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Post by thevoid on Nov 10, 2020 19:45:03 GMT
Definitely not a certainty that Scotland will go for independence. A definite possibility is a better description. What we can say is Brexit, without doubt, put independence firmly back on the agenda after the 2014 referendum went in favour of the Union. Without Brexit another Scottish Independence referendum would not happen until the late 2030s at the earliest. The SNP love Brexit!! And why wouldn’t they. It always made me smile (wryly) how UKIP had that contradiction at its heart; that the independence it sought would be the biggest driver in the break up of the entity it (claimed to) cherish. I very much doubt whether any one in UKIP gave the future of Scotland a moment's thought when it came to getting out of the EU. They probably gave as much thought to it as the SNP have to the parts of southern and NE Scotland that voted Tory 11 months ago and are home to a large number of people opposed to independence. Anyway, what should UKIP have called themselves, the Bits of England, Wales but Not Really Scotland Independence Party (BEWNoRSIP)?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 10, 2020 21:29:01 GMT
Brexit is indeed a visible catalyst and boost for the Scottish Independence movement. Other factors which have brought us to where we are , equally influential, but not as upfront as Brexit: The introduction of devolved " governments", rather than a sop to the separists it has given them encouragement over an extended period of time to demand more and more power. The abject failure of the three traditional UK parties, Labour, Conservatives and Liberal to offer anything meaningful to the Scots. The political clarity of a single issue cause in a global changing world....the skilful opportunism of the SNP
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 11, 2020 11:43:23 GMT
What is unforgiveable is those politicians who have tried to undermine the choice of the people. Especially by a man who tried to keep the terms of the formation of the European Union at Maastricht secret from the British people. There are still a lot of people who still don't understand what that legal commitment to ever closer union actually means. Personally I would rather this country was independent like Canada, USA, Australia, India, and over a 100 other democracies around the world, who manage perfectly well not legally ruled by a Brussels bureaucracy which will eventually collapse due to the Euro, those people's who will come to realise their country is being ruined by membership like Greece and Italy, and those countries like Germany and The Netherlands who's people realise they are carrying the rest of the Union on their backs. In the latter case, they are happy to go along with it because they are enjoying massive trade benefits, but they will not last forever. Brexit is about democracy, justice, and freedom of a people to chose. It is not about being a member of a protectionist trading block and customs union. You above all people Huddy should be opposed to membership of an organization that is about exploitation and corrupt. amedpost.com/eu-contempt-laid-bare-maastricht-treaty-meant-to-be-kept-secret-from-citizens/www.theguardian.com/politics/2018/jul/24/john-major-full-gloat-defeating-rebels-maastricht-european-unionApologies for quoting the Express: www.express.co.uk/news/uk/1357092/eu-news-brexit-deal-trade-maastricht-treaty-john-major-sptBlimey, there are few organisations more exploitative and corrupt than the Church, of various denominations, if that's one of your yardsticks for getting out!
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 11, 2020 12:43:46 GMT
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 11, 2020 13:47:29 GMT
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 11, 2020 15:57:28 GMT
Did you read the article?
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 11, 2020 16:01:15 GMT
Brexit is indeed a visible catalyst and boost for the Scottish Independence movement. Other factors which have brought us to where we are , equally influential, but not as upfront as Brexit: The introduction of devolved " governments", rather than a sop to the separists it has given them encouragement over an extended period of time to demand more and more power. The abject failure of the three traditional UK parties, Labour, Conservatives and Liberal to offer anything meaningful to the Scots. The political clarity of a single issue cause in a global changing world....the skilful opportunism of the SNP Not equally influential in one respect BJR. And that is timing. None of those other factors, which are all true, would not have produced a second referendum before the back end of the 2030s. Brexit is why the SNP are able to push for that less than 10 years since the “once in a generation (lifetime)” event we were assured the first one was.
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 11, 2020 16:08:06 GMT
Did you read the article? Yes. You'll note that Germany has secured half the EU quota for itself. I agree that the UK has got it's foot in the door first, but we'll have to see how long it takes to actually get the vaccine into the nations bodies. As I said, time will tell; it will be a coup for the government if Britain's citizens and protected from the virus before the Germans.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 11, 2020 16:12:23 GMT
Brexit is indeed a visible catalyst and boost for the Scottish Independence movement. Other factors which have brought us to where we are , equally influential, but not as upfront as Brexit: The introduction of devolved " governments", rather than a sop to the separists it has given them encouragement over an extended period of time to demand more and more power. The abject failure of the three traditional UK parties, Labour, Conservatives and Liberal to offer anything meaningful to the Scots. The political clarity of a single issue cause in a global changing world....the skilful opportunism of the SNP Not equally influential in one respect BJR. And that is timing. None of those other factors, which are all true, would not have produced a second referendum before the back end of the 2030s. Brexit is why the SNP are able to push for that less than 10 years since the “once in a generation (lifetime)” event we were assured the first one was. Agreed Partick, I tried to say that by saying that Brexit is indeed the catalyst....as you say if it wasn't for Brexit there'd be no reason offered for a second referendum in such a short period....but I would say that ultimately the argument has to be made, for or against, given the reality of where we are....the UK voted to leave...it is up to those who want to keep the Union to make the argument ( obviously).As an interesting aside if Scotland voted to leave the Union , presumably the majority who voted in favour of leaving the UK in England in 2016 would be greater.
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 11, 2020 16:16:36 GMT
Did you read the article? Yes. You'll note that Germany has secured half the EU quota for itself. I agree that the UK has got it's foot in the door first, but we'll have to see how long it takes to actually get the vaccine into the nations bodies. As I said, time will tell; it will be a coup for the government if Britain's citizens and protected from the virus before the Germans. That’s rather the point. By negotiating outside of the EU the UK has got far more than it would have done if we’d been part of the EU. In other words it’s not about how much Germany got, it’s what the other EU countries got.
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 11, 2020 16:21:54 GMT
Not equally influential in one respect BJR. And that is timing. None of those other factors, which are all true, would not have produced a second referendum before the back end of the 2030s. Brexit is why the SNP are able to push for that less than 10 years since the “once in a generation (lifetime)” event we were assured the first one was. Agreed Partick, I tried to say that by saying that Brexit is indeed the catalyst....as you say if it wasn't for Brexit there'd be no reason offered for a second referendum in such a short period....but I would say that ultimately the argument has to be made, for or against, given the reality of where we are....the UK voted to leave...it is up to those who want to keep the Union to make the argument ( obviously).As an interesting aside if Scotland voted to leave the Union , presumably the majority who voted in favour of leaving the UK in England in 2016 would be greater. On your last point, it would have made the leave vote about 1% stronger if Scotland was excluded. Folk sometimes forget that while the vote was decisive in Scotland to stay in the EU the leave vote was not insubstantial - 1 million people, 38% of the vote, wanted to leave.
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 11, 2020 16:40:44 GMT
Yes. You'll note that Germany has secured half the EU quota for itself. I agree that the UK has got it's foot in the door first, but we'll have to see how long it takes to actually get the vaccine into the nations bodies. As I said, time will tell; it will be a coup for the government if Britain's citizens and protected from the virus before the Germans. That’s rather the point. By negotiating outside of the EU the UK has got far more than it would have done if we’d been part of the EU. In other words it’s not about how much Germany got, it’s what the other EU countries got. Yes that is a good point. My point is still valid though. At the end of the day it's not the time of a deal, or size of a deal, what matters is actually delivering the protection. The German nation are very good at getting things done.
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 11, 2020 17:14:20 GMT
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Post by partickpotter on Nov 11, 2020 17:18:58 GMT
That’s rather the point. By negotiating outside of the EU the UK has got far more than it would have done if we’d been part of the EU. In other words it’s not about how much Germany got, it’s what the other EU countries got. Yes that is a good point. My point is still valid though. At the end of the day it's not the time of a deal, or size of a deal, what matters is actually delivering the protection. The German nation are very good at getting things done. Yes indeed. Germany doing very well (as ever). The EU not doing particularly well. In this case, a wee pat on the back for the UK Government who while not being as good as the Germans have performed better than the EU. The article makes the point that Britain could move quicker and more effectively than the cumbersome EU and has reaped the benefits in terms of a good amount of the vaccine.
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 11, 2020 17:25:22 GMT
Yes that is a good point. My point is still valid though. At the end of the day it's not the time of a deal, or size of a deal, what matters is actually delivering the protection. The German nation are very good at getting things done. Yes indeed. Germany doing very well (as ever). The EU not doing particularly well. In this case, a wee pat on the back for the UK Government who while not being as good as the Germans have performed better than the EU. The article makes the point that Britain could move quicker and more effectively than the cumbersome EU and has reaped the benefits in terms of a good amount of the vaccine. The cumbersome nature of the EU is another factor that could lead to its demise and slow economic growth. There is talk of the EU splitting into "fast track" and "slow lane" economies. There is also division between Euro and none Euro countries.
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Post by lordb on Nov 11, 2020 17:29:19 GMT
Yes that is a good point. My point is still valid though. At the end of the day it's not the time of a deal, or size of a deal, what matters is actually delivering the protection. The German nation are very good at getting things done. Yes indeed. Germany doing very well (as ever). The EU not doing particularly well. In this case, a wee pat on the back for the UK Government who while not being as good as the Germans have performed better than the EU. The article makes the point that Britain could move quicker and more effectively than the cumbersome EU and has reaped the benefits in terms of a good amount of the vaccine. so the obvious answer is not to leave the EU but get the Germans to run the EU top to bottom?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 11, 2020 17:46:02 GMT
Seems a good idea BERLIN/PARIS (Reuters) - France and Germany pushed on Tuesday to tighten European Union borders to head off what French President Emmanuel Macron called the "threat of terrorism" after suspected Islamist militants killed eight people in Paris, Nice and Vienna within a month. The attacks refocused the EU's attention on religious extremism, which fell off the top of the political agenda after the 2017 defeat of Islamic State forces in the Middle East. uk.news.yahoo.com/eu-tighten-rules-online-extremism-142513337.html
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Post by wagsastokie on Nov 11, 2020 17:52:05 GMT
Yes indeed. Germany doing very well (as ever). The EU not doing particularly well. In this case, a wee pat on the back for the UK Government who while not being as good as the Germans have performed better than the EU. The article makes the point that Britain could move quicker and more effectively than the cumbersome EU and has reaped the benefits in terms of a good amount of the vaccine. so the obvious answer is not to leave the EU but get the Germans to run the EU top to bottom? I thought apart from a little Gallic interference they pretty much did
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Post by mrcoke on Nov 11, 2020 18:01:39 GMT
Yes indeed. Germany doing very well (as ever). The EU not doing particularly well. In this case, a wee pat on the back for the UK Government who while not being as good as the Germans have performed better than the EU. The article makes the point that Britain could move quicker and more effectively than the cumbersome EU and has reaped the benefits in terms of a good amount of the vaccine. so the obvious answer is not to leave the EU but get the Germans to run the EU top to bottom? That has already been thought of lordy. One of the major problems the EU has is whether to retain the English language as an official language. Brussels is extremely uncomfortable at retaining English as an official language now the UK has left. It has been suggested that the EU version of English might be tweaked a bit. In true EU fashion, it says that English spelling does leave room for improvement and that a five year plan has been drawn up to develop EuroEnglish. In the first year, "s" will be used instead of the soft "c", and "k" will replace the hard "c". Not only will this klear up konfusion and make life of EU sivil servants easier, but also komputer keyboards will need one less key. There will be glowing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year, when the troublesome "ph" will be replased with the letter "f". This will make words like "fotograf" 20% shorter. In the third year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to get to a stage where more komplikated alterations are possible. So double letters will be removed to inkrease the likelihod of akurate speling. And the horible mes of the silent "e" wil be banishd. By the fourth yar, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps lik replasing "th" by "z", and the "w" by "v". During ze fifz yar, ze unecesary "o" can be dropd from words kontaining "ou", and similar modifikations vud of kors be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters. After zis fifz yar, ve wil hav a sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubls or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezitu understand ech ozer. Ze drem vil finali kum tru.
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Post by thevoid on Nov 11, 2020 18:08:49 GMT
so the obvious answer is not to leave the EU but get the Germans to run the EU top to bottom? That has already been thought of lordy. One of the major problems the EU has is whether to retain the English language as an official language. Brussels is extremely uncomfortable at retaining English as an official language now the UK has left. It has been suggested that the EU version of English might be tweaked a bit. In true EU fashion, it says that English spelling does leave room for improvement and that a five year plan has been drawn up to develop EuroEnglish. In the first year, "s" will be used instead of the soft "c", and "k" will replace the hard "c". Not only will this klear up konfusion and make life of EU sivil servants easier, but also komputer keyboards will need one less key. There will be glowing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year, when the troublesome "ph" will be replased with the letter "f". This will make words like "fotograf" 20% shorter. In the third year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to get to a stage where more komplikated alterations are possible. So double letters will be removed to inkrease the likelihod of akurate speling. And the horible mes of the silent "e" wil be banishd. By the fourth yar, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps lik replasing "th" by "z", and the "w" by "v". During ze fifz yar, ze unecesary "o" can be dropd from words kontaining "ou", and similar modifikations vud of kors be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters. After zis fifz yar, ve wil hav a sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubls or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezitu understand ech ozer. Ze drem vil finali kum tru.
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Post by felonious on Nov 12, 2020 10:33:59 GMT
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Post by lordb on Nov 12, 2020 12:50:09 GMT
so the obvious answer is not to leave the EU but get the Germans to run the EU top to bottom? I thought apart from a little Gallic interference they pretty much did Seen so much reference to 'Belgian Empire' and 'inefficient EU' that can't see that I was being flippant if course however surely it's clear that Germany is,and has been for decades, a much better run country than ours. Technocrats don't get elected here. Giving more power to Home Counties public schoolboys is very depressing
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 12, 2020 13:01:15 GMT
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Post by felonious on Nov 12, 2020 13:16:32 GMT
so the obvious answer is not to leave the EU but get the Germans to run the EU top to bottom? That has already been thought of lordy. One of the major problems the EU has is whether to retain the English language as an official language. Brussels is extremely uncomfortable at retaining English as an official language now the UK has left. It has been suggested that the EU version of English might be tweaked a bit. In true EU fashion, it says that English spelling does leave room for improvement and that a five year plan has been drawn up to develop EuroEnglish. In the first year, "s" will be used instead of the soft "c", and "k" will replace the hard "c". Not only will this klear up konfusion and make life of EU sivil servants easier, but also komputer keyboards will need one less key. There will be glowing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year, when the troublesome "ph" will be replased with the letter "f". This will make words like "fotograf" 20% shorter. In the third year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to get to a stage where more komplikated alterations are possible. So double letters will be removed to inkrease the likelihod of akurate speling. And the horible mes of the silent "e" wil be banishd. By the fourth yar, peopl wil be reseptiv to steps lik replasing "th" by "z", and the "w" by "v". During ze fifz yar, ze unecesary "o" can be dropd from words kontaining "ou", and similar modifikations vud of kors be aplid to ozer kombinations of leters. After zis fifz yar, ve wil hav a sensibl riten styl. Zer vil be no mor trubls or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezitu understand ech ozer. Ze drem vil finali kum tru. .... and not beyond the bureaucrats
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 14, 2020 12:21:34 GMT
DT: MEP Philippe Lamberts says a deal could be just nine days away.
"I see what is happening now in Downing St. The departure of Cummings is probably the sign that Johnson has begun his U-turn and will in the end accept EU conditions".
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Nov 14, 2020 12:58:54 GMT
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Nov 14, 2020 23:39:52 GMT
Who is Bloomberg, another lefty poncy twat?
Saying apparently that by the end of the year brexit will have cost us almost as much as the entire amount of all of our EU contributions since we joined in 1973.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 15, 2020 8:14:20 GMT
Australia have just done a trade deal with their closest partners. A 15 nation partnership accounting for a third of global output.
Why don’t we do something similar with our closest partners in the EU.
Now the vote leave fraudsters have left number 10, perhaps Johnson will see some sense and not intentionally kick the nation whilst we are down.
Of course, any deal we strike with the EU is going to massively hurt us all, but let’s at least limit the damage and avoid no deal.
4 and a half years after the brexit vote and we still do not know what the leave vote was for! The lack of democracy is astounding.
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Post by oggyoggy on Nov 15, 2020 8:15:16 GMT
Who is Bloomberg, another lefty poncy twat? Saying apparently that by the end of the year brexit will have cost us almost as much as the entire amount of all of our EU contributions since we joined in 1973. Yep, brexit is an absolute disaster
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Post by wagsastokie on Nov 15, 2020 8:51:28 GMT
Australia have just done a trade deal with their closest partners. A 15 nation partnership accounting for a third of global output. Why don’t we do something similar with our closest partners in the EU. Now the vote leave fraudsters have left number 10, perhaps Johnson will see some sense and not intentionally kick the nation whilst we are down. Of course, any deal we strike with the EU is going to massively hurt us all, but let’s at least limit the damage and avoid no deal. 4 and a half years after the brexit vote and we still do not know what the leave vote was for! The lack of democracy is astounding. Does any of the trade deals Australia have just signed give any of those countries any judicial control or interference over the Australian justice system Does the for mentioned deal give any of the countries a direct say on how or to whom the Australian government can spend its tax payers money on Maybe I’m assuming wrongly that the answer is no I’m sure you will happily correct me And of course if the answer is no it is just another example to prove the Eu is acting unreasonable
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