely been settled, though it is not as good as the solution we had before 2016. The issue was your view, blithely stated, that EU citizens could simply choose between a life in the UK and a life in the EU. For many, that must have been a difficult decision to make. You have to accept that these people had to change their life circumstances, as a result of your vote. That is alongside the deterioration in the rights of future British generations that your vote has brought about. I read today that some Wales fans were turned away from Amsterdam and from watching the football, whereas Danish fans will be allowed in because apparently these are the rules nowadays. I have not been at home today, and have not had chance to back that one up yet. Not entirely sure that any replacement scheme will come about for a long time yet, and it will never be as good as the arrangements that you could exploit yourself when the UK was in the EU. As you say, you travelled widely in Europe... The remainder of your post, as we have said before, we are just not going to agree, and there is little point in discussing it further. As far as I am concerned, you have gone down a rabbit hole of populist propaganda. (Ever Closer Union, the idea that each EU state is not a sovereign body, the idea that the UK was willing to remain inside Erasmus). I have also travelled widely in Europe, and have never encountered the sort of anti-EU sentiment you describe and imagine. I see people at ease with the prosperity, peace and progress made possible by the co-operation between states through the EU. Instead we have disputes over sausages, and fishing rights, and the apparent re-imposition of roaming charges for UK visitors to the EU.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 24, 2021 23:32:01 GMT
all gone a bit belly up really.
Captain Hindsight
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Post by followyoudown on Jun 25, 2021 9:35:02 GMT
Surprised our resident animal standards expert hasnt mentioned this as he seemed very keen on highlighting the australian standards.
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Post by wagsastokie on Jun 25, 2021 10:09:07 GMT
I'm sorry you think my response was nasty, I was merely stating some of my experience and the opinion I have drawn from those experiences. Obviously there are some people who have lost out from the UK leaving the EU, notably those who benefitted most. It was always clear there would be some downside to leaving a political union. You do not seem to respect the wishes of the British people not to be in the EU. Please don't start posting meaningless opinion polls, what matters are proper referenda and elections. Those results are what the people actually think on the day. The main reason people move to the UK is for work because of the high unemployment in their own countries, particularly the young. They made that choice. www.worldatlas.com/articles/youth-unemployment-rates-europe.html#:~:text=Which%20European%20Country%20Has%20the%20Highest%20Youth%20Unemployment,%20in%20%25%20%2028%20more%20rows%20 There are constant reports in the media about shortage of labour, but the roads are full of lorries and the hotel I have just stayed at had loads of staff, from all over the world. Of course if you move your whole family to the UK it is difficult to relocate, but why would you? Life and benefits are better in the UK, maybe not the weather. I repeat, that most people who left the UK in 2020, left because of the pandemic and to be with their relatives in Europe. Brexit (3 years late IMO) has happened and many are now stuck in the EU. The UK is no longer in the EU, and so are a number of other European countries, including some better off ones like Norway, Switzerland, Liechtenstein, and even parts of the UK that have never been in the EU like the Channel Islands, Isle of Man, etc. There are of course countries wanting to join so they are in the customs union and get the benefits of regional aid. Every immigrant I know, and I know a lot through church, are very happy to be in the UK. I admit they are mainly from Africa and Asia, not the EU. There are over a quarter of a million French people living in London, the sixth highest French populated city in the world; are they rushing back to France? The schemes of mutual benefits between the UK and the EU are what the two parties agree. The UK has had freedom of travel with Ireland since Irish independence; there is no reason why there should not be a similar arrangement between the UK and the EU, now we have left. Just as there is between the EU and Switzerland. There is absolutely no reason why mutually beneficial reciprocals arrangement that existed when the UK were in the EU could not be replicated, but I suspect it will be a long time before that happens as the EU is out to punish the UK for leaving and dissuade any other country from daring to leave. It would have been perfectly possible for the UK to remain part of the Erasmus scheme, but the EU were demanding a ridiculous amount of money from the UK to be a member and effectively subsidize it for the rest of Europe. I am very much a European and travelled widely in Europe and still correspond with people in Europe. I would be perfectly happy to be in a free trade zone with Europe and voted to remain the EEC in the 1970s. But I do not want to be ruled by Europe and want this country to be independent like Canada, Australia, etc. There are a great many continental Europeans who feel the same in France, Germany, Italy, Catalonia, etc. but they are in a minority, or not allowed to express there opinion in a referendum. You may find my opinion nasty, but I believe you simply don't like a few home truths. I also believe you are in denial when you stated in your recent post that the EU was not intent on ever closer union, when it is part of every EU treaty and the avowed intent of the Commission who have sole control over drafting legislation. The post was definitely disagreeable. I had it down as "miserable" at first, but on reflection that did not sum up accurately the feeling of disappointment your post left me with. The issue of displaced people has largely been settled, though it is not as good as the solution we had before 2016. The issue was your view, blithely stated, that EU citizens could simply choose between a life in the UK and a life in the EU. For many, that must have been a difficult decision to make. You have to accept that these people had to change their life circumstances, as a result of your vote. That is alongside the deterioration in the rights of future British generations that your vote has brought about. I read today that some Wales fans were turned away from Amsterdam and from watching the football, whereas Danish fans will be allowed in because apparently these are the rules nowadays. I have not been at home today, and have not had chance to back that one up yet. Not entirely sure that any replacement scheme will come about for a long time yet, and it will never be as good as the arrangements that you could exploit yourself when the UK was in the EU. As you say, you travelled widely in Europe... The remainder of your post, as we have said before, we are just not going to agree, and there is little point in discussing it further. As far as I am concerned, you have gone down a rabbit hole of populist propaganda. (Ever Closer Union, the idea that each EU state is not a sovereign body, the idea that the UK was willing to remain inside Erasmus). I have also travelled widely in Europe, and have never encountered the sort of anti-EU sentiment you describe and imagine. I see people at ease with the prosperity, peace and progress made possible by the co-operation between states through the EU. Instead we have disputes over sausages, and fishing rights, and the apparent re-imposition of roaming charges for UK visitors to the EU. If the European Union isn’t a sovereign state or has aspirations there of Why do they have ambassadors and embassies around the world
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Post by wagsastokie on Jun 25, 2021 10:13:55 GMT
Surprised our resident animal standards expert hasnt mentioned this as he seemed very keen on highlighting the australian standards. Well it hasn’t taken them long to lower standards once were no longer there to keep them in check Maybe it’s time to to ban European meat products until they stop the practice
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