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Post by mrcoke on Dec 3, 2020 13:23:51 GMT
I don't know whether the EU exerts any authority over individual countries policy on the use of a vaccine. What I do know is the the EU is committed to ever closer union and greater autonomy for central control from Brussels. This is being achieved by a succession of treaties which gradually emascualate the independance in individual nations. Certainly the day will come when many of the decisions made by individual countries during the pandemic will be made in Brussels and implemented via an EU executive. There is talk of EU Autonomy which is presently dressed up as a common approach to the external world, such a an EU army, and a common approach to foreign policy. This is led by the French and presently resisted by Sweden and a few of the smaller countries who want to retain their traditional neutrality. If I was living in the EU I would be worried about that as some EU countries have used their army against their own people in the recent past. Something that is abhorrent to the British and did not even happen during Thatcher's battle with the miners and the 80s inner city riots. Correct me if I'm wrong, but apart from war time, the last time Britain used the army against its own people was in the 1920s by Churchill and others, nearly a century ago. Certainly the EU will be taking steps to dissuade any other countries ( or peoples like the Basques) from leaving the EU or separating in any way, by ensuring they are locked into the EU financially and economically and even eventually politically. Article 50 will be amended in due course to ensure a country can only leave the EU if the EU permits. There will be some who scoff at that remark, like I scoffed at my fathers prediction of EU control in the 1970s, but it will come to happen, if the EU actually survives and isn't split apart by the Euro, the desperate economic state of southern European countries, or the disillusionment of countries seeing their countries decay by young people leaving to find work in Central Europe. Since you asked, I'm quite happy to correct your wrongness. All those incidents of the British army being used against British people in Northern Ireland for decades didn't happen presumably? In fact, if any European country has deployed its own army against its own citizens more frequently and routinely than the UK, I'd be interested to hear about them. Possibly Spain under Franco's dictatorship, but that ended in 1975, so I'd doubt it frankly. Go on, tell me why it's different because it's the UK! I think the role of the army in Northern Ireland was to keep the peace, not to suppress the people. I'm not saying mistakes weren't made, but the Wilson government put troops into Northern Ireland to protect the Catholic/nationalist minority from discrimination by the NI government and Royal Ulster Constabulary, who engaged in police brutality. So yes that was very different. What do you think the Wilson government should have done? You are right about Franco. The French have use the army quite recently: www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/22/france-drafts-in-troops-to-prevent-further-gilets-jaunes-violencewww.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/03/23/fren-m23.html
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Post by followyoudown on Dec 3, 2020 13:44:19 GMT
Tommy talks alot about medical regulators and clinicians at his rallies ? I find that surprising myself but good to see he has moved on from the muslim rape gangs at last or you know is it possible you are talking and I put this as delicately as possible complete bollocks. we've got the best people, the best medical regulators "much better than the French have, much better than the Belgians have, much better than the Americans have. That doesn’t surprise me at all because we’re a much better country than every single one of them, aren’t we.” Best country in the facking world! Now why would you leave the bit outside the quotes out nevermind the later comments could it possibly be you are talking bollocks, obviously I am happy to apologise if you can put up a speech from little tommy talking about medical regulators or clinicians but I think you might be struggling....
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Post by sheikhmomo on Dec 3, 2020 14:09:27 GMT
we've got the best people, the best medical regulators "much better than the French have, much better than the Belgians have, much better than the Americans have. That doesn’t surprise me at all because we’re a much better country than every single one of them, aren’t we.” Best country in the facking world! Now why would you leave the bit outside the quotes out nevermind the later comments could it possibly be you are talking bollocks, obviously I am happy to apologise if you can put up a speech from little tommy talking about medical regulators or clinicians but I think you might be struggling.... I'm talking of what he said in the quotes. He did say it, I've heard him. What do you think of the cretinous Yaxleyesque nationalistic nonsense he said in the quotes? Fucking embarrassing isn't it?
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Post by wagsastokie on Dec 3, 2020 15:02:01 GMT
we've got the best people, the best medical regulators "much better than the French have, much better than the Belgians have, much better than the Americans have. That doesn’t surprise me at all because we’re a much better country than every single one of them, aren’t we.” Best country in the facking world! Now why would you leave the bit outside the quotes out nevermind the later comments could it possibly be you are talking bollocks, obviously I am happy to apologise if you can put up a speech from little tommy talking about medical regulators or clinicians but I think you might be struggling.... The only laboratory Tommy is interested in is the one producing his marching powder
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 3, 2020 16:01:08 GMT
Since you asked, I'm quite happy to correct your wrongness. All those incidents of the British army being used against British people in Northern Ireland for decades didn't happen presumably? In fact, if any European country has deployed its own army against its own citizens more frequently and routinely than the UK, I'd be interested to hear about them. Possibly Spain under Franco's dictatorship, but that ended in 1975, so I'd doubt it frankly. Go on, tell me why it's different because it's the UK! I think the role of the army in Northern Ireland was to keep the peace, not to suppress the people. I'm not saying mistakes weren't made, but the Wilson government put troops into Northern Ireland to protect the Catholic/nationalist minority from discrimination by the NI government and Royal Ulster Constabulary, who engaged in police brutality. So yes that was very different. What do you think the Wilson government should have done? You are right about Franco. The French have use the army quite recently: www.theguardian.com/world/2019/mar/22/france-drafts-in-troops-to-prevent-further-gilets-jaunes-violencewww.wsws.org/en/articles/2019/03/23/fren-m23.htmlYes, I knew the UK's routine and lengthy deployment of troops in one part of the UK would, in your eyes, be very different! You claimed EU countries had used their own armies against their own people, something the UK wouldn't do apparently, but did for decades! We all see what we want to see. Corruption is endemic to European countries apparently, so never mind our own sleaze-ridden government with its plethora of dodgy PPE deals in the last few months. Southern European countries will fritter away money, never mind the £4bn so far wasted on a world-beating test and trace system which still doesn't work properly and the ongoing vanity project that is HS2. And, of course, when the UK deploys its own army against its own people for decades, that is of course entirely different!
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Post by followyoudown on Dec 3, 2020 17:02:56 GMT
Now why would you leave the bit outside the quotes out nevermind the later comments could it possibly be you are talking bollocks, obviously I am happy to apologise if you can put up a speech from little tommy talking about medical regulators or clinicians but I think you might be struggling.... I'm talking of what he said in the quotes. He did say it, I've heard him. What do you think of the cretinous Yaxleyesque nationalistic nonsense he said in the quotes? Fucking embarrassing isn't it? Honestly go back and listen again he quite clearly says it in the context of the words I added that he said directly before which gives it a somewhat different context than the one you are claiming, pretty ironic only yesterday you moaned about lies and distortion from mps yet here you are as usual practicing it like a good un. So in terms of medical regulators it would appear they have done a good job completing the testing and approval before anyone else, does that make them better or are they just better organised or were they just lucky, I don't know or really care but good job by them whatever and bastard tories praising public sector health workers hey. As for trying to compare what was said to little Tommy thats just embarassing and laughable oh and did I mention complete bollocks
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Post by thevoid on Dec 3, 2020 17:25:40 GMT
I don't know whether the EU exerts any authority over individual countries policy on the use of a vaccine. What I do know is the the EU is committed to ever closer union and greater autonomy for central control from Brussels. This is being achieved by a succession of treaties which gradually emascualate the independance in individual nations. Certainly the day will come when many of the decisions made by individual countries during the pandemic will be made in Brussels and implemented via an EU executive. There is talk of EU Autonomy which is presently dressed up as a common approach to the external world, such a an EU army, and a common approach to foreign policy. This is led by the French and presently resisted by Sweden and a few of the smaller countries who want to retain their traditional neutrality. If I was living in the EU I would be worried about that as some EU countries have used their army against their own people in the recent past. Something that is abhorrent to the British and did not even happen during Thatcher's battle with the miners and the 80s inner city riots. Correct me if I'm wrong, but apart from war time, the last time Britain used the army against its own people was in the 1920s by Churchill and others, nearly a century ago. Certainly the EU will be taking steps to dissuade any other countries ( or peoples like the Basques) from leaving the EU or separating in any way, by ensuring they are locked into the EU financially and economically and even eventually politically. Article 50 will be amended in due course to ensure a country can only leave the EU if the EU permits. There will be some who scoff at that remark, like I scoffed at my fathers prediction of EU control in the 1970s, but it will come to happen, if the EU actually survives and isn't split apart by the Euro, the desperate economic state of southern European countries, or the disillusionment of countries seeing their countries decay by young people leaving to find work in Central Europe. Since you asked, I'm quite happy to correct your wrongness. All those incidents of the British army being used against British people in Northern Ireland for decades didn't happen presumably? In fact, if any European country has deployed its own army against its own citizens more frequently and routinely than the UK, I'd be interested to hear about them. Possibly Spain under Franco's dictatorship, but that ended in 1975, so I'd doubt it frankly. Go on, tell me why it's different because it's the UK! Well I can refer you to the difference in which the UK Government handled the Scottish IndyRef compared with their Spanish counterparts in Catalonia, which was like a return to Franco's reign! I don't recall the UK police baton charging Yes campaigners, or Alex and Nicola being locked up as political prisoners?
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Post by wagsastokie on Dec 3, 2020 18:01:46 GMT
Since you asked, I'm quite happy to correct your wrongness. All those incidents of the British army being used against British people in Northern Ireland for decades didn't happen presumably? In fact, if any European country has deployed its own army against its own citizens more frequently and routinely than the UK, I'd be interested to hear about them. Possibly Spain under Franco's dictatorship, but that ended in 1975, so I'd doubt it frankly. Go on, tell me why it's different because it's the UK! Well I can refer you to the difference in which the UK Government handled the Scottish IndyRef compared with their Spanish counterparts in Catalonia, which was like a return to Franco's reign! I don't recall the UK police baton charging Yes campaigners, or Alex and Nicola being locked up as political prisoners? Well some of Nicola’s cohorts tried as hard as they could to get Alex locked up
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Post by sheikhmomo on Dec 3, 2020 18:03:56 GMT
I'm talking of what he said in the quotes. He did say it, I've heard him. What do you think of the cretinous Yaxleyesque nationalistic nonsense he said in the quotes? Fucking embarrassing isn't it? Honestly go back and listen again he quite clearly says it in the context of the words I added that he said directly before which gives it a somewhat different context than the one you are claiming, pretty ironic only yesterday you moaned about lies and distortion from mps yet here you are as usual practicing it like a good un. So in terms of medical regulators it would appear they have done a good job completing the testing and approval before anyone else, does that make them better or are they just better organised or were they just lucky, I don't know or really care but good job by them whatever and bastard tories praising public sector health workers hey. As for trying to compare what was said to little Tommy thats just embarassing and laughable oh and did I mention complete bollocks FYD A lifetime of defending the indefensible if it's a Tory. What he said was schoolboy embarrassing twaddle, the sort of shit that a moron with a tarantula and a whip in his office or a member of Tommy's army might come out with. Why can't you just say it? Johnson wont close you down, that's Sir Keith's domain! You can imagine this is the sort of way our Brexit negotiations go, 'give us exactly what we want because we're better than you and the bally greatest country in the whole damn world'. Elgar Enigma Variations playing in the background a tear running down Baron Frost's cheek as he thinks of nanny and tea and crumpets.
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Post by mrcoke on Dec 3, 2020 18:05:45 GMT
Yes, I knew the UK's routine and lengthy deployment of troops in one part of the UK would, in your eyes, be very different! You claimed EU countries had used their own armies against their own people, something the UK wouldn't do apparently, but did for decades! We all see what we want to see. Corruption is endemic to European countries apparently, so never mind our own sleaze-ridden government with its plethora of dodgy PPE deals in the last few months. Southern European countries will fritter away money, never mind the £4bn so far wasted on a world-beating test and trace system which still doesn't work properly and the ongoing vanity project that is HS2. And, of course, when the UK deploys its own army against its own people for decades, that is of course entirely different! Troops were deployed in Northern Ireland to keep extremist factions from murdering each other. It was a policing operation. I note you failed to answer my question on what you would do, just criticise Wilson's action, which subsequent governments followed. Yes there is corruption and incompetence in the UK as well as the EU. Let's do something about it by removing the people responsible. The Americans have just removed Trump, we can remove Johnson (together!), but you cannot remove EU commissioners/officials, and you cannot remove foreign political leaders that sit on the European Council, and you have virtually no influence on the composition of the European Parliament You prefer to support a regime that removed Italian politicians from office.
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Post by followyoudown on Dec 3, 2020 19:15:00 GMT
Honestly go back and listen again he quite clearly says it in the context of the words I added that he said directly before which gives it a somewhat different context than the one you are claiming, pretty ironic only yesterday you moaned about lies and distortion from mps yet here you are as usual practicing it like a good un. So in terms of medical regulators it would appear they have done a good job completing the testing and approval before anyone else, does that make them better or are they just better organised or were they just lucky, I don't know or really care but good job by them whatever and bastard tories praising public sector health workers hey. As for trying to compare what was said to little Tommy thats just embarassing and laughable oh and did I mention complete bollocks FYD A lifetime of defending the indefensible if it's a Tory. What he said was schoolboy embarrassing twaddle, the sort of shit that a moron with a tarantula and a whip in his office or a member of Tommy's army might come out with. Why can't you just say it? Johnson wont close you down, that's Sir Keith's domain! You can imagine this is the sort of way our Brexit negotiations go, 'give us exactly what we want because we're better than you and the bally greatest country in the whole damn world'. Elgar Enigma Variations playing in the background a tear running down Baron Frost's cheek as he thinks of nanny and tea and crumpets. Praising public sector regulators and clinicians go on then point me in the direction of one of tommy's gang doing that, all the people like you spitting the dummy over him saying our regulators are better, happily lap up any old shit about anything we do badly or worse than other countries it's quite funny really.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Dec 3, 2020 19:33:27 GMT
FYD A lifetime of defending the indefensible if it's a Tory. What he said was schoolboy embarrassing twaddle, the sort of shit that a moron with a tarantula and a whip in his office or a member of Tommy's army might come out with. Why can't you just say it? Johnson wont close you down, that's Sir Keith's domain! You can imagine this is the sort of way our Brexit negotiations go, 'give us exactly what we want because we're better than you and the bally greatest country in the whole damn world'. Elgar Enigma Variations playing in the background a tear running down Baron Frost's cheek as he thinks of nanny and tea and crumpets. Praising public sector regulators and clinicians go on then point me in the direction of one of tommy's gang doing that, all the people like you spitting the dummy over him saying our regulators are better, happily lap up any old shit about anything we do badly or worse than other countries it's quite funny really. www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/dec/03/manchild-gavin-williamson-plumbs-new-depths-of-stupidity-with-vaccine-drivel'ratcheting up the nationalism' 'Just think about the level of stupidity for a moment. Not only does Williamson have no firsthand knowledge of other country’s medical regulators – don’t forget he is also the education secretary who failed to spot in March that the coronavirus pandemic would have knock on consequences with the cancellation of school exams – he is seemingly unaware that Pfizer is a US company and that the vaccine is being produced in Belgium.' 'Quite apart from a willingness to casually insult the rest of the world for being more crap than the UK – one day Gav might like to compare global coronavirus death rates –' 'As if the rest of the world was on a deliberate go-slow, bogged down in pointless bureaucracy to deny their people the vaccine. Yep defending the indefensible.....as usual.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 3, 2020 22:32:26 GMT
Yes, I knew the UK's routine and lengthy deployment of troops in one part of the UK would, in your eyes, be very different! You claimed EU countries had used their own armies against their own people, something the UK wouldn't do apparently, but did for decades! We all see what we want to see. Corruption is endemic to European countries apparently, so never mind our own sleaze-ridden government with its plethora of dodgy PPE deals in the last few months. Southern European countries will fritter away money, never mind the £4bn so far wasted on a world-beating test and trace system which still doesn't work properly and the ongoing vanity project that is HS2. And, of course, when the UK deploys its own army against its own people for decades, that is of course entirely different! Troops were deployed in Northern Ireland to keep extremist factions from murdering each other. It was a policing operation. I note you failed to answer my question on what you would do, just criticise Wilson's action, which subsequent governments followed. Yes there is corruption and incompetence in the UK as well as the EU. Let's do something about it by removing the people responsible. The Americans have just removed Trump, we can remove Johnson (together!), but you cannot remove EU commissioners/officials, and you cannot remove foreign political leaders that sit on the European Council, and you have virtually no influence on the composition of the European Parliament You prefer to support a regime that removed Italian politicians from office. To answer your question, why does it matter what I'd do, I was just pointing out the simple fallacy of your claim that in Europe they use their armies against their own people and this was something we wouldn't do in the UK. Just plain wrong isn't it, and another demonstration of a somewhat one-eyed approach to the facts when it comes to comparing the UK and the EU. We've used troops on UK streets far more often and routinely than they have on the continent in the last four or five decades, and I've no doubt they considered them policing operations too! Thankfully, no longer needed these days, and I hope it doesn't happen, but if anything is going to put troops back on the streets of NI it'll be the impact of Brexit on the Good Friday Agreement.
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Post by mrcoke on Dec 4, 2020 15:51:33 GMT
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Post by partickpotter on Dec 4, 2020 16:22:42 GMT
Classic opposition politics - I doubt Starmer needs telling the benefit of this position. I’d be amazed if he didn’t do this.
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Dec 4, 2020 19:58:49 GMT
Absolutely. From the time of the referendum result my hope has been that we can avoid the nonsense of a no-deal and have the closest possible working relationship in an effort to limit the damage done. It was inevitable that the EU would seek to protect the interests of its remaining members. Imagine if the referendum vote had gone the other way and all those Brexiters accepted that we stay in the EU for a generation, then another member state voted to leave. Would you expect the UK to then be banging the drum for preferential measures for the nation set to leave, even if that could threaten the UK's interests? I despair to see huge lorry parks being constructed in Kent and the swathes of red tape Brexit is introducing, and yet there are those who would still happily see things made worse with no-deal. I think that two separate things are going on here. It is important to you to prove that you've won the argument.....to leave the EU is a disastrous mistake. Personally I don't think that is important. We have left, irrespective of the arguments/ it doesn't really matter very much that you feel better by being right. Having left the important issue is that we succeed as a nation and take advantage of independendance. In that respect I don't think that the UK is being unreasonable in what it is asking for in respect of its future relationship with the EU. Presumably the ideal would be a free trade arrangement, without tariffs, giving access to both markets. Does the EU expect special conditions in respect of the fisheries policy and the " level playing field " ? You may think what you like John. It really is not about winning arguments- if I wanted to prove leaving is a disastrous mistake I would be rooting for no deal. When forecasts are suggesting no deal would be more expensive in the long run for the UK than Covid, anyone happy with that outcome is basically saying they would be happy to cause great hardship on some of the people of the UK to either (a) prove they were right that Brexit would be a disastrous mistake or (b) indulge in some self-gratifying symbolic flag-waving stick-it-to-the-EU nonsense. When even the Cornish and Scottish fishing industry are saying that we need to avoid no-deal I just hope that the talks do end with some agreement and a way forward. I am prepared for the UK to compromise to achieve that end, but suspect that many Brexiters are so entrenched in ensuring their personal expectations are delivered , any sort of compromise will not result in an end to the years of moaning, and they will soon be aligning themselves once again behind the national wrecking ball that is Farage.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Dec 4, 2020 20:17:50 GMT
I think that two separate things are going on here. It is important to you to prove that you've won the argument.....to leave the EU is a disastrous mistake. Personally I don't think that is important. We have left, irrespective of the arguments/ it doesn't really matter very much that you feel better by being right. Having left the important issue is that we succeed as a nation and take advantage of independendance. In that respect I don't think that the UK is being unreasonable in what it is asking for in respect of its future relationship with the EU. Presumably the ideal would be a free trade arrangement, without tariffs, giving access to both markets. Does the EU expect special conditions in respect of the fisheries policy and the " level playing field " ? You may think what you like John. It really is not about winning arguments- if I wanted to prove leaving is a disastrous mistake I would be rooting for no deal. When forecasts are suggesting no deal would be more expensive in the long run for the UK than Covid, anyone happy with that outcome is basically saying they would be happy to cause great hardship on some of the people of the UK to either (a) prove they were right that Brexit would be a disastrous mistake or (b) indulge in some self-gratifying symbolic flag-waving stick-it-to-the-EU nonsense. When even the Cornish and Scottish fishing industry are saying that we need to avoid no-deal I just hope that the talks do end with some agreement and a way forward. I am prepared for the UK to compromise to achieve that end, but suspect that many Brexiters are so entrenched in ensuring their personal expectations are delivered , any sort of compromise will not result in an end to the years of moaning, and they will soon be aligning themselves once again behind the national wrecking ball that is Farage. What sort of compromise do you think we should make? Perhaps the EU should compromise. Perhaps the French should come to terms with the fact that they don't control the fish in UK waters.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Dec 4, 2020 20:18:26 GMT
Barnier..... "After one week of intense negotiations in London, together with @davidghfrost, we agreed today that the conditions for an agreement are not met, due to significant divergences on level playing field, governance and fisheries".
So the EU says we can’t subsidise our industries without THEIR say so because we might be “too competitive” and we cannot control our fishing waters unless THEY say how much THEY can fish. And if we disagree it will be THEIR courts that decide.
I don't think it seems like two independent countries negotiating.
PS, I wonder if we could charge for the use of the English language.
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Dec 4, 2020 20:38:16 GMT
You may think what you like John. It really is not about winning arguments- if I wanted to prove leaving is a disastrous mistake I would be rooting for no deal. When forecasts are suggesting no deal would be more expensive in the long run for the UK than Covid, anyone happy with that outcome is basically saying they would be happy to cause great hardship on some of the people of the UK to either (a) prove they were right that Brexit would be a disastrous mistake or (b) indulge in some self-gratifying symbolic flag-waving stick-it-to-the-EU nonsense. When even the Cornish and Scottish fishing industry are saying that we need to avoid no-deal I just hope that the talks do end with some agreement and a way forward. I am prepared for the UK to compromise to achieve that end, but suspect that many Brexiters are so entrenched in ensuring their personal expectations are delivered , any sort of compromise will not result in an end to the years of moaning, and they will soon be aligning themselves once again behind the national wrecking ball that is Farage. What sort of compromise do you think we should make? Perhaps the EU should compromise. Perhaps the French should come to terms with the fact that they don't control the fish in UK waters. It's the UK choosing to leave . So many times we have been told that they need us more than we need them, so I'm sure they will compromise to an extent that aligns with the reality of that claim. I have said before I would compromise on fishing rights in order to get better trading conditions for the UK as a whole, which , ironically, might be better for the fishing industry itself, no matter how much people might reasonably think it's an important symbolic statement of our independence. From your comments I suspect you would rather more families across the UK suffer the economic consequences of no deal?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Dec 4, 2020 20:47:27 GMT
What sort of compromise do you think we should make? Perhaps the EU should compromise. Perhaps the French should come to terms with the fact that they don't control the fish in UK waters. It's the UK choosing to leave . So many times we have been told that they need us more than we need them, so I'm sure they will compromise to an extent that aligns with the reality of that claim. I have said before I would compromise on fishing rights in order to get better trading conditions for the UK as a whole, which , ironically, might be better for the fishing industry itself, no matter how much people might reasonably think it's an important symbolic statement of our independence. From your comments I suspect you would rather more families across the UK suffer the economic consequences of no deal? We indeed chose to leave. We have now left. So as 2 independent bodies we need to agree trading terms. It should not involve one party being asked to compromise its status as an independent country. What the EU are asking for is unreasonable, and no independent country would agree to it. If the boot was on the other foot some would accuse the UK of holding the other country to ransom. Your argument seems to be " they are bigger than us so we have to " compromise "/ come to heel"
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Dec 4, 2020 20:56:44 GMT
It's the UK choosing to leave . So many times we have been told that they need us more than we need them, so I'm sure they will compromise to an extent that aligns with the reality of that claim. I have said before I would compromise on fishing rights in order to get better trading conditions for the UK as a whole, which , ironically, might be better for the fishing industry itself, no matter how much people might reasonably think it's an important symbolic statement of our independence. From your comments I suspect you would rather more families across the UK suffer the economic consequences of no deal? We indeed chose to leave. We have now left. So as 2 independent bodies we need to agree trading terms. It should not involve one party being asked to compromise its status as an independent country. What the EU are asking for is unreasonable, and no independent country would agree to it. If the boot was on the other foot some would accuse the UK of holding the other country to ransom. Your argument seems to be " they are bigger than us so we have to " compromise "/ come to heel" I take that as an indirect way of saying yes you would accept families facing the economic consequences of no deal. www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-no-deal-damage-bank-of-england-coronavirus-andrew-bailey-b1760810.html
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Dec 4, 2020 21:01:59 GMT
We indeed chose to leave. We have now left. So as 2 independent bodies we need to agree trading terms. It should not involve one party being asked to compromise its status as an independent country. What the EU are asking for is unreasonable, and no independent country would agree to it. If the boot was on the other foot some would accuse the UK of holding the other country to ransom. Your argument seems to be " they are bigger than us so we have to " compromise "/ come to heel" I take that as an indirect way of saying yes you would accept families facing the economic consequences of no deal. www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-no-deal-damage-bank-of-england-coronavirus-andrew-bailey-b1760810.htmlIt's best to take it as it's written
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Post by stepenwoolf on Dec 4, 2020 21:09:15 GMT
Trade deals are all about compromise, and getting the best deal for you own interests, whilst not giving your competitor an advantage. Getting a no deal on the back of Covid is just unthinkable. Having two kids at an age about to start looking for work is a frightening prospect. Imagine being in their shoes being fucked over and having had no say in it.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Dec 4, 2020 21:15:27 GMT
Trade deals are all about compromise, and getting the best deal for you own interests, whilst not giving your competitor an advantage. Getting a no deal on the back of Covid is just unthinkable. Having two kids at an age about to start looking for work is a frightening prospect. Imagine being in their shoes being fucked over and having had no say in it. Depends what you compromise. I think the French should compromise. You are right about the future of the young though, particularly in light of the Coronavirus. We really have to start making decisions at home in the interests of of our young people.
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Post by stepenwoolf on Dec 4, 2020 21:19:52 GMT
For the future of my kids and the young I would happily compromise on the fishing if it gets a deal and saves/ creates more jobs than it sacrifices.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Dec 4, 2020 21:21:24 GMT
For the future of my kids and the young I would happily compromise on the fishing if it gets a deal and saves/ creates more jobs than it sacrifices. Do you mean compromise or being bullied into conforming. Giving in on fishing does not guarantee jobs for the young in the future.
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Post by thevoid on Dec 4, 2020 21:26:27 GMT
For the future of my kids and the young I would happily compromise on the fishing if it gets a deal and saves/ creates more jobs than it sacrifices. Do you mean compromise or being bullied into conforming. Giving in on fishing does not guarantee jobs for the young in the future. Seems a bit like protectionism to me.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Dec 4, 2020 21:28:31 GMT
Do you mean compromise or being bullied into conforming. Giving in on fishing does not guarantee jobs for the young in the future. Seems a bit like protectionism to me. It is. Seems like the French won't compromise. France warned Friday morning that it would not hesitate to veto if the text did not suit it, in particular if it threatened the future of its fishermen. "If there was an agreement that was not good (…) , we would oppose it" , said the French Secretary of State for European Affairs, Clément Beaune, on Europe 1 . With a veto? " Yes. Each country has the right of veto ” , he warned, repeating that the risk of a non-agreement “ exists ” and that “ we must prepare for it ” French Prime Minister Jean Castex also recalled Thursday that French fishing could not be "sacrificed as an adjustment variable" in the negotiations. Post-Brexit negotiations deadlocked: Boris Johnson and Ursula von der Leyen expected to help www.lemonde.fr/international/article/2020/12/04/les-negociations-post-brexit-dans-l-impasse-boris-johnson-et-ursula-von-der-leyen-attendus-a-la-rescousse_6062251_3210.html
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Post by stepenwoolf on Dec 4, 2020 21:29:10 GMT
John this isn’t the playground, at this level nobody bullies anybody, it’s just business. How do we get the best for our vested interests interests. The EU are looking after their interests we are looking after ours. Who has the most to lose is the question, and that is clearly us, I’m guessing, like me you won’t have as long to feel the pain like the next generations?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Dec 4, 2020 21:31:06 GMT
John this isn’t the playground, at this level nobody bullies anybody, it’s just business. How do we get the best for our vested interests interests. The EU are looking after their interests we are looking after ours. Who has the most to lose is the question, and that is clearly us, I’m guessing, like me you won’t have as long to feel the pain like the next generations? I'm more bothered about my children than I am about me. Why do you always presume that we have to compromise? You seem to advocate bullying.....which belongs to the playground
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