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Post by thevoid on Oct 13, 2020 13:03:10 GMT
I thought RWB was against MEMEs as they're designed to shock and don't tell the full story (at least, that's what he was insinuating the other week). There's nowt as queer as folk 😆
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 13, 2020 14:04:51 GMT
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 13, 2020 14:24:38 GMT
I don't think that he Oatcake represents " public opinion " in any significant way...nor does it purport to do so.....but it is sad that some people seem to hope/ wish ( even if disguised and justified/ excused as an "opinion" on what is likely to happen) that the UK suffers/ has difficulties because of Brexit...so that they can be proved right. Very sad. Perhaps sadder is the inability to understand and come to terms with the fact that we have left the EU and now have the opportunity to forge our own future, for better or for worse. It is indeed frightening and a challenge to be responsible for your own decision making and future but someone has got to do it. Decisions on food standards etc can and should be made in our own Parliament, it is a pity that those who have captured the role of spokespersons for the Left/Labour have lost any belief that they can win power in the future and determine those standards.....it is something many of us would vote for.....(if it didn't come along with other unacceptable policies and decision makers) A good post which triggers a few things in my mind. Firstly, I agree that the views expressed do not necessarily represent public opinion. I believe the large majority in society do not hold or express strong views, but generally are silent and just want to get on with their lives. I started to form this view when I went to university fully expecting that the establishment would be dominated by left wingers. I was wrong. There were plenty of left wingers, but also right wingers from privileged backgrounds and from working class backgrounds, but most students just wanted to get on with their studies, enjoy their hobbies and past-times, in my case watching football, and generally get on with life. The challenge of leaving the EU may be frightening for some, but remember those pioneers who left Britain and Ireland to build countries like the USA, Canada, Australia, etc. I have visited, worked with, and/or have relatives in those countries. They are proud of their independence and not in the least daunted at not being in an organisation like the EU. Neither are they fretting over the quality of their food. My late New Zealand brother-in-law who came to work in the UK for a while before returning to his home land was certainly not frightened of anything! If there is any fear, I think it is largely created by scare stories by the EUrophiles. I remember we used to get the same scare stories when we joined the EEC 40 years ago. It seems that if people lose the argument, they have to resort to spoiling other people's satisfactory by scare, doom, and gloom stories. Clearly those people engaged in selling German, French, Italian, etc. products and services in the UK are not going to be happy, but life moves on as millions of people who used to be employed in manufacturing, mining, etc. have had to do.
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Post by Northy on Oct 13, 2020 14:55:32 GMT
UPDATE: The reported proportion of steel procured within the UK for public projects is 77%, up from 40% last year. The value of contracts placed with British suppliers has increased by 20% – from £67m to £81m #UKmfg🇬🇧 t.co/0XOPgg3KlN
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Oct 13, 2020 21:55:25 GMT
UPDATE: The reported proportion of steel procured within the UK for public projects is 77%, up from 40% last year. The value of contracts placed with British suppliers has increased by 20% – from £67m to £81m #UKmfg🇬🇧 t.co/0XOPgg3KlNYes and we’re still technically inside the EU! I thought the EU was supposed to be stopping us doing these sorts of things?😜
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Oct 13, 2020 22:10:07 GMT
I don't think that he Oatcake represents " public opinion " in any significant way...nor does it purport to do so.....but it is sad that some people seem to hope/ wish ( even if disguised and justified/ excused as an "opinion" on what is likely to happen) that the UK suffers/ has difficulties because of Brexit...so that they can be proved right. Very sad. Perhaps sadder is the inability to understand and come to terms with the fact that we have left the EU and now have the opportunity to forge our own future, for better or for worse. It is indeed frightening and a challenge to be responsible for your own decision making and future but someone has got to do it. Decisions on food standards etc can and should be made in our own Parliament, it is a pity that those who have captured the role of spokespersons for the Left/Labour have lost any belief that they can win power in the future and determine those standards.....it is something many of us would vote for.....(if it didn't come along with other unacceptable policies and decision makers) A good post which triggers a few things in my mind. Firstly, I agree that the views expressed do not necessarily represent public opinion. I believe the large majority in society do not hold or express strong views, but generally are silent and just want to get on with their lives. I started to form this view when I went to university fully expecting that the establishment would be dominated by left wingers. I was wrong. There were plenty of left wingers, but also right wingers from privileged backgrounds and from working class backgrounds, but most students just wanted to get on with their studies, enjoy their hobbies and past-times, in my case watching football, and generally get on with life. The challenge of leaving the EU may be frightening for some, but remember those pioneers who left Britain and Ireland to build countries like the USA, Canada, Australia, etc. I have visited, worked with, and/or have relatives in those countries. They are proud of their independence and not in the least daunted at not being in an organisation like the EU. Neither are they fretting over the quality of their food. My late New Zealand brother-in-law who came to work in the UK for a while before returning to his home land was certainly not frightened of anything! If there is any fear, I think it is largely created by scare stories by the EUrophiles. I remember we used to get the same scare stories when we joined the EEC 40 years ago. It seems that if people lose the argument, they have to resort to spoiling other people's satisfactory by scare, doom, and gloom stories. Clearly those people engaged in selling German, French, Italian, etc. products and services in the UK are not going to be happy, but life moves on as millions of people who used to be employed in manufacturing, mining, etc. have had to do. No-one can say if the scare stories of staying out of the EU were true as we joined? This can only be hypothetical as we can never know what would have happened as we didn’t stay out?! Please don’t confuse the real issues at hand by using straw man arguments! Yes lots of people left this country to go abroad! The poverty was so crippling in this country in Edwardian times that there was mass migration to Australia, Canada, New Zealand and also the USA and Argentina. Staying here you were at the mercy of the workhouse system. Nevertheless about a third of emigrants returned home? Clearly, mrcoke’s ludicrous misrepresentation of history deserves to be corrected?!
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 13, 2020 22:56:06 GMT
A good post which triggers a few things in my mind. Firstly, I agree that the views expressed do not necessarily represent public opinion. I believe the large majority in society do not hold or express strong views, but generally are silent and just want to get on with their lives. I started to form this view when I went to university fully expecting that the establishment would be dominated by left wingers. I was wrong. There were plenty of left wingers, but also right wingers from privileged backgrounds and from working class backgrounds, but most students just wanted to get on with their studies, enjoy their hobbies and past-times, in my case watching football, and generally get on with life. The challenge of leaving the EU may be frightening for some, but remember those pioneers who left Britain and Ireland to build countries like the USA, Canada, Australia, etc. I have visited, worked with, and/or have relatives in those countries. They are proud of their independence and not in the least daunted at not being in an organisation like the EU. Neither are they fretting over the quality of their food. My late New Zealand brother-in-law who came to work in the UK for a while before returning to his home land was certainly not frightened of anything! If there is any fear, I think it is largely created by scare stories by the EUrophiles. I remember we used to get the same scare stories when we joined the EEC 40 years ago. It seems that if people lose the argument, they have to resort to spoiling other people's satisfactory by scare, doom, and gloom stories. Clearly those people engaged in selling German, French, Italian, etc. products and services in the UK are not going to be happy, but life moves on as millions of people who used to be employed in manufacturing, mining, etc. have had to do. No-one can say if the scare stories of staying out of the EU were true as we joined? This can only be hypothetical as we can never know what would have happened as we didn’t stay out?! Please don’t confuse the real issues at hand by using straw man arguments! Yes lots of people left this country to go abroad! The poverty was so crippling in this country in Edwardian times that there was mass migration to Australia, Canada, New Zealand and also the USA and Argentina. Staying here you were at the mercy of the workhouse system. Nevertheless about a third of emigrants returned home? Clearly, mrcoke’s ludicrous misrepresentation of history deserves to be corrected?! The scare stories I am referring to were the scare stories by those opposed to our joining the EEC 40 years ago, not vice versa. Those scare stories proved to be untrue, just as those scares now are about us leaving the EU. I am not talking about migration in Edwardian times I'm talking about throughout history, such as those who left because of religious oppression, or simply to find a better life, such as the gold rushes to America and Australia. Then there are those who left since WWII like my brother and sister. As usual you choose to misinterpret what is being said and twist things.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 14, 2020 7:02:53 GMT
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Post by partickpotter on Oct 14, 2020 7:09:10 GMT
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 14, 2020 7:17:09 GMT
Because that might increasingly be our future? I was highlighting that trading under WTO rules on a no-deal Brexit is not quite the golden future of independent, do-what-you-like, business as some might like to think or portray. There is still considerable "interference" and having to abide by externally adjudicated rules as these cases have shown. It does seem like a ridiculous and costly tit for tat operation which could have been avoided by having, you know, some form of trade agreement!
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Post by partickpotter on Oct 14, 2020 7:37:12 GMT
Because that might increasingly be our future? I was highlighting that trading under WTO rules on a no-deal Brexit is not quite the golden future of independent, do-what-you-like, business as some might like to think or portray. There is still considerable "interference" and having to abide by externally adjudicated rules as these cases have shown. It does seem like a ridiculous and costly tit for tat operation which could have been avoided by having, you know, some form of trade agreement! Still don’t see why it would send shivers down Whitehall. You think they don’t know all that. Sounds more like the sort of thing Remoaners would use as en excuse to have another moan about. Which you’ve kindly demonstrated.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Oct 14, 2020 7:55:03 GMT
Because that might increasingly be our future? I was highlighting that trading under WTO rules on a no-deal Brexit is not quite the golden future of independent, do-what-you-like, business as some might like to think or portray. There is still considerable "interference" and having to abide by externally adjudicated rules as these cases have shown. It does seem like a ridiculous and costly tit for tat operation which could have been avoided by having, you know, some form of trade agreement! Still don’t see why it would send shivers down Whitehall. You think they don’t know all that.Sounds more like the sort of thing Remoaners would use as en excuse to have another moan about. Which you’ve kindly demonstrated. Any other government in the history of the UK, and I would assume they know that. This one - I'm honestly not so sure. The amount of very obvious and important things they don't seem to know is staggering - like not knowing Dover is quite an important hub for British trading, or not believing that herd immunity is a 'thing', or not having the common sense to think that shaking hands with people that have a contagious virus is probably not a good idea. And these are the ones we know about. Imagine the sort of stuff that is going on behind closed doors.
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Post by partickpotter on Oct 14, 2020 8:01:45 GMT
Still don’t see why it would send shivers down Whitehall. You think they don’t know all that.Sounds more like the sort of thing Remoaners would use as en excuse to have another moan about. Which you’ve kindly demonstrated. Any other government in the history of the UK, and I would assume they know that. This one - I'm honestly not so sure. The amount of very obvious and important things they don't seem to know is staggering - like not knowing Dover is quite an important hub for British trading, or not believing that herd immunity is a 'thing', or not having the common sense to think that shaking hands with people that have a contagious virus is probably not a good idea. And these are the ones we know about. Imagine the sort of stuff that is going on behind closed doors. Yeah - I know. But incompetence isn’t the preserve of this Government. Trust me, what’s been going on in Scotland in recent years would have you gasping in disbelief. I suspect you’d also be harbouring similar concerns if you were were living in France although probably not in Germany! That said, I’m still unsure with this UK Government how much of the incompetence we see is a consequence of their presentation rather than action. (In Scotland, by way of contrast, actual incompetence is masked to some degree by presentation).
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Post by wagsastokie on Oct 14, 2020 8:21:46 GMT
Any other government in the history of the UK, and I would assume they know that. This one - I'm honestly not so sure. The amount of very obvious and important things they don't seem to know is staggering - like not knowing Dover is quite an important hub for British trading, or not believing that herd immunity is a 'thing', or not having the common sense to think that shaking hands with people that have a contagious virus is probably not a good idea. And these are the ones we know about. Imagine the sort of stuff that is going on behind closed doors. Yeah - I know. But incompetence isn’t the preserve of this Government. Trust me, what’s been going on in Scotland in recent years would have you gasping in disbelief. I suspect you’d also be harbouring similar concerns if you were were living in France although probably not in Germany! That said, I’m still unsure with this UK Government how much of the incompetence we see is a consequence of their presentation rather than action. (In Scotland, by way of contrast, actual incompetence is masked to some degree by presentation). The end of sturgeon is coming like all good snake oil salesmen once you sold it to enough people than the reality will hit that there is piss all in it
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Oct 14, 2020 8:38:54 GMT
Any other government in the history of the UK, and I would assume they know that. This one - I'm honestly not so sure. The amount of very obvious and important things they don't seem to know is staggering - like not knowing Dover is quite an important hub for British trading, or not believing that herd immunity is a 'thing', or not having the common sense to think that shaking hands with people that have a contagious virus is probably not a good idea. And these are the ones we know about. Imagine the sort of stuff that is going on behind closed doors. Yeah - I know. But incompetence isn’t the preserve of this Government. Trust me, what’s been going on in Scotland in recent years would have you gasping in disbelief. I suspect you’d also be harbouring similar concerns if you were were living in France although probably not in Germany! That said, I’m still unsure with this UK Government how much of the incompetence we see is a consequence of their presentation rather than action. (In Scotland, by way of contrast, actual incompetence is masked to some degree by presentation). My fear is that the shit they have let out is the stuff they think that the public will find acceptable. I think there is far more incompetence going on behind closed doors.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 14, 2020 9:10:45 GMT
Yeah - I know. But incompetence isn’t the preserve of this Government. Trust me, what’s been going on in Scotland in recent years would have you gasping in disbelief. I suspect you’d also be harbouring similar concerns if you were were living in France although probably not in Germany! That said, I’m still unsure with this UK Government how much of the incompetence we see is a consequence of their presentation rather than action. (In Scotland, by way of contrast, actual incompetence is masked to some degree by presentation). My fear is that the shit they have let out is the stuff they think that the public will find acceptable. I think there is far more incompetence going on behind closed doors. I think they've been winging it, by and large, from day one after the referendum. Probably why Bluffer and Gove disappeared for a good while, trying to work out what the fuck to do next! Cameron was an absolute idiot for proposing the referendum in the first place, but you absolutely can't blame him for running away and leaving someone else to deal with all the shit... You've only got to look at the nonsense around the Withdrawal Agreement, a fantastic agreement, a great deal for Britain, I commend it to the House...oh, I don't like it after all and need to break the law to get round it, to see the 'thought processes' at work. I don't think they've got much of a clue about what any of it means. On the plus side, they did actually manage to find some ferry companies with ferries to use after Brexit...
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Post by partickpotter on Oct 14, 2020 10:09:52 GMT
My fear is that the shit they have let out is the stuff they think that the public will find acceptable. I think there is far more incompetence going on behind closed doors. I think they've been winging it, by and large, from day one after the referendum. Probably why Bluffer and Gove disappeared for a good while, trying to work out what the fuck to do next! Cameron was an absolute idiot for proposing the referendum in the first place, but you absolutely can't blame him for running away and leaving someone else to deal with all the shit... You've only got to look at the nonsense around the Withdrawal Agreement, a fantastic agreement, a great deal for Britain, I commend it to the House...oh, I don't like it after all and need to break the law to get round it, to see the 'thought processes' at work. I don't think they've got much of a clue about what any of it means. On the plus side, they did actually manage to find some ferry companies with ferries to use after Brexit... I can feel a song coming on...
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Oct 14, 2020 12:16:43 GMT
No-one can say if the scare stories of staying out of the EU were true as we joined? This can only be hypothetical as we can never know what would have happened as we didn’t stay out?! Please don’t confuse the real issues at hand by using straw man arguments! Yes lots of people left this country to go abroad! The poverty was so crippling in this country in Edwardian times that there was mass migration to Australia, Canada, New Zealand and also the USA and Argentina. Staying here you were at the mercy of the workhouse system. Nevertheless about a third of emigrants returned home? Clearly, mrcoke’s ludicrous misrepresentation of history deserves to be corrected?! The scare stories I am referring to were the scare stories by those opposed to our joining the EEC 40 years ago, not vice versa. Those scare stories proved to be untrue, just as those scares now are about us leaving the EU. I am not talking about migration in Edwardian times I'm talking about throughout history, such as those who left because of religious oppression, or simply to find a better life, such as the gold rushes to America and Australia. Then there are those who left since WWII like my brother and sister. As usual you choose to misinterpret what is being said and twist things. Again you are factually wrong! The great period of British emigration was before WW1. There were efforts to encourage post war emigration after WW1 but these largely failed! Of course, the gold rushes were associated with get rich emigration as were the diamond fields in South Africa. As for more recent emigration my cousin and her husband emigrated married. They returned a few years later divorced! Not quite the romantic clap trap of seeking independence and not being afraid of the future? As for the scare stories around the 1975 vote I can only remember the increase in inflation due to the CAP to scare housewives? The anti EEC campaign were Powellite Tories plus a few Labourites like Peter Shore. We were very fortunate to have far fewer ‘fruitcakes and loons’ in those days!
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 14, 2020 13:11:59 GMT
Who was it who was pictured carrying a negotiating strategy of "having our cake and eating it"? Looks like the EU have said no to our latest attempt at that... www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-54538648Best get that electric car now if you were thinking about it... ...cue let it go
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 14, 2020 13:39:15 GMT
The scare stories I am referring to were the scare stories by those opposed to our joining the EEC 40 years ago, not vice versa. Those scare stories proved to be untrue, just as those scares now are about us leaving the EU. I am not talking about migration in Edwardian times I'm talking about throughout history, such as those who left because of religious oppression, or simply to find a better life, such as the gold rushes to America and Australia. Then there are those who left since WWII like my brother and sister. As usual you choose to misinterpret what is being said and twist things. Again you are factually wrong! The great period of British emigration was before WW1. There were efforts to encourage post war emigration after WW1 but these largely failed! Of course, the gold rushes were associated with get rich emigration as were the diamond fields in South Africa. As for more recent emigration my cousin and her husband emigrated married. They returned a few years later divorced! Not quite the romantic clap trap of seeking independence and not being afraid of the future? As for the scare stories around the 1975 vote I can only remember the increase in inflation due to the CAP to scare housewives? The anti EEC campaign were Powellite Tories plus a few Labourites like Peter Shore. We were very fortunate to have far fewer ‘fruitcakes and loons’ in those days! I was talking about "through history" not any specific period. Read my post. I was talking about scare stories when "joining the EEC" when there were lots. Not the 1975 referendum. Read my post. You chose to misinterpret my words and twist them. You think the third of the people who voted against staying in the EEC in 1975 were "fruitcakes and loons". That says enough about you and your opinion.
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Oct 14, 2020 15:11:08 GMT
Again you are factually wrong! The great period of British emigration was before WW1. There were efforts to encourage post war emigration after WW1 but these largely failed! Of course, the gold rushes were associated with get rich emigration as were the diamond fields in South Africa. As for more recent emigration my cousin and her husband emigrated married. They returned a few years later divorced! Not quite the romantic clap trap of seeking independence and not being afraid of the future? As for the scare stories around the 1975 vote I can only remember the increase in inflation due to the CAP to scare housewives? The anti EEC campaign were Powellite Tories plus a few Labourites like Peter Shore. We were very fortunate to have far fewer ‘fruitcakes and loons’ in those days! I was talking about "through history" not any specific period. Read my post. I was talking about scare stories when "joining the EEC" when there were lots. Not the 1975 referendum. Read my post. You chose to misinterpret my words and twist them. You think the third of the people who voted against staying in the EEC in 1975 were "fruitcakes and loons". That says enough about you and your opinion. No, I think there were far fewer cakes and loons as opinion formers in those days. Now you can’t even become a Tory MP unless you’re in the ERG? That’s what is different?! Historically, what’s the difference between Heath’s joining in 1972 and Wilson’s 1975 referendum? You’re splitting hairs about timescale that is all? As for emigration, how many people emigrate to New Zealand or Canada these days? The Canadian economy is growing at a snails pace about a third as fast as ours? Nobody emigrates to Trumpland? The leader is Caracas!!🙄
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 14, 2020 15:55:02 GMT
I was talking about "through history" not any specific period. Read my post. I was talking about scare stories when "joining the EEC" when there were lots. Not the 1975 referendum. Read my post. You chose to misinterpret my words and twist them. You think the third of the people who voted against staying in the EEC in 1975 were "fruitcakes and loons". That says enough about you and your opinion. No, I think there were far fewer cakes and loons as opinion formers in those days. Now you can’t even become a Tory MP unless you’re in the ERG? That’s what is different?! Historically, what’s the difference between Heath’s joining in 1972 and Wilson’s 1975 referendum? You’re splitting hairs about timescale that is all? As for emigration, how many people emigrate to New Zealand or Canada these days? The Canadian economy is growing at a snails pace about a third as fast as ours? Nobody emigrates to Trumpland? The leader is Caracas!!🙄 There was a lot of change between 1972 and 1975. In 1972 there were lots of scare stories about joining and even people challenging what Heath did because joining the EEC was not in the 1970 Conservative manifesto and there was strong opposition to changing the constitution without a general election or referendum. When Wilson came to power the mood had changed. A lot of the scare stories about joining were debunked and Wilson decided to put the membership opposition to rest by holding a referendum*. The main opponents opposed membership on sovereignty grounds, which was supported by a third of the population. History may have merged in your mind but I was an active member of the Liberal Partycat the time and very pro joining the EEC. I was naive in believing that sovereignty was not a significant enough issue to relative to the expected economic benefits on being in a larger single market than EFTA. The USA is still the largest country in the world for immigration (probably half illegally). www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jun/22/new-zealand-immigration-hits-record-highThe immigration picture is very different these days as lots of migration is both ways.
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Oct 14, 2020 17:16:25 GMT
No, I think there were far fewer cakes and loons as opinion formers in those days. Now you can’t even become a Tory MP unless you’re in the ERG? That’s what is different?! Historically, what’s the difference between Heath’s joining in 1972 and Wilson’s 1975 referendum? You’re splitting hairs about timescale that is all? As for emigration, how many people emigrate to New Zealand or Canada these days? The Canadian economy is growing at a snails pace about a third as fast as ours? Nobody emigrates to Trumpland? The leader is Caracas!!🙄 There was a lot of change between 1972 and 1975. In 1972 there were lots of scare stories about joining and even people challenging what Heath did because joining the EEC was not in the 1970 Conservative manifesto and there was strong opposition to changing the constitution without a general election or referendum. When Wilson came to power the mood had changed. A lot of the scare stories about joining were debunked and Wilson decided to put the membership opposition to rest by holding a referendum*. The main opponents opposed membership on sovereignty grounds, which was supported by a third of the population. History may have merged in your mind but I was an active member of the Liberal Partycat the time and very pro joining the EEC. I was naive in believing that sovereignty was not a significant enough issue to relative to the expected economic benefits on being in a larger single market than EFTA. The USA is still the largest country in the world for immigration (probably half illegally). www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jun/22/new-zealand-immigration-hits-record-highThe immigration picture is very different these days as lots of migration is both ways. You was a member of Jeremy Thorpe’s dog lover’s party? Haha! 😂
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Post by mrcoke on Oct 14, 2020 20:07:09 GMT
There was a lot of change between 1972 and 1975. In 1972 there were lots of scare stories about joining and even people challenging what Heath did because joining the EEC was not in the 1970 Conservative manifesto and there was strong opposition to changing the constitution without a general election or referendum. When Wilson came to power the mood had changed. A lot of the scare stories about joining were debunked and Wilson decided to put the membership opposition to rest by holding a referendum*. The main opponents opposed membership on sovereignty grounds, which was supported by a third of the population. History may have merged in your mind but I was an active member of the Liberal Partycat the time and very pro joining the EEC. I was naive in believing that sovereignty was not a significant enough issue to relative to the expected economic benefits on being in a larger single market than EFTA. The USA is still the largest country in the world for immigration (probably half illegally). www.theguardian.com/world/2017/jun/22/new-zealand-immigration-hits-record-highThe immigration picture is very different these days as lots of migration is both ways. You was a member of Jeremy Thorpe’s dog lover’s party? Haha! 😂 Yes during the 70s and most of the 80s I was a member of the Liberal Party , very pro Europe, campaigning against Thatcher's Tories, and the mess that was called Labour with Foot, Militant, and Kinnock. Who were you supporting? I eventually lost patience with the Liberals, not knowing much about the leaders that was revealed later, and ceased to have any political allegiance. I was working in the steel industry and very pro EEC having seen the success of Coal & Steel Community. But became disillusioned with the decline of steel in the UK while European countries operated cartels, subsidised their industry, and gave government grants/loans to their steel industries, actually increasing the capacity in many countries. In the 90s I learnt about how other EU countries flouted EU regulations like CE marking and operated with much laxer safety standards, and I worked for a French company for 7 years with a boss in Paris. I became a member of a European committee that I chaired for 3 years, and witnessed the duplicity of the other countries first hand. By 2010 I was working for a Dutch boss and again observed how EU countries are milking the UK in terms of trade and contributions to the EU. My opinion on the Europe turned 180 degrees and I came to the view that the UK is best out of it, particularly after Maastricht and the EEC became the EU with a clear intent of political union with a common currency, which is just plain stupid for countries like Greece. For a number of years now most UK trade has been with none EU countries contrary to what was expected in 1972. 95% of future world growth is expected to be outside the EU (the EU's own forcast). It is logical the the UK's best long term interests are outside of the EU, but more importantly if you believe in democracy you should be able to vote for those politicians who make the laws and remove them if dissatisfied.
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 15, 2020 9:15:54 GMT
Looks like Bluffer was bluffing again about walking away...all very par for the course for him. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54541761Talks to continue into November according to the last para of that report...
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Post by Clayton Wood on Oct 15, 2020 13:31:45 GMT
Looks like Bluffer was bluffing again about walking away...all very par for the course for him. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54541761Talks to continue into November according to the last para of that report... Where does it say that?
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Oct 15, 2020 15:40:07 GMT
Looks like Bluffer was bluffing again about walking away...all very par for the course for him. www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54541761Talks to continue into November according to the last para of that report... Where does it say that? Fair point? I’ve just read it and can’t find it? But I think Reuters has said that talks will continue past the 15/10/20 deadline set by Bluffer? They’ ve not exactly packed their bags and come home have they?
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Post by Clayton Wood on Oct 15, 2020 15:48:01 GMT
Fair point? I’ve just read it and can’t find it? But I think Reuters has said that talks will continue past the 15/10/20 deadline set by Bluffer? They’ ve not exactly packed their bags and come home have they? Might come to nothing anyway if UvdL has had to leave?
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Post by Rednwhitenblue on Oct 15, 2020 18:12:29 GMT
Bluffer said both sides should walk away and move on if a deal wasn't ready to be put to the EU summit by today. Now talking about carrying on. Again.
Presumably this is about as meaningless as everything else he comes out with, rather like preferring to die in a ditch over extending the transition period...he extended the transition period.
Or his oven ready deal, which he needs to break the law to ignore...
We really do have a couple of absolute charlatans on both sides of the Atlantic at the moment, kept in place by people who simply don't care what comes out of their mouths.
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Post by swampmongrel on Oct 15, 2020 18:24:57 GMT
Fair point? I’ve just read it and can’t find it? But I think Reuters has said that talks will continue past the 15/10/20 deadline set by Bluffer? They’ ve not exactly packed their bags and come home have they? Might come to nothing anyway if UvdL has had to leave? UvdL sounds like a paramilitary organisation.
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