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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 28, 2020 8:59:06 GMT
A bold statement that needs to be said......but it simply emphasises the starting point for any independent country.....ie what is " ours" is " ours" ....there' s no shame in that.....eg....the starting point for Japan , Australia or the USA What a week, fish and blue passports! Get the bunting up. 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧 So in essence from today's revelations we are actively seeking a 'Canada style deal' 🇨🇦 Britain is setting a hard-ish deadline of if you prefer, red line, of June to show progress is being made.⏳ If no progress has been made we will be pulling the plug and going for an Australia style agreement/deal.* 🇦🇺 *of which there is no such thing ❌ **for those interested one of the reasons it doesnt exist is due to cartogenics involving beef 🐃 Ultimately leading to no deal (but we don't want to call it that) and the economical cliff edge. 🖲 Now, as we are in the position we are in I sincerely hope we have the shit hottest of negotiators dealing with Brussels 🙏, however I won't be holding my breath. I don't really get the point that you are making here Red....except the tone seems to be ....you can't accept Brexit, you don't like Boris and you're on the side of the EU , if sides need to be taken. Australia is the second largest trading partner with the EU and indeed does not have a comprehensive FREE trade deal. Clearly it still trades, and does so through sector by sector arrangements. As you probably know discussions are in place. That's one model and it seems to me that if we can't get agreement across all areas we should get agreement across the areas on which we can agree. It seems to me the Canada plus would be good. As we are already aligned in every area of existing trade a " UK style " deal would seem even better......of course the EU are not going to want to agree to that because it blows economic and political control out of the water. Australia , Canada , Japan trade but don't agree to the four freedoms , and jurisdiction of the court of Justice etc. I'd agree with Kate Hoey and Steve Baker re Boris's bold statement.....it is what he will be measured by and importantly it is what it means to be a free, independent country...not in the EU ....as most countries are. What do you expect Boris to say....." I'm eager to give up our fishing rights, and we'll do anything that the EU wants". Has Macron agreed to share the Champagne region? The EU are not stupid and whilst they need to come to terms with negotiating with an independent UK,they still wish to maintain control, true to form......at the moment it seems that we have someone in Johnson who is brave enough to stand in Britain's corner....it's Just that we are not used to it. And I think that he is right about June as an interm deadline....by then he'll know whether the EU are serious and not playing their usual games....see Hannan
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Feb 28, 2020 10:07:20 GMT
What a week, fish and blue passports! Get the bunting up. 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧 So in essence from today's revelations we are actively seeking a 'Canada style deal' 🇨🇦 Britain is setting a hard-ish deadline of if you prefer, red line, of June to show progress is being made.⏳ If no progress has been made we will be pulling the plug and going for an Australia style agreement/deal.* 🇦🇺 *of which there is no such thing ❌ **for those interested one of the reasons it doesnt exist is due to cartogenics involving beef 🐃 Ultimately leading to no deal (but we don't want to call it that) and the economical cliff edge. 🖲 Now, as we are in the position we are in I sincerely hope we have the shit hottest of negotiators dealing with Brussels 🙏, however I won't be holding my breath. I don't really get the point that you are making here Red....except the tone seems to be ....you can't accept Brexit, you don't like Boris and you're on the side of the EU , if sides need to be taken. Australia is the second largest trading partner with the EU and indeed does not have a comprehensive FREE trade deal. Clearly it still trades, and does so through sector by sector arrangements. As you probably know discussions are in place. That's one model and it seems to me that if we can't get agreement across all areas we should get agreement across the areas on which we can agree. It seems to me the Canada plus would be good. As we are already aligned in every area of existing trade a " UK style " deal would seem even better......of course the EU are not going to want to agree to that because it blows economic and political control out of the water. Australia , Canada , Japan trade but don't agree to the four freedoms , and jurisdiction of the court of Justice etc. I'd agree with Kate Hoey and Steve Baker re Boris's bold statement.....it is what he will be measured by and importantly it is what it means to be a free, independent country...not in the EU ....as most countries are. What do you expect Boris to say....." I'm eager to give up our fishing rights, and we'll do anything that the EU wants". Has Macron agreed to share the Champagne region? The EU are not stupid and whilst they need to come to terms with negotiating with an independent UK,they still wish to maintain control, true to form......at the moment it seems that we have someone in Johnson who is brave enough to stand in Britain's corner....it's Just that we are not used to it. And I think that he is right about June as an interm deadline....by then he'll know whether the EU are serious and not playing their usual games....see Hannan There isn't a solid point to be made, merely expressing the situation we now find ourselves in moving forwards. As I have said I sincerely hope our negotiating team are up to scratch. I have no great love for Boris or Brexit but what I detest more than anything is the bullshit that people keep swallowing such as an 'Australian deal'
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 28, 2020 10:22:43 GMT
I don't really get the point that you are making here Red....except the tone seems to be ....you can't accept Brexit, you don't like Boris and you're on the side of the EU , if sides need to be taken. Australia is the second largest trading partner with the EU and indeed does not have a comprehensive FREE trade deal. Clearly it still trades, and does so through sector by sector arrangements. As you probably know discussions are in place. That's one model and it seems to me that if we can't get agreement across all areas we should get agreement across the areas on which we can agree. It seems to me the Canada plus would be good. As we are already aligned in every area of existing trade a " UK style " deal would seem even better......of course the EU are not going to want to agree to that because it blows economic and political control out of the water. Australia , Canada , Japan trade but don't agree to the four freedoms , and jurisdiction of the court of Justice etc. I'd agree with Kate Hoey and Steve Baker re Boris's bold statement.....it is what he will be measured by and importantly it is what it means to be a free, independent country...not in the EU ....as most countries are. What do you expect Boris to say....." I'm eager to give up our fishing rights, and we'll do anything that the EU wants". Has Macron agreed to share the Champagne region? The EU are not stupid and whilst they need to come to terms with negotiating with an independent UK,they still wish to maintain control, true to form......at the moment it seems that we have someone in Johnson who is brave enough to stand in Britain's corner....it's Just that we are not used to it. And I think that he is right about June as an interm deadline....by then he'll know whether the EU are serious and not playing their usual games....see Hannan There isn't a solid point to be made, merely expressing the situation we now find ourselves in moving forwards. As I have said I sincerely hope our negotiating team are up to scratch. I have no great love for Boris or Brexit but what I detest more than anything is the bullshit that people keep swallowing such as an 'Australian deal' Perhaps "Australian arrangements" might suit you better.Clearly the EU has arrangements with Australia, as it does Norway, China etc....I don't know what other vocabulary people can use? In simple terms it's best to make our own " deal".... and , as we are already aligned in terms of existing trade, as David Davis used to say, it should be easy to make a deal....but of course the EU will want other strings attached....and it does seem that they are afraid of an independent sovereign rival on their doorstep. Given that we have left the EU, what would you like to see....a so called " soft " Brexit? ....that basically retains control in Brussels
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Post by mrcoke on Feb 28, 2020 19:58:21 GMT
It seems that many people don't understand negotiating.
Each side takes up an extreme position (ridiculous pay claim/"we can't afford a pay rise") and after lengthy negotiation and possibly industrial action (expect French farmers and fishermen to get rough) we all get to a compromise where both sides give ground and claim victory.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 28, 2020 20:07:50 GMT
It seems that many people don't understand negotiating. Each side takes up an extreme position (ridiculous pay claim/"we can't afford a pay rise") and after lengthy negotiation and possibly industrial action (expect French farmers and fishermen to get rough) we all get to a compromise where both sides give ground and claim victory. Agreed, Mr Coke.....but sometimes an agreement cannot be achieved.
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Feb 28, 2020 22:09:08 GMT
There isn't a solid point to be made, merely expressing the situation we now find ourselves in moving forwards. As I have said I sincerely hope our negotiating team are up to scratch. I have no great love for Boris or Brexit but what I detest more than anything is the bullshit that people keep swallowing such as an 'Australian deal' Perhaps "Australian arrangements" might suit you better.Clearly the EU has arrangements with Australia, as it does Norway, China etc....I don't know what other vocabulary people can use? In simple terms it's best to make our own " deal".... and , as we are already aligned in terms of existing trade, as David Davis used to say, it should be easy to make a deal....but of course the EU will want other strings attached....and it does seem that they are afraid of an independent sovereign rival on their doorstep. Given that we have left the EU, what would you like to see....a so called " soft " Brexit? ....that basically retains control in Brussels It doesnt though BJR, this is the issue and is why people like me get so frustrated. Do the research, Australia is in negotiations, but does not have a deal or agreement whatever you want to call it with the EU. So guess what it is trading under? It is a way of hiding 'no deal' In terms of what I would want - excluding the obvious - would be the softest form of Brexit possible so I would be closer to Norway than I would be Canada.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 29, 2020 7:07:05 GMT
Perhaps "Australian arrangements" might suit you better.Clearly the EU has arrangements with Australia, as it does Norway, China etc....I don't know what other vocabulary people can use? In simple terms it's best to make our own " deal".... and , as we are already aligned in terms of existing trade, as David Davis used to say, it should be easy to make a deal....but of course the EU will want other strings attached....and it does seem that they are afraid of an independent sovereign rival on their doorstep. Given that we have left the EU, what would you like to see....a so called " soft " Brexit? ....that basically retains control in Brussels It doesnt though BJR, this is the issue and is why people like me get so frustrated. Do the research, Australia is in negotiations, but does not have a deal or agreement whatever you want to call it with the EU. So guess what it is trading under? It is a way of hiding 'no deal' In terms of what I would want - excluding the obvious - would be the softest form of Brexit possible so I would be closer to Norway than I would be Canada. Australia trades with the EU, the EU's second largest trading partner. It has not got a " deal" and does not accept the 4 freedoms , jurisdiction of the Eurooesn court. Clearly those issues would not be on the agenda in any trading deal....because there is no need for them.to be.....it would be ludicrous to suggest them. You don't need a " deal" to trade, although obviously it is good to have one IF BOTH parties agree Clearly they trade , as far as I am aware, by other arrangements ( WTO....see link below) but seek a FREE trade deal. if you know differently please point me in the right direction ( provide a link or domething) If your soft type of "post Brexit idesl" includes commitment to the four freedoms and jurisdiction of the European court, it would not be Brexit......Most importantly don't forget that we have now already left the EU ...the implications of being a free independent country ( like Austrslia) need to sink in. .........From the link. Australia is seeking significantly improved market access for Australian agricultural and industrial products. In addition to commitments on tariffs, the chapter will incorporate or build upon Australia and the EU's World Trade Organization (WTO) obligations including national treatment obligations. Summary of negotiating aims and approach | DFAT www.dfat.gov.au/trade/agreements/negotiations/aeufta/Pages/summary-of-negotiating-aims-and-approach.aspx
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Feb 29, 2020 8:12:47 GMT
It doesnt though BJR, this is the issue and is why people like me get so frustrated. Do the research, Australia is in negotiations, but does not have a deal or agreement whatever you want to call it with the EU. So guess what it is trading under? It is a way of hiding 'no deal' In terms of what I would want - excluding the obvious - would be the softest form of Brexit possible so I would be closer to Norway than I would be Canada. Australia trades with the EU, the EU's second largest trading partner. It has not got a " deal" and does not accept the 4 freedoms , jurisdiction of the Eurooesn court. Clearly those issues would not be on the agenda in any trading deal....because there is no need for them.to be.....it would be ludicrous to suggest them. You don't need a " deal" to trade, although obviously it is good to have one IF BOTH parties agree Clearly they trade , as far as I am aware, by other arrangements ( WTO....see link below) but seek a FREE trade deal. if you know differently please point me in the right direction ( provide a link or domething) If your soft type of "post Brexit idesl" includes commitment to the four freedoms and jurisdiction of the European court, it would not be Brexit......Most importantly don't forget that we have now already left the EU ...the implications of being a free independent country ( like Austrslia) need to sink in. .........From the link. Australia is seeking significantly improved market access for Australian agricultural and industrial products. In addition to commitments on tariffs, the chapter will incorporate or build upon Australia and the EU's World Trade Organization (WTO) obligations including national treatment obligations. Summary of negotiating aims and approach | DFAT www.dfat.gov.au/trade/agreements/negotiations/aeufta/Pages/summary-of-negotiating-aims-and-approach.aspxCorrect! And trading under WTO terms is more commonly known as what type of Brexit? What term and phrase does the media and majority of people in this country know this as that the British Government no longer want to use?
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 29, 2020 8:18:12 GMT
Australia trades with the EU, the EU's second largest trading partner. It has not got a " deal" and does not accept the 4 freedoms , jurisdiction of the Eurooesn court. Clearly those issues would not be on the agenda in any trading deal....because there is no need for them.to be.....it would be ludicrous to suggest them. You don't need a " deal" to trade, although obviously it is good to have one IF BOTH parties agree Clearly they trade , as far as I am aware, by other arrangements ( WTO....see link below) but seek a FREE trade deal. if you know differently please point me in the right direction ( provide a link or domething) If your soft type of "post Brexit idesl" includes commitment to the four freedoms and jurisdiction of the European court, it would not be Brexit......Most importantly don't forget that we have now already left the EU ...the implications of being a free independent country ( like Austrslia) need to sink in. .........From the link. Australia is seeking significantly improved market access for Australian agricultural and industrial products. In addition to commitments on tariffs, the chapter will incorporate or build upon Australia and the EU's World Trade Organization (WTO) obligations including national treatment obligations. Summary of negotiating aims and approach | DFAT www.dfat.gov.au/trade/agreements/negotiations/aeufta/Pages/summary-of-negotiating-aims-and-approach.aspxCorrect! And trading under WTO terms is more commonly known as what type of Brexit? What term and phrase does the media and majority of people in this country know this as that the British Government no longer want to use? I'm still not sure about what you are getting at Red. What I do know is that trading relations do not have to encompass political control.
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Post by Clayton Wood on Feb 29, 2020 9:51:06 GMT
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Feb 29, 2020 9:59:55 GMT
Correct! And trading under WTO terms is more commonly known as what type of Brexit? What term and phrase does the media and majority of people in this country know this as that the British Government no longer want to use? I'm still not sure about what you are getting at Red. What I do know is that trading relations do not have to encompass political control. It is a very simple question BJR. What type of Brexit is trading under WTO terms more commonly known as? Nigel speaks about it a lot so I know that you know.
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Feb 29, 2020 10:15:00 GMT
I'm still not sure about what you are getting at Red. What I do know is that trading relations do not have to encompass political control. It is a very simple question BJR. What type of Brexit is trading under WTO terms more commonly known as? Nigel speaks about it a lot so I know that you know. This is fucking boring. A 'hard' Brexit, a term made-up by a bunch of losers who couldn't stand the fact they'd lost, so they changed the wording of everything to give us a 'hard' Brexit (IE : a proper, true Brexit where we LEAVE the control of the EU) or a 'soft' Brexit (IE : Not Brexit at all because we'd REMAIN under the control of the EU.) A bunch of gulible losers lapped it up as a chance to override democracy. Thankfully the majority of people in this country saw right through it & elected a leader with a huge majority to push through a proper Brexit. There you go, sorted. You can now move on from this boring fucking shit we've talked about on here for the last three bastard years.
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Feb 29, 2020 10:29:08 GMT
It is a very simple question BJR. What type of Brexit is trading under WTO terms more commonly known as? Nigel speaks about it a lot so I know that you know. This is fucking boring. A 'hard' Brexit, a term made-up by a bunch of losers who couldn't stand the fact they'd lost, so they changed the wording of everything to give us a 'hard' Brexit (IE : a proper, true Brexit where we LEAVE the control of the EU) or a 'soft' Brexit (IE : Not Brexit at all because we'd REMAIN under the control of the EU.) A bunch of gulible losers lapped it up as a chance to override democracy. Thankfully the majority of people in this country saw right through it & elected a leader with a huge majority to push through a proper Brexit. There you go, sorted. You can now move on from this boring fucking shit we've talked about on here for the last three bastard years. And would you like to enlighten us on what your version of a proper Brexit is? Are you a fully signed up member to this new and mythical 'Australia Deal/Agreement' that we have decided to move to by default should the 'Canada' style deal not take off? Or, in the absence of fact do you want to just start crowing about how the people are bored and we should just get on with it regardless of consequences?
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Post by The Drunken Communist on Feb 29, 2020 10:46:32 GMT
And would you like to enlighten us on what your version of a proper Brexit is? Are you a fully signed up member to this new and mythical 'Australia Deal/Agreement' that we have decided to move to by default should the 'Canada' style deal not take off? Or, in the absence of fact do you want to just start crowing about how the people are bored and we should just get on with it regardless of consequences? A proper Brexit is to leave the control of the European Union, we've been over this hundreds of times on this thread. When we've fully left their control we can, hopefully, strike a trade deal, a purely trade deal, if they're not interested in that & still want political control over us then we tell them no thanks & trade on WTO terms. This is all stuff that has been talked about hundreds & hundreds of times on this thread. The European Union is supposedly a trading block, they happily trade with other countries who don't have to be controlled by them, don't have to accept freedom of movement, don't have to accept the European courts etc... etc... It should be no different for us.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 29, 2020 10:58:44 GMT
I'm still not sure about what you are getting at Red. What I do know is that trading relations do not have to encompass political control. It is a very simple question BJR. What type of Brexit is trading under WTO terms more commonly known as? Nigel speaks about it a lot so I know that you know. I honestly don't know what you are talking about. If you mean a " no deal" Brexit, this has been debated ever since the referendum result, particularly since many people cannot accept the result . It has always been clear to me ( and Nigel, I believe) that leaving the EU and having a trade deal are two separate issues...often conflated to simple to get us to remain by deceit. I've talked about an Australian ( or Japanese, New Zealand, USA ) type deal for years....ie an independent country having a "dea" with another independent country ....or in this case a quasi country called the EU. As DC says it is getting a tad repetitive......I think that we agree on the bare facts don't we........We have actually left the EU at 11.00 pm on 31 January 2020, we are now in a transition period in respect of our new trading relationship, a period scheduled to end on 31 December 2020..........Whatever agreement we end up with I hope that it is how Farage and now Boris are describing it.......control of our borders, fishing, laws, money etc, no control of the European court of Justice ( similar to Australia)...you are hoping that we give the EU jurisdiction over many of those things ( even though we now no longer are part of the EU machine)............We do agree on that Red so I don't get the rest of the " argument"
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Feb 29, 2020 11:06:30 GMT
And would you like to enlighten us on what your version of a proper Brexit is? Are you a fully signed up member to this new and mythical 'Australia Deal/Agreement' that we have decided to move to by default should the 'Canada' style deal not take off? Or, in the absence of fact do you want to just start crowing about how the people are bored and we should just get on with it regardless of consequences? A proper Brexit is to leave the control of the European Union, we've been over this hundreds of times on this thread. When we've fully left their control we can, hopefully, strike a trade deal, a purely trade deal, if they're not interested in that & still want political control over us then we tell them no thanks & trade on WTO terms. This is all stuff that has been talked about hundreds & hundreds of times on this thread. The European Union is supposedly a trading block, they happily trade with other countries who don't have to be controlled by them, don't have to accept freedom of movement, don't have to accept the European courts etc... etc... It should be no different for us. And this is why it will continue to be gone over hundreds of times. Absolutely zero thought given about business owners, people who wish to live and work freely in different countries, the NI border, commerce and trade, standards all in the pursuit of this idea of being 'free' And to cap it off we are now creating made up trade terms and deals to mask the term 'no deal' Now you might be happy with that and you have every right to be, but sure as hell isnt what was proposed or what everybody wanted. It's not going away and I make no apologies for highlighting the direction of traffic and not allowing people to just take an ostrich stance and in a little over 12 months times it will all be coming home to roost. Still, at least my new passport will be Blue.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 29, 2020 11:10:09 GMT
A proper Brexit is to leave the control of the European Union, we've been over this hundreds of times on this thread. When we've fully left their control we can, hopefully, strike a trade deal, a purely trade deal, if they're not interested in that & still want political control over us then we tell them no thanks & trade on WTO terms. This is all stuff that has been talked about hundreds & hundreds of times on this thread. The European Union is supposedly a trading block, they happily trade with other countries who don't have to be controlled by them, don't have to accept freedom of movement, don't have to accept the European courts etc... etc... It should be no different for us. And this is why it will continue to be gone over hundreds of times. Absolutely zero thought given about business owners, people who wish to live and work freely in different countries, the NI border, commerce and trade, standards all in the pursuit of this idea of being 'free' And to cap it off we are now creating made up trade terms and deals to mask the term 'no deal' Now you might be happy with that and you have every right to be, but sure as hell isnt what was proposed or what everybody wanted. It's not going away and I make no apologies for highlighting the direction of traffic and not allowing people to just take an ostrich stance and in a little over 12 months times it will all be coming home to roost. Still, at least my new passport will be Blue. I honestly don't get this Remainer obsession with passport colours....we can't keep looking back to times, for instance, when we had an Empire, another Remainer obsession.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 29, 2020 11:14:37 GMT
Nigel has a go at explaining what it means not to be in the EU.......it's so simple that it takes a lot to blur the edges.
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Post by xchpotter on Feb 29, 2020 11:18:53 GMT
It is a very simple question BJR. What type of Brexit is trading under WTO terms more commonly known as? Nigel speaks about it a lot so I know that you know. This is fucking boring. A 'hard' Brexit, a term made-up by a bunch of losers who couldn't stand the fact they'd lost, so they changed the wording of everything to give us a 'hard' Brexit (IE : a proper, true Brexit where we LEAVE the control of the EU) or a 'soft' Brexit (IE : Not Brexit at all because we'd REMAIN under the control of the EU.) A bunch of gulible losers lapped it up as a chance to override democracy. Thankfully the majority of people in this country saw right through it & elected a leader with a huge majority to push through a proper Brexit. There you go, sorted. You can now move on from this boring fucking shit we've talked about on here for the last three bastard years. In a nutshell.
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Post by RedandWhite90 on Feb 29, 2020 11:23:09 GMT
It is a very simple question BJR. What type of Brexit is trading under WTO terms more commonly known as? Nigel speaks about it a lot so I know that you know. I honestly don't know what you are talking about. If you mean a " no deal" Brexit, this has been debated ever since the referendum result, particularly since many people cannot accept the result . It has always been clear to me ( and Nigel, I believe) that leaving the EU and having a trade deal are two separate issues...often conflated to simple to get us to remain by deceit. I've talked about an Australian ( or Japanese, New Zealand, USA ) type deal for years....ie an independent country having a "dea" with another independent country ....or in this case a quasi country called the EU. As DC says it is getting a tad repetitive......I think that we agree on the bare facts don't we........We have actually left the EU at 11.00 pm on 31 January 2020, we are now in a transition period in respect of our new trading relationship, a period scheduled to end on 31 December 2020..........Whatever agreement we end up with I hope that it is how Farage and now Boris are describing it.......control of our borders, fishing, laws, money etc, no control of the European court of Justice ( similar to Australia)...you are hoping that we give the EU jurisdiction over many of those things ( even though we now no longer are part of the EU machine)............We do agree on that Red so I don't get the rest of the " argument" I think in terms of facts we do agree. Where we disagree is on is this fairytale on our future relationship and the sheer importance of having a deal and a good one at that with our nearest trading Bloc. Advocating trading fully on WTO because we don't like what the EU is offering or their own standards will be damaging beyond belief, hence why I stated that I hope our negotiating team are shit hot.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 29, 2020 11:33:00 GMT
I honestly don't know what you are talking about. If you mean a " no deal" Brexit, this has been debated ever since the referendum result, particularly since many people cannot accept the result . It has always been clear to me ( and Nigel, I believe) that leaving the EU and having a trade deal are two separate issues...often conflated to simple to get us to remain by deceit. I've talked about an Australian ( or Japanese, New Zealand, USA ) type deal for years....ie an independent country having a "dea" with another independent country ....or in this case a quasi country called the EU. As DC says it is getting a tad repetitive......I think that we agree on the bare facts don't we........We have actually left the EU at 11.00 pm on 31 January 2020, we are now in a transition period in respect of our new trading relationship, a period scheduled to end on 31 December 2020..........Whatever agreement we end up with I hope that it is how Farage and now Boris are describing it.......control of our borders, fishing, laws, money etc, no control of the European court of Justice ( similar to Australia)...you are hoping that we give the EU jurisdiction over many of those things ( even though we now no longer are part of the EU machine)............We do agree on that Red so I don't get the rest of the " argument" I think in terms of facts we do agree. Where we disagree is on is this fairytale on our future relationship and the sheer importance of having a deal and a good one at that with our nearest trading Bloc. Advocating trading fully on WTO because we don't like what the EU is offering or their own standards will be damaging beyond belief, hence why I stated that I hope our negotiating team are shit hot. I hope that we have a great deal. It's a two way process....the EU need to consider what we are offering. That's not a fairytale. I hope that we continue to assert our economic and political independence, just like any other independent sovereign and democratic country.Not to do so is damaging beyond belief.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 1, 2020 16:06:52 GMT
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Post by Clayton Wood on Mar 1, 2020 16:55:03 GMT
This was part of the €9bn Turkish pre-accession funding from the EU which runs out this year. Given there is no budget set yet (€75bn Brexit hole) it would appear with no new funding lined up Turkey has remembered they can't afford to hold 900k migrants anymore. I seem to remember that full EU border control won't be ready until 2027, so it's down to front line states like Greece, Italy etc to sort it out. Sadly, as usual, humanity becomes the political football again. Edit:https://news.sky.com/story/migrants-try-to-swim-from-greece-to-turkey-then-get-tear-gassed-11946932 (Despite the url it is Turkey>Greece)
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 1, 2020 17:22:29 GMT
This was part of the €9bn Turkish pre-accession funding from the EU which runs out this year. Given there is no budget set yet (€75bn Brexit hole) it would appear with no new funding lined up Turkey has remembered they can't afford to hold 900k migrants anymore. I seem to remember that full EU border control won't be ready until 2027, so it's down to front line states like Greece, Italy etc to sort it out. Sadly, as usual, humanity becomes the political football again. Edit:https://news.sky.com/story/migrants-try-to-swim-from-greece-to-turkey-then-get-tear-gassed-11946932 (Despite the url it is Turkey>Greece) And with the Syrian/ Turkey conflict, the Kurdish question and Greek- Turkish relationship perhaps it's as well we are not in the EU, the trading block.
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Post by felonious on Mar 1, 2020 17:56:39 GMT
This was part of the €9bn Turkish pre-accession funding from the EU which runs out this year. Given there is no budget set yet (€75bn Brexit hole) it would appear with no new funding lined up Turkey has remembered they can't afford to hold 900k migrants anymore. I seem to remember that full EU border control won't be ready until 2027, so it's down to front line states like Greece, Italy etc to sort it out. Sadly, as usual, humanity becomes the political football again. Edit:https://news.sky.com/story/migrants-try-to-swim-from-greece-to-turkey-then-get-tear-gassed-11946932 (Despite the url it is Turkey>Greece) And with the Syrian/ Turkey conflict, the Kurdish question and Greek- Turkish relationship perhaps it's as well we are not in the EU, the trading block. The EU has never been about a trading block....no, no, no.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Mar 1, 2020 19:39:52 GMT
And with the Syrian/ Turkey conflict, the Kurdish question and Greek- Turkish relationship perhaps it's as well we are not in the EU, the trading block. The EU has never been about a trading block....no, no, no. I meant it sarcastically Pierre, as you know.. Thatcher was spot on there...and Benn!
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Post by foghornsgleghorn on Mar 1, 2020 20:08:43 GMT
If the coronavirus moves to the next level perhaps Brexit will be put on the back burner, and the transition period extended indefinitely while energies are focussed things other than making things more difficult with our neighbours.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 1, 2020 21:01:51 GMT
If the coronavirus moves to the next level perhaps Brexit will be put on the back burner, and the transition period extended indefinitely while energies are focussed things other than making things more difficult with our neighbours. I'll give it a couple of weeks until a theory surfaces that the Coronavirus is actually an EU plot to make us rejoin the EU.
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Mar 1, 2020 21:06:56 GMT
And would you like to enlighten us on what your version of a proper Brexit is? Are you a fully signed up member to this new and mythical 'Australia Deal/Agreement' that we have decided to move to by default should the 'Canada' style deal not take off? Or, in the absence of fact do you want to just start crowing about how the people are bored and we should just get on with it regardless of consequences? A proper Brexit is to leave the control of the European Union, we've been over this hundreds of times on this thread. When we've fully left their control we can, hopefully, strike a trade deal, a purely trade deal, if they're not interested in that & still want political control over us then we tell them no thanks & trade on WTO terms. This is all stuff that has been talked about hundreds & hundreds of times on this thread. The European Union is supposedly a trading block, they happily trade with other countries who don't have to be controlled by them, don't have to accept freedom of movement, don't have to accept the European courts etc... etc... It should be no different for us. There's no such thing as purely a trade deal nowadays. Whatever we end up signing with the big players of this world (mainly EU, US and China), we will be handing some sort of control over. And on the other hand, I'm sure we'll be taking some control from other nations in certain trade deals as well.
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Post by mrcoke on Mar 1, 2020 21:41:56 GMT
A proper Brexit is to leave the control of the European Union, we've been over this hundreds of times on this thread. When we've fully left their control we can, hopefully, strike a trade deal, a purely trade deal, if they're not interested in that & still want political control over us then we tell them no thanks & trade on WTO terms. This is all stuff that has been talked about hundreds & hundreds of times on this thread. The European Union is supposedly a trading block, they happily trade with other countries who don't have to be controlled by them, don't have to accept freedom of movement, don't have to accept the European courts etc... etc... It should be no different for us. There's no such thing as purely a trade deal nowadays. Whatever we end up signing with the big players of this world (mainly EU, US and China), we will be handing some sort of control over. And on the other hand, I'm sure we'll be taking some control from other nations in certain trade deals as well. I have an aviary and it's what my feathered friends and I call pecking order. Still with 60 million of us and the 5th biggest economy in the world we should be all right. Just feel sorry for all those poor blighters in Australia, New Zealand, etc. how they must suffer.
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