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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Sept 14, 2020 23:33:58 GMT
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Post by GrahamHyde on Sept 15, 2020 0:34:04 GMT
So, you think it is fine to tell the British people you have an “oven ready deal” in a general election and tonight tell the HoC your own WA is crap!😀 I personally don't care I was against the deal from the start 'I don't care' Yep, pretty much sums the whole situation up. As long as we leave, it doesn't matter.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Sept 15, 2020 0:36:44 GMT
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Post by GrahamHyde on Sept 15, 2020 0:44:51 GMT
Ed , Corbyn and others on the Left have had their go at leading the opposition , but failed to win over the electorate. Perhaps Labour have misjudged, or ignored the mood of the country on Brexit....Perhaps they still are doing so.... Perhaps perhaps perhaps. I’m happy to say I didn’t vote for this fucking idiot, other people can make their own minds up whether they made a mistake or not. A lot of excuses being made for them at the moment. It's also very difficult for people to admit that they were wrong, particularly in this day and age. That's why I suspect Stoke-on-Trent will remain a Tory city for quite some time.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 15, 2020 5:16:44 GMT
Perhaps perhaps perhaps. I’m happy to say I didn’t vote for this fucking idiot, other people can make their own minds up whether they made a mistake or not. A lot of excuses being made for them at the moment. It's also very difficult for people to admit that they were wrong, particularly in this day and age. That's why I suspect Stoke-on-Trent will remain a Tory city for quite some time. Unfortunately there was very little choice, given that most people in the 2016 referendum chose to leave the EU. Given the reluctance of the EU, in the current trade negotiations, to fully respect our independence a few Remainers may be reconsidering their decision to vote remain.
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Sept 15, 2020 8:10:13 GMT
A lot of excuses being made for them at the moment. It's also very difficult for people to admit that they were wrong, particularly in this day and age. That's why I suspect Stoke-on-Trent will remain a Tory city for quite some time. Unfortunately there was very little choice, given that most people in the 2016 referendum chose to leave the EU. Given the reluctance of the EU, in the current trade negotiations, to fully respect our independence a few Remainers may be reconsidering their decision to vote remain. If I had known the Leave vote would embolden the extreme right to hijack the process and the Tory party too then I wouldn’t have voted Leave! As for the EU not respecting ‘our independence’ what utter tosh! The problem is that you want to’ have your cake and eat it’ and cry foul like Arsene Wenger! It wasn’t so long ago that BMW and the Prosecco sellers would force Barnier into giving us a good deal! Half of Brexiters said that whilst the truly loonies said the EU would collapse in a heap so there would be no need to negotiate as the EU would be defunct? Remember that ‘BJR’?
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Post by lawrieleslie on Sept 15, 2020 8:32:46 GMT
If we leave with no deal they won't of let me down So, you think it is fine to tell the British people you have an “oven ready deal” in a general election and tonight tell the HoC your own WA is crap!😀 But the WA isn’t crap. In a nutshell Boris wants to make an amendment to protect the U.K. from being split up by the EU in the event of a no deal scenario. What’s wrong with that? Last night by a majority of 77 the HOC thought it is a sensible amendment bill, but the BBC have shown their true colours and biased reporting again....the story of last nights vote is way down the list on BBC news website. Can imagine that it would have been top story if the vote had gone the other way. Instead they report about possible life on Venus.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 15, 2020 8:38:40 GMT
Unfortunately there was very little choice, given that most people in the 2016 referendum chose to leave the EU. Given the reluctance of the EU, in the current trade negotiations, to fully respect our independence a few Remainers may be reconsidering their decision to vote remain. If I had known the Leave vote would embolden the extreme right to hijack the process and the Tory party too then I wouldn’t have voted Leave! As for the EU not respecting ‘our independence’ what utter tosh! The problem is that you want to’ have your cake and eat it’ and cry foul like Arsene Wenger! It wasn’t so long ago that BMW and the Prosecco sellers would force Barnier into giving us a good deal! Half of Brexiters said that whilst the truly loonies said the EU would collapse in a heap so there would be no need to negotiate as the EU would be defunct? Remember that ‘BJR’? Independence hasn't got anything to do with left and right. Mind you , you do provide a good example of why Labour and the Left continue to be completely out of touch....calling 17.4 m of the electorate loons by implication. The biggest negative effects of Brexit have been caused by some Remainers not accepting the result, undermining the government and trying to deny democracy. All the nonsense about hard and soft Brexits and a People's vote seems to have faded, but some of you simply cannot accept that in fact in 2016 people chose not to remain in the EU. Having Remainer May in power gave them hope....where we actually went wrong is by not triggering Article 50 within a month of the referendum....instead May colluded with the EU and other Remainers to try to circumvent the result. Anyway, we have now left, perhaps we can agree to hope for n amicable and good trading relationship between an independent country and a trading block. With no political interference from either side.
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 15, 2020 8:45:11 GMT
So, you think it is fine to tell the British people you have an “oven ready deal” in a general election and tonight tell the HoC your own WA is crap!😀 But the WA isn’t crap. In a nutshell Boris wants to make an amendment to protect the U.K. from being split up by the EU in the event of a no deal scenario. What’s wrong with that? Last night by a majority of 77 the HOC thought it is a sensible amendment bill, but the BBC have shown their true colours and biased reporting again....the story of last nights vote is way down the list on BBC news website. Can imagine that it would have been top story if the vote had gone the other way. Instead they report about possible life on Venus. The Government fucked up by framing the amendment as a matter of “breaking international law”. Hardly surprising the furore that has caused.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2020 8:50:50 GMT
If I had known the Leave vote would embolden the extreme right to hijack the process and the Tory party too then I wouldn’t have voted Leave! As for the EU not respecting ‘our independence’ what utter tosh! The problem is that you want to’ have your cake and eat it’ and cry foul like Arsene Wenger! It wasn’t so long ago that BMW and the Prosecco sellers would force Barnier into giving us a good deal! Half of Brexiters said that whilst the truly loonies said the EU would collapse in a heap so there would be no need to negotiate as the EU would be defunct? Remember that ‘BJR’? Independence hasn't got anything to do with left and right. Mind you , you do provide a good example of why Labour and the Left continue to be completely out of touch....calling 17.4 m of the electorate loons by implication. The biggest negative effects of Brexit have been caused by some Remainers not accepting the result, undermining the government and trying to deny democracy. All the nonsense about hard and soft Brexits and a People's vote seems to have faded, but some of you simply cannot accept that in fact in 2016 people chose not to remain in the EU. Having Remainer May in power gave them hope....where we actually went wrong is by not triggering Article 50 within a month of the referendum....instead May colluded with the EU and other Remainers to try to circumvent the result. Anyway, we have now left, perhaps we can agree to hope for n amicable and good trading relationship between an independent country and a trading block. With no political interference from either side. It was in fact you who turned the issue of the potentially government breaking international law into a leave v remain debate initially. Those devoted remainers Geoffrey Cox, Norman Lamont, Michael Howard obviously disagree with you. I know you want to click your fingers and this to be over, but the reality is there's still a lot of legs in this.......
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 15, 2020 9:01:06 GMT
If I had known the Leave vote would embolden the extreme right to hijack the process and the Tory party too then I wouldn’t have voted Leave! As for the EU not respecting ‘our independence’ what utter tosh! The problem is that you want to’ have your cake and eat it’ and cry foul like Arsene Wenger! It wasn’t so long ago that BMW and the Prosecco sellers would force Barnier into giving us a good deal! Half of Brexiters said that whilst the truly loonies said the EU would collapse in a heap so there would be no need to negotiate as the EU would be defunct? Remember that ‘BJR’? Independence hasn't got anything to do with left and right. Mind you , you do provide a good example of why Labour and the Left continue to be completely out of touch....calling 17.4 m of the electorate loons by implication. The biggest negative effects of Brexit have been caused by some Remainers not accepting the result, undermining the government and trying to deny democracy. All the nonsense about hard and soft Brexits and a People's vote seems to have faded, but some of you simply cannot accept that in fact in 2016 people chose not to remain in the EU. Having Remainer May in power gave them hope....where we actually went wrong is by not triggering Article 50 within a month of the referendum....instead May colluded with the EU and other Remainers to try to circumvent the result. Anyway, we have now left, perhaps we can agree to hope for n amicable and good trading relationship between an independent country and a trading block. With no political interference from either side. Correct the Benn act forced the UK to accept any shit WA the EU offered or our membership just extended as they refused to discuss FTA without this. Labours position neatly summarised
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 15, 2020 9:11:00 GMT
Independence hasn't got anything to do with left and right. Mind you , you do provide a good example of why Labour and the Left continue to be completely out of touch....calling 17.4 m of the electorate loons by implication. The biggest negative effects of Brexit have been caused by some Remainers not accepting the result, undermining the government and trying to deny democracy. All the nonsense about hard and soft Brexits and a People's vote seems to have faded, but some of you simply cannot accept that in fact in 2016 people chose not to remain in the EU. Having Remainer May in power gave them hope....where we actually went wrong is by not triggering Article 50 within a month of the referendum....instead May colluded with the EU and other Remainers to try to circumvent the result. Anyway, we have now left, perhaps we can agree to hope for n amicable and good trading relationship between an independent country and a trading block. With no political interference from either side. It was in fact you who turned the issue of the potentially government breaking international law into a leave v remain debate initially. Those devoted remainers Geoffrey Cox, Norman Lamont, Michael Howard obviously disagree with you. I know you want to click your fingers and this to be over, but the reality is there's still a lot of legs in this....... The Left/ Labour have tied themselves in knots by simply thinking that the issue of membership of the EU is an opportunity to get at the Tories. I've said many times that it will take years to escape the clutches of the EU ....they are reluctant to give up their control on their crusade to ever closer union. There has been a lot of politics at play amongst all the confusion, so I am not at all surprised that there are a range of argument Its a shame that we never hold EU politicians and policies to account and to scrutiny as we do our own.. .mind you we have now become the natuin ( Remainers ) most emotionally attached to the magical EU
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2020 9:15:01 GMT
It was in fact you who turned the issue of the potentially government breaking international law into a leave v remain debate initially. Those devoted remainers Geoffrey Cox, Norman Lamont, Michael Howard obviously disagree with you. I know you want to click your fingers and this to be over, but the reality is there's still a lot of legs in this....... The Left/ Labour have tied themselves in knots by simply thinking that the issue of membership of the EU is an opportunity to get at the Tories. I've said many times that it will take years to escape the clutches of the EU ....they are reluctant to give up their control on their crusade to ever closer union. There has been a lot of politics at play amongst all the confusion, so I am not at all surprised that there are a range of argument I've only seen you bringing party politics into the CURRENT ISSUE around Northern Ireland and the rule of international law. My initial comment was around Miliband running rings around Johnson, no more no less. Did you see it? It was a pitiful display from our PM.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 15, 2020 9:18:50 GMT
The Left/ Labour have tied themselves in knots by simply thinking that the issue of membership of the EU is an opportunity to get at the Tories. I've said many times that it will take years to escape the clutches of the EU ....they are reluctant to give up their control on their crusade to ever closer union. There has been a lot of politics at play amongst all the confusion, so I am not at all surprised that there are a range of argument I've only seen you bringing party politics into the CURRENT ISSUE around Northern Ireland and the rule of international law. My initial comment was around Miliband running rings around Johnson, no more no less. Did you see it? It was a pitiful display from our PM. I've lost you really Prestwich. I'm not really interested in talking about " me" or " you".....I'm referring to the politics of the Left. Yes I've already said that Ed did well, but Boris will be given a lot of Leeway
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Sept 15, 2020 9:21:14 GMT
Have I missed something? I thought the whole issue was that the government has admitted they messed up withdrawal agreement which their election win was based up upon, and now wish to pass a bill to override it if necessary and therefore breach international law? I don't think it's a matter of interpretation, its another example of ineptitude. I don't see that there are two sides to the argument, it just is what it is? Please don't make me put all the quotes up on here which are evidence of senior tories admitting they got it wrong? They've let down all of you who voted to 'get brexit done' If we leave with no deal they won't of let me down Sorry, again I'm not sure if I have misunderstood. You voted Tory to get Brexit done. They say the withdrawal agreement is what will get brexit done, call a general election, you all vote for them on the basis it will mean they will get a majority to ratify this agreement. Months later, they admit they didn't read or scrutinise it properly and pass a bill which may result in them breaching the deal and breaking international law, which could mean years more of legal wrangling and precisely NOT getting brexit done? It has to be said here that there is a lot of uncertainty as to how international law can be enforced. I understand that they are worried and feel they need to have a weapon in their armoury in these negotiations with the EU, even if what we are doing here is going to harm us in negotiations with other countries for years to come. But is it not concerning to you, they did not understand their own withdrawal agreement? None of this is about left or right is it? It's just about telling a lot of lies and just being incompetent? On another issue, because I've decided lately to have more of an open mind on things so I genuinely want to learn, what benefits are we getting here from leaving the EU because all the economists and scientists are saying we are going to be far worse off in every way imaginable.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Sept 15, 2020 9:21:56 GMT
I've only seen you bringing party politics into the CURRENT ISSUE around Northern Ireland and the rule of international law. My initial comment was around Miliband running rings around Johnson, no more no less. Did you see it? It was a pitiful display from our PM. I've lost you really Prestwich. I'm not really interested in talking about " me" or " you".....I'm referring to the politics of the Left. Yes I've already said that Ed did well, but Boris will be given a lot of Leeway By you, yeah he will.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2020 9:22:05 GMT
I've only seen you bringing party politics into the CURRENT ISSUE around Northern Ireland and the rule of international law. My initial comment was around Miliband running rings around Johnson, no more no less. Did you see it? It was a pitiful display from our PM. I've lost you really Prestwich. Yes I've already said that Ed did well, but Boris will be given a lot of Leeway Then you went off on one about "the left" and Brexit, when the international law debacle has been condemned by many prominent politicians and commentators on - wait for it - "the right" as well as all sides of the political spectrum.......
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Sept 15, 2020 9:23:54 GMT
It was in fact you who turned the issue of the potentially government breaking international law into a leave v remain debate initially. Those devoted remainers Geoffrey Cox, Norman Lamont, Michael Howard obviously disagree with you. I know you want to click your fingers and this to be over, but the reality is there's still a lot of legs in this....... The Left/ Labour have tied themselves in knots by simply thinking that the issue of membership of the EU is an opportunity to get at the Tories. I've said many times that it will take years to escape the clutches of the EU ....they are reluctant to give up their control on their crusade to ever closer union. There has been a lot of politics at play amongst all the confusion, so I am not at all surprised that there are a range of argument Its a shame that we never hold EU politicians and policies to account and to scrutiny as we do our own.. .mind you we have now become the natuin ( Remainers ) most emotionally attached to the magical EU Boris Johnson totally disagrees with you. He promised to get brexit done.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Sept 15, 2020 9:26:40 GMT
Independence hasn't got anything to do with left and right. Mind you , you do provide a good example of why Labour and the Left continue to be completely out of touch....calling 17.4 m of the electorate loons by implication. The biggest negative effects of Brexit have been caused by some Remainers not accepting the result, undermining the government and trying to deny democracy. All the nonsense about hard and soft Brexits and a People's vote seems to have faded, but some of you simply cannot accept that in fact in 2016 people chose not to remain in the EU. Having Remainer May in power gave them hope....where we actually went wrong is by not triggering Article 50 within a month of the referendum....instead May colluded with the EU and other Remainers to try to circumvent the result. Anyway, we have now left, perhaps we can agree to hope for n amicable and good trading relationship between an independent country and a trading block. With no political interference from either side. Correct the Benn act forced the UK to accept any shit WA the EU offered or our membership just extended as they refused to discuss FTA without this. Labours position neatly summarised Nick Timothy is a total buffoon and so are you, labour had basically decided not to engage at all on the brexit issue and voted not to break international law and make the country a pariah, and it voted to uphold the agreement the country voted for. It is dick heads like you that were saying labour were going against the will of the people last year. 😂
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Sept 15, 2020 9:31:03 GMT
What have any of these examples got to do with the long long list of lies and examples of negligence arising from Boris Johnsons time in office and well, his whole life in general. I don't get it, can one of you BJ voters tell me, what is the appeal, why are you so loyal to him? And don't just castigate other politicians or other parties, or 'woke lefties'. Don't turn to lies as well, show some back bone and tell me, what is it about the man and his party that inspires your loyalty? As an aside, I'm not loyal to any party. None at all, the party system has brought about a disaster on this country
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 15, 2020 9:34:21 GMT
The Left/ Labour have tied themselves in knots by simply thinking that the issue of membership of the EU is an opportunity to get at the Tories. I've said many times that it will take years to escape the clutches of the EU ....they are reluctant to give up their control on their crusade to ever closer union. There has been a lot of politics at play amongst all the confusion, so I am not at all surprised that there are a range of argument Its a shame that we never hold EU politicians and policies to account and to scrutiny as we do our own.. .mind you we have now become the natuin ( Remainers ) most emotionally attached to the magical EU Boris Johnson totally disagrees with you. He promised to get brexit done. That is indeed what he says he is trying to do. I'm not sure whether he agrees or disagrees with me, nor does it really matter.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 15, 2020 9:35:08 GMT
I've lost you really Prestwich. Yes I've already said that Ed did well, but Boris will be given a lot of Leeway Then you went off on one about "the left" and Brexit, when the international law debacle has been condemned by many prominent politicians and commentators on - wait for it - "the right" as well as all sides of the political spectrum....... Whatever
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 15, 2020 9:38:04 GMT
I've lost you really Prestwich. I'm not really interested in talking about " me" or " you".....I'm referring to the politics of the Left. Yes I've already said that Ed did well, but Boris will be given a lot of Leeway By you, yeah he will. In my opinion .... by the electorate....as long as the Left continue to be perceived as reluctant/ anti Brexit or until Brexit is achieved. There's no point always trying to blame everyone else because the electorate didn't vote your way.....perhaps they don't like what Labour stand for in respect of Brexit
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Post by lawrieleslie on Sept 15, 2020 9:40:54 GMT
But the WA isn’t crap. In a nutshell Boris wants to make an amendment to protect the U.K. from being split up by the EU in the event of a no deal scenario. What’s wrong with that? Last night by a majority of 77 the HOC thought it is a sensible amendment bill, but the BBC have shown their true colours and biased reporting again....the story of last nights vote is way down the list on BBC news website. Can imagine that it would have been top story if the vote had gone the other way. Instead they report about possible life on Venus. The Government fucked up by framing the amendment as a matter of “breaking international law”. Hardly surprising the furore that has caused. You’re probably right but the pro EU media in U.K. would have quickly latched on the the "law breaking" element of the bill amendment. It’s laughable imo that we are being held up as international law breaking pariahs when EU members break EU laws, rules and legislation to suit themselves without as much as a murmur from the international community. Boris is giving remainers the opportunity of latching on to yet another delay in proceedings or worse to weaken the governments vs EU stance on Brexit hence the appearance of the nobodies Blair, Major, Brown, Cameron, May and Ed Elastic Band popping their heads above the parapet over the last few days.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2020 9:43:36 GMT
Then you went off on one about "the left" and Brexit, when the international law debacle has been condemned by many prominent politicians and commentators on - wait for it - "the right" as well as all sides of the political spectrum....... Whatever I had a vision of my 9 year old lad then. Have a nice day John.......
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2020 9:45:07 GMT
The Government fucked up by framing the amendment as a matter of “breaking international law”. Hardly surprising the furore that has caused. You’re probably right but the pro EU media in U.K. would have quickly latched on the the "law breaking" element of the bill amendment. It’s laughable imo that we are being held up as international law breaking pariahs when EU members break EU laws, rules and legislation to suit themselves without as much as a murmur from the international community. Boris is giving remainers the opportunity of latching on to yet another delay in proceedings or worse to weaken the governments vs EU stance on Brexit hence the appearance of the nobodies Blair, Major, Brown, Cameron, May and Ed Elastic Band popping their heads above the parapet over the last few days. What about the dyed in the wool Tory Brexiteers that are up in arms, is he giving them the same opportunity also?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 15, 2020 9:46:03 GMT
I had a vision of my 9 year old lad then. Have a nice day John....... The wisdom of a child
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 15, 2020 10:18:54 GMT
What have any of these examples got to do with the long long list of lies and examples of negligence arising from Boris Johnsons time in office and well, his whole life in general. I don't get it, can one of you BJ voters tell me, what is the appeal, why are you so loyal to him? And don't just castigate other politicians or other parties, or 'woke lefties'. Don't turn to lies as well, show some back bone and tell me, what is it about the man and his party that inspires your loyalty? As an aside, I'm not loyal to any party. None at all, the party system has brought about a disaster on this country I guess that most people who wanted to " Get Brexit Done" voted for Boris because he promised to " Get Brexit done".....the other main parties seemed to say " bollox to Brexit " or " I'm going to continue to prolong and confuse this issue( Starmer and Thornberry) and hopefully we might be able to remain but let the people think that they have decided to leave" You can't blame Boris if the electorate did not fancy what the others were saying. I'm a BJ voter but not necessarily a fan, but had little pragmatic choice.
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Post by walstoke on Sept 15, 2020 10:43:12 GMT
What have any of these examples got to do with the long long list of lies and examples of negligence arising from Boris Johnsons time in office and well, his whole life in general. I don't get it, can one of you BJ voters tell me, what is the appeal, why are you so loyal to him? And don't just castigate other politicians or other parties, or 'woke lefties'. Don't turn to lies as well, show some back bone and tell me, what is it about the man and his party that inspires your loyalty? As an aside, I'm not loyal to any party. None at all, the party system has brought about a disaster on this country I guess that most people who wanted to " Get Brexit Done" voted for Boris because he promised to " Get Brexit done".....the other main parties seemed to say " bollox to Brexit " or " I'm going to continue to prolong and confuse this issue( Starmer and Thornberry) and hopefully we might be able to remain but let the people think that they have decided to leave" You can't blame Boris if the electorate did not fancy what the others were saying. I'm a BJ voter but not necessarily a fan, but had little pragmatic choice. pretty much the same as me, Boris was the only one promising to deliver. Add that to the patronising, insulting rhetoric coming from Labour and the libs, easy decision.
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 15, 2020 10:49:25 GMT
If we leave with no deal they won't of let me down Sorry, again I'm not sure if I have misunderstood. You voted Tory to get Brexit done. They say the withdrawal agreement is what will get brexit done, call a general election, you all vote for them on the basis it will mean they will get a majority to ratify this agreement. Months later, they admit they didn't read or scrutinise it properly and pass a bill which may result in them breaching the deal and breaking international law, which could mean years more of legal wrangling and precisely NOT getting brexit done? It has to be said here that there is a lot of uncertainty as to how international law can be enforced. I understand that they are worried and feel they need to have a weapon in their armoury in these negotiations with the EU, even if what we are doing here is going to harm us in negotiations with other countries for years to come. But is it not concerning to you, they did not understand their own withdrawal agreement? None of this is about left or right is it? It's just about telling a lot of lies and just being incompetent? On another issue, because I've decided lately to have more of an open mind on things so I genuinely want to learn, what benefits are we getting here from leaving the EU because all the economists and scientists are saying we are going to be far worse off in every way imaginable. I voted Ukip the only viable alternative In my seat as I always vote and I have a personal dislike for are current constituency Conservative mp
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