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Post by foster on Feb 21, 2020 20:28:33 GMT
I think the main issue is the size of the contributions and how long they are expected to last for. Realistically you can't keep paying the weaker countries money if it doesn't look like there are any improvements. As mentioned in an earlier link, funding cuts will need to be made accordingly. But I don't really think that'll be a problem. Most of the UK contribution will likely be made back through the new trade deal.... But will go to the countries we trade with, rather than being allocated elsewhere.
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Post by foster on Feb 21, 2020 20:29:00 GMT
Don't really get this obsession with the EU and their difficulties when we've got enough to sort out at home. Seems a bit pathetic to me. Brexit has happened. Move on. Oh dear What's up?... Did you shit yourself again?
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Post by felonious on Feb 21, 2020 20:31:50 GMT
Oh dear What's up?... Did you shit yourself again? Grow up.
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Post by foster on Feb 21, 2020 20:34:11 GMT
What's up?... Did you shit yourself again? Grow up. Says the guy who just pooped in his pants.
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Post by felonious on Feb 21, 2020 20:41:40 GMT
Says the guy who just pooped in his pants. You're in real danger of sounding very sad
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Post by numpty40 on Feb 21, 2020 22:22:03 GMT
Just imagine if instead of Brexit the French had left. Imagine how the people of the UK would have reacted if the UK government tried to plug the gap left by the French contribution? The EU has never faced anything like this before, interesting times..
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Post by xchpotter on Feb 21, 2020 22:35:30 GMT
Interesting if this is the start of cracks in the EU appearing. You have to hand it to them,they were united at the beginning,,,,but then it was easy to be so when faced with May and the shower working against leaving. Now they are up against a different opponent in Boris who will be able to do what he wants with his majority and suddenly they start to wobble. Any opportunity to divide them further and ram home a better position, well I hope Boris takes it. The EU made it apparent they weren’t happy with the UK having the audacity to leave with a stated intention of making life difficult for us...the favour should be returned ten fold and things made difficult for them....it will bring them to the table sure enough.
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Post by partickpotter on Feb 22, 2020 9:22:37 GMT
Just imagine if instead of Brexit the French had left. Imagine how the people of the UK would have reacted if the UK government tried to plug the gap left by the French contribution? The EU has never faced anything like this before, interesting times.. This graphic helps explain the problem... Europe is not a group of equals - which, I appreciate is stating the obvious. This though also applies to trade. Some parts of Europe are hugely dependent on trade with the UK. Ireland obviously, but also French farmers, German car makers etc... Until now, the EU has presented a solid front in negotiations with Britain. But that could easily fragment as individual interests come to the fore.
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Post by bathstoke on Feb 22, 2020 9:35:53 GMT
Just imagine if instead of Brexit the French had left. Imagine how the people of the UK would have reacted if the UK government tried to plug the gap left by the French contribution? The EU has never faced anything like this before, interesting times.. This graphic helps explain the problem... Europe is not a group of equals - which, I appreciate is stating the obvious. This though also applies to trade. Some parts of Europe are hugely dependent on trade with the UK. Ireland obviously, but also French farmers, German car makers etc... Until now, the EU has presented a solid front in negotiations with Britain. But that could easily fragment as individual interests come to the fore. Iconoclasm
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Post by partickpotter on Feb 22, 2020 9:38:28 GMT
This graphic helps explain the problem... Europe is not a group of equals - which, I appreciate is stating the obvious. This though also applies to trade. Some parts of Europe are hugely dependent on trade with the UK. Ireland obviously, but also French farmers, German car makers etc... Until now, the EU has presented a solid front in negotiations with Britain. But that could easily fragment as individual interests come to the fore. Iconoclasm I think the Eurocrats in Brussels might well agree with you.
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Post by LL Cool Dave on Feb 22, 2020 9:39:34 GMT
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Post by partickpotter on Feb 22, 2020 9:45:42 GMT
Local interests coming to the fore. Portugal considers subsidising UK tourists' post-Brexit healthcareWe could be entering an interesting moment in Brexit. Up to this point a united Europe has dominated negotiations with a fractious UK that resulted in a withdrawal agreement that was heavily compromised. But now, the U.K. is united (well Johnson’s majority means he is able to present a singular position) while the EU seems to be facing internal dissent. The upcoming trade negotiations could be very entertaining.
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Post by franklin66 on Feb 22, 2020 10:00:10 GMT
It's amazing how many people dont understand the policy ITV news came out with a headline "low skill workers BAN" 🤦♂️
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Post by LL Cool Dave on Feb 22, 2020 10:00:49 GMT
It's amazing how many people dont understand the policy ITV news came out with a headline "low skill workers BAN" 🤦♂️ Go on...
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Post by franklin66 on Feb 22, 2020 10:03:41 GMT
It's amazing how many people dont understand the policy ITV news came out with a headline "low skill workers BAN" 🤦♂️ Go on... There are exceptions for specific areas of employment. It's not a ban it tightens up rules but allows for flexibility. And if it's found to need changes they will make those changes.
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Post by partickpotter on Feb 22, 2020 10:16:26 GMT
There are exceptions for specific areas of employment. It's not a ban it tightens up rules but allows for flexibility. And if it's found to need changes they will make those changes. Exactly. There are so many loopholes that there won’t be much change in reality.
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Post by franklin66 on Feb 22, 2020 10:22:34 GMT
There are exceptions for specific areas of employment. It's not a ban it tightens up rules but allows for flexibility. And if it's found to need changes they will make those changes. Exactly. There are so many loopholes that there won’t be much change in reality. It's funny a bloke on the news last night said who's going to pick my carrots!!! Answer = the same people who are picking them now lol.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 22, 2020 10:31:18 GMT
For the more socialist minded and left wing ones amongst us isn't it a bit " Colonialistic" to expect these foreigners / " others" to do the so called menial tasks that we won't do? images.app.goo.gl/oC5mBLQM17gZZRZF9Perhaps the root of the problem is not paying the " going rste" or as my father in law used to say " false values " It's ridiculous to pay footballers millions and perhaps even worse, people like Lineker, out of public money to talk about football. As well as skilled work perhaps society should pay a premium for jobs that no one really wantts to do butare extremely important such as wiping an old man's bottom or cleaning toilets. At times when MRSA has spread through our hospitals it could be argued that the cleaner is as important as the surgeon. Perhaps the price of picked fruit has to rise. As others have said the criteria for immigration can be adjusted / be flexible but I think that this government is setting out its stall and principles..' we make these decisions now, made in the best interest of the country. If say Labour want to change the rules they need to put the policies forward to win an election...who controls immigration? Perhaps Labour should have embraced Brexit
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Post by franklin66 on Feb 22, 2020 10:45:07 GMT
For the more socialist minded and left wing ones amongst us isn't it a bit " Colonialistic" to expect these foreigners / " others" to do the so called menial tasks that we won't do? images.app.goo.gl/oC5mBLQM17gZZRZF9I'm not sure anyone is suggesting on here that scenario. In fact we're critical of the lazy brits.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Feb 22, 2020 11:01:37 GMT
For the more socialist minded and left wing ones amongst us isn't it a bit " Colonialistic" to expect these foreigners / " others" to do the so called menial tasks that we won't do? images.app.goo.gl/oC5mBLQM17gZZRZF9I'm not sure anyone is suggesting on here that scenario. In fact we're critical of the lazy brits. Not sure I've made my point clearly Franklin....there are some horrible tasks that I wouldn't want to do, most of us wouldn't....they may ( or in some cases in the caring industry " may not" just a different set of skills) be low skilled....why should we expect others from overseas to do them? Perhaps we need to pay more. Personally I think I'd allow people from ( particularly Eastern) Europe in , if they want to come, to do seasonal fruit picking on temporary visas as part of a cultural exchange/ experience.....but it does not alter the fact that some of our indigenous people who are able should contribute ( perhaps just do 2/3 days a week for the equivalent of benefits)....you never know, they might feel better for it themselves.
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Post by franklin66 on Feb 22, 2020 11:14:02 GMT
I'm not sure anyone is suggesting on here that scenario. In fact we're critical of the lazy brits. Not sure I've made my point clearly Franklin....there are some horrible tasks that I wouldn't want to do, most of us wouldn't....they may ( or in some cases in the caring industry " may not" just a different set of skills) be low skilled....why should we expect others from overseas to do them? Perhaps we need to pay more. I've no idea I dont expect anyone to work for nothing it's a fair days pay for a fair days work. And again nobody on here is expecting or saying overseas workers should do those tasks. I have a mate in Holland who's job includes sewers and all that entails. "Those" unpleasant jobs need to be done by somebody but with increased competition through tighter controls it might drive up wages and rightly so. The only people complaining are employers who seem to think they will lose their foreign cheap labour force and by default have to pay more.
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Post by franklin66 on Feb 22, 2020 11:17:22 GMT
I'm not sure anyone is suggesting on here that scenario. In fact we're critical of the lazy brits. Not sure I've made my point clearly Franklin....there are some horrible tasks that I wouldn't want to do, most of us wouldn't....they may ( or in some cases in the caring industry " may not" just a different set of skills) be low skilled....why should we expect others from overseas to do them? Perhaps we need to pay more. Personally I think I'd allow people from ( particularly Eastern) Europe in , if they want to come, to do seasonal fruit picking on temporary visas as part of a cultural exchange/ experience.....but it does not alter the fact that some of our indigenous people who are able should contribute ( perhaps just do 2/3 days a week for the equivalent of benefits)....you never know, they might feel better for it themselves. All agreed ref the edit. They can come over it's been made clear there are exceptions for such workers. And again this thread if full of people agreeing about able brits being made to contribute. No argument from me on any of that. Edit: sorry the immigration thread not this one.
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Post by claytonscrubs on Feb 22, 2020 11:19:42 GMT
Poor Leo... It’s all gone a bit wrong hasn’t it 😬
They’ve stitched him up like a kipper!
Don’t you just love karma?
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Post by franklin66 on Feb 22, 2020 11:23:30 GMT
Poor Leo... It’s all gone a bit wrong hasn’t it 😬 They’ve stitched him up like a kipper! Don’t you just love karma? I dont understand they only want to pay if they get more back? Otherwise it's a no...🤣
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Post by bathstoke on Feb 22, 2020 11:24:36 GMT
Said from the off that nobody will come out of this unscathed...
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Post by swampmongrel on Feb 22, 2020 11:45:50 GMT
Did fruit picking used to pay (relatively) more pre EU FOM?
I assume that it did but I don’t know. Cockneys used to travel en masses to pick hops. Presumably, the financial incentive was quite high.
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Post by crapslinger on Feb 22, 2020 11:55:30 GMT
x 7 years (plus increases) =£63bn+. Add to that new funding for environment, "security" etc and you can see how they have a €75bn hole. Anyway, they've all buggered off home and will come back next month and thereafter until they get it "right". Wonder if they had time to discuss their stance on out FTA as planned The frugal four can fork out When the scots. get their independence they can apply to join in EU in their own right, I am sure they will be welcomed with open arms , they can fill the financial black hole
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Post by mrcoke on Feb 22, 2020 12:41:33 GMT
Local interests coming to the fore. Portugal considers subsidising UK tourists' post-Brexit healthcareWe could be entering an interesting moment in Brexit. Up to this point a united Europe has dominated negotiations with a fractious UK that resulted in a withdrawal agreement that was heavily compromised. But now, the U.K. is united (well Johnson’s majority means he is able to present a singular position) while the EU seems to be facing internal dissent. The upcoming trade negotiations could be very entertaining.That's true, but if the EU countries can't come together to agree a trade agreement with the UK because they are fighting between each other, what happens? No trade agreement with the EU hits the EU harder than the UK, but the UK is hit harder than any individual EU country, so everyone loses out. We are now seeing the reasons why the politicians and EU bureaucrats wanted to continue with the status quo, and keep the UK in, funding the party though trade balance (>£60b pa) and net financial contribution year in year out for over 40 years. Everyone blaming "Europe" for rules, regulations, taxes, etc. and politicians free from blame. The EU must now be bitterly regretting not giving more to David Cameron to take back to the British people to persuade the country to reject Brexit. Their own obstinacy will lead to their own demise. Hopefully sense will prevail and German, French and Dutch industry and commerce will knock the heads together of their politicians and they come to a compromise. Unfortunately compromise means some people will lose out on both sides. Compromise on manufactured goods and financial services is achievable I think. I think British fishermen will grin and bear not getting fishing rights back, but I suspect French farmers will "go to war" over having their subsidies cut. I am not worried about the immigration issue. We were all immigrants once, if you go back far enough, most come here to make a net contribution to our society, and I think there will be exceptions made to the earnings policy for certain trades/activities like fishing, agriculture, and health and welfare services. The government is sending out a general warning to everyone particularly the "black economy" (like car washing) that the party is over and you can no longer bring in people to carry out menial tasks and evade the tax system. When it comes to thrashing out the detail, commonsense will prevail and we will allow and control immigration where it contributes to our GDP, balance of trade, and social services. We need to dig in and demand a "Canada agreement" with no strings attached. We have the upper hand now we have left. The EU will still continue to enjoy a huge trade balance with the UK, they will just have to get their act together and get more efficient not to lose it in years to come.
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Post by partickpotter on Feb 22, 2020 13:18:19 GMT
Local interests coming to the fore. Portugal considers subsidising UK tourists' post-Brexit healthcareWe could be entering an interesting moment in Brexit. Up to this point a united Europe has dominated negotiations with a fractious UK that resulted in a withdrawal agreement that was heavily compromised. But now, the U.K. is united (well Johnson’s majority means he is able to present a singular position) while the EU seems to be facing internal dissent. The upcoming trade negotiations could be very entertaining.That's true, but if the EU countries can't come together to agree a trade agreement with the UK because they are fighting between each other, what happens? No trade agreement with the EU hits the EU harder than the UK, but the UK is hit harder than any individual EU country, so everyone loses out. We are now seeing the reasons why the politicians and EU bureaucrats wanted to continue with the status quo, and keep the UK in, funding the party though trade balance (>£60b pa) and net financial contribution year in year out for over 40 years. Everyone blaming "Europe" for rules, regulations, taxes, etc. and politicians free from blame. The EU must now be bitterly regretting not giving more to David Cameron to take back to the British people to persuade the country to reject Brexit. Their own obstinacy will lead to their own demise. Hopefully sense will prevail and German, French and Dutch industry and commerce will knock the heads together of their politicians and they come to a compromise. Unfortunately compromise means some people will lose out on both sides. Compromise on manufactured goods and financial services is achievable I think. I think British fishermen will grin and bear not getting fishing rights back, but I suspect French farmers will "go to war" over having their subsidies cut. I am not worried about the immigration issue. We were all immigrants once, if you go back far enough, most come here to make a net contribution to our society, and I think there will be exceptions made to the earnings policy for certain trades/activities like fishing, agriculture, and health and welfare services. The government is sending out a general warning to everyone particularly the "black economy" (like car washing) that the party is over and you can no longer bring in people to carry out menial tasks and evade the tax system. When it comes to thrashing out the detail, commonsense will prevail and we will allow and control immigration where it contributes to our GDP, balance of trade, and social services. We need to dig in and demand a "Canada agreement" with no strings attached. We have the upper hand now we have left. The EU will still continue to enjoy a huge trade balance with the UK, they will just have to get their act together and get more efficient not to lose it in years to come. The EU don’t seem to like the politics of a Canada style deal, but the economics of it seem to make good sense - for everyone’s sake let’s hope realpolitik kicks in.
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Post by xchpotter on Feb 22, 2020 13:41:12 GMT
Poor Leo... It’s all gone a bit wrong hasn’t it 😬 They’ve stitched him up like a kipper! Don’t you just love karma? Couldn’t have happened to a nicer, smug twat. Reminds me of the mouthy short arse in a crowd giving it large, but when it comes to having to put up, they run off to the the back looking for their mum.
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