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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 14, 2020 13:11:53 GMT
What's the dup say on the matter
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 14, 2020 13:52:00 GMT
What's the dup say on the matter They are more behind the UK Government than against it - link
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 14, 2020 14:59:28 GMT
It may indeed be Dom setting traps but your faith in him as some sort of genius is surely misguided because he is the chief advisor in six months of serial cock-ups, u-turns and incompetence . With people starting to recognise this is a shambolic Government it's little wonder he is so keen to get away from everything else back onto Brexit where the faithful will forget all failings so long as we stick it to the EU. Brexit was going to happen with or without Boris and Cummings. It's ridiculous how much credit Cummings gets for it, most people chose which way to vote as soon as it was on the table. I didn't know anyone in the building trade who was going to vote remain and it's normally a good indicator of the public mood, in fact I can't remember it ever being wrong. A couple were unsure but a good 90 odd percent were going to vote brexit before Boris had even tossed his coin. As for the general election, it didn't take a genius to win that did it. Even May beat Corbyn and her campaign was beyond awful and despite her short term beforehand being about as palatable as a cup of cold sick yet she still beat him. It's not difficult to understand why Boris beat his so easily is it. In the right place yes, a genius definitely no. The vote for brexit might have happened regardless of them as we saw with May and the Bercow aided parliament stalling it was by no means certain brexit would actually happen regardless of the vote.
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Post by thisisouryear on Sept 14, 2020 16:09:02 GMT
Brexit was going to happen with or without Boris and Cummings. It's ridiculous how much credit Cummings gets for it, most people chose which way to vote as soon as it was on the table. I didn't know anyone in the building trade who was going to vote remain and it's normally a good indicator of the public mood, in fact I can't remember it ever being wrong. A couple were unsure but a good 90 odd percent were going to vote brexit before Boris had even tossed his coin. As for the general election, it didn't take a genius to win that did it. Even May beat Corbyn and her campaign was beyond awful and despite her short term beforehand being about as palatable as a cup of cold sick yet she still beat him. It's not difficult to understand why Boris beat his so easily is it. In the right place yes, a genius definitely no. The vote for brexit might have happened regardless of them as we saw with May and the Bercow aided parliament stalling it was by no means certain brexit would actually happen regardless of the vote. Which makes it even more bizarre why Boris pulled out of the leadership race when May was handed it on a plate. Boris has a chance to get Brexit done sooner and ran. Blame May all you like but it was Boris who was the coward who let Gove get one over on him and rather than come out fighting he threw the towel in.
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Post by thisisouryear on Sept 14, 2020 16:10:51 GMT
Isn't Raab a man of the law? It will be interesting to see how he votes.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2020 18:41:24 GMT
What about old Ed Miliband rolling back the years in parliament and tearing Johnson a new arsehole......
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 14, 2020 20:11:30 GMT
What about old Ed Miliband rolling back the years in parliament and tearing Johnson a new arsehole...... Aye, Labour had some formidable people in the past, not sure Ed was one of them though.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2020 20:12:45 GMT
What about old Ed Miliband rolling back the years in parliament and tearing Johnson a new arsehole...... Aye, Labour had some formidable people in the past, not sure Ed was one of them though. Probably so. He exposed Johnson for the utter fraud and charlatan that he is this afternoon though.....
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 14, 2020 20:21:02 GMT
Aye, Labour had some formidable people in the past, not sure Ed was one of them though. Probably so. He exposed Johnson for the utter fraud and charlatan that he is this afternoon though..... It remains to be seen where we end up though.......
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2020 20:21:41 GMT
Probably so. He exposed Johnson for the utter fraud and charlatan that he is this afternoon though..... It remains to be seen where we end up though....... With Johnson at the helm the possibilities are endless.....
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 14, 2020 20:25:07 GMT
It remains to be seen where we end up though....... With Johnson at the helm the possibilities are endless..... Ed , Corbyn and others on the Left have had their go at leading the opposition , but failed to win over the electorate. Perhaps Labour have misjudged, or ignored the mood of the country on Brexit....Perhaps they still are doing so....
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2020 20:33:02 GMT
With Johnson at the helm the possibilities are endless..... Ed , Corbyn and others on the Left have had their go at leading the opposition , but failed to win over the electorate. Perhaps Labour have misjudged, or ignored the mood of the country on Brexit....Perhaps they still are doing so.... Perhaps perhaps perhaps. I’m happy to say I didn’t vote for this fucking idiot, other people can make their own minds up whether they made a mistake or not.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 14, 2020 20:37:39 GMT
Ed , Corbyn and others on the Left have had their go at leading the opposition , but failed to win over the electorate. Perhaps Labour have misjudged, or ignored the mood of the country on Brexit....Perhaps they still are doing so.... Perhaps perhaps perhaps. I’m happy to say I didn’t vote for this fucking idiot, other people can make their own minds up whether they made a mistake or not. I think that he will be given alot of goodwill until Brexit is done, at least until March/April. If he fails to gain the UK'S independence from the EU , he will have more to fear from Farage and the Brexit party than Labour.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Sept 14, 2020 20:56:50 GMT
David Frost’s comments do help explain what is in the Government’s mind. But why the fuck did they allow a week of narrative about “breaking international law” giving Remoaners so much opportunity to dominate the news with their howls of anguish - today that included Blair and Major. This Government continually lets itself down by its appalling presentation. It is not enough to do right - you have to be seen to be doing right. It’s a characteristic of competence. Have I missed something? I thought the whole issue was that the government has admitted they messed up withdrawal agreement which their election win was based up upon, and now wish to pass a bill to override it if necessary and therefore breach international law? I don't think it's a matter of interpretation, its another example of ineptitude. I don't see that there are two sides to the argument, it just is what it is? Please don't make me put all the quotes up on here which are evidence of senior tories admitting they got it wrong? They've let down all of you who voted to 'get brexit done'
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Sept 14, 2020 20:59:44 GMT
Perhaps perhaps perhaps. I’m happy to say I didn’t vote for this fucking idiot, other people can make their own minds up whether they made a mistake or not. I think that he will be given alot of goodwill until Brexit is done, at least until March/April. If he fails to gain the UK'S independence from the EU , he will have more to fear from Farage and the Brexit party than Labour. There are a lot of journalists now saying it is an open secret that Johnson is resigning in January
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2020 20:59:54 GMT
Perhaps perhaps perhaps. I’m happy to say I didn’t vote for this fucking idiot, other people can make their own minds up whether they made a mistake or not. I think that he will be given alot of goodwill until Brexit is done, at least until March/April. If he fails to gain the UK'S independence from the EU , he will have more to fear from Farage and the Brexit party than Labour. Today wasn't about the merits of Brexit, it was about the rule of International Law and the Good Friday Agreement. He totally embarrassed himself which didn't surprise me one iota......
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 14, 2020 21:01:40 GMT
David Frost’s comments do help explain what is in the Government’s mind. But why the fuck did they allow a week of narrative about “breaking international law” giving Remoaners so much opportunity to dominate the news with their howls of anguish - today that included Blair and Major. This Government continually lets itself down by its appalling presentation. It is not enough to do right - you have to be seen to be doing right. It’s a characteristic of competence. Have I missed something? I thought the whole issue was that the government has admitted they messed up withdrawal agreement which their election win was based up upon, and now wish to pass a bill to override it if necessary and therefore breach international law? I don't think it's a matter of interpretation, its another example of ineptitude. I don't see that there are two sides to the argument, it just is what it is? Apparently not. Seemingly there is a section in the agreement that the EU said would not be acted on that they now say they will enact which has prompted this stushie. That is what the above link sets out to explain. But who knows.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 14, 2020 21:15:02 GMT
I think that he will be given alot of goodwill until Brexit is done, at least until March/April. If he fails to gain the UK'S independence from the EU , he will have more to fear from Farage and the Brexit party than Labour. Today wasn't about the merits of Brexit, it was about the rule of International Law and the Good Friday Agreement. He totally embarrassed himself which didn't surprise me one iota...... It is connected though. Milliband was good today, but Labour have failed to grasp Brexit and Johnson, in my opinion, will be given plenty of Leeway in respect of " international law " , in the ling or medium term, even if he fails , at the first attempt, to get his Bill through the House of Commons and , less likely, the Lords.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 14, 2020 21:16:59 GMT
I think that he will be given alot of goodwill until Brexit is done, at least until March/April. If he fails to gain the UK'S independence from the EU , he will have more to fear from Farage and the Brexit party than Labour. There are a lot of journalists now saying it is an open secret that Johnson is resigning in January Who knows.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2020 21:19:40 GMT
Today wasn't about the merits of Brexit, it was about the rule of International Law and the Good Friday Agreement. He totally embarrassed himself which didn't surprise me one iota...... It is connected though. Milliband was goid today, but Labour have failed to grasp Brexit and Johnson, in my opinion, will be given plenty of Leeway in respect of " international law " , in the ling or medium term, even if he fails , at the first attempt, to get his Bill through the House of Commons and , less likely, the Lords. Get ready for months (longer even) of debates in the European Court of Justice. Nige will be pleased, all this stalling over Brexit is good for his career.......
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 14, 2020 21:24:48 GMT
It is connected though. Milliband was goid today, but Labour have failed to grasp Brexit and Johnson, in my opinion, will be given plenty of Leeway in respect of " international law " , in the ling or medium term, even if he fails , at the first attempt, to get his Bill through the House of Commons and , less likely, the Lords. Get ready for months (longer even) of debates in the European Court of Justice. Nige will be pleased, all this stalling over Brexit is good for his career....... I don't think that the European Court of Justice is relevant here. Nigel is as critical of the government as your friends on the left.....the difference being that he is trying to ensure that the referendum result is implemented.
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 14, 2020 21:33:42 GMT
David Frost’s comments do help explain what is in the Government’s mind. But why the fuck did they allow a week of narrative about “breaking international law” giving Remoaners so much opportunity to dominate the news with their howls of anguish - today that included Blair and Major. This Government continually lets itself down by its appalling presentation. It is not enough to do right - you have to be seen to be doing right. It’s a characteristic of competence. Have I missed something? I thought the whole issue was that the government has admitted they messed up withdrawal agreement which their election win was based up upon, and now wish to pass a bill to override it if necessary and therefore breach international law? I don't think it's a matter of interpretation, its another example of ineptitude. I don't see that there are two sides to the argument, it just is what it is? Please don't make me put all the quotes up on here which are evidence of senior tories admitting they got it wrong? They've let down all of you who voted to 'get brexit done' If we leave with no deal they won't of let me down
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2020 21:35:08 GMT
Get ready for months (longer even) of debates in the European Court of Justice. Nige will be pleased, all this stalling over Brexit is good for his career....... I don't think that the European Court of Justice is relevant here. Nigel is as critical of the government as your friends on the left.....the difference being that he is trying to ensure that the referendum result is implemented. He'd love another 5 years of this would Nige. Milking it for all its worth and staying relevant. And the European Court of Justice could absolutely be relevant in terms of Northern Ireland protocol whether we like it our not, we may be leaving the EU but their jurisdiction remains during the transition period.....
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 14, 2020 21:45:49 GMT
I don't think that the European Court of Justice is relevant here. Nigel is as critical of the government as your friends on the left.....the difference being that he is trying to ensure that the referendum result is implemented. He'd love another 5 years of this would Nige. Milking it for all its worth and staying relevant. And the European Court of Justice could absolutely be relevant in terms of Northern Ireland protocol whether we like it our not, we may be leaving the EU but their jurisdiction remains beyond the transition period..... It's sad how the Left have to bring it down to persinalities. The issue is the future of the UK. You seem obsessed with Nigel, perhaps out of fear. That's the whole point of Brexit, the European Court of Justice should have no influence on Northern Ireland, it's sad tgat the Left favour an unelected, anti democratic organisation to have power over the Uk...I guess it is because they have given up hope. In simple terms the latest vote shows that Labour have sided with the EU .... that's how it will be interpreted and understood.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2020 21:52:38 GMT
He'd love another 5 years of this would Nige. Milking it for all its worth and staying relevant. And the European Court of Justice could absolutely be relevant in terms of Northern Ireland protocol whether we like it our not, we may be leaving the EU but their jurisdiction remains beyond the transition period..... It's sad how the Left have to bring it down to persinalities. The issue is the future of the UK. You seem obsessed with Nigel, perhaps out of fear. That's the whole point of Brexit, the European Court of Justice should have no influence on Northern Ireland, it's sad tgat the Left favour an unelected, anti democratic organisation to have power over the Uk...I guess it is because they have given up hope It’s sad how you see the world in”left” and “right” John. As I’ve said many many times I speak for no one but myself. I’m merely commenting that the CJEU will still have jurisdiction during transition whether you, Johnson, Farage or the man on the moon like it or not. What we choose to do with any CJEU rulings is of course up for debate. And I’m certainly not obsessed with Farage, I just recognise a grifter when I see one. What that has to do with “the left” is beyond me?
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Post by nicholasjalcock on Sept 14, 2020 21:53:09 GMT
Have I missed something? I thought the whole issue was that the government has admitted they messed up withdrawal agreement which their election win was based up upon, and now wish to pass a bill to override it if necessary and therefore breach international law? I don't think it's a matter of interpretation, its another example of ineptitude. I don't see that there are two sides to the argument, it just is what it is? Please don't make me put all the quotes up on here which are evidence of senior tories admitting they got it wrong? They've let down all of you who voted to 'get brexit done' If we leave with no deal they won't of let me down So, you think it is fine to tell the British people you have an “oven ready deal” in a general election and tonight tell the HoC your own WA is crap!😀
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Post by Deleted on Sept 14, 2020 21:54:10 GMT
If we leave with no deal they won't of let me down So, you think it is fine to tell the British people you have an “oven ready deal” in a general election and tonight tell the HoC your own WA is crap!😀 He forgot to turn the oven on. We’ve all done it......
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Sept 14, 2020 22:04:29 GMT
It's sad how the Left have to bring it down to persinalities. The issue is the future of the UK. You seem obsessed with Nigel, perhaps out of fear. That's the whole point of Brexit, the European Court of Justice should have no influence on Northern Ireland, it's sad tgat the Left favour an unelected, anti democratic organisation to have power over the Uk...I guess it is because they have given up hope It’s sad how you see the world in”left” and “right” John. As I’ve said many many times I speak for no one but myself. I’m merely commenting that the CJEU will still have jurisdiction after transition whether you, Johnson, Farage or the man on the moon like it or not. What we choose to do with any CJEU rulings is of course up for debate. And I’m certainly not obsessed with Farage, I just recognise a grifter when I see one. What that has to do with “the left” is beyond me? The European Court of Justice is a political court that only has jurisdiction in the EU.....we have already left. Your views are close to the Labour party, no harm in that...eg you were very enthusiastic about Milliband 's contribution. When I refer to the Left in.my responses to you....I'm not necessarily saying that they are your views.....but you have responded to my posts many times, pointing out my references to the left. The only constant attack on Farage is personal...on Brexit he is more in tune with the electorate than the " left,"....and the more personal the attacks, the more that the left are seen as irrelevant by the electorate. Labour and the Left need to get their act together very quickly.
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 14, 2020 22:16:39 GMT
If we leave with no deal they won't of let me down So, you think it is fine to tell the British people you have an “oven ready deal” in a general election and tonight tell the HoC your own WA is crap!😀 I personally don't care I was against the deal from the start
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 14, 2020 22:44:45 GMT
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