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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 27, 2017 2:46:01 GMT
I wonder at what point (or possibly pointS) that Boothen stand was developed ultimately into the one in the picture below?
I can't find a single reference on line to this stand being built. The picture is from 1958, just two years before the 'final' Boothen stand began construction and it had obviously been there for a good while.
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Post by Gods on Feb 27, 2017 9:50:39 GMT
The roofs on the Stoke end are the terraced houses in Selwyn street i think. Just a though here, does anyone think the 'mound' on the Stoke End could be a deliberate attempt to form sloped terracing.?
It's 100% a roof over the Stoke End mate.
And yes you are right, this picture confirms that the 'mound' was a later addition used in an attempt to create a terrace, it also confirms that your map from 1923 was correct also.
lordb bayernoatcake Gods andystokey ChesterStokie Staffsoatcake
Fair enough, I'm convinced! Is it me or is there something weird about that picture? The white line marking on the pitch, which line is it? It doesn't seem to comply with any line I would expect to find looking up the pitch towards the goal posts at the opposite end. I can only think it could be the line which marks the right edge of the penalty area but then if it is the players seem to be in some very strange positions. The players look like they are in half way line positions yet I can't make a half way line there tally with where the goal posts are. Do you see what I mean? |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 27, 2017 12:20:42 GMT
Fair enough, I'm convinced! Is it me or is there something weird about that picture? The white line marking on the pitch, which line is it? It doesn't seem to comply with any line I would expect to find looking up the pitch towards the goal posts at the opposite end. I can only think it could be the line which marks the right edge of the penalty area but then if it is the players seem to be in some very strange positions. The players look like they are in half way line positions yet I can't make a half way line there tally with where the goal posts are. Do you see what I mean? Yes I wondered exactly the same thing when I first saw the picture and then ultimately concluded that it had to be the penalty box, which had in actual fact only been introduced into the game just five years earlier. Did you know that penalties were only introduced as a result of us receiving a free-kick on the goal line (which the keeper easily smothered) in the dying moments of an FA Cup quarter final in the 1890's? |
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Post by Davef on Feb 27, 2017 12:34:06 GMT
I wonder at what point (or possibly pointS) that Boothen stand was developed ultimately into the one in the picture below?
I can't find a single reference on line to this stand being built. The picture is from 1958, just two years before the 'final' Boothen stand began construction and it had obviously been there for a good while.
According to the SCFC encyclopedia Paul, that Boothen Stand was built in the early 1920's. The club actually won promotion to the First Division in 1922* and a wealthy businessman had joined the board a year earlier. Edit: We were relegated in 1923! |
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Post by nott1 on Feb 27, 2017 12:35:29 GMT
I remember the GASOMETER, it wasn't a tower then.
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Post by Gods on Feb 27, 2017 12:40:03 GMT
Fair enough, I'm convinced! Is it me or is there something weird about that picture? The white line marking on the pitch, which line is it? It doesn't seem to comply with any line I would expect to find looking up the pitch towards the goal posts at the opposite end. I can only think it could be the line which marks the right edge of the penalty area but then if it is the players seem to be in some very strange positions. The players look like they are in half way line positions yet I can't make a half way line there tally with where the goal posts are. Do you see what I mean? Yes I wondered exactly the same thing when I first saw the picture and then ultimately concluded that it had to be the penalty box, which had in actual fact only been introduced into the game just five years earlier? Did you know that penalties were only introduced as a result of us receiving a free-kick on the goal line (which the keeper easily smothered) in the dying moments of an FA Cup quarter final in the 1890's? Can you see there is one player with his hands on his hips? If it is really the edge of the penalty area could you really imagine that today, the ball in play on the edge of the box and there is some fella stood there with his hands on his hips  I think the MOTD 'expert' analysts would spontaneously combust  |
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Post by nott1 on Feb 27, 2017 12:42:10 GMT
I wonder at what point (or possibly pointS) that Boothen stand was developed ultimately into the one in the picture below?
I can't find a single reference on line to this stand being built. The picture is from 1958, just two years before the 'final' Boothen stand began construction and it had obviously been there for a good while.
The new Boothen Stand was built in 1963 and I had a season ticket there near to the Stoke End. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 27, 2017 12:51:13 GMT
I wonder at what point (or possibly pointS) that Boothen stand was developed ultimately into the one in the picture below?
I can't find a single reference on line to this stand being built. The picture is from 1958, just two years before the 'final' Boothen stand began construction and it had obviously been there for a good while.
According to the SCFC encyclopedia Paul, that Boothen Stand was built in the early 1920's. The club actually won promotion to the First Division in 1922* and a wealthy businessman had joined the board a year earlier. Edit: We were relegated in 1923! Thanks for the reply Dave but in the aerial pictures posted earlier in the thread from the 1930's that stand doesn't appear to be there? On those pictures it looks like it's still the stand from the 1906 picture that was posted. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 12:51:31 GMT
I wonder at what point (or possibly pointS) that Boothen stand was developed ultimately into the one in the picture below?
I can't find a single reference on line to this stand being built. The picture is from 1958, just two years before the 'final' Boothen stand began construction and it had obviously been there for a good while.
Neil Franklin not sure of the date |
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Post by nott1 on Feb 27, 2017 12:54:50 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 27, 2017 13:05:01 GMT
The photographic evidence contradicts quite a bit of this though. We've already seen that there were covered parts of the ground at the Stoke End and on the Butler Street side prior to 1919 and (as I said) I can't really see a new 'main' stand on the Boothen side having been built in the 20's from the photographs that we've seen. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 27, 2017 13:07:45 GMT
I wonder at what point (or possibly pointS) that Boothen stand was developed ultimately into the one in the picture below?
I can't find a single reference on line to this stand being built. The picture is from 1958, just two years before the 'final' Boothen stand began construction and it had obviously been there for a good while.
Neil Franklin not sure of the date Great picture (obviously taken in the 40's) and yes it's the same Boothen stand, although the one from 1958 appears to have been developed a bit at the front. |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 13:15:12 GMT
Possibly 1947 Part of a feature on Franklin,
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 13:17:48 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 14:04:18 GMT
Players coming out from the corner of the Boothen End/Stand  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 14:14:06 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 27, 2017 14:17:35 GMT
Players coming out from the corner of the Boothen End/Stand
Good find, it'd be interesting to know what year the picture was taken?
dict.eudic.net/dicts/en/Victoria_Ground.html
"The players changing rooms were set in the corner of the ground which also included a stove so players could keep warm. Above the changing 'hut' was the directors box, a rather primitive building but could hold around 12 people. During the early 1920s a new, mainly wooden main stand was erected alongside the 'hut' and this could hold 2,000 fans. By 1930 Stoke had added 'City' to their name and the Boothen End was terraced and later covered, and consequently the ground lost its oval shape. 1935, when the likes of Stanley Matthews was beginning to draw in the crowds, the Butler Street Stand was built, giving seating to 5,000 people. In front of the seats was a small paddock, room for another 2,000"
If the Boothen stand could hold 2,000 and the Butler Street Stand and paddock, 7,000, then that would mean there there must have been over 20,000 in each of the Stoke End and Boothen terraces for the Arsenal game capacity crowd of 51,000 in 1935!
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 27, 2017 14:22:12 GMT
Yes you can see in that picture that the Boothen stand at that time was far, far bigger than the 2,000 capacity one that was built in the 1920's, no idea when it was built though.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 27, 2017 15:20:02 GMT
Footage from 1920, the ground looks pretty much exactly the same as it did in the 1906 photographs.
The Stoke End is still covered and the embankment hasn't been built yet.
Team from the 1919/1920 season, it still looks like the original Boothen stand, seen in the 1906 pictures is there.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 15:33:29 GMT
Players coming out from the corner of the Boothen End/Stand
Good find, it'd be interesting to know what year the picture was taken?
dict.eudic.net/dicts/en/Victoria_Ground.html
"The players changing rooms were set in the corner of the ground which also included a stove so players could keep warm. Above the changing 'hut' was the directors box, a rather primitive building but could hold around 12 people. During the early 1920s a new, mainly wooden main stand was erected alongside the 'hut' and this could hold 2,000 fans. By 1930 Stoke had added 'City' to their name and the Boothen End was terraced and later covered, and consequently the ground lost its oval shape. 1935, when the likes of Stanley Matthews was beginning to draw in the crowds, the Butler Street Stand was built, giving seating to 5,000 people. In front of the seats was a small paddock, room for another 2,000"
If the Boothen stand could hold 2,000 and the Butler Street Stand and paddock, 7,000, then that would mean there there must have been over 20,000 in each of the Stoke End and Boothen terraces for the Arsenal game capacity crowd of 51,000 in 1935!
Early 60's Late 50's?? This shows the ground in 63 from the clubs website,  Boothern stand/corner not yet complete, . players sill coming out from the corner? like yourself i'm struggling to find anything from the earlier rebuild. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 27, 2017 15:55:12 GMT
Good find, it'd be interesting to know what year the picture was taken?
dict.eudic.net/dicts/en/Victoria_Ground.html
"The players changing rooms were set in the corner of the ground which also included a stove so players could keep warm. Above the changing 'hut' was the directors box, a rather primitive building but could hold around 12 people. During the early 1920s a new, mainly wooden main stand was erected alongside the 'hut' and this could hold 2,000 fans. By 1930 Stoke had added 'City' to their name and the Boothen End was terraced and later covered, and consequently the ground lost its oval shape. 1935, when the likes of Stanley Matthews was beginning to draw in the crowds, the Butler Street Stand was built, giving seating to 5,000 people. In front of the seats was a small paddock, room for another 2,000"
If the Boothen stand could hold 2,000 and the Butler Street Stand and paddock, 7,000, then that would mean there there must have been over 20,000 in each of the Stoke End and Boothen terraces for the Arsenal game capacity crowd of 51,000 in 1935!
Early 60's Late 50's?? This shows the ground in 63 from the clubs website, Boothern stand/corner not yet complete, . players sill coming out from the corner? like yourself i'm struggling to find anything from the earlier rebuild.
Yes the 'final' Boothen stand was done in sections and started in (I think) 1960 and completed in 1963.
I've found this picture from 1927/28 but the stand looks different from the one you posted from the 1940's, as the stanchions look a lot closer together resembling the stand from much earlier.
 
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 15:58:07 GMT
1921 where was this taken?  |
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 16:06:33 GMT
Pic of the gasometer  |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 27, 2017 16:17:10 GMT
1921 where was this taken?
Yes I saw that but couldn't be sure it was taken at the Victoria Ground. If it is, then I guess it's taken in front of the 'old' Boothen stand.
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Post by Davef on Feb 27, 2017 16:22:17 GMT
 This is a picture of Stoke's forward line from the 1927/28 season. The stand looks very similar to the one in the Neil Franklin photo above. I think perhaps the only difference to the ones from the 1950s is that maybe the paddock terracing was built up? |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 27, 2017 16:32:31 GMT
This is a picture of Stoke's forward line from the 1927/28 season. The stand looks very similar to the one in the Neil Franklin photo above. I think perhaps the only difference to the ones from the 1950s is that maybe the paddock terracing was built up?
Yes good shout Dave but how did they manage to build the paddock terracing up?
On that picture and on the Franklin one, the stanchions seem to be at the front of the stand and the roof covers the whole of the terrace but on this one the stanchions seem to be a lot further back, the stand looks considerably bigger in the later picture but I do agree that they do look very similar.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2017 16:55:34 GMT
1921 where was this taken?
Yes I saw that but couldn't be sure it was taken at the Victoria Ground. If it is, then I guess it's taken in front of the 'old' Boothen stand.
Those seat back do look familiar! |
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Post by Davef on Feb 27, 2017 17:12:35 GMT
This is a picture of Stoke's forward line from the 1927/28 season. The stand looks very similar to the one in the Neil Franklin photo above. I think perhaps the only difference to the ones from the 1950s is that maybe the paddock terracing was built up?
Yes good shout Dave but how did they manage to build the paddock terracing up?
On that picture and on the Franklin one, the stanchions seem to be at the front of the stand and the roof covers the whole of the terrace but on this one the stanchions seem to be a lot further back, the stand looks considerably bigger in the later picture but I do agree that they do look very similar.
Paul, In his book Simon Inglis writes that in 1936 the pitch was moved 17 feet towards the Butler Street Stand and both paddocks were sunk below pitch level. He's a very respected and thorough author and he makes no reference to any other Stand being built on Boothen Road between 1922 and 1960. If I get time, I'll try and wordscan his Victoria Ground history. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Feb 27, 2017 18:50:00 GMT
Yes good shout Dave but how did they manage to build the paddock terracing up?
On that picture and on the Franklin one, the stanchions seem to be at the front of the stand and the roof covers the whole of the terrace but on this one the stanchions seem to be a lot further back, the stand looks considerably bigger in the later picture but I do agree that they do look very similar.
Paul, In his book Simon Inglis writes that in 1936 the pitch was moved 17 feet towards the Butler Street Stand and both paddocks were sunk below pitch level. He's a very respected and thorough author and he makes no reference to any other Stand being built on Boothen Road between 1922 and 1960. If I get time, I'll try and wordscan his Victoria Ground history.
Wow that's an excellent answer Dave, it makes total sense and it also explains why the paddocks can't be seen on the aerial pics from 1935 and 1932ish.
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Post by jezzascfc on Feb 27, 2017 19:14:10 GMT
I am afraid that I have no input on this issue other than to say that this has been the most interesting thread I've read on the Oatie for some time!
I still believe that we could, and perhaps, should have upgraded the Vic to stay there into our Premier League years.
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