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Post by 4372 on Jan 29, 2021 17:14:18 GMT
" This thread should be mothballed and revisited in 5 or 10yrs time then we'll know how its worked out"
What a strange response. You could, of course, just choose to walk away from the thread. Almost like some people don't want to know about 500 job losses at GKN related to Brexit, or the difficulties hauliers and traders are having as a result of Brexit.
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Post by franklin on Jan 29, 2021 17:20:24 GMT
At least I can work the quote function correctly 😁
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Post by Kilo on Jan 29, 2021 17:45:56 GMT
" This thread should be mothballed and revisited in 5 or 10yrs time then we'll know how its worked out" What a strange response. You could, of course, just choose to walk away from the thread. Almost like some people don't want to know about 500 job losses at GKN related to Brexit, or the difficulties hauliers and traders are having as a result of Brexit. You quoted the company stating "a competitive global market" as the reason and a professor at Brum uni (who doesn't work for GKN) who stated Brexit 'might' also be a factor which you've now converted as fact that it's related to Brexit. This tactic has been going on for 1300 pages and yet you're still no nearer to changing the minds of those who voted to not be ruled by people they've never heard of in a foreign capital.
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Post by crapslinger on Jan 29, 2021 17:52:51 GMT
" This thread should be mothballed and revisited in 5 or 10yrs time then we'll know how its worked out" What a strange response. You could, of course, just choose to walk away from the thread. Almost like some people don't want to know about 500 job losses at GKN related to Brexit, or the difficulties hauliers and traders are having as a result of Brexit. You quoted the company stating "a competitive global market" as the reason and a professor at Brum uni (who doesn't work for GKN) who stated Brexit 'might' also be a factor which you've now converted as fact that it's related to Brexit. This tactic has been going on for 1300 pages and yet you're still no nearer to changing the minds of those who voted to not be ruled by people they've never heard of in a foreign capital. Four and a half years of bitch moaning because they didn't get their own way ! it ain't going to change until they have the grace to accept they lost and move on democracy was finally carried out Brexit has been executed these moaning fcukers will get another chance to change the result if things don't pan out in forty years
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Post by followyoudown on Jan 29, 2021 18:04:23 GMT
Extraordinary behaviour from the EU introducing a hard border between ROI and NI for vaccines that will never be moved there anyway, they are having a Jon Walters v Chelsea game today.
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Post by followyoudown on Jan 29, 2021 18:23:33 GMT
EU clearly people of their word
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Post by partickpotter on Jan 29, 2021 18:44:36 GMT
Extraordinary behaviour from the EU introducing a hard border between ROI and NI for vaccines that will never be moved there anyway, they are having a Jon Walters v Chelsea game today. Worth also noting that the EU approved the AZ vaccine exactly 1 month after the UK did to the same level ie anyone over 18 with the second doe delivered anytime between 4 and 12 weeks after the first. One month - to reach the same result. The EU has fucked up monumentally.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jan 29, 2021 18:45:10 GMT
Oh well, wouldn't have even been an issue five years ago, but never mind!
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jan 29, 2021 18:46:09 GMT
Oh well, wouldn't have even been an issue five years ago, but never mind!
Lots of self inflicted shit to sort out now though!
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Post by 4372 on Jan 29, 2021 18:55:59 GMT
You quoted the company stating "a competitive global market" as the reason and a professor at Brum uni (who doesn't work for GKN) who stated Brexit 'might' also be a factor which you've now converted as fact that it's related to Brexit.
This tactic has been going on for 1300 pages and yet you're still no nearer to changing the minds of those who voted to not be ruled by people they've never heard of in a foreign capital.
I am not about to change anybody's mind, nor are you (or anybody else) changing my mind. This country made a historic error in 2016, it's not surprising that some people now choose to put their hands over their ears and not listen to any problems.
I am sure you know the calibre of David Bailey, even if on this issue it suits your purpose to denigrate him. Numerous times on here since 2016 people have pointed out failures connected with Brexit, numerous times they are told: "Ah, that's nothing to do with Brexit"... This issue, and the trading difficulties some companies are having, are clearly Brexit related. Not my problem if you can't see that.
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Jan 29, 2021 18:59:35 GMT
Oh well, wouldn't have even been an issue five years ago, but never mind! You're correct for once. Five years ago we'd have been in the EU & therefore had the same pitiful vaccine rollout the EU has today.
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Post by followyoudown on Jan 29, 2021 19:01:44 GMT
Extraordinary behaviour from the EU introducing a hard border between ROI and NI for vaccines that will never be moved there anyway, they are having a Jon Walters v Chelsea game today. Worth also noting that the EU approved the AZ vaccine exactly 1 month after the UK did to the same level ie anyone over 18 with the second doe delivered anytime between 4 and 12 weeks after the first. One month - to reach the same result. The EU has fucked up monumentally. Yes they have no legal case or they would not be squealing so much, quite cynical they went after the only supplier selling at not for profit and tried to rubbish its reputation. Arlene is fuming now They really have started a shitshow and all the time the uk government just says our supply of vaccines wont be interrupted and leave it at that, quite unprecedented managing not to put our feet in our mouths over this.
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Post by 4372 on Jan 29, 2021 19:15:02 GMT
Oh well, wouldn't have even been an issue five years ago, but never mind! You're correct for once. Five years ago we'd have been in the EU & therefore had the same pitiful vaccine rollout the EU has today. You do know that any state of the EU is free and always has been free to secure it's own vaccine supply? Or are you just ignorant?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 29, 2021 19:18:55 GMT
Worth also noting that the EU approved the AZ vaccine exactly 1 month after the UK did to the same level ie anyone over 18 with the second doe delivered anytime between 4 and 12 weeks after the first. One month - to reach the same result. The EU has fucked up monumentally. Yes they have no legal case or they would not be squealing so much, quite cynical they went after the only supplier selling at not for profit and tried to rubbish its reputation. Arlene is fuming now They really have started a shitshow and all the time the uk government just says our supply of vaccines wont be interrupted and leave it at that, quite unprecedented managing not to put our feet in our mouths over this. I'm beginning to think that Arlene Foster would get a lot of support as the Prime minister of the UK.......and yes I am aware of the accompanying issues surrounding her. At least she is direct, clear and has convictions ( ok so was Hitler but it all depends upon what the principles, goals and beliefs are)
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Post by franklin on Jan 29, 2021 19:22:17 GMT
Worth also noting that the EU approved the AZ vaccine exactly 1 month after the UK did to the same level ie anyone over 18 with the second doe delivered anytime between 4 and 12 weeks after the first. One month - to reach the same result. The EU has fucked up monumentally. Yes they have no legal case or they would not be squealing so much, quite cynical they went after the only supplier selling at not for profit and tried to rubbish its reputation. Arlene is fuming now They really have started a shitshow and all the time the uk government just says our supply of vaccines wont be interrupted and leave it at that, quite unprecedented managing not to put our feet in our mouths over this. I can see a NO deal in the near future after this. Perfect for the UK to just say WTO it is thanks....
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Post by crapslinger on Jan 29, 2021 19:28:58 GMT
You're correct for once. Five years ago we'd have been in the EU & therefore had the same pitiful vaccine rollout the EU has today. You do know that any state of the EU is free and always has been free to secure it's own vaccine supply? Or are you just ignorant? That is as maybe but they don't appear to be very happy with Hungary :
Brussels warned it may limit supplies to Britain - ordered months ago - in a tit-for-tat move over short supplies of the UK’s AstraZeneca version.
And mounting frustration among member states even sparked calls yesterday for Belgium itself to go-it-alone like Hungary.
Flemish daily Het Nieuwsbald said yesterday: "Should we follow Hungary's example? Should we call Putin?"
The paper added that - unlike Europe - Russia seemed to have enough vaccine to spare.
From RT: 08/01/2021
The European Commission’s president has warned EU member countries against ordering Covid-19 vaccines in side deals, saying it undermines the bloc’s own efforts to tackle the virus.
Speaking on Friday, European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen said that the EU had ordered more than enough doses for everyone in the EU, as Brussels announced its purchase of another 300 million doses of the Pfizer jab.
Von der Leyen took the opportunity to warn member states against making their own side deals with vaccine producers.
“The only framework we are negotiating in is as 27. We do this together, and no member state on this legal binding basis is allowed to negotiate in parallel or to have a contract in parallel,” von der Leyen told reporters in Brussels.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Jan 29, 2021 19:29:35 GMT
If AZ are selling at cost (and having fully read the [redacted] agreement they appear to be so [sec 9.1]) why take all this shit and not just frustrated the agreenent under s12.2(a)* and offer it to nations who would value it, eg Brazil, African nations etc?
*In the event that AstraZeneca abandons the development, manufacturing and other efforts hereunder (whether as a result of its determination that the Vaccine cannot be safely or efficaciously developed, manufactured, distributed, or administered or the determination that regulatory approvals for the Vaccine cannot or will not be obtained in a timely manner), AstraZeneca shall notify the Commission of such abandonment and the reasons justifying it and (i) the Commission will have the right to terminate this Agreement [redacted] prior written notice to AstraZeneca, and (ii) AstraZeneca will have the right to terminate this Agreement [redacted] prior written notice to the Commission.
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Post by franklin on Jan 29, 2021 19:41:53 GMT
If AZ are selling at cost (and having fully read the [redacted] agreement they appear to be so [sec 9.1]) why take all this shit and not just frustrated the agreenent under s12.2(a)* and offer it to nations who would value it, eg Brazil, African nations etc? *In the event that AstraZeneca abandons the development, manufacturing and other efforts hereunder (whether as a result of its determination that the Vaccine cannot be safely or efficaciously developed, manufactured, distributed, or administered or the determination that regulatory approvals for the Vaccine cannot or will not be obtained in a timely manner), AstraZeneca shall notify the Commission of such abandonment and the reasons justifying it and (i) the Commission will have the right to terminate this Agreement [redacted] prior written notice to AstraZeneca, and (ii) AstraZeneca will have the right to terminate this Agreement [redacted] prior written notice to the Commission.Thats actually an interesting point i just wonder what damage it would do if they did tell the EU they were abandoning the contract.
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Post by partickpotter on Jan 29, 2021 19:55:12 GMT
Worth also noting that the EU approved the AZ vaccine exactly 1 month after the UK did to the same level ie anyone over 18 with the second doe delivered anytime between 4 and 12 weeks after the first. One month - to reach the same result. The EU has fucked up monumentally. Yes they have no legal case or they would not be squealing so much, quite cynical they went after the only supplier selling at not for profit and tried to rubbish its reputation. Arlene is fuming now They really have started a shitshow and all the time the uk government just says our supply of vaccines wont be interrupted and leave it at that, quite unprecedented managing not to put our feet in our mouths over this. I think congratulations are in order for the EU. They’ve achieved something incredibly rare in the history of politics in Norther Ireland... they have united the DUP and Sinn Fein.
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Post by followyoudown on Jan 29, 2021 19:55:45 GMT
If AZ are selling at cost (and having fully read the [redacted] agreement they appear to be so [sec 9.1]) why take all this shit and not just frustrated the agreenent under s12.2(a)* and offer it to nations who would value it, eg Brazil, African nations etc? *In the event that AstraZeneca abandons the development, manufacturing and other efforts hereunder (whether as a result of its determination that the Vaccine cannot be safely or efficaciously developed, manufactured, distributed, or administered or the determination that regulatory approvals for the Vaccine cannot or will not be obtained in a timely manner), AstraZeneca shall notify the Commission of such abandonment and the reasons justifying it and (i) the Commission will have the right to terminate this Agreement [redacted] prior written notice to AstraZeneca, and (ii) AstraZeneca will have the right to terminate this Agreement [redacted] prior written notice to the Commission.Thats actually an interesting point i just wonder what damage it would do if they did tell the EU they were abandoning the contract. The EU are trying to say they developed the vaccine and keep referring to allocating (not paid or given but allocated) €336m yet this was just to set up the distribution and factory in the EU, there are delays there just as there was in the uk but they demand uk factory output not trying that with pfizer are they. Honestly once we get any spare I'd make a big point of distributing it ourselves and give the irish, polish, swedish, portugese and dutch the extras.
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Post by Kilo on Jan 29, 2021 19:57:10 GMT
I am not about to change anybody's mind, nor are you (or anybody else) changing my mind. This country made a historic error in 2016, it's not surprising that some people now choose to put their hands over their ears and not listen to any problems. I am sure you know the calibre of David Bailey, even if on this issue it suits your purpose to denigrate him. Numerous times on here since 2016 people have pointed out failures connected with Brexit, numerous times they are told: "Ah, that's nothing to do with Brexit"... This issue, and the trading difficulties some companies are having, are clearly Brexit related. Not my problem if you can't see that. 1. I wasn't trying to change your mind - I know it's a pointless excercise. Why would you change the story if you weren't trying to change others. 2. Where did I denigrate him? I pointed out he doesn't work for GKN - at worst I suggested that GKN might know more about their own company than he does. I made no criticism of him, fairly or unfairly.
It's your opinion that it was an historical error but again you state it as fact.
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Post by followyoudown on Jan 29, 2021 19:58:00 GMT
Yes they have no legal case or they would not be squealing so much, quite cynical they went after the only supplier selling at not for profit and tried to rubbish its reputation. Arlene is fuming now They really have started a shitshow and all the time the uk government just says our supply of vaccines wont be interrupted and leave it at that, quite unprecedented managing not to put our feet in our mouths over this. I can see a NO deal in the near future after this. Perfect for the UK to just say WTO it is thanks.... By singling out the uk for a ban I think the EU might already have broken wto terms nevermind activiting the NI protocol without even calling the irish, someones getting sacked in the morning.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 29, 2021 20:03:25 GMT
You're correct for once. Five years ago we'd have been in the EU & therefore had the same pitiful vaccine rollout the EU has today. You do know that any state of the EU is free and always has been free to secure it's own vaccine supply? Or are you just ignorant? Why use the word " state".....is that the same as " country "? Is the UK a state? Or Germany . Or Italy. Or Greece. The precise use of language is important in the EU project. It is good to know that they are allowed to be free though.
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Post by franklin on Jan 29, 2021 20:04:19 GMT
I don't know what I do know is I voted the way I wanted not because I was tricked. tbh mate, I'm a little surprised by how you voted since you have a son living in Germany and seem to like the country. Then again, you're pretty old so I shouldn't really be surprised Note: I'm joking about the age thing before anyone starts accusing me of stereotyping. My bad mate my Birthday is on Sunday not Monday maybe I'm older than I realise 😅
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Post by foster on Jan 29, 2021 20:10:47 GMT
tbh mate, I'm a little surprised by how you voted since you have a son living in Germany and seem to like the country. Then again, you're pretty old so I shouldn't really be surprised Note: I'm joking about the age thing before anyone starts accusing me of stereotyping. My bad mate my Birthday is on Sunday not Monday maybe I'm older than I realise 😅 You never told me your birthday was on Monday mate. You said the 31st, which is a Sunday yes.
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Post by franklin on Jan 29, 2021 20:14:41 GMT
My bad mate my Birthday is on Sunday not Monday maybe I'm older than I realise 😅 You never told me your birthday was on Monday mate. You said the 31st, which is a Sunday yes. Oh I did you missed it, seems we're both a bit senile 🤷♂️
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Post by foster on Jan 29, 2021 20:15:04 GMT
Thats actually an interesting point i just wonder what damage it would do if they did tell the EU they were abandoning the contract. The EU are trying to say they developed the vaccine and keep referring to allocating (not paid or given but allocated) €336m yet this was just to set up the distribution and factory in the EU, there are delays there just as there was in the uk but they demand uk factory output not trying that with pfizer are they. Honestly once we get any spare I'd make a big point of distributing it ourselves and give the irish, polish, swedish, portugese and dutch the extras. How very charitable of you to play with peoples lives like that. Why don't you just sell the extra stock and buy some passed-date food for the school kids you don't mind starving. What an idiot.
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Post by foster on Jan 29, 2021 20:20:01 GMT
You never told me your birthday was on Monday mate. You said the 31st, which is a Sunday yes. Oh I did you missed it, seems we're both a bit senile 🤷♂️ Made you look.
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Post by foster on Jan 29, 2021 20:31:51 GMT
If AZ are selling at cost (and having fully read the [redacted] agreement they appear to be so [sec 9.1]) why take all this shit and not just frustrated the agreenent under s12.2(a)* and offer it to nations who would value it, eg Brazil, African nations etc? *In the event that AstraZeneca abandons the development, manufacturing and other efforts hereunder (whether as a result of its determination that the Vaccine cannot be safely or efficaciously developed, manufactured, distributed, or administered or the determination that regulatory approvals for the Vaccine cannot or will not be obtained in a timely manner), AstraZeneca shall notify the Commission of such abandonment and the reasons justifying it and (i) the Commission will have the right to terminate this Agreement [redacted] prior written notice to AstraZeneca, and (ii) AstraZeneca will have the right to terminate this Agreement [redacted] prior written notice to the Commission.Thats actually an interesting point i just wonder what damage it would do if they did tell the EU they were abandoning the contract. I would imagine the EU would order from another supplier and make a point of punishing AZ for the trouble. They already ordered 3x as much Pfizer vaccine as they did AZ anyway, and there are a number of other vaccines in the pipeline. Personally I think it's getting blown out of proportion with too much combative language as people try not to lose face. In a couple of weeks this will all have blown over imo.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Jan 29, 2021 20:34:10 GMT
Thats actually an interesting point i just wonder what damage it would do if they did tell the EU they were abandoning the contract. The EU are trying to say they developed the vaccine and keep referring to allocating (not paid or given but allocated) €336m yet this was just to set up the distribution and factory in the EU, there are delays there just as there was in the uk but they demand uk factory output not trying that with pfizer are they. Honestly once we get any spare I'd make a big point of distributing it ourselves and give the irish, polish, swedish, portugese and dutch the extras. The problem here FYD is that everything is driven by the Effective Date eg (from the agreement): 7.2. Initial Funding. In partial consideration of the Vaccine Dose purchase rights granted by AstraZeneca to the Commission acting on behalf and in the name of the Participating Member States hereunder, the Commission shall pay to AstraZeneca a fixed amount equal to 336 million Euros, as an estimate of the Upfront Costs as set forth in Schedule A (the “Initial Funding”) as follows:
(a) The Commission shall pay to AstraZeneca two-thirds of the Initial Funding (first Installment) within five (5) working days of the Effective Date
But, 7.1 says The Commission and the Participating Member States shall provide the Funding in an amount equal to the estimated Cost of Goods which at the Effective Date is estimated to be [REDACTED] for the Initial Europe Doses.
So with the Effective Date redacted the document is about as much use as a sun dial in a coal mine and is typical EU political window dressing. Ursula Von Der Leyen and her cohorts of incompetents are trying to cover their arses and keep their jobs imo.
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