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Post by maxplonk on Jan 19, 2021 12:27:05 GMT
You don't seem to have read the whole of the article. I was referring to remainers on this MB.The you don't seem to have read the whole MB.
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Post by foster on Jan 19, 2021 12:28:49 GMT
You don't seem to have read the whole of the article. I was referring to remainers on this MB.The article is a childish rant by someone who lost the argument about EU membership. Obviously there are downsides to leaving, what would ever have been the point of being a member.
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Post by mrcoke on Jan 19, 2021 12:55:34 GMT
An puerile article written by a bitter loser. We are 19 days into freedom from EU rule, see where we are in 19 weeks, 19 months, and 19 years. All the Remainers talk about is fish, the same people who said it was an insignificant part of the UK economy a few months ago. The problems will be resolved in time, when people have taken their "silly hats" off and realise it is to the mutual benefit of all parties to sort it out sensibly. Yes, all bad parts of brexit should just be ignored! Why? The article talks about a lot more than fish. Brexit has been bad, so far. We cannot judge 19 months time yet. We can only judge what has happened so far. Brexit is a success. We are free of government by the EU on issues such as trade agreements, immigration laws, regional aid, tax policy, aid to farming, industry, sports, and the arts, etc., set our own competition rules, human rights, environment and food standards, health and safety standards, equality standards, employment law, and those other matters that have been dictated by the EU in the past. Obviously it will take years to put things in place. Then there are future issues that a united states of EU will decide such as foreign policy. We are no longer subject to the European Court of Justice We are no longer a member of a corrupt organization that is dominated by large corporations. We have our own government which we can get rid of and change to whatever the British people decide. I am not ignoring the difficulties of leaving. I fully expected it will take a long time to disentangle ourselves and get in line with all the red tape and rules of the customs barrier the EU has set up with the rest of the world. I fully expect some people will be deliberately awkward with the new situation. I also expect the EU to want to punish the UK, but to show just how malevolent they are see this: www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-jersey-55567451The Channel Islands are not part of the UK and have never been in the EU, but the EU (in this case France) are being as awkward as possible. Now they are bullying little Jersey. It just goes to show what a petty organization the EU is, and what despicable people they are. Everything that has happened since the people of this country voted to leave the EU in 2016 has made me more certain that it was the correct decision to leave such a rotten corrupt organization.
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Post by oggyoggy on Jan 19, 2021 13:17:41 GMT
Yes, all bad parts of brexit should just be ignored! Why? The article talks about a lot more than fish. Brexit has been bad, so far. We cannot judge 19 months time yet. We can only judge what has happened so far. Brexit is a success. We are free of government by the EU on issues such as trade agreements, immigration laws, regional aid, tax policy, aid to farming, industry, sports, and the arts, etc., set our own competition rules, human rights, environment and food standards, health and safety standards, equality standards, employment law, and those other matters that have been dictated by the EU in the past. Obviously it will take years to put things in place. Then there are future issues that a united states of EU will decide such as foreign policy. We are no longer subject to the European Court of Justice We are no longer a member of a corrupt organization that is dominated by large corporations. We have our own government which we can get rid of and change to whatever the British people decide. I am not ignoring the difficulties of leaving. I fully expected it will take a long time to disentangle ourselves and get in line with all the red tape and rules of the customs barrier the EU has set up with the rest of the world. I fully expect some people will be deliberately awkward with the new situation. I also expect the EU to want to punish the UK, but to show just how malevolent they are see this: www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-jersey-55567451The Channel Islands are not part of the UK and have never been in the EU, but the EU (in this case France) are being as awkward as possible. Now they are bullying little Jersey. It just goes to show what a petty organization the EU is, and what despicable people they are. Everything that has happened since the people of this country voted to leave the EU in 2016 has made me more certain that it was the correct decision to leave such a rotten corrupt organization. We have spent more than our entire EU budget contributions put together during membership administering leaving. Imagine if that had been spent on public services, nurses, hospitals, schools etc. We have divided the nation over an issue most still don’t understand and most didn’t really care about a year before the referendum. We were free to decide the vast majority of the laws and rules that govern the points you raised whilst being a member of the EU. What are these human rights laws you say we are now free from out of interest!? What we have done is made trade harder with our closest and biggest trading partners, and within our own nation, damaged our reputation and standing in the world and made it all the more likely the UK breaks up. And for what? More sovereignty (as long as we don’t deviate much from EU rules)?
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Post by foster on Jan 19, 2021 13:54:38 GMT
Brexit is a success. We are free of government by the EU on issues such as trade agreements, immigration laws, regional aid, tax policy, aid to farming, industry, sports, and the arts, etc., set our own competition rules, human rights, environment and food standards, health and safety standards, equality standards, employment law, and those other matters that have been dictated by the EU in the past. Obviously it will take years to put things in place. Then there are future issues that a united states of EU will decide such as foreign policy. We are no longer subject to the European Court of Justice We are no longer a member of a corrupt organization that is dominated by large corporations. We have our own government which we can get rid of and change to whatever the British people decide. I am not ignoring the difficulties of leaving. I fully expected it will take a long time to disentangle ourselves and get in line with all the red tape and rules of the customs barrier the EU has set up with the rest of the world. I fully expect some people will be deliberately awkward with the new situation. I also expect the EU to want to punish the UK, but to show just how malevolent they are see this: www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-jersey-55567451The Channel Islands are not part of the UK and have never been in the EU, but the EU (in this case France) are being as awkward as possible. Now they are bullying little Jersey. It just goes to show what a petty organization the EU is, and what despicable people they are. Everything that has happened since the people of this country voted to leave the EU in 2016 has made me more certain that it was the correct decision to leave such a rotten corrupt organization. We have spent more than our entire EU budget contributions put together during membership administering leaving. Imagine if that had been spent on public services, nurses, hospitals, schools etc. We have divided the nation over an issue most still don’t understand and most didn’t really care about a year before the referendum. We were free to decide the vast majority of the laws and rules that govern the points you raised whilst being a member of the EU. What are these human rights laws you say we are now free from out of interest!? What we have done is made trade harder with our closest and biggest trading partners, and within our own nation, damaged our reputation and standing in the world and made it all the more likely the UK breaks up. And for what? More sovereignty (as long as we don’t deviate much from EU rules)? In one post he makes a big deal about how it's too early to judge Brexit, then in his next post he contradicts himself and claims Brexit is a success. Deluded.
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Post by mrcoke on Jan 19, 2021 13:59:52 GMT
We have spent more than our entire EU budget contributions put together during membership administering leaving. Imagine if that had been spent on public services, nurses, hospitals, schools etc. We have divided the nation over an issue most still don’t understand and most didn’t really care about a year before the referendum. We were free to decide the vast majority of the laws and rules that govern the points you raised whilst being a member of the EU. What are these human rights laws you say we are now free from out of interest!? What we have done is made trade harder with our closest and biggest trading partners, and within our own nation, damaged our reputation and standing in the world and made it all the more likely the UK breaks up. And for what? More sovereignty (as long as we don’t deviate much from EU rules)? In one post he makes a big deal about how it's too early to judge Brexit, then in his next post he contradicts himself and claims Brexit is a success. Deluded. On the question of economic benefits it is too soon to judge. On the questions of sovereignty , democracy, and justice the UK is free of the EU, which is my main reason for leaving.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 19, 2021 14:13:19 GMT
In one post he makes a big deal about how it's too early to judge Brexit, then in his next post he contradicts himself and claims Brexit is a success. Deluded. On the question of economic benefits it is too soon to judge. On the questions of sovereignty , democracy, and justice the UK is free of the EU, which is my main reason for leaving. So hooray for sovereignty and all that, but out of interest which laws and regulations specifically under the EU were holding us back so badly and preventing us from fulfilling our true potential as a country? What can we now do that we couldn't before which is an improvement?
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Post by foster on Jan 19, 2021 14:16:36 GMT
In one post he makes a big deal about how it's too early to judge Brexit, then in his next post he contradicts himself and claims Brexit is a success. Deluded. On the question of economic benefits it is too soon to judge. On the questions of sovereignty , democracy, and justice the UK is free of the EU, which is my main reason for leaving. Hysterically repeating the same verbiage about the apparent escape from tyranny and newfound sovereignty, democracy and justice isn't going to help UK poverty, or feed school kids, or improve public sector services, or get more police on the streets or help with sustainability. In fact, when it comes to real priorities and real people, those words amount to nothing more than meaningless intangible guff. I don't see how anything can be considered a success if at present it has resulted in having a predominantly detrimental effect.
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Post by mrcoke on Jan 19, 2021 14:21:20 GMT
Brexit is a success. We are free of government by the EU on issues such as trade agreements, immigration laws, regional aid, tax policy, aid to farming, industry, sports, and the arts, etc., set our own competition rules, human rights, environment and food standards, health and safety standards, equality standards, employment law, and those other matters that have been dictated by the EU in the past. Obviously it will take years to put things in place. Then there are future issues that a united states of EU will decide such as foreign policy. We are no longer subject to the European Court of Justice We are no longer a member of a corrupt organization that is dominated by large corporations. We have our own government which we can get rid of and change to whatever the British people decide. I am not ignoring the difficulties of leaving. I fully expected it will take a long time to disentangle ourselves and get in line with all the red tape and rules of the customs barrier the EU has set up with the rest of the world. I fully expect some people will be deliberately awkward with the new situation. I also expect the EU to want to punish the UK, but to show just how malevolent they are see this: www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-jersey-55567451The Channel Islands are not part of the UK and have never been in the EU, but the EU (in this case France) are being as awkward as possible. Now they are bullying little Jersey. It just goes to show what a petty organization the EU is, and what despicable people they are. Everything that has happened since the people of this country voted to leave the EU in 2016 has made me more certain that it was the correct decision to leave such a rotten corrupt organization. We have spent more than our entire EU budget contributions put together during membership administering leaving. Imagine if that had been spent on public services, nurses, hospitals, schools etc. We have divided the nation over an issue most still don’t understand and most didn’t really care about a year before the referendum. We were free to decide the vast majority of the laws and rules that govern the points you raised whilst being a member of the EU. What are these human rights laws you say we are now free from out of interest!? What we have done is made trade harder with our closest and biggest trading partners, and within our own nation, damaged our reputation and standing in the world and made it all the more likely the UK breaks up. And for what? More sovereignty (as long as we don’t deviate much from EU rules)? The cost of EU membership was £8 to 9 billion every year. Do you have the cost of administering leaving? I can find: www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/summary-costing-brexitWe were subject to EU legislation on the topics I mentioned. In the case of human rights the ECJ did rule on prisoners' right to vote in EU elections, which the EU constitution requires universal suffrage. But typically it did not rule against a case in France and fudged a compromise. The UK offered to let a 100 prisoners vote and that was accepted. All I can say they have afunny idea of justice and human rights. Either prisoners should or shouldn't be allowed to vote, we all probably have an opinion on which is right, but to fudge a compromise is not my idea of justice. We can now make it easier to trade with the RoW in future, where most of our trade is and is growing 2 to 3 times faster than with the EU. The EU is now no longer making rules on our majority of trade with the RoW as they were before. We can deviate from EU rules and we are not subject to ECJ adjudication. The immediate problems of leaving will be overcome. If the UK were to break up England would not have to keep subsidising Scotland and Northern Ireland. I' m not against Scottish independance or a united Ireland, if that is what they want. I believe in democracy. Just accept we have left, and we are never going back.
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Post by mrcoke on Jan 19, 2021 14:28:09 GMT
On the question of economic benefits it is too soon to judge. On the questions of sovereignty , democracy, and justice the UK is free of the EU, which is my main reason for leaving. So hooray for sovereignty and all that, but out of interest which laws and regulations specifically under the EU were holding us back so badly and preventing us from fulfilling our true potential as a country? What can we now do that we couldn't before which is an improvement? I refer you to my posts on October 24th last year. Edit: page 1233
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Post by foster on Jan 19, 2021 14:33:28 GMT
We have spent more than our entire EU budget contributions put together during membership administering leaving. Imagine if that had been spent on public services, nurses, hospitals, schools etc. We have divided the nation over an issue most still don’t understand and most didn’t really care about a year before the referendum. We were free to decide the vast majority of the laws and rules that govern the points you raised whilst being a member of the EU. What are these human rights laws you say we are now free from out of interest!? What we have done is made trade harder with our closest and biggest trading partners, and within our own nation, damaged our reputation and standing in the world and made it all the more likely the UK breaks up. And for what? More sovereignty (as long as we don’t deviate much from EU rules)? The cost of EU membership was £8 to 9 billion every year. Do you have the cost of administering leaving? I can find: www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/summary-costing-brexitWe were subject to EU legislation on the topics I mentioned. In the case of human rights the ECJ did rule on prisoners' right to vote in EU elections, which the EU constitution requires universal suffrage. But typically it did not rule against a case in France and fudged a compromise. The UK offered to let a 100 prisoners vote and that was accepted. All I can say they have afunny idea of justice and human rights. Either prisoners should or shouldn't be allowed to vote, we all probably have an opinion on which is right, but to fudge a compromise is not my idea of justice. We can now make it easier to trade with the RoW in future, where most of our trade is and is growing 2 to 3 times faster than with the EU. The EU is now no longer making rules on our majority of trade with the RoW as they were before. We can deviate from EU rules and we are not subject to ECJ adjudication. The immediate problems of leaving will be overcome. If the UK were to break up England would not have to keep subsidising Scotland and Northern Ireland. I' m not against Scottish independance or a united Ireland, if that is what they want. I believe in democracy. Just accept we have left, and we are never going back. Is there a reason why you seem incapable of posting relevant up-to-date links? In this case one from over 2 years ago that is totally and utterly inaccurate. Here are some a quick google search turned up. www.businessinsider.com/brexit-will-cost-uk-more-than-total-payments-to-eu-2020-1?r=US&IR=Twww.express.co.uk/news/politics/1337244/how-much-has-brexit-cost-taxpayer-amountwww.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/brexit-set-to-cost-the-uk-more-than-200-billion-by-the-end-of-the-year/16/06/www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2020/01/21/brexit-costs-close-to-matching-britains-total-eu-contributions-infographic/?sh=6affcc071c55
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 19, 2021 14:35:36 GMT
So hooray for sovereignty and all that, but out of interest which laws and regulations specifically under the EU were holding us back so badly and preventing us from fulfilling our true potential as a country? What can we now do that we couldn't before which is an improvement? I refer you to my posts on October 24th last year. Can you give me the gist or send me a link?
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Post by oggyoggy on Jan 19, 2021 14:43:17 GMT
We have spent more than our entire EU budget contributions put together during membership administering leaving. Imagine if that had been spent on public services, nurses, hospitals, schools etc. We have divided the nation over an issue most still don’t understand and most didn’t really care about a year before the referendum. We were free to decide the vast majority of the laws and rules that govern the points you raised whilst being a member of the EU. What are these human rights laws you say we are now free from out of interest!? What we have done is made trade harder with our closest and biggest trading partners, and within our own nation, damaged our reputation and standing in the world and made it all the more likely the UK breaks up. And for what? More sovereignty (as long as we don’t deviate much from EU rules)? The cost of EU membership was £8 to 9 billion every year. Do you have the cost of administering leaving? I can find: www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/summary-costing-brexitWe were subject to EU legislation on the topics I mentioned. In the case of human rights the ECJ did rule on prisoners' right to vote in EU elections, which the EU constitution requires universal suffrage. But typically it did not rule against a case in France and fudged a compromise. The UK offered to let a 100 prisoners vote and that was accepted. All I can say they have afunny idea of justice and human rights. Either prisoners should or shouldn't be allowed to vote, we all probably have an opinion on which is right, but to fudge a compromise is not my idea of justice. We can now make it easier to trade with the RoW in future, where most of our trade is and is growing 2 to 3 times faster than with the EU. The EU is now no longer making rules on our majority of trade with the RoW as they were before. We can deviate from EU rules and we are not subject to ECJ adjudication. The immediate problems of leaving will be overcome. If the UK were to break up England would not have to keep subsidising Scotland and Northern Ireland. I' m not against Scottish independance or a united Ireland, if that is what they want. I believe in democracy. Just accept we have left, and we are never going back. Sorry, I was wrong. The economic cost of Brexit (in 4 years from 2016 - 2020) is around £200 billion. Our total net contributions to 2020 over 47 years is just more, at £222 billion. So in a couple of months time, the cost will have been more. What a waste of money! fullfact.org/europe/online-cost-brexit-net-contributions/Prisoners voting is predominantly a ECtHR issue. We were reigned in by the ECtHR on this issue. Article 3 of protocol 1 of the convention of human rights. It is not predominantly an EU issue. Trade with ROW is worse immediately as we have ripped up all our trade agreements and are still rolling them over. Our trade with the EU far exceeds trading with our trade blocs. It is likely to always be like that due to proximity. If you trade £10 with Tonga and double that to £20 then of course growth in trade is exceeding growth in EU trade! Being subject to regulations protecting workers or consumer protections, or that put greater restrictions on massive cooperations regarding competition are good things which are pro individual and restrict big businesses. You may be against them. But generally that is what EU law covered. The finer details have always been set by individual member states but there is a minimum standard that business must comply with. We could now legislate otherwise, but why anyone would want to get rid of protections to individuals I do not know. We have left. I just wish leave voters knew what they voted to leave.
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Post by mrcoke on Jan 19, 2021 14:48:16 GMT
You are confusing GDP with government spending.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Jan 19, 2021 14:48:24 GMT
So hooray for sovereignty and all that, but out of interest which laws and regulations specifically under the EU were holding us back so badly and preventing us from fulfilling our true potential as a country? What can we now do that we couldn't before which is an improvement? I refer you to my posts on October 24th last year. Have read it now, thanks - it's all still very vague, I was hoping for specifics?
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Post by foster on Jan 19, 2021 14:56:11 GMT
You are confusing GDP with government spending. I'm not confusing anything unless you're saying the links I've posted aren't more relevant than your outdated one. Although you do seem to confuse fiction with reality based on the supporting evidence you provide to your arguments.
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Post by mrcoke on Jan 19, 2021 16:32:22 GMT
You are confusing GDP with government spending. I'm not confusing anything unless you're saying the links I've posted aren't more relevant than your outdated one. Although you do seem to confuse fiction with reality based on the supporting evidence you provide to your arguments. I'll try and explain this to you slowly: 1. The 4 links you provide are all articles based on the same Bloomberg Economics report, not 4 separate sources. 2. Bloomberg is a very anti Brexit organization that has contributed £250,00 to the anti Brexit campaign. Bloomberg lobbies in Brussels www.politico.eu/article/bloomberg-vs-the-banks/www.politico.eu/blogs/on-media/2016/05/bloomberg-gave-250000-to-remain-campaign/3. The costs of EU membership are quite transparent and based on actual payments {Net after rebate) made to the EU. They are actual costs to the UK tax payer. 4. The Bloomberg research is a study of how much they believe the UK GPD has been adversely affected by Brexit. It is purely investigative journalism and speculation. Even in normal times it is highly suspect to say what might or might not have happened to the UK economy with or without Brexit, but in the middle of a global pandemic I would suggest it is virtually impossible. Particularly by an organisation that is so highly anti-Brexit. The figure of £200 billion is totally speculative. 5. Even if the figure of £200 billion were correct it is GDP, not taxpayers money. The UK tax on GDP is about a third. 6. It has always been the case that leaving the EU will cause disruption and therefore costs. It can be argued that had the UK been outside the EU for the last 20 years the GDP could have grown faster in line with non EU countries. Obviously it cannot be proven one way or another. Its certainly a fact that the rest of the world is growing a lot faster than the EU and over 90% of future growth will be outside the EU. When the UK joined the EEC it was a trading organization which with the present members accounted for over a third of the worlds GDP. Today it is less than a fifth and in 10 to 20 years in will be less than 10%. The EU is desperately worried and that is why it has entered an investment deal with China, driven by the massive corporate lobby in Brussels. The UK will be better placed outside of the EU to take advantage with trade deals with the RoW in the future, but it is not going to happen over night. There is little to be gained by talking down the UK. Remainers have to accept we have left and work towards building a better Britain in the world market. The EU will do everything in its power to dissuade any other countries leaving. Picking on little Jersey as I posted earlier is just despicable.
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Post by foster on Jan 19, 2021 17:13:27 GMT
I'm not confusing anything unless you're saying the links I've posted aren't more relevant than your outdated one. Although you do seem to confuse fiction with reality based on the supporting evidence you provide to your arguments. I'll try and explain this to you slowly:1. The 4 links you provide are all articles based on the same Bloomberg Economics report, not 4 separate sources. 2. Bloomberg is a very anti Brexit organization that has contributed £250,00 to the anti Brexit campaign. Bloomberg lobbies in Brussels www.politico.eu/article/bloomberg-vs-the-banks/www.politico.eu/blogs/on-media/2016/05/bloomberg-gave-250000-to-remain-campaign/3. The costs of EU membership are quite transparent and based on actual payments {Net after rebate) made to the EU. They are actual costs to the UK tax payer. 4. The Bloomberg research is a study of how much they believe the UK GPD has been adversely affected by Brexit. It is purely investigative journalism and speculation. Even in normal times it is highly suspect to say what might or might not have happened to the UK economy with or without Brexit, but in the middle of a global pandemic I would suggest it is virtually impossible. Particularly by an organisation that is so highly anti-Brexit. The figure of £200 billion is totally speculative. 5. Even if the figure of £200 billion were correct it is GDP, not taxpayers money. The UK tax on GDP is about a third. 6. It has always been the case that leaving the EU will cause disruption and therefore costs. It can be argued that had the UK been outside the EU for the last 20 years the GDP could have grown faster in line with non EU countries. Obviously it cannot be proven one way or another. Its certainly a fact that the rest of the world is growing a lot faster than the EU and over 90% of future growth will be outside the EU. When the UK joined the EEC it was a trading organization which with the present members accounted for over a third of the worlds GDP. Today it is less than a fifth and in 10 to 20 years in will be less than 10%. The EU is desperately worried and that is why it has entered an investment deal with China, driven by the massive corporate lobby in Brussels. The UK will be better placed outside of the EU to take advantage with trade deals with the RoW in the future, but it is not going to happen over night. There is little to be gained by talking down the UK. Remainers have to accept we have left and work towards building a better Britain in the world market. The EU will do everything in its power to dissuade any other countries leaving. Picking on little Jersey as I posted earlier is just despicable. Well, since you want to proceed like a pompous tosser then I guess I'll bite. The links I posted are at least relevant from 2020, not March 2018. If mine (which I didn't even read) are bad, then yours was either mindless or agenda driven. A bit like your post on Israel last week that you got shot down for. Why the distinction between GDP and tax payers? In both cases it's still money that could have been saved, gained and spent where needed. See child lunches, increasing poverty and reduced police presence for examples that far exceed the benefits of repeating the 'we've got sovereignty now' rhetoric. 100 billion or 200 billion.... It's nothing to be so casually scoffed at. At minimum it's 10+ years of EU membership and the benefits gained over that time by being an EU member. That also includes lost GDP. No one is talking down the UK. That's all in your mind. They are pointing to facts which you seem to continuously dismiss as speculation or desperately find an excuse for. The way you go on about the EU makes it seem like you think we've just escaped the clutches of some kind of EU prisoner of war camp. You don't seem to have an impartial bone in your body and the shear repetitiveness of your posts on here really does highlight your unhealthy obsession with the EU. Let it go.
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Jan 19, 2021 17:39:19 GMT
One minute you're banging on about the environment and pointing out the stupidity of food miles with our closest neighbours, but then urging everyone to sign a petition making it easier to get on a plane to the other side of the planet? Surely to be consistent you would be urging people to minimise unnecessary travel ?
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Post by mrcoke on Jan 19, 2021 17:52:18 GMT
I'll try and explain this to you slowly:1. The 4 links you provide are all articles based on the same Bloomberg Economics report, not 4 separate sources. 2. Bloomberg is a very anti Brexit organization that has contributed £250,00 to the anti Brexit campaign. Bloomberg lobbies in Brussels www.politico.eu/article/bloomberg-vs-the-banks/www.politico.eu/blogs/on-media/2016/05/bloomberg-gave-250000-to-remain-campaign/3. The costs of EU membership are quite transparent and based on actual payments {Net after rebate) made to the EU. They are actual costs to the UK tax payer. 4. The Bloomberg research is a study of how much they believe the UK GPD has been adversely affected by Brexit. It is purely investigative journalism and speculation. Even in normal times it is highly suspect to say what might or might not have happened to the UK economy with or without Brexit, but in the middle of a global pandemic I would suggest it is virtually impossible. Particularly by an organisation that is so highly anti-Brexit. The figure of £200 billion is totally speculative. 5. Even if the figure of £200 billion were correct it is GDP, not taxpayers money. The UK tax on GDP is about a third. 6. It has always been the case that leaving the EU will cause disruption and therefore costs. It can be argued that had the UK been outside the EU for the last 20 years the GDP could have grown faster in line with non EU countries. Obviously it cannot be proven one way or another. Its certainly a fact that the rest of the world is growing a lot faster than the EU and over 90% of future growth will be outside the EU. When the UK joined the EEC it was a trading organization which with the present members accounted for over a third of the worlds GDP. Today it is less than a fifth and in 10 to 20 years in will be less than 10%. The EU is desperately worried and that is why it has entered an investment deal with China, driven by the massive corporate lobby in Brussels. The UK will be better placed outside of the EU to take advantage with trade deals with the RoW in the future, but it is not going to happen over night. There is little to be gained by talking down the UK. Remainers have to accept we have left and work towards building a better Britain in the world market. The EU will do everything in its power to dissuade any other countries leaving. Picking on little Jersey as I posted earlier is just despicable. Well, since you want to proceed like a pompous tosser then I guess I'll bite. The links I posted are at least relevant from 2020, not March 2018. If mine (which I didn't even read) are bad, then yours was either mindless or agenda driven. A bit like your post on Israel last week that you got shot down for. Why the distinction between GDP and tax payers? In both cases it's still money that could have been saved, gained and spent where needed. See child lunches, increasing poverty and reduced police presence for examples that far exceed the benefits of repeating the 'we've got sovereignty now' rhetoric. 100 billion or 200 billion.... It's nothing to be so casually scoffed at. At minimum it's 10+ years of EU membership and the benefits gained over that time by being an EU member. That also includes lost GDP. No one is talking down the UK. That's all in your mind. They are pointing to facts which you seem to continuously dismiss as speculation or desperately find an excuse for. The way you go on about the EU makes it seem like you think we've just escaped the clutches of some kind of EU prisoner of war camp. You don't seem to have an impartial bone in your body and the shear repetitiveness of your posts on here really does highlight your unhealthy obsession with the EU. Let it go. When you have to result to insults you really have lost the argument. The links you posted are purely speculation not facts. GDP is not tax. The UK GDP is over £2trillion pa, so a slight error in Bloomberg projection makes a massive difference. The projection is not facts just Bloomberg's deduction based on loads of assumptions. If the UK had remained in the EU, what do you think future contributions would be? The benefit of being in the EU includes a £60-70 billion pa trade deficit. That is real money pouring out of the country. Apologies if I mistakenly accused you of talking down Britain. I'm not impartial on the EU. I was in favour of being in the EEC, but totally against handing over the government of the UK to a bureaucracy in Brussels under the influence of massive corporations. I fully expected the referendum to go in favour of remaining in the EU. I am appalled at those who refuse to accept the decision and have done everything to undermine the leaving process. Apologies for keeping on repeating myself, but I fully expect to have to keep repeating that leaving the EU was the correct decision, for political reasons primarily, and I believe economically in the long term. I believe this country was betrayed by John Major who tried to keep the terms of the Maastricht Treaty secret.
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Post by foster on Jan 19, 2021 18:01:10 GMT
Well, since you want to proceed like a pompous tosser then I guess I'll bite. The links I posted are at least relevant from 2020, not March 2018. If mine (which I didn't even read) are bad, then yours was either mindless or agenda driven. A bit like your post on Israel last week that you got shot down for. Why the distinction between GDP and tax payers? In both cases it's still money that could have been saved, gained and spent where needed. See child lunches, increasing poverty and reduced police presence for examples that far exceed the benefits of repeating the 'we've got sovereignty now' rhetoric. 100 billion or 200 billion.... It's nothing to be so casually scoffed at. At minimum it's 10+ years of EU membership and the benefits gained over that time by being an EU member. That also includes lost GDP. No one is talking down the UK. That's all in your mind. They are pointing to facts which you seem to continuously dismiss as speculation or desperately find an excuse for. The way you go on about the EU makes it seem like you think we've just escaped the clutches of some kind of EU prisoner of war camp. You don't seem to have an impartial bone in your body and the shear repetitiveness of your posts on here really does highlight your unhealthy obsession with the EU. Let it go. When you have to result to insults you really have lost the argument.The links you posted are purely speculation not facts. GDP is not tax. The UK GDP is over £2trillion pa, so a slight error in Bloomberg projection makes a massive difference. The projection is not facts just Bloomberg's deduction based on loads of assumptions. If the UK had remained in the EU, what do you think future contributions would be? The benefit of being in the EU includes a £60-70 billion pa trade deficit. That is real money pouring out of the country. Apologies if I mistakenly accused you of talking down Britain. I'm not impartial on the EU. I was in favour of being in the EEC, but totally against handing over the government of the UK to a bureaucracy in Brussels under the influence of massive corporations. I fully expected the referendum to go in favour of remaining in the EU. I am appalled at those who refuse to accept the decision and have done everything to undermine the leaving process. Apologies for keeping on repeating myself, but I fully expect to have to keep repeating that leaving the EU was the correct decision, for political reasons primarily, and I believe economically in the long term. I believe this country was betrayed by John Major who tried to keep the terms of the Maastricht Treaty secret. You must mean in how you insinuated I was slow then. Deluded mate. You don't even know what you're writing half the time.
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Jan 19, 2021 18:02:37 GMT
An puerile article written by a bitter loser. We are 19 days into freedom from EU rule, see where we are in 19 weeks, 19 months, and 19 years. All the Remainers talk about is fish, the same people who said it was an insignificant part of the UK economy a few months ago. The problems will be resolved in time, when people have taken their "silly hats" off and realise it is to the mutual benefit of all parties to sort it out sensibly. The fascination for me regarding fishing is the way it was a prime motivator for Leavers , to the point where no deal was a worthwhile step to reinvigorate our fishing communities . The reality appears to be some way from that , with a battle now seemingly being fought to hold onto the industry we have, let alone expansion. Fishing was sold out to minimise the damage to other sectors and I believe that was the correct move , obviously not for the fishing industry, but tough choices have to be made when faced with the risks that a no deal presented. The way that many Leavers seem unconcerned about the industry they prized is of genuine interest to me. As for Remainers only talking about fishing ,in the spirit of trying to move on I wasn't planning coming on here every couple of days posting tales of post-Brexit woe, but if it makes you feel better if we're not just talking about fish there is plenty to go at. For now this is one business owner's experience :
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Jan 19, 2021 18:03:55 GMT
Yes, all bad parts of brexit should just be ignored! Why? The article talks about a lot more than fish. Brexit has been bad, so far. We cannot judge 19 months time yet. We can only judge what has happened so far. Brexit is a success. We are free of government by the EU on issues such as trade agreements, immigration laws, regional aid, tax policy, aid to farming, industry, sports, and the arts, etc., set our own competition rules, human rights, environment and food standards, health and safety standards, equality standards, employment law, and those other matters that have been dictated by the EU in the past. Obviously it will take years to put things in place. Then there are future issues that a united states of EU will decide such as foreign policy. We are no longer subject to the European Court of Justice We are no longer a member of a corrupt organization that is dominated by large corporations. We have our own government which we can get rid of and change to whatever the British people decide. I am not ignoring the difficulties of leaving. I fully expected it will take a long time to disentangle ourselves and get in line with all the red tape and rules of the customs barrier the EU has set up with the rest of the world. I fully expect some people will be deliberately awkward with the new situation. I also expect the EU to want to punish the UK, but to show just how malevolent they are see this: www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-jersey-55567451The Channel Islands are not part of the UK and have never been in the EU, but the EU (in this case France) are being as awkward as possible. Now they are bullying little Jersey. It just goes to show what a petty organization the EU is, and what despicable people they are. Everything that has happened since the people of this country voted to leave the EU in 2016 has made me more certain that it was the correct decision to leave such a rotten corrupt organization. Actually, at a fundamental level, which was largely the point, the real success of the entire project has been keeping the Tory Party together. Sad that this comes at a cost to the UK that probably involves decades of economic impact, poorer public services as a result, divisions and rancour between people that simply didn't exist before and quite possibly the break-up of the Brexiteers' beloved sovereign state which we currently know as the UK. And all over something that no-one gave a shit about a decade ago - nuts!
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Post by spitthedog on Jan 19, 2021 19:28:04 GMT
Brexit clears the way for trade deals with China
The government has narrowly seen off a rebellion by Tory MPs over the question over whether trade deals should be revoked in cases of genocide.
MPs decided by 319 to 308 votes to remove an amendment to the Trade Bill which would have allowed the High Court to nullify agreements if states are found to have committed mass killings.
It comes amid condemnation of China's treatment of the Uighur people.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jan 19, 2021 19:39:54 GMT
Brexit is a success. We are free of government by the EU on issues such as trade agreements, immigration laws, regional aid, tax policy, aid to farming, industry, sports, and the arts, etc., set our own competition rules, human rights, environment and food standards, health and safety standards, equality standards, employment law, and those other matters that have been dictated by the EU in the past. Obviously it will take years to put things in place. Then there are future issues that a united states of EU will decide such as foreign policy. We are no longer subject to the European Court of Justice We are no longer a member of a corrupt organization that is dominated by large corporations. We have our own government which we can get rid of and change to whatever the British people decide. I am not ignoring the difficulties of leaving. I fully expected it will take a long time to disentangle ourselves and get in line with all the red tape and rules of the customs barrier the EU has set up with the rest of the world. I fully expect some people will be deliberately awkward with the new situation. I also expect the EU to want to punish the UK, but to show just how malevolent they are see this: www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-jersey-55567451The Channel Islands are not part of the UK and have never been in the EU, but the EU (in this case France) are being as awkward as possible. Now they are bullying little Jersey. It just goes to show what a petty organization the EU is, and what despicable people they are. Everything that has happened since the people of this country voted to leave the EU in 2016 has made me more certain that it was the correct decision to leave such a rotten corrupt organization. Actually, at a fundamental level, which was largely the point, the real success of the entire project has been keeping the Tory Party together. Sad that this comes at a cost to the UK that probably involves decades of economic impact, poorer public services as a result, divisions and rancour between people that simply didn't exist before and quite possibly the break-up of the Brexiteers' beloved sovereign state which we currently know as the UK. And all over something that no-one gave a shit about a decade ago - nuts! This Tory nobody gave a shit. What happened to him?
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Jan 19, 2021 21:37:36 GMT
www.euronews.com/living/2021/01/18/brexit-loophole-allows-uk-to-ignore-eu-ban-on-plastic-waste-exportsThis is the kind of thing I don't like to see. I want to see the UK at the forefront of sustainability, ESG and clean energy. Sustainability and the protection of the planet is the worlds number 1 priority at the moment. "The UK is the world’s second largest exporter of plastic waste, sending around two thirds of it to developing countries. In 2020, the month of September alone saw 6,896 metric tonnes exported from the UK to countries such as Malaysia, Pakistan, Vietnam, and Indonesia, according to the Basel Action Network (BAN). These countries don’t have the capacity or facilities to properly manage the waste, which means most of it is burned or buried. This has knock-on effects for local communities." We send Vietnam 6,896 metric tonnes of our Great British plastic waste every year, let's spend it on ou- Oh bollocks it doesn't work does it. Happy British waste for British people 🇬🇧
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Jan 19, 2021 22:28:59 GMT
www.euronews.com/living/2021/01/18/brexit-loophole-allows-uk-to-ignore-eu-ban-on-plastic-waste-exportsThis is the kind of thing I don't like to see. I want to see the UK at the forefront of sustainability, ESG and clean energy. Sustainability and the protection of the planet is the worlds number 1 priority at the moment. "The UK is the world’s second largest exporter of plastic waste, sending around two thirds of it to developing countries. In 2020, the month of September alone saw 6,896 metric tonnes exported from the UK to countries such as Malaysia, Pakistan, Vietnam, and Indonesia, according to the Basel Action Network (BAN). These countries don’t have the capacity or facilities to properly manage the waste, which means most of it is burned or buried. This has knock-on effects for local communities." We send Vietnam 6,896 metric tonnes of our Great British plastic waste every year, let's spend it on ou- Oh bollocks it doesn't work does it. Happy British waste for British people 🇬🇧 Yes, sending our plastic waste to expanding countries is clearly a growth export opportunity now we're free of the shackles of the EU......let's hope this loophole is closed quickly.
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Jan 19, 2021 22:36:52 GMT
We send Vietnam 6,896 metric tonnes of our Great British plastic waste every year, let's spend it on ou- Oh bollocks it doesn't work does it. Happy British waste for British people 🇬🇧 Yes, sending our plastic waste to expanding countries is clearly a growth export opportunity now we're free of the shackles of the EU......let's hope this loophole is closed quickly. Deregulation is the very core of Brexit. It is this area the Foster has highlighted which will determine how rotten that core is.
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Post by LL Cool Dave on Jan 20, 2021 13:14:59 GMT
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Post by wagsastokie on Jan 20, 2021 18:59:42 GMT
Just watched my local bbc news ( look east )
And they had several transport bosses on about delays at ports And this meat exporter was saying the main problem lies with the interpretation of the guidance that goes with the form
As using the form the lorry goes straight through but in another port or country the same form and the lorry is held up
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