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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 7, 2020 15:32:53 GMT
What that article shows, Coke, is that the UK has done very nicely economically during its membership of the EU.
Now, no-one is saying that that relative success is entirely due to that membership. No doubt our own economic policies have played their own part, although that in itself is nothing if not ironic, since, at the very least, it rather undermines the sovereignty argument about endless interference in our own law-making processes and inability to run our own domestic affairs! It also calls into question your own, much quoted, insistence that, in your own business experience, it's only the UK that has ever abided by the EU's directives and that other countries simply ignore them (not backed up by infringement stats incidentally) - if so, perhaps they should've paid more heed to them! As far as the economy is concerned at least, membership (with all the endless interference!) doesn't appear to have had a negative impact, quite possibly the opposite! At least now we'll be able to compare similar data once we're fully out of the EU and see how things have changed. That statement is perfectly true. Where we differ is, you believe the UK has done very nicely because of UK membership, whereas I believe the UK has done very nicely despite EU membership. As regards UK economic performance once we're fully out of the EU, I fully expect a downturn in the short term whilst UK adjusts to the change in circumstances. The economic effects of the pandemic could totally obscure those of leaving the UK. Personally I believe the Eurozone is heading into very difficult times. Things have not got better since this article was written: blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2020/04/22/italys-endgame-and-the-future-of-the-eurozone/Of course you think that. Anyone who doesn't like the EU and voted to leave will always go down the route of "ah, but imagine how good the UK GDP figures might have been if we hadn't been in the EU". It's the same argument you hear from dyed in the wool Tories who don't like the fact that their government is so inept and resort to imagining how bad a Labour govt would be to cheer themselves up a bit. It's the same fatuous argument. The facts are, as that article showed, that the UK did very well out of it's time in the EU and the single market. No one said that was the only reason for our relative success, but to try to claim we'd have done even better outside is based on not much more than supposition, instead of actual data.
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Post by dutchstokie on Nov 7, 2020 15:39:11 GMT
Grow up and stop posting fake news that has been debunked numerous times. I'll allow you the last word if you reply back, as I'm watching the match. It's about time admin cracked down on people posting links to fake news (and yes, I apply that to both left and right wing sources). Your constant stream of misinformation from your 'confirmation bias' sources is ruining threads. What a load of old shit
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Post by thevoid on Nov 7, 2020 16:07:20 GMT
44 Retweets and 85 likes, says it all. He'd get more responses if he put a video of a cat falling off a chair or something.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 7, 2020 17:00:20 GMT
44 Retweets and 85 likes, says it all. He'd get more responses if he put a video of a cat falling off a chair or something. Good to see the Gammonati in a panic....here comes the abuse, awaiting deflection.
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Post by thevoid on Nov 7, 2020 17:49:27 GMT
44 Retweets and 85 likes, says it all. He'd get more responses if he put a video of a cat falling off a chair or something. Good to see the Gammonati in a panic....here comes the abuse, awaiting deflection. No abuse here. You're the one throwing daft, pointless names like gammon around and getting all antsy because I've not responded to you. Ironically, despite the gammon thing, I've probably got darker skin than you. Do carry on though 😂
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Post by wagsastokie on Nov 7, 2020 18:02:24 GMT
Grow up and stop posting fake news that has been debunked numerous times. I'll allow you the last word if you reply back, as I'm watching the match. It's about time admin cracked down on people posting links to fake news (and yes, I apply that to both left and right wing sources). Your constant stream of misinformation from your 'confirmation bias' sources is ruining threads. I’d of thought with your record of backing losers you would of Learnt how to get over defeat But obviously brexit is still getting to you Let it go you’ll feel better for it
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Nov 7, 2020 18:23:22 GMT
I'm late to this conversation, can someone get me upto speed on what I'm missing? I'm seeing Huddy posting Tweets mocking someone for saying there'd be beheadings in Europe, just a few days after people were being beheaded in Europe...
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Post by thevoid on Nov 7, 2020 18:29:05 GMT
I'm late to this conversation, can someone get me upto speed on what I'm missing? I'm seeing Huddy posting Tweets mocking someone for saying there'd be beheadings in Europe, just a few days after people were being beheaded in Europe... Well he's calling other people gammon so clearly the concepts of irony and self-awareness haven't reached Huddy Towers just yet 😎
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Nov 8, 2020 8:18:04 GMT
Project Fear is still alive and well I see.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 8, 2020 8:50:05 GMT
What's Nigel going to do now for attention, I wonder?
His boy in the White House has just been fired. Brexit is about 50 days from being over.
As much as I agree with his desire for voting reform, I just can't see that energising his usual support to anywhere near the same degree. Where will the dog whistles come from? I can see him quietly dropping it for something else pretty rapidly when it doesn't get half the response he'd hoped for.
I bet he soon goes back to focussing on immigrants post Brexit.
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Post by elystokie on Nov 8, 2020 10:21:33 GMT
Project Fear is still alive and well I see. He must really hate Biden, Nige has been made to look a proper chump in all this and his speech where he shared a stage with Trump a few days ago was beyond embarrassing, hope for his sake he's already cashed the cheque...
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Post by wagsastokie on Nov 8, 2020 10:26:25 GMT
Project Fear is still alive and well I see. Well farage has got that one slightly wrong There is one thing America likes more than principles and that is money If it is financially advantageous for America to have a trade deal with Britain than there will be a trade deal America has and always will put America first The reason there will possibly be a good chance of a deal is Biden is a one term president So he doesn’t have to like most democrats have to pander to Irish lobby anymore
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 8, 2020 10:43:57 GMT
You might get your wish for a truly independent UK trading solely on WTO rules after all, waga, thought you'd be pleased?
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Post by wagsastokie on Nov 8, 2020 12:07:16 GMT
You might get your wish for a truly independent UK trading solely on WTO rules after all, waga, thought you'd be pleased? Oh trust me I’ll be happy if we leave the Eu with no deal As will hundreds of thousands of other people
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 8, 2020 14:56:52 GMT
You might get your wish for a truly independent UK trading solely on WTO rules after all, waga, thought you'd be pleased? Oh trust me I’ll be happy if we leave the Eu with no deal As will hundreds of thousands of other people I'd put money on that. As have they...
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 8, 2020 18:05:25 GMT
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 9, 2020 19:21:16 GMT
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 9, 2020 23:58:21 GMT
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 10, 2020 0:01:44 GMT
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 10, 2020 8:00:12 GMT
Johnson will press ahead anyway with a bill designed to allow government ministers to override the law whenever they choose. Classic sign of this elitist government thinking they have a right to power and the plebs should have no say. No democracy, no rule of law, no trade deal with our two biggest trading partners. The worst government we have ever had. The worst PM we have ever had. Brexit is the worst decision ever made by this country.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 10, 2020 8:22:56 GMT
Johnson will press ahead anyway with a bill designed to allow government ministers to override the law whenever they choose. Classic sign of this elitist government thinking they have a right to power and the plebs should have no say. No democracy, no rule of law, no trade deal with our two biggest trading partners. The worst government we have ever had. The worst PM we have ever had. Brexit is the worst decision ever made by this country. I think it's a sign of ineptitude rather than elitism. Bluffer was crowing about his fantastic "new" withdrawal deal this time last year and forcing his prospective parliamentary candidates to sign up to it on pain of deselection prior to the general election. They've now realised that it's a monumental cock up in relation to Northern Ireland and the only way they can continue to pretend NI doesn't have different status in relation to the rest of the UK is to break the law. Noises off already about the potential unification of Ireland, Scotland will likely get another referendum on independence before Bluffer gets the shove (or maybe not if Sunak and Gove continue to leak against him), what a farce. Perhaps the four countries are actually so divergent these days that a United Kingdom of England and Wales is increasingly likely.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 10, 2020 8:55:32 GMT
Johnson will press ahead anyway with a bill designed to allow government ministers to override the law whenever they choose. Classic sign of this elitist government thinking they have a right to power and the plebs should have no say. No democracy, no rule of law, no trade deal with our two biggest trading partners. The worst government we have ever had. The worst PM we have ever had. Brexit is the worst decision ever made by this country. I think it's a sign of ineptitude rather than elitism. Bluffer was crowing about his fantastic "new" withdrawal deal this time last year and forcing his prospective parliamentary candidates to sign up to it on pain of deselection prior to the general election. They've now realised that it's a monumental cock up in relation to Northern Ireland and the only way they can continue to pretend NI doesn't have different status in relation to the rest of the UK is to break the law. Noises off already about the potential unification of Ireland, Scotland will likely get another referendum on independence before Bluffer gets the shove (or maybe not if Sunak and Gove continue to leak against him), what a farce. Perhaps the four countries are actually so divergent these days that a United Kingdom of England and Wales is increasingly likely. Elitism, ineptitude, whichever. It is wrong. Certainly Scotland will break off. Ireland will take a but longer (age is important when the votes comes). Brexit will tear the UK apart.
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 10, 2020 9:18:14 GMT
I think it's a sign of ineptitude rather than elitism. Bluffer was crowing about his fantastic "new" withdrawal deal this time last year and forcing his prospective parliamentary candidates to sign up to it on pain of deselection prior to the general election. They've now realised that it's a monumental cock up in relation to Northern Ireland and the only way they can continue to pretend NI doesn't have different status in relation to the rest of the UK is to break the law. Noises off already about the potential unification of Ireland, Scotland will likely get another referendum on independence before Bluffer gets the shove (or maybe not if Sunak and Gove continue to leak against him), what a farce. Perhaps the four countries are actually so divergent these days that a United Kingdom of England and Wales is increasingly likely. Elitism, ineptitude, whichever. It is wrong. Certainly Scotland will break off. Ireland will take a but longer (age is important when the votes comes). Brexit will tear the UK apart. Definitely not a certainty that Scotland will go for independence. A definite possibility is a better description. What we can say is Brexit, without doubt, put independence firmly back on the agenda after the 2014 referendum went in favour of the Union. Without Brexit another Scottish Independence referendum would not happen until the late 2030s at the earliest. The SNP love Brexit!! And why wouldn’t they. It always made me smile (wryly) how UKIP had that contradiction at its heart; that the independence it sought would be the biggest driver in the break up of the entity it (claimed to) cherish.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 10, 2020 9:33:01 GMT
The calibre of these newly rewarded Brexiteer Lords eh?!
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 10, 2020 9:48:37 GMT
What is unforgiveable is those politicians who have tried to undermine the choice of the people. Especially by a man who tried to keep the terms of the formation of the European Union at Maastricht secret from the British people. There are still a lot of people who still don't understand what that legal commitment to ever closer union actually means. Personally I would rather this country was independent like Canada, USA, Australia, India, and over a 100 other democracies around the world, who manage perfectly well not legally ruled by a Brussels bureaucracy which will eventually collapse due to the Euro, those people's who will come to realise their country is being ruined by membership like Greece and Italy, and those countries like Germany and The Netherlands who's people realise they are carrying the rest of the Union on their backs. In the latter case, they are happy to go along with it because they are enjoying massive trade benefits, but they will not last forever. Brexit is about democracy, justice, and freedom of a people to chose. It is not about being a member of a protectionist trading block and customs union. You above all people Huddy should be opposed to membership of an organization that is about exploitation and corrupt. amedpost.com/eu-contempt-laid-bare-maastricht-treaty-meant-to-be-kept-secret-from-citizens/www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/24/john-major-full-gloat-defeating-rebels-maastricht-european-unionApologies for quoting the Express: www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1357092/eu-news-brexit-deal-trade-maastricht-treaty-john-major-spt
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Post by wagsastokie on Nov 10, 2020 10:09:08 GMT
Johnson will press ahead anyway with a bill designed to allow government ministers to override the law whenever they choose. Classic sign of this elitist government thinking they have a right to power and the plebs should have no say. No democracy, no rule of law, no trade deal with our two biggest trading partners. The worst government we have ever had. The worst PM we have ever had. Brexit is the worst decision ever made by this country. 😁
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 10, 2020 11:15:59 GMT
Elitism, ineptitude, whichever. It is wrong. Certainly Scotland will break off. Ireland will take a but longer (age is important when the votes comes). Brexit will tear the UK apart. Definitely not a certainty that Scotland will go for independence. A definite possibility is a better description. What we can say is Brexit, without doubt, put independence firmly back on the agenda after the 2014 referendum went in favour of the Union. Without Brexit another Scottish Independence referendum would not happen until the late 2030s at the earliest. The SNP love Brexit!! And why wouldn’t they. It always made me smile (wryly) how UKIP had that contradiction at its heart; that the independence it sought would be the biggest driver in the break up of the entity it (claimed to) cherish. I very much doubt whether any one in UKIP gave the future of Scotland a moment's thought when it came to getting out of the EU.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 10, 2020 11:25:01 GMT
What is unforgiveable is those politicians who have tried to undermine the choice of the people. Especially by a man who tried to keep the terms of the formation of the European Union at Maastricht secret from the British people. There are still a lot of people who still don't understand what that legal commitment to ever closer union actually means. Personally I would rather this country was independent like Canada, USA, Australia, India, and over a 100 other democracies around the world, who manage perfectly well not legally ruled by a Brussels bureaucracy which will eventually collapse due to the Euro, those people's who will come to realise their country is being ruined by membership like Greece and Italy, and those countries like Germany and The Netherlands who's people realise they are carrying the rest of the Union on their backs. In the latter case, they are happy to go along with it because they are enjoying massive trade benefits, but they will not last forever. Brexit is about democracy, justice, and freedom of a people to chose. It is not about being a member of a protectionist trading block and customs union. You above all people Huddy should be opposed to membership of an organization that is about exploitation and corrupt. amedpost.com/eu-contempt-laid-bare-maastricht-treaty-meant-to-be-kept-secret-from-citizens/www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/24/john-major-full-gloat-defeating-rebels-maastricht-european-unionApologies for quoting the Express: www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1357092/eu-news-brexit-deal-trade-maastricht-treaty-john-major-sptI believe in reform and remain. The only upside to this brexit is for the venture capitalists, tax avoiders and short markets.
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 10, 2020 13:00:39 GMT
What is unforgiveable is those politicians who have tried to undermine the choice of the people. Especially by a man who tried to keep the terms of the formation of the European Union at Maastricht secret from the British people. There are still a lot of people who still don't understand what that legal commitment to ever closer union actually means. Personally I would rather this country was independent like Canada, USA, Australia, India, and over a 100 other democracies around the world, who manage perfectly well not legally ruled by a Brussels bureaucracy which will eventually collapse due to the Euro, those people's who will come to realise their country is being ruined by membership like Greece and Italy, and those countries like Germany and The Netherlands who's people realise they are carrying the rest of the Union on their backs. In the latter case, they are happy to go along with it because they are enjoying massive trade benefits, but they will not last forever. Brexit is about democracy, justice, and freedom of a people to chose. It is not about being a member of a protectionist trading block and customs union. You above all people Huddy should be opposed to membership of an organization that is about exploitation and corrupt. amedpost.com/eu-contempt-laid-bare-maastricht-treaty-meant-to-be-kept-secret-from-citizens/www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/24/john-major-full-gloat-defeating-rebels-maastricht-european-unionApologies for quoting the Express: www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1357092/eu-news-brexit-deal-trade-maastricht-treaty-john-major-spt I believe in reform and remain. The only upside to this brexit is for the venture capitalists, tax avoiders and short markets. Read this and open your mind: dergipark.org.tr/tr/download/article-file/676567www.cadtm.org/Corporate-capture-in-Europe-When-big-business-dominates-policy-making-andcorporateeurope.org/en/power-lobbies/2018/09/corporate-capture-europewww.macmillanexplorers.com/lobbying-in-the-eu-how-much-power-for-big-business/14246990I used to be a passionate pro European in the 70s and 80s. In the 1990s I started to get disillusioned with Europe. In 1998 I started working for the French and the scales started falling from my eyes. I stopped working for the French in 2004 and got involved in a European Committee which I chaired from 2006 for 3 years. I came up against corruption, total bias towards anything German. subsidies of competitor companies, ignoring rules, cartel, you name it. By 2009 when the recession had kicked in I detested the EU and all it stood for. I have no political allegiance. All I want is the ability for the British to chose their government. If they make a bad choice it is tough, but that is true democracy. I don't want to be swindled, but would rather a British capitalist was swindling me than a German or French one. I'll give the EU one thing, they are honest about wanting to move to a European State, where everything is decided by bureaucrats in Brussels and all national governments have to tow the line. They would be reforming you huddy to a "master state" where your views will count for nothing in their eyes. The UK parliament cannot agree on Europe what chance does the European Parliament have on agreeing on anything except nodding through the latest directive from Brussels. Believe in reform, but I urge you to change your mind about the EU, and campaign for a British government of your choice.
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 10, 2020 16:05:31 GMT
What is unforgiveable is those politicians who have tried to undermine the choice of the people. Especially by a man who tried to keep the terms of the formation of the European Union at Maastricht secret from the British people. There are still a lot of people who still don't understand what that legal commitment to ever closer union actually means. Personally I would rather this country was independent like Canada, USA, Australia, India, and over a 100 other democracies around the world, who manage perfectly well not legally ruled by a Brussels bureaucracy which will eventually collapse due to the Euro, those people's who will come to realise their country is being ruined by membership like Greece and Italy, and those countries like Germany and The Netherlands who's people realise they are carrying the rest of the Union on their backs. In the latter case, they are happy to go along with it because they are enjoying massive trade benefits, but they will not last forever. Brexit is about democracy, justice, and freedom of a people to chose. It is not about being a member of a protectionist trading block and customs union. You above all people Huddy should be opposed to membership of an organization that is about exploitation and corrupt. amedpost.com/eu-contempt-laid-bare-maastricht-treaty-meant-to-be-kept-secret-from-citizens/www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/24/john-major-full-gloat-defeating-rebels-maastricht-european-unionApologies for quoting the Express: www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1357092/eu-news-brexit-deal-trade-maastricht-treaty-john-major-sptI believe in reform and remain. The only upside to this brexit is for the venture capitalists, tax avoiders and short markets. I believe in reform as well. The word reform usually means improvement for the better. I know you are well aware that this is often not the case with UK government, but do you suppose it is better with EU government? Prior to the general election the government were forced by the EU Court of Justice to increase VAT on renewable energy from 5% to 20%. www.independent.co.uk/environment/climate-change-solar-panels-vat-government-fossil-fuels-sian-berry-a8906361.htmlWhy would the EU do that? Because of vested interests in traditional forms of energy. The EU was created out of the EEC. The EEC was created out of the European Coal & Steel Community. There are still vested interests in coal and its use. In 2005 I got into dealings with a German industrial cartel between a German coal company, steel company, and energy company which was created to keep out foreign competition. It was with the full knowledge and support of the German government, just as there was over Dieselgate, see link above post. The reason Merkel is so desperate to ensure a "level playing field" is because they are afraid that future UK governments will "support" UK business, turning a blind eye, the way German government has done. The EU Court made its ruling against the UK government because that is what the Court is there for, to ensure the EU Commission's intentions are carried out and enforced. The word "justice" in Europe means enforcing the EU law drawn up by the Commission and approved by the Council and Parliament. UK courts have ruled against UK government actions, like derogation parliament. That would never happen with the EUCOJ. The EU is not democratic , nor recognises the British concept of fairness and justice. Reform is in one direction to a United States of Europe with European foreign policy, currency, justice, security, defence forces, etc., etc. As with the American version it will be run in the interest of big business. You may want to remain in it, I am hugely grateful that the basic intuitive common sense of the British people was to get out as determined by the referendum and the general election.
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