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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 30, 2020 16:44:13 GMT
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Nov 30, 2020 20:05:06 GMT
Surely that can't be right.......
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Post by tuum on Nov 30, 2020 20:54:52 GMT
I am in Italy at the moment and was looking at staying here until April 2021 but realised I would fall foul of the 90day rule that comes into being on 1 Jan so I will now have to look at alternative options. It seems the UK allows EU citizens to spend 6 months in any one year consecutively whereas the EU is saying you can only spend 6 months in EU if you do it in 2 stints of max 3mths per 6 month period. So, as I understand it, both states allow entry for 180d in total but the UK allows you to do it in one visit whereas the EU requires at least 2no visits set 3months apart. The UK has the option of mirroring the more restrictive EU requirements if it wants to. Alternatively, the EU can relax their rule and mirror the UK requlation. I am not sure which other countries are allowed 90d in a 6 month period without a visa for entry to the EU - US, Canada,Australia,NZ, Japan, Singapore etc? Clearly, if these other countries have to satisfy this requirement then the EU seemingly wants to treat the UK as similar without any recognition of the geographic distance. No problem with that logic but then the same logic does not follow with the EU when it comes to trade negotiations where they clearly do recognise the UK geographical proximity and want to put in controls to ensure the UK is not more competitive. As I said, I don't know what the EU visitor policy is for other 'friendly' nations so the above may not be relevant anyway. I don't see what the fuss is about. The current EU rule will impact a few thousand people. They can still spend 6 months of the year in their holiday homes (any more than that and they would lose UK residency status), they just need to split their time up which is what I suspect 90% of them do anyway. It would be nice if the rules between the two were identical but it is up to the UK Govt to decide how they wish to handle this anomaly. They may wish to see how negotiations on other issues pan out before changing the travel rules for EU citizens wishing to come to the UK. The other alternative is to get a visa each year which will likely be available electronically for £50 and take an hour of your time once a year - I think the UK and the EU have bigger issues to sort out than this one. Edit: Just seen on the Daily Mail link that long stay visas for France will cost 99euros and Spain 80euros.
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 30, 2020 21:48:53 GMT
I am sorry the EU have taken this attitude and choose to penalise those Europhiles who have invested in a second/holiday/ retirement home and spend their money in the EU, but it it just what one might expect. I have neighbours who spend a lot of time in their Spanish home which will now cost them £100 pa to spend over 90 days away, which is a lot per day if they spend 100 days there. But my real sympathy is for the fishing industry. They have seen their industry decimated since joining Europe, communities like Peterhead turned into semi ghost towns, half the fishing fleet lost in the last 30 years during which time the UK has turned from a major exporter of fish to an island surrounded by bountiful seas and a net importer of fish! A fisherman's earnings are highly variable and they can come in with a bumper catch, but on the average wage of circa £30,000 pa, I doubt many have holiday homes in Spain. facts4eu.org/news/2020_jun_filleting_eu
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 30, 2020 21:59:55 GMT
Surely that can't be right....... A liar and a charlatan.
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Post by wagsastokie on Nov 30, 2020 22:54:08 GMT
Ahh bless their little cotton socks I wouldn’t mind being in the position where I could only stop in my holiday home for three months I bet there in shock with there beloved EU acting unreasonable
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Dec 1, 2020 0:36:45 GMT
Ahh bless their little cotton socks I wouldn’t mind being in the position where I could only stop in my holiday home for three months I bet there in shock with there beloved EU acting unreasonable Yeah I've got zero sympathy for them in fairness.
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Dec 1, 2020 6:12:50 GMT
I am sorry the EU have taken this attitude and choose to penalise those Europhiles who have invested in a second/holiday/ retirement home and spend their money in the EU, but it it just what one might expect. I have neighbours who spend a lot of time in their Spanish home which will now cost them £100 pa to spend over 90 days away, which is a lot per day if they spend 100 days there. But my real sympathy is for the fishing industry. They have seen their industry decimated since joining Europe, communities like Peterhead turned into semi ghost towns, half the fishing fleet lost in the last 30 years during which time the UK has turned from a major exporter of fish to an island surrounded by bountiful seas and a net importer of fish! A fisherman's earnings are highly variable and they can come in with a bumper catch, but on the average wage of circa £30,000 pa, I doubt many have holiday homes in Spain. facts4eu.org/news/2020_jun_filleting_euThe EU hasn't chosen to penalise anyone. It's the existing rules for people in nations outside the Single Market. It's what people voted for.
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Dec 1, 2020 6:14:13 GMT
I am in Italy at the moment and was looking at staying here until April 2021 but realised I would fall foul of the 90day rule that comes into being on 1 Jan so I will now have to look at alternative options. It seems the UK allows EU citizens to spend 6 months in any one year consecutively whereas the EU is saying you can only spend 6 months in EU if you do it in 2 stints of max 3mths per 6 month period. So, as I understand it, both states allow entry for 180d in total but the UK allows you to do it in one visit whereas the EU requires at least 2no visits set 3months apart. The UK has the option of mirroring the more restrictive EU requirements if it wants to. Alternatively, the EU can relax their rule and mirror the UK requlation. I am not sure which other countries are allowed 90d in a 6 month period without a visa for entry to the EU - US, Canada,Australia,NZ, Japan, Singapore etc? Clearly, if these other countries have to satisfy this requirement then the EU seemingly wants to treat the UK as similar without any recognition of the geographic distance. No problem with that logic but then the same logic does not follow with the EU when it comes to trade negotiations where they clearly do recognise the UK geographical proximity and want to put in controls to ensure the UK is not more competitive. As I said, I don't know what the EU visitor policy is for other 'friendly' nations so the above may not be relevant anyway. I don't see what the fuss is about. The current EU rule will impact a few thousand people. They can still spend 6 months of the year in their holiday homes (any more than that and they would lose UK residency status), they just need to split their time up which is what I suspect 90% of them do anyway. It would be nice if the rules between the two were identical but it is up to the UK Govt to decide how they wish to handle this anomaly. They may wish to see how negotiations on other issues pan out before changing the travel rules for EU citizens wishing to come to the UK. The other alternative is to get a visa each year which will likely be available electronically for £50 and take an hour of your time once a year - I think the UK and the EU have bigger issues to sort out than this one. Edit: Just seen on the Daily Mail link that long stay visas for France will cost 99euros and Spain 80euros. Correct, the EU & UK have bigger issues , it's the Daily Mail readers who are furious.
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Post by foster on Dec 1, 2020 6:19:06 GMT
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 1, 2020 7:34:48 GMT
I am sorry the EU have taken this attitude and choose to penalise those Europhiles who have invested in a second/holiday/ retirement home and spend their money in the EU, but it it just what one might expect. I have neighbours who spend a lot of time in their Spanish home which will now cost them £100 pa to spend over 90 days away, which is a lot per day if they spend 100 days there. But my real sympathy is for the fishing industry. They have seen their industry decimated since joining Europe, communities like Peterhead turned into semi ghost towns, half the fishing fleet lost in the last 30 years during which time the UK has turned from a major exporter of fish to an island surrounded by bountiful seas and a net importer of fish! A fisherman's earnings are highly variable and they can come in with a bumper catch, but on the average wage of circa £30,000 pa, I doubt many have holiday homes in Spain. facts4eu.org/news/2020_jun_filleting_euThe EU hasn't chosen to penalise anyone. It's the existing rules for people in nations outside the Single Market. It's what people voted for. And knew they were voting for! But, it's really the bullying EU being freshly unreasonable again. Always someone else's fault, remember!
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 1, 2020 7:39:08 GMT
I am sorry the EU have taken this attitude and choose to penalise those Europhiles who have invested in a second/holiday/ retirement home and spend their money in the EU, but it it just what one might expect. I have neighbours who spend a lot of time in their Spanish home which will now cost them £100 pa to spend over 90 days away, which is a lot per day if they spend 100 days there. But my real sympathy is for the fishing industry. They have seen their industry decimated since joining Europe, communities like Peterhead turned into semi ghost towns, half the fishing fleet lost in the last 30 years during which time the UK has turned from a major exporter of fish to an island surrounded by bountiful seas and a net importer of fish! A fisherman's earnings are highly variable and they can come in with a bumper catch, but on the average wage of circa £30,000 pa, I doubt many have holiday homes in Spain. facts4eu.org/news/2020_jun_filleting_euI wonder what impact the new farming payments which promise prioritising environmental stewardship over food production (a good idea in principle) will mean for the volume of food we import/export, food standards and prices?
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Post by wagsastokie on Dec 1, 2020 8:42:04 GMT
The EU hasn't chosen to penalise anyone. It's the existing rules for people in nations outside the Single Market. It's what people voted for. And knew they were voting for! But, it's really the bullying EU being freshly unreasonable again. Always someone else's fault, remember! No it’s not the Eu bullying again it’s just the Eu showing it’s usual double standards It wants to treat the uk as a independent country where residence is concerned But not for fishing and governance
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Post by maxplonk on Dec 1, 2020 9:34:34 GMT
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Post by mrcoke on Dec 1, 2020 10:05:24 GMT
I am sorry the EU have taken this attitude and choose to penalise those Europhiles who have invested in a second/holiday/ retirement home and spend their money in the EU, but it it just what one might expect. I have neighbours who spend a lot of time in their Spanish home which will now cost them £100 pa to spend over 90 days away, which is a lot per day if they spend 100 days there. But my real sympathy is for the fishing industry. They have seen their industry decimated since joining Europe, communities like Peterhead turned into semi ghost towns, half the fishing fleet lost in the last 30 years during which time the UK has turned from a major exporter of fish to an island surrounded by bountiful seas and a net importer of fish! A fisherman's earnings are highly variable and they can come in with a bumper catch, but on the average wage of circa £30,000 pa, I doubt many have holiday homes in Spain. facts4eu.org/news/2020_jun_filleting_euThe EU hasn't chosen to penalise anyone. It's the existing rules for people in nations outside the Single Market. It's what people voted for. I believe they have chosen to penalise. There are many thousands of British citizens who have invested in second homes and spend a lot of time at them spending their money. Name another country outside the EU that does it. I would expect the EU to grant the same rights to EU citizens that the UK gives to Irish citizens. But I doubt they will. Whereas the UK government has been pro-active in granting rights to Swiss citizens in the UK. The longer this saga of the UK leaving the EU goers on the more I am sure the UK did the right thing to leave.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 1, 2020 10:24:22 GMT
The EU hasn't chosen to penalise anyone. It's the existing rules for people in nations outside the Single Market. It's what people voted for. I believe they have chosen to penalise. There are many thousands of British citizens who have invested in second homes and spend a lot of time at them spending their money. Name another country outside the EU that does it. I would expect the EU to grant the same rights to EU citizens that the UK gives to Irish citizens. But I doubt they will. Whereas the UK government has been pro-active in granting rights to Swiss citizens in the UK. The longer this saga of the UK leaving the EU goers on the more I am sure the UK did the right thing to leave. Why would you 'expect' that? Why wouldn't you expect the existing rules to apply to us too, once we'd left? As mentioned, that's what people voted for.
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Post by mrcoke on Dec 1, 2020 11:07:50 GMT
I believe they have chosen to penalise. There are many thousands of British citizens who have invested in second homes and spend a lot of time at them spending their money. Name another country outside the EU that does it. I would expect the EU to grant the same rights to EU citizens that the UK gives to Irish citizens. But I doubt they will. Whereas the UK government has been pro-active in granting rights to Swiss citizens in the UK. The longer this saga of the UK leaving the EU goers on the more I am sure the UK did the right thing to leave. Why would you 'expect' that? Why wouldn't you expect the existing rules to apply to us too, once we'd left? As mentioned, that's what people voted for. I would expect it because I would expect us to be an exceptional case, just as the UK gives exceptional rights to Irish citizens. It is in the interests of the EU for UK citizens to be given exceptional rights. There are lots of countries/states/regions which are not members of the EU whose citizens have special rights in the EU. The EU are clearly set on a path of punishing the UK and UK citizens for leaving and is doing anything it can to damage the UK's future success to dissuade other countries from leaving. It will fail, just as the common currency will fail. There are lots of special arrangements between the EU and other non EU countries and there are many that the UK has shared in as an EU member that could easily be extended to the UK as a none member. That will happen in time when the EU comes to accept that the UK is now a sovereign country.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 1, 2020 11:17:36 GMT
So now we get down to the crux of it!
Leavers want the UK to be considered a special case and get exceptional treatment! To be fair, the EU has been doing that over numerous treaty opt-outs for the UK for many years, (contrary to the bullying and penalising us stance that most Brexiteers like to imagine) so I suppose there's some history to this "have cake and eat it" approach.
Perhaps the EU has finally had enough? The UK chose to leave so it will have to put up with the consequences, regardless of whether it likes them or not. Hopefully, a deal can be reached which minimises the damage to both the UK and the EU but it's a bit naive to expect special treatment, just because you want it. It's a bit like taking your ball away because you're not winning any more.
People have been predicting the collapse of the EU since it started, and never more frequently than in the last four years. Likewise the common currency. Both still there last time I looked! I expect you'll see the £ worth less than the euro in a few years' time.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 1, 2020 11:23:37 GMT
Why would you 'expect' that? Why wouldn't you expect the existing rules to apply to us too, once we'd left? As mentioned, that's what people voted for. I would expect it because I would expect us to be an exceptional case, just as the UK gives exceptional rights to Irish citizens. It is in the interests of the EU for UK citizens to be given exceptional rights. There are lots of countries/states/regions which are not members of the EU whose citizens have special rights in the EU. The EU are clearly set on a path of punishing the UK and UK citizens for leaving and is doing anything it can to damage the UK's future success to dissuade other countries from leaving. It will fail, just as the common currency will fail. There are lots of special arrangements between the EU and other non EU countries and there are many that the UK has shared in as an EU member that could easily be extended to the UK as a none member. That will happen in time when the EU comes to accept that the UK is now a sovereign country. So you want us to leave but continue to enjoy perks and benefits and 'special treatment' and it's the EU who are to blame if they don't? Why should they? This is the path we've chosen. We're not owed any favours. People who 'knew what they voted for' should be fine with the consequences.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Dec 1, 2020 11:25:13 GMT
Indeed. And the real tragedy is that the US has now got rid of their lying buffoon and can start to put America back to some semblance of respectable, calm, responsible government whereas we're now stuck with the consequences of our lying buffoonery for decades...
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Post by wagsastokie on Dec 1, 2020 11:31:20 GMT
And the British public backed gove 😁
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Post by wagsastokie on Dec 1, 2020 11:35:05 GMT
I would expect it because I would expect us to be an exceptional case, just as the UK gives exceptional rights to Irish citizens. It is in the interests of the EU for UK citizens to be given exceptional rights. There are lots of countries/states/regions which are not members of the EU whose citizens have special rights in the EU. The EU are clearly set on a path of punishing the UK and UK citizens for leaving and is doing anything it can to damage the UK's future success to dissuade other countries from leaving. It will fail, just as the common currency will fail. There are lots of special arrangements between the EU and other non EU countries and there are many that the UK has shared in as an EU member that could easily be extended to the UK as a none member. That will happen in time when the EU comes to accept that the UK is now a sovereign country. So you want us to leave but continue to enjoy perks and benefits and 'special treatment' and it's the EU who are to blame if they don't? Why should they? This is the path we've chosen. We're not owed any favours. People who 'knew what they voted for' should be fine with the consequences. Correct then the Eu can except we are independent sovereign nation and treat us the same as every other Nation Of course that would involve the Eu being reasonable and fair Something they seem reluctant to be
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Dec 1, 2020 11:43:11 GMT
So you want us to leave but continue to enjoy perks and benefits and 'special treatment' and it's the EU who are to blame if they don't? Why should they? This is the path we've chosen. We're not owed any favours. People who 'knew what they voted for' should be fine with the consequences. Correct then the Eu can except we are independent sovereign nation and treat us the same as every other Nation Of course that would involve the Eu being reasonable and fair Something they seem reluctant to be But in this instance, is that not what they're doing? The holiday home stuff is just the normal rules for those outside the single market?
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Post by followyoudown on Dec 1, 2020 12:10:35 GMT
Surely that can't be right....... A liar and a charlatan. Self diagnosing again ? It doesn't affect people living in the EU who are legally resident there, people who want to holiday there for more than 3 months at a time have to get a visa hardly draconian works perfectly well for people going to USA, Australia and many other places.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Dec 1, 2020 12:12:32 GMT
Self diagnosing again ? It doesn't affect people living in the EU who are legally resident there, people who want to holiday there for more than 3 months at a time have to get a visa hardly draconian works perfectly well for people going to USA, Australia and many other places. He clearly (and in my opinion deliberately) mislead that woman in the video. Defending the indefensible.....as usual
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Post by followyoudown on Dec 1, 2020 12:22:25 GMT
Self diagnosing again ? It doesn't affect people living in the EU who are legally resident there, people who want to holiday there for more than 3 months at a time have to get a visa hardly draconian works perfectly well for people going to USA, Australia and many other places. He clearly (and in my opinion deliberately) mislead that woman in the video. Defending the indefensible.....as usual Yes definitely pulling the wool over her eyes when he says if you are legally and ordinarily resident in another country all your rights are protected regardless of whether the Uk is in the EU, thats a fact its also why expat brits live in usa, canada, australia and many other places without the UK paying £350 million a week If that woman wants to live in france when she retires she needs to apply for citizenship or permanent residency, he didn't tell her that but then he didn't tell her breath in breatg out either and she managed to work that out.... The whole defending guff doesnt really work when you spend weeks arguing over which murderers grave racist grandpa visited as a guest of hamas but crack on.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Dec 1, 2020 12:29:00 GMT
He clearly (and in my opinion deliberately) mislead that woman in the video. Defending the indefensible.....as usual Yes definitely pulling the wool over her eyes when he says if you are legally and ordinarily resident in another country all your rights are protected regardless of whether the Uk is in the EU, thats a fact its also why expat brits live in usa, canada, australia and many other places without the UK paying £350 million a week If that woman wants to live in france when she retires she needs to apply for citizenship or permanent residency, he didn't tell her that but then he didn't tell her breath in breatg out either and she managed to work that out.... The whole defending guff doesnt really work when you spend weeks arguing over which murderers grave racist grandpa visited as a guest of hamas but crack on. Bloody EU sticking to their rules and exposing these Tory bastards as liars. Much more to come as well as project fear becomes project real world and not Tory sunny upland bollocks. Still they'll be alright wont they?
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Dec 1, 2020 12:30:40 GMT
He clearly (and in my opinion deliberately) mislead that woman in the video. Defending the indefensible.....as usual Yes definitely pulling the wool over her eyes when he says if you are legally and ordinarily resident in another country all your rights are protected regardless of whether the Uk is in the EU, thats a fact its also why expat brits live in usa, canada, australia and many other places without the UK paying £350 million a week If that woman wants to live in france when she retires she needs to apply for citizenship or permanent residency, he didn't tell her that but then he didn't tell her breath in breatg out either and she managed to work that out.... The whole defending guff doesnt really work when you spend weeks arguing over which murderers grave racist grandpa visited as a guest of hamas but crack on. Corbyn again ,you can't let it go can you ? I suggest you take a more questioning look at your false gods in the blue corner.
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Post by followyoudown on Dec 1, 2020 12:39:32 GMT
Yes definitely pulling the wool over her eyes when he says if you are legally and ordinarily resident in another country all your rights are protected regardless of whether the Uk is in the EU, thats a fact its also why expat brits live in usa, canada, australia and many other places without the UK paying £350 million a week If that woman wants to live in france when she retires she needs to apply for citizenship or permanent residency, he didn't tell her that but then he didn't tell her breath in breatg out either and she managed to work that out.... The whole defending guff doesnt really work when you spend weeks arguing over which murderers grave racist grandpa visited as a guest of hamas but crack on. Bloody EU sticking to their rules and exposing these Tory bastards as liars. Much more to come as well as project fear becomes project real world and not Tory sunny upland bollocks. Still they'll be alright wont they? Those rules are pretty much the same the world over..... the brexit vote was cross party something you cant seem to get your head around, the implementation comes down to the tories and they will get any judgement at the ballot box. The funny thing is if the tories came up with a system allowing for unlimited movement of cheap labour to keep wages down to the benefit of multi national corporations your meltdown would be epic.
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Post by followyoudown on Dec 1, 2020 12:46:29 GMT
Yes definitely pulling the wool over her eyes when he says if you are legally and ordinarily resident in another country all your rights are protected regardless of whether the Uk is in the EU, thats a fact its also why expat brits live in usa, canada, australia and many other places without the UK paying £350 million a week If that woman wants to live in france when she retires she needs to apply for citizenship or permanent residency, he didn't tell her that but then he didn't tell her breath in breatg out either and she managed to work that out.... The whole defending guff doesnt really work when you spend weeks arguing over which murderers grave racist grandpa visited as a guest of hamas but crack on. Corbyn again ,you can't let it go can you ? I suggest you take a more questioning look at your false gods in the blue corner. I don't need too all politicians bend and manipulate the truth, once they deliver brexit they will be gone within a year or two and Javid, Sunak or one of the other more professional politicians will be in charge but thats by the by, the reference to corbyn is just to remind sheiky who seems to view himself as the moral conscience of the board just one of the things he spent years defending so its actually perfectly relevant. So if you are going to insert yourself in the middle of a conversation might be best if you learn to differentiate between your rear and the bendy bit of your arm
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