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Post by sheikhmomo on Dec 1, 2020 13:01:13 GMT
Bloody EU sticking to their rules and exposing these Tory bastards as liars. Much more to come as well as project fear becomes project real world and not Tory sunny upland bollocks. Still they'll be alright wont they? Those rules are pretty much the same the world over..... the brexit vote was cross party something you cant seem to get your head around, the implementation comes down to the tories and they will get any judgement at the ballot box. The funny thing is if the tories came up with a system allowing for unlimited movement of cheap labour to keep wages down to the benefit of multi national corporations your meltdown would be epic. I know it was cross party and contrary to your belief, I have never been against leaving. I'm against the continued lies and deliberate misleading of the Public which will end up with the poorest in society taking the biggest hit whilst the likes of Crispin Odious, the Victorian Ghost and others cash in. Whilst the campaigns were cross party this kind of pernicious deceit was born directly out of the office of Messrs Cummings, Banks and Gove and a pox on their all their corrupt houses.
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Post by maxplonk on Dec 1, 2020 15:23:19 GMT
And the British public backed gove š And they're all laughing now?
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Post by wagsastokie on Dec 1, 2020 15:27:30 GMT
Correct then the Eu can except we are independent sovereign nation and treat us the same as every other Nation Of course that would involve the Eu being reasonable and fair Something they seem reluctant to be But in this instance, is that not what they're doing? The holiday home stuff is just the normal rules for those outside the single market?[/ So why donāt they treat us the same as Canada which is outside the single market Not only do the Eu want the cherry on the cake they want to chose which fucking icing they have with the cake
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Post by wagsastokie on Dec 1, 2020 15:31:36 GMT
And the British public backed gove š And they're all laughing now? They will be when weāre finally totally free of the European cesspit And we can bask in the glorious sun of freedom
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 1, 2020 15:55:08 GMT
But in this instance, is that not what they're doing? The holiday home stuff is just the normal rules for those outside the single market?[/ So why donāt they treat us the same as Canada which is outside the single market Not only do the Eu want the cherry on the cake they want to chose which fucking icing they have with the cake Are the rules different for Canadians with second homes in the EU? I must've missed that, got a link?
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Post by wagsastokie on Dec 1, 2020 16:02:37 GMT
Are the rules different for Canadians with second homes in the EU? I must've missed that, got a link? You can deflect all you like The Eu wants to treat the the uk like a independent sovereign country for holiday homes Which to me is totally correct Yet unwilling to do the same in other matters Total hypocrisy by the Eu There shitting themselves that the uk will make a success of brexit and are gambling that the uk wonāt walk away and take the risk of no deal So why shouldnāt the uk have a Canada type deal
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 1, 2020 16:26:37 GMT
I'm not deflecting anything, you were the one who quoted me to try and talk about something different to what I was talking about because by your own admission there isn't an issue with the holiday homes thing?
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Post by maxplonk on Dec 1, 2020 16:51:17 GMT
And they're all laughing now? They will be when weāre finally totally free of the European cesspit And we can bask in the glorious sun of freedom Sometimes I think you actually believe the stuff you post. š¤
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Post by wagsastokie on Dec 1, 2020 16:55:31 GMT
I'm not deflecting anything, you were the one who quoted me to try and talk about something different to what I was talking about because by your own admission there isn't an issue with the holiday homes thing? All I was doing was pointing out the hypocrisy of the Euās negotiation stance
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Post by followyoudown on Dec 1, 2020 18:57:08 GMT
Those rules are pretty much the same the world over..... the brexit vote was cross party something you cant seem to get your head around, the implementation comes down to the tories and they will get any judgement at the ballot box. The funny thing is if the tories came up with a system allowing for unlimited movement of cheap labour to keep wages down to the benefit of multi national corporations your meltdown would be epic. I know it was cross party and contrary to your belief, I have never been against leaving. I'm against the continued lies and deliberate misleading of the Public which will end up with the poorest in society taking the biggest hit whilst the likes of Crispin Odious, the Victorian Ghost and others cash in. Whilst the campaigns were cross party this kind of pernicious deceit was born directly out of the office of Messrs Cummings, Banks and Gove and a pox on their all their corrupt houses. Typical emotive claptrap, there is no deceit as pointed out but blah blah blah poor people / rich people. It's a total strawman argument apart from the fact there was already proof pre pandemic that wages were rising for the lower paid, those rich people make money whether we are in the EU out of the EU or inbetween. Put up this proof of corruption because otherwise it just looks like a standard insult for people you don't like and I'm sure you can't have missed on the wall to wall coverage on the news Banks has forced one apology from huddys favourite russian conspiracy theorist Cadrwaller and will soon take a hefty defamation payout from her after she had to drop the truth defence on claims on russian funding as she had no proof as it didn't exist.
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Dec 1, 2020 20:23:44 GMT
Corbyn again ,you can't let it go can you ? I suggest you take a more questioning look at your false gods in the blue corner. I don't need too all politicians bend and manipulate the truth, once they deliver brexit they will be gone within a year or two and Javid, Sunak or one of the other more professional politicians will be in charge but thats by the by, the reference to corbyn is just to remind sheiky who seems to view himself as the moral conscience of the board just one of the things he spent years defending so its actually perfectly relevant. So if you are going to insert yourself in the middle of a conversation might be best if you learn to differentiate between your rear and the bendy bit of your arm It's refreshing to see you accept that Johnson , Gove & co are amateurs. This must be a worrying day for the circus.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Dec 1, 2020 21:24:43 GMT
I don't need too all politicians bend and manipulate the truth, once they deliver brexit they will be gone within a year or two and Javid, Sunak or one of the other more professional politicians will be in charge but thats by the by, the reference to corbyn is just to remind sheiky who seems to view himself as the moral conscience of the board just one of the things he spent years defending so its actually perfectly relevant. So if you are going to insert yourself in the middle of a conversation might be best if you learn to differentiate between your rear and the bendy bit of your arm Ā It's refreshing to see you accept that Johnson , Gove & co are amateurs. This must be a worrying day for the circus.Ā Given that we have left the EU, whether you agree with the decision or not......... just out of interest Foggy, do you hope that the EU and the UK arrive at a good relationship so that both can progress to each's mutual benefit? Shouldn't need to ask really.
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Dec 1, 2020 22:11:41 GMT
It's refreshing to see you accept that Johnson , Gove & co are amateurs. This must be a worrying day for the circus. Given that we have left the EU, whether you agree with the decision or not......... just out of interest Foggy, do you hope that the EU and the UK arrive at a good relationship so that both can progress to each's mutual benefit? Shouldn't need to ask really. Absolutely. From the time of the referendum result my hope has been that we can avoid the nonsense of a no-deal and have the closest possible working relationship in an effort to limit the damage done. It was inevitable that the EU would seek to protect the interests of its remaining members. Imagine if the referendum vote had gone the other way and all those Brexiters accepted that we stay in the EU for a generation, then another member state voted to leave. Would you expect the UK to then be banging the drum for preferential measures for the nation set to leave, even if that could threaten the UK's interests? I despair to see huge lorry parks being constructed in Kent and the swathes of red tape Brexit is introducing, and yet there are those who would still happily see things made worse with no-deal.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Dec 1, 2020 22:28:43 GMT
Absolutely. From the time of the referendum result my hope has been that we can avoid the nonsense of a no-deal and have the closest possible working relationship in an effort to limit the damage done. It was inevitable that the EU would seek to protect the interests of its remaining members. Imagine if the referendum vote had gone the other way and all those BrexitersĀ accepted that we stay in the EU for a generation, then another member state voted to leave. Would you expect the UK to thenĀ be banging the drum for preferential measures for the nation set to leave, even if that could threaten the UK's interests? I despair to see huge lorry parks being constructed in Kent and the swathes of red tape Brexit is introducing,Ā and yet there are those who would still happily see things made worse with no-deal. I'm pleased that you hope for the best for the UK. Obviously there may be upheaval as we leave the EU. I think that you are a bit premature with the damage. I don't expect preferential treatment just the acceptance of the UK as an independent nation and the respect as such. Following that logic , I presume it is best for the UK to fight its corner and not give preferential treatment to the EU in respect of the " level playing field" and the fisheries. It is possible to have a life outside the EU.....it might be better than you seem to hope it will be.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Dec 1, 2020 22:52:39 GMT
Given that we have left the EU, whether you agree with the decision or not......... just out of interest Foggy, do you hope that the EU and the UK arrive at a good relationship so that both can progress to each's mutual benefit? Shouldn't need to ask really. Absolutely. From the time of the referendum result my hope has been that we can avoid the nonsense of a no-deal and have the closest possible working relationship in an effort to limit the damage done. It was inevitable that the EU would seek to protect the interests of its remaining members. Imagine if the referendum vote had gone the other way and all those BrexitersĀ accepted that we stay in the EU for a generation, then another member state voted to leave. Would you expect the UK to thenĀ be banging the drum for preferential measures for the nation set to leave, even if that could threaten the UK's interests? I despair to see huge lorry parks being constructed in Kent and the swathes of red tape Brexit is introducing,Ā and yet there are those who would still happily see things made worse with no-deal. I think that two separate things are going on here. It is important to you to prove that you've won the argument.....to leave the EU is a disastrous mistake. Personally I don't think that is important. We have left, irrespective of the arguments/ it doesn't really matter very much that you feel better by being right. Having left the important issue is that we succeed as a nation and take advantage of independendance. In that respect I don't think that the UK is being unreasonable in what it is asking for in respect of its future relationship with the EU. Presumably the ideal would be a free trade arrangement, without tariffs, giving access to both markets. Does the EU expect special conditions in respect of the fisheries policy and the " level playing field " ?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Dec 1, 2020 23:08:06 GMT
Given that we have left the EU, whether you agree with the decision or not......... just out of interest Foggy, do you hope that the EU and the UK arrive at a good relationship so that both can progress to each's mutual benefit? Shouldn't need to ask really. Absolutely. From the time of the referendum result my hope has been that we can avoid the nonsense of a no-deal and have the closest possible working relationship in an effort to limit the damage done. It was inevitable that the EU would seek to protect the interests of its remaining members. Imagine if the referendum vote had gone the other way and all those BrexitersĀ accepted that we stay in the EU for a generation, then another member state voted to leave. Would you expect the UK to thenĀ be banging the drum for preferential measures for the nation set to leave, even if that could threaten the UK's interests? I despair to see huge lorry parks being constructed in Kent and the swathes of red tape Brexit is introducing,Ā and yet there are those who would still happily see things made worse with no-deal. In reality we have bigger concrete on going "disasters" occurring in respect of Debenhams, Arcadia and the economic impact of the Coronavirus to deal with....and to claim that Brexit makes things worse is simply more of a reflection of the difficulty in coming to terms with the fact that 17 m people voted to leave.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Dec 1, 2020 23:19:20 GMT
Absolutely. From the time of the referendum result my hope has been that we can avoid the nonsense of a no-deal and have the closest possible working relationship in an effort to limit the damage done. It was inevitable that the EU would seek to protect the interests of its remaining members. Imagine if the referendum vote had gone the other way and all those BrexitersĀ accepted that we stay in the EU for a generation, then another member state voted to leave. Would you expect the UK to thenĀ be banging the drum for preferential measures for the nation set to leave, even if that could threaten the UK's interests? I despair to see huge lorry parks being constructed in Kent and the swathes of red tape Brexit is introducing,Ā and yet there are those who would still happily see things made worse with no-deal. I think that two separate things are going on here. It is important to you to prove that you've won the argument.....to leave the EU is a disastrous mistake. Personally I don't think that is important. We have left, irrespective of the arguments/ it doesn't really matter very much that you feel better by being right. Having left the important issue is that we succeed as a nation and take advantage of independendance. In that respect I don't think that the UK is being unreasonable in what it is asking for in respect of its future relationship with the EU. Presumably the ideal would be a free trade arrangement, without tariffs, giving access to both markets. Does the EU expect special conditions in respect of the fisheries policy and the " level playing field " ? I'm not sure how you're still clinging to the notion that UK is acting in good faith, John, when the party in charge can't even negotiate with itself in good faith.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Dec 1, 2020 23:30:05 GMT
I think that two separate things are going on here. It is important to you to prove that you've won the argument.....to leave the EU is a disastrous mistake. Personally I don't think that is important. We have left, irrespective of the arguments/ it doesn't really matter very much that you feel better by being right. Having left the important issue is that we succeed as a nation and take advantage of independendance. In that respect I don't think that the UK is being unreasonable in what it is asking for in respect of its future relationship with the EU. Presumably the ideal would be a free trade arrangement, without tariffs, giving access to both markets. Does the EU expect special conditions in respect of the fisheries policy and the " level playing field " ? I'm not sure how you're still clinging to the notion that UK is acting in good faith, John, when the party in charge can't even negotiate with itself in good faith. I think that is the big outstanding issue Sheikh.....Will Boris hold firm and not compromise on the main principles of Brexit.....which everyone seems to understand, but some Remainers don't like to admit to....leave really does mean leave. The answer to that will become known by the end of the month. Frost seems sincere in what he is saying, and it is my opinion , from what I'm hearing that it is the EU who are not treating the UK as they would any other independent country with whom they want to trade. Obviously there are different opinions within the party, but they were elected in December 2019 on a promise to deliver Brexit, If they don't I indeed hope that they split. Brexit is bigger than party politics.
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Post by mrcoke on Dec 1, 2020 23:38:57 GMT
I remember watching a programme with Anthony Worrall-Thompon, Ben Cohen and another celebrity who went on a fishing trawler in Scotland and being pretty mortified by the rules and regulations surrounding fishing. Dead cod being tossed back into the sea sea to quotas, net sizes and if you want to add stunning fish into the mix (and I dont profess to know the pro's and con's) it made for all in all pretty sad viewing. However, not at one point in time did I then or even now think that the best thing we can do is sacrifice freedom of movement, access to the single market/Customs Union, begin erecting borders, risk our own Union and removing ourself from the biggest trading bloc in the world which includes our nearest and dearest. I didn't think it was worth it for an industry that contributes 0.12% of our GDP. Does the policy need reform? I would argue on the face of it it does, but without ever working a day in the industry and living in a city which is just about as far from the sea as you can get, I just can't summon enough animosity to think it is worth what is starting to happen and will continue to get worse. In terms of live animal transportation, again I would be asking what the most humane and safe to eat way is of transporting meat and to ensure that we do it to the highest standard we possibly can. But is it an issue the way we do it now? If the alternative is hormone injected beef of chlorinated chicken then I would say we're probably on the better path. If we're failing on the 2 above points we should have been pushing for change and reform within the EU, and voting for urosceptic xenophobic nationalists as MEP's wasn't really going to fix it. But the fishing point remains... 'giving up what we do, for 0.12' ...mental in my eyes. Fair enough reply everyone to there views I just belive that protecting the seas around the country from being damaged by unsustainable fishing practices And the abhorrent practice of transporting live animals for slaughter overseas
Is worth a lot more in reality than the cost on paper I understand that legislation will start to be brought forward later this week to stop the export of live animals which we were prohibited from doing under EU legislation. Another step in the right direction on our leaving the despicable EU regime. Unfortunately I have yet to see the government reverse the increase in VAT on solar panels that they were forced to do by the EU Court last year.
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Dec 1, 2020 23:46:20 GMT
Fair enough reply everyone to there views I just belive that protecting the seas around the country from being damaged by unsustainable fishing practices And the abhorrent practice of transporting live animals for slaughter overseas
Is worth a lot more in reality than the cost on paper I understand that legislation will start to be brought forward later this week to stop the export of live animals which we were prohibited from doing under EU legislation. Another step in the right direction on our leaving the despicable EU regime. Unfortunately I have yet to see the government reverse the increase in VAT on solar panels that they were forced to do by the EU Court last year. The Regime. š Solar panels makes a change from fish though, like spicing up the relationship.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Dec 3, 2020 9:33:12 GMT
Trumpian Britain
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Dec 3, 2020 10:48:17 GMT
The point for me Sheikhy is that the UK can make these decisions without reference to the EU, irrespective of what they PERMIT. The EU does indeed ALLOW member states to do all sorts of things under emergency procedures, such as closing their borders. I don't think it would ALLOW things of which "it" (whoever makes the decisions ) does not approve. The bit that Rees-Mogg is really referring to is...... ( from the BBC) "The regulation of human medicines is an area of shared competence between the EU and Member States under article 4 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the EU (TFEU)," it reads. "But in light of the EU's comprehensive exercise of the competence, Member States are precluded from exercising the competence nationally." It is true that, in general, regulation of new medicines is done on an EU-wide basis. But that does not take account of the emergency provisions in EU law which Dr Raine refers to". I think it is a bit of a none story , either way, personally. I just hope the vaccine is effective and people worldwide are somehow given access....I'm sure that we can agree on that.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Dec 3, 2020 11:27:31 GMT
The point for me Sheikhy is that the UK can make these decisions without reference to the EU, irrespective of what they PERMIT. The EU does indeed ALLOW member states to do all sorts of things under emergency procedures, such as closing their borders. I don't htink it would ALLOW things of which "it" (whoever makes the decisions ) does not approve. The bit that Rees-Mogg is really referring to is...... ( from the BBC) "The regulation of human medicines is an area of shared competence between the EU and Member States under article 4 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the EU (TFEU)," it reads. "But in light of the EU's comprehensive exercise of the competence, Member States are precluded from exercising the competence nationally." It is true that, in general, regulation of new medicines is done on an EU-wide basis. But that does not take account of the emergency provisions in EU law which Dr Raine refers to". I think it is a bit of a none story , either way, personally. I just hope the vaccine is effective and people worldwide are somehow given access....I'm sure that we can agree on that. Mogg's sole aim here is to mislead people and worse still imply EU inertia kills people. It's the Politics of the gutter. Still the Victorian Ghost has those short positions on a post Brexit meltdown to protect. No wonder he's saying 'look over there'.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Dec 3, 2020 11:30:37 GMT
The point for me Sheikhy is that the UK can make these decisions without reference to the EU, irrespective of what they PERMIT. The EU does indeed ALLOW member states to do all sorts of things under emergency procedures, such as closing their borders. I don't htink it would ALLOW things of which "it" (whoever makes the decisions ) does not approve. The bit that Rees-Mogg is really referring to is...... ( from the BBC) "The regulation of human medicines is an area of shared competence between the EU and Member States under article 4 of the Treaty on the Functioning of the EU (TFEU)," it reads. "But in light of the EU's comprehensive exercise of the competence, Member States are precluded from exercising the competence nationally." It is true that, in general, regulation of new medicines is done on an EU-wide basis. But that does not take account of the emergency provisions in EU law which Dr Raine refers to". I think it is a bit of a none story , either way, personally. I just hope the vaccine is effective and people worldwide are somehow given access....I'm sure that we can agree on that. Mogg's sole aim here is to mislead people and worse still imply EU inertia kills people. It's the Politics of the gutter. Still the Victorian Ghost has those short positions on a post Brexit meltdown to protect. No wonder he's saying 'look over there'. Irrespective of Moggy as a person, I think he is fundamentally correct on the need for EU approval....except of course when permitted to do so in emergency situations. In today's politics there seems to be many people to dislike and few to admire.
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Post by followyoudown on Dec 3, 2020 11:54:28 GMT
Mogg's sole aim here is to mislead people and worse still imply EU inertia kills people. It's the Politics of the gutter. Still the Victorian Ghost has those short positions on a post Brexit meltdown to protect. No wonder he's saying 'look over there'. Irrespective of Moggy as a person, I think he is fundamentally correct on the need for EU approval....except of course when permitted to do so in emergency situations. In today's politics there seems to be many people to dislike and few to admire. That is my understanding the EU have taken the decision to act as one and wait for full authorisation so if we were still in the EU we'd be waiting. Its good to see sheikys new commitment to truth and being against misleading people in politics do you know the final price we got for selling the NHS to the USA as Labour claimed would happen at the last election ?
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Post by mrcoke on Dec 3, 2020 12:14:13 GMT
I don't know whether the EU exerts any authority over individual countries policy on the use of a vaccine.
What I do know is the the EU is committed to ever closer union and greater autonomy for central control from Brussels. This is being achieved by a succession of treaties which gradually emascualate the independance in individual nations. Certainly the day will come when many of the decisions made by individual countries during the pandemic will be made in Brussels and implemented via an EU executive.
There is talk of EU Autonomy which is presently dressed up as a common approach to the external world, such a an EU army, and a common approach to foreign policy. This is led by the French and presently resisted by Sweden and a few of the smaller countries who want to retain their traditional neutrality.
If I was living in the EU I would be worried about that as some EU countries have used their army against their own people in the recent past. Something that is abhorrent to the British and did not even happen during Thatcher's battle with the miners and the 80s inner city riots. Correct me if I'm wrong, but apart from war time, the last time Britain used the army against its own people was in the 1920s by Churchill and others, nearly a century ago.
Certainly the EU will be taking steps to dissuade any other countries ( or peoples like the Basques) from leaving the EU or separating in any way, by ensuring they are locked into the EU financially and economically and even eventually politically. Article 50 will be amended in due course to ensure a country can only leave the EU if the EU permits. There will be some who scoff at that remark, like I scoffed at my fathers prediction of EU control in the 1970s, but it will come to happen, if the EU actually survives and isn't split apart by the Euro, the desperate economic state of southern European countries, or the disillusionment of countries seeing their countries decay by young people leaving to find work in Central Europe.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Dec 3, 2020 12:52:09 GMT
And as for this fucking cretin, it's the sort of shit you hear spouted at a Tommy Robinson Rally!
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 3, 2020 12:57:07 GMT
I don't know whether the EU exerts any authority over individual countries policy on the use of a vaccine. What I do know is the the EU is committed to ever closer union and greater autonomy for central control from Brussels. This is being achieved by a succession of treaties which gradually emascualate the independance in individual nations. Certainly the day will come when many of the decisions made by individual countries during the pandemic will be made in Brussels and implemented via an EU executive. There is talk of EU Autonomy which is presently dressed up as a common approach to the external world, such a an EU army, and a common approach to foreign policy. This is led by the French and presently resisted by Sweden and a few of the smaller countries who want to retain their traditional neutrality. If I was living in the EU I would be worried about that as some EU countries have used their army against their own people in the recent past. Something that is abhorrent to the British and did not even happen during Thatcher's battle with the miners and the 80s inner city riots. Correct me if I'm wrong, but apart from war time, the last time Britain used the army against its own people was in the 1920s by Churchill and others, nearly a century ago. Certainly the EU will be taking steps to dissuade any other countries ( or peoples like the Basques) from leaving the EU or separating in any way, by ensuring they are locked into the EU financially and economically and even eventually politically. Article 50 will be amended in due course to ensure a country can only leave the EU if the EU permits. There will be some who scoff at that remark, like I scoffed at my fathers prediction of EU control in the 1970s, but it will come to happen, if the EU actually survives and isn't split apart by the Euro, the desperate economic state of southern European countries, or the disillusionment of countries seeing their countries decay by young people leaving to find work in Central Europe. Since you asked, I'm quite happy to correct your wrongness. All those incidents of the British army being used against British people in Northern Ireland for decades didn't happen presumably? In fact, if any European country has deployed its own army against its own citizens more frequently and routinely than the UK, I'd be interested to hear about them. Possibly Spain under Franco's dictatorship, but that ended in 1975, so I'd doubt it frankly. Go on, tell me why it's different because it's the UK!
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Post by followyoudown on Dec 3, 2020 13:01:46 GMT
And as for this fucking cretin, it's the sort of shit you hear spouted at a Tommy Robinson Rally! Tommy talks alot about medical regulators and clinicians at his rallies ? I find that surprising myself but good to see he has moved on from the muslim rape gangs at last or you know is it possible you are talking and I put this as delicately as possible complete bollocks.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Dec 3, 2020 13:12:50 GMT
And as for this fucking cretin, it's the sort of shit you hear spouted at a Tommy Robinson Rally! Tommy talks alot about medical regulators and clinicians at his rallies ? I find that surprising myself but good to see he has moved on from the muslim rape gangs at last or you know is it possible you are talking and I put this as delicately as possible complete bollocks. "much better than the French have, much better than the Belgians have, much better than the Americans have. That doesnāt surprise me at all because weāre a much better country than every single one of them, arenāt we.ā Best country in the facking world!
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