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Post by partickpotter on Sept 13, 2020 7:24:06 GMT
Keir Starmer writing in the Telegraph (no less) had this to say as his closing comment “Get on with Brexit and defeat the virus. That should be the Government’s mantra”. I can see why he had been holding his council and waiting for the right moment to unleash his bombshell. Awesome stuff.
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 13, 2020 8:21:19 GMT
47 seconds in should answer that for you. The EU have been shamefully aided and abetted by people determined to undermine the uk position at every turn well not anymore. Yet we are the ones knowingly and willingly breaching the only agreement we currently have. They may not be perfect, but we are behaving much worse. Remember, they hold all the negotiating cards. They have the power. We don’t. That’s why they can be difficult and play hardball whereas all we can do is go back on our word and breach a treaty we agreed to a year ago. Why would anyone trust anything we say or do from now? I bet if the EU were threatening to breach the WA you’d be going mad. You actually believe that you should google countries currently in breach of international law, its quite some list and then realise breaching a treaty that has barely if at all started is no big deal espicially considering the bad faith the EU is negotiating in. The EU has no power as you will see once the reality dawns / bites with the most affected states how much unemployment in ireland, spain, france and germany do you think their governments will take for the eu project ?
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 13, 2020 8:25:22 GMT
"Dark money" more negative racial sterotyping from the slave owning funded guardian and uk haters no wonder huddy laps this shit up
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 13, 2020 8:29:09 GMT
Keir Starmer writing in the Telegraph (no less) had this to say as his closing comment “Get on with Brexit and defeat the virus. That should be the Government’s mantra”. I can see why he had been holding his council and waiting for the right moment to unleash his bombshell. Awesome stuff. So he basically still has no policy except to sit on the fence its a continuation of the 5 tests, negotiate a deal have a referendum tell the EU we want to negotiate type non positions well that worked out well for them and racist grandpa before......
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Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 13, 2020 8:46:53 GMT
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 13, 2020 8:56:11 GMT
Look forward to this new found respect for lawyers holding when the anti semitism report lands. The guardian seems to have a bit of problem with BAME women conservatives but at least they avoided a racist cartoon this time
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Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 13, 2020 9:00:11 GMT
Look forward to this new found respect for lawyers holding when the anti semitism report lands. The guardian seems to have a bit of problem with BAME women conservatives but at least they avoided a racist cartoon this time Buckland squirming like a rat on a trap now on Marr. How can he stay in position, these people have no scruples, no dignity.
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 13, 2020 9:02:34 GMT
Look forward to this new found respect for lawyers holding when the anti semitism report lands. The guardian seems to have a bit of problem with BAME women conservatives but at least they avoided a racist cartoon this time Buckland squirming like a rat on a trap now on Marr. How can he stay in position, these people have no scruples, no dignity. Because this is the quality of opposition mps bequeathed by racist grandpa, I mean when soft sophy can tie you in knots....
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Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 13, 2020 9:06:40 GMT
Buckland squirming like a rat on a trap now on Marr. How can he stay in position, these people have no scruples, no dignity. Because this is the quality of opposition mps bequeathed by racist grandpa, I mean when soft sophy can tie you in knots.... Your strawmanning this morning is quite exquisite fyd Why can't you simply comment on this heinous, unlawful, deceitful, shameful and incompetent Government?
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 13, 2020 9:21:35 GMT
Because this is the quality of opposition mps bequeathed by racist grandpa, I mean when soft sophy can tie you in knots.... Your strawmanning this morning is quite exquisite fyd Why can't you simply comment on this heinous, unlawful, deceitful, shameful and incompetent Government? Wasn't it you who was calling boris a liar for saying no forms for goods between NI and rest of UK now he does something to keep this and you are not happy, by the way if its unlawful to break an international treaty ever then the US and Irish governments might be best advised to keep quiet seeing as doing this was a big part of how they came into existence....
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Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 13, 2020 9:28:46 GMT
Your strawmanning this morning is quite exquisite fyd Why can't you simply comment on this heinous, unlawful, deceitful, shameful and incompetent Government? Wasn't it you who was calling boris a liar for saying no forms for goods between NI and rest of UK now he does something to keep this and you are not happy, by the way if its unlawful to break an international treaty ever then the US and Irish governments might be best advised to keep quiet seeing as doing this was a big part of how they came into existence.... So you admit he's a lying bastard and lied to the British Public last December and thinks the public are thick?
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Post by GrahamHyde on Sept 13, 2020 10:00:35 GMT
Good news nevertheless Nick, though, isn't it.....or do you hope for the worst for the UK? That’s about the point for some though. They don’t want the UK to succeed or have anything positive happen to it. I just find it really odd to want things to be a failure. I'd love it if we were able to strike a trade deal with one of the major superpowers that is a significant improvement on those we have already. The onus is now on Brexit to prove itself to be a success though. Brexiteers think it will be, Remainers don't, by definition. Willing something to be a failure and thinking critically to effectively scrutinise it are two different things. 0.07% is a negligible improvement. I suppose it's like the point we got away at Millwall yesterday...
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Post by xchpotter on Sept 13, 2020 10:15:42 GMT
That’s about the point for some though. They don’t want the UK to succeed or have anything positive happen to it. I just find it really odd to want things to be a failure. I'd love it if we were able to strike a trade deal with one of the major superpowers that is a significant improvement on those we have already. The onus is now on Brexit to prove itself to be a success though. Brexiteers think it will be, Remainers don't, by definition. Willing something to be a failure and thinking critically to effectively scrutinise it are two different things. 0.07% is a negligible improvement. I suppose it's like the point we got away at Millwall yesterday... Brexit success is not solely measured by trade, it never has been. Other things that should come with it around sovereignty and denying ever closer political union as just a couple of other areas will contribute to the overall picture of success,or failure. There is a willingness to see this fail and if you do want to look at effective scrutiny then look at the bigger picture and not points in isolation.
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Post by oggyoggy on Sept 13, 2020 10:44:28 GMT
Yet we are the ones knowingly and willingly breaching the only agreement we currently have. They may not be perfect, but we are behaving much worse. Remember, they hold all the negotiating cards. They have the power. We don’t. That’s why they can be difficult and play hardball whereas all we can do is go back on our word and breach a treaty we agreed to a year ago. Why would anyone trust anything we say or do from now? I bet if the EU were threatening to breach the WA you’d be going mad. You actually believe that you should google countries currently in breach of international law, its quite some list and then realise breaching a treaty that has barely if at all started is no big deal espicially considering the bad faith the EU is negotiating in. The EU has no power as you will see once the reality dawns / bites with the most affected states how much unemployment in ireland, spain, france and germany do you think their governments will take for the eu project ? What says “good faith” about agreeing to a border down the Irish Sea if we reach no FTA when you had absolutely no intention of sticking to it? Every single part of Boris Johnson’s approach has been in bad faith. I am sure you will be perfectly happy if and when the EU enforce the WA against us and we have to suffer the consequences. You would be happy for us to pay the fines (I wonder if a form of Francovich damages will be payable as a result). Only our leader to whom the law does not apply has the arrogance to do this. He is a national embarrassment and a disgrace and charges should be brought for malfeasance in public office against him for knowingly acting in a way that will cause financial loss to our nation if the WA is enforced against us. If this bill is passed unchanged, it sets a precedent that if someone has broken the law in only a specific and limited way, that is fine, according to each secretary of state and the PM himself. I wonder what the Queen’s views will be having to once again do something that is unlawful by this PM. The fact you just respond by basically saying “yeh but the EU is bad and we are better off out aren’t we” shows your naivety to how our global world works. We need our closest neighbours as they are the ones who trade most with us and who we mix with the most. To think that a tiny majority wanting to leave the EU means we never cooperate with them again and EU = bad, UK = good is such a basic point of view lacking any nuance or intelligence. Boris Johnson chose trade barriers within our internal UK market in the event of no FTA with the EU. He has so far failed entirely to reach a FTA with the EU. He needs to now live with it.
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 13, 2020 10:46:03 GMT
Because this is the quality of opposition mps bequeathed by racist grandpa, I mean when soft sophy can tie you in knots.... Your strawmanning this morning is quite exquisite fyd Why can't you simply comment on this heinous, unlawful, deceitful, shameful and incompetent Government? Probably because he busy commenting on the deceitful incompetent procrastinating Febble unprincipled opposition
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Post by sheikhmomo on Sept 13, 2020 11:22:37 GMT
Your strawmanning this morning is quite exquisite fyd Why can't you simply comment on this heinous, unlawful, deceitful, shameful and incompetent Government? Probably because he busy commenting on the deceitful incompetent procrastinating Febble unprincipled opposition Not relevant though is it. Now about this heinous, unlawful, deceitful, shameful, incompetent and corrupt Government?
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Post by GrahamHyde on Sept 13, 2020 11:25:57 GMT
I'd love it if we were able to strike a trade deal with one of the major superpowers that is a significant improvement on those we have already. The onus is now on Brexit to prove itself to be a success though. Brexiteers think it will be, Remainers don't, by definition. Willing something to be a failure and thinking critically to effectively scrutinise it are two different things. 0.07% is a negligible improvement. I suppose it's like the point we got away at Millwall yesterday... Brexit success is not solely measured by trade, it never has been. Other things that should come with it around sovereignty and denying ever closer political union as just a couple of other areas will contribute to the overall picture of success,or failure. There is a willingness to see this fail and if you do want to look at effective scrutiny then look at the bigger picture and not points in isolation. Well it won't fail will it? So nothing to worry about.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Sept 13, 2020 13:59:23 GMT
Bolloxs to Barnier.
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 13, 2020 16:04:08 GMT
Indeed this is the most important one for those who wont bother to read
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 13, 2020 16:40:03 GMT
David Frost’s comments do help explain what is in the Government’s mind.
But why the fuck did they allow a week of narrative about “breaking international law” giving Remoaners so much opportunity to dominate the news with their howls of anguish - today that included Blair and Major.
This Government continually lets itself down by its appalling presentation.
It is not enough to do right - you have to be seen to be doing right.
It’s a characteristic of competence.
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Sept 13, 2020 17:19:34 GMT
David Frost’s comments do help explain what is in the Government’s mind. But why the fuck did they allow a week of narrative about “breaking international law” giving Remoaners so much opportunity to dominate the news with their howls of anguish - today that included Blair and Major. This Government continually lets itself down by its appalling presentation. It is not enough to do right - you have to be seen to be doing right. It’s a characteristic of competence. Those well-known Remoaners Howard & Lamont .......
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Post by followyoudown on Sept 13, 2020 18:45:03 GMT
David Frost’s comments do help explain what is in the Government’s mind. But why the fuck did they allow a week of narrative about “breaking international law” giving Remoaners so much opportunity to dominate the news with their howls of anguish - today that included Blair and Major. This Government continually lets itself down by its appalling presentation. It is not enough to do right - you have to be seen to be doing right. It’s a characteristic of competence. I think its either Dom setting traps for the Lords and Labour or they were just caught off guard by the hysterical reaction but interesting one for starmer now abstain or vote against protecting food supplies or vote for the bill you have spent days screaming about it breaking the law, looks like lose, lose, lose for him.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Sept 13, 2020 19:30:23 GMT
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Sept 13, 2020 21:34:06 GMT
David Frost’s comments do help explain what is in the Government’s mind. But why the fuck did they allow a week of narrative about “breaking international law” giving Remoaners so much opportunity to dominate the news with their howls of anguish - today that included Blair and Major. This Government continually lets itself down by its appalling presentation. It is not enough to do right - you have to be seen to be doing right. It’s a characteristic of competence. I think its either Dom setting traps for the Lords and Labour or they were just caught off guard by the hysterical reaction but interesting one for starmer now abstain or vote against protecting food supplies or vote for the bill you have spent days screaming about it breaking the law, looks like lose, lose, lose for him. It may indeed be Dom setting traps but your faith in him as some sort of genius is surely misguided because he is the chief advisor in six months of serial cock-ups, u-turns and incompetence . With people starting to recognise this is a shambolic Government it's little wonder he is so keen to get away from everything else back onto Brexit where the faithful will forget all failings so long as we stick it to the EU.
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Post by partickpotter on Sept 14, 2020 7:53:07 GMT
David Frost’s comments do help explain what is in the Government’s mind. But why the fuck did they allow a week of narrative about “breaking international law” giving Remoaners so much opportunity to dominate the news with their howls of anguish - today that included Blair and Major. This Government continually lets itself down by its appalling presentation. It is not enough to do right - you have to be seen to be doing right. It’s a characteristic of competence. Those well-known Remoaners Howard & Lamont ....... Yeah - the statement that they were intending to break international law has not gone down with Tory grandees either. And not surprising either. I think it is a shocking thing to say. In the real world, of course nothing is so black and white as the government is now trying to paint an alternative view. But words matter hugely in politics - even more than actions at times (maybe most of the time). Like I said, the handling of this topic over the past week or so has been a shambles.
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Post by thisisouryear on Sept 14, 2020 8:11:16 GMT
I think its either Dom setting traps for the Lords and Labour or they were just caught off guard by the hysterical reaction but interesting one for starmer now abstain or vote against protecting food supplies or vote for the bill you have spent days screaming about it breaking the law, looks like lose, lose, lose for him. It may indeed be Dom setting traps but your faith in him as some sort of genius is surely misguided because he is the chief advisor in six months of serial cock-ups, u-turns and incompetence . With people starting to recognise this is a shambolic Government it's little wonder he is so keen to get away from everything else back onto Brexit where the faithful will forget all failings so long as we stick it to the EU. Brexit was going to happen with or without Boris and Cummings. It's ridiculous how much credit Cummings gets for it, most people chose which way to vote as soon as it was on the table. I didn't know anyone in the building trade who was going to vote remain and it's normally a good indicator of the public mood, in fact I can't remember it ever being wrong. A couple were unsure but a good 90 odd percent were going to vote brexit before Boris had even tossed his coin. As for the general election, it didn't take a genius to win that did it. Even May beat Corbyn and her campaign was beyond awful and despite her short term beforehand being about as palatable as a cup of cold sick yet she still beat him. It's not difficult to understand why Boris beat his so easily is it. In the right place yes, a genius definitely no.
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Post by mrcoke on Sept 14, 2020 10:19:14 GMT
I've developed an opinion that Johnson is manoeuvring himself into a win - win situation.
Either the EU are going to back down, realising Johnson is a head case and will steam full ahead to a no deal and in which case the EU gets nothing out of Brexit, or
The EU continue to dig their heels in and we get a no deal with the consequential fall out of a "trade war", French lorry drivers blocking ports and roads, a "fishing war" with the UK and French navies defending their citizens, in which case Johnson will be the national leader like Thatcher in the Falklands War and rallying everyone to fight the opposition.
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Post by wagsastokie on Sept 14, 2020 11:06:22 GMT
I've developed an opinion that Johnson is manoeuvring himself into a win - win situation. Either the EU are going to back down, realising Johnson is a head case and will steam full ahead to a no deal and in which case the EU gets nothing out of Brexit, or The EU continue to dig their heels in and we get a no deal with the consequential fall out of a "trade war", French lorry drivers blocking ports and roads, a "fishing war" with the UK and French navies defending their citizens, in which case Johnson will be the national leader like Thatcher in the Falklands War and rallying everyone to fight the opposition. I definitely think we're heading for a US verses the duplicitous johnny foreigner But all this could be stopped overnight if the EU gave us a guarantee of third country trading status Boris could then withdraw his current bill Its time for the EU to show some of this Alledge good will and instantly calm the situation
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Post by Paul Spencer on Sept 14, 2020 11:11:44 GMT
In an interview with Times Radio this morning Geoffrey Cox, the Conservative Brexiter and former attorney general, said that he had spoken to Boris Johnson before announcing his opposition to the internal market bill in an article in the Times (paywall) this morning. Cox told the station:
"I have spoken to the prime minister. We’ve had long discussions and I know the prime minister is giving very careful thought to these things."
In his Times article Cox says that it would be “unconscionable” for the UK to abandon treaty obligations that it accepted less than 12 months ago. He says:
"When the Queen’s minister gives his word, on her behalf, it should be axiomatic that he will keep it, even if the consequences are unpalatable. By doing so he pledges the faith, honour and credit of this nation and it diminishes the standing and reputation of Britain in the world if it should be seen to be otherwise ..."
He says that when it signed the withdrawal agreement treaty, the UK accepted "the inevitable application of EU tariffs and customs procedures to certain goods entering Northern Ireland from Great Britain and of the EU’s state aid regime to the province”. He goes on:
"If the powers that the House of Commons is asked today to confer on the government by assenting to the UK internal market bill are to be used to nullify those perfectly plain and foreseeable consequences, they would amount to nothing more or less than the unilateral abrogation of the treaty obligations to which we pledged our word less than 12 months ago, and which this parliament ratified in February.
It is unconscionable that this country, justly famous for its regard for the rule of law around the world, should act in such a way."
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Sept 14, 2020 11:25:08 GMT
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