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Post by Clayton Wood on Mar 16, 2017 21:43:54 GMT
"The same site was occupied by the Wild West Show on the occasion of the only other visit to the district some 13 years back."
So if this is correct, then it means that the first show wasn't staged at Staffordshire County Cricket Ground at all but was indeed held at the Racecourse. I find it very had to believe that the Sentinel would have got this wrong when the two events took place so close together. You have to remember that this was the biggest thing that had ever happened in Stoke. The local newspaper surely wouldn't get the location wrong, I guess it would be like The Rolling Stones having played at the Brit in 2004 and then in 2017 they reported that the concert was actually staged at Vale Park - they just wouldn't get something so fundamental wrong.
And of course if the first one was staged at the Racecourse, and Sweetings Field was at the Racecourse, then I guess there's a possibility that the picture below could in actual fact be a picture of where we played before we moved to the Vic ... yes I know there's a lot of if's there but still. I guess we're back to trying to identify the buildings at the back of the picture.
This may be a generic advertising photo as it appears in Southport visiter photo no 4. Not conclusive that it's not Stoke, but crops up elsewhere. My granddad (b1901,d1971) told me when I was a kid that he went to this show when he was a young kid and could just about remember it. Wish I'd quizzed him about it more now!! |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 16, 2017 22:07:49 GMT
At the turn of the last century one of the 'Greatest Shows on Earth' came to Stoke on Trent to perform in Boothen/Sideway on land later to be bought by The Michelin. Buffalo Bills Wild West Show with Sitting Bull & Wild Bill Cody. Attracted attendances of over 250,000 to the event. Most people came by train then walked down Longsdale Street & Campbell Road, past The Vic, to the show. Stokes football ground was too small to host the event given the massive amount of interest at the time. Stoke on Trent was one of a handful of places in Britain where the show took place. Must have been fantastic.
1891: Come and have a go if you think you're hard enough!
Sentinel claiming it was held at Staffordshire Cricket Ground. www.stokesentinel.co.uk/nostalgia-when-buffalo-bill-s-wild-west-show-came-to-stoke/story-30070710-detail/story.html but I've seen other reports (like your one) suggesting it took place at the Racecourse.
The Photo seems to originate from This collection A photographic historian for Wyoming  |
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Post by Kenilworth_Stokies on Mar 16, 2017 22:48:05 GMT
Yeah, those Buffalo Bill photos could have been taken anywhere. I'm pretty sure I've seen a similar photo in relation to his visit to Bristol. Here's one for Germany, for example, with the same tents:  If you have a scan through this he seems to have been intrigued by his visit to Stoke. No pictures though I'm afraid: codyarchive.org/texts/wfc.bks00009.html |
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 16, 2017 23:02:19 GMT
Yeah, those Buffalo Bill photos could have been taken anywhere. I'm pretty sure I've seen a similar photo in relation to his visit to Bristol. Here's one for Germany, for example, with the same tents: If you have a scan through this he seems to have been intrigued by his visit to Stoke. No pictures though I'm afraid: codyarchive.org/texts/wfc.bks00009.htmlA few interesting things in there. It says they closed the show in Hanley, North Staffordshire. Could College Road and the old cricket ground be classed as Hanley? It's a stretch I know. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 17, 2017 0:29:18 GMT
The Photo seems to originate from This collection A photographic historian for Wyoming
Great find Burnside.
The original picture is almost certainly nothing to do with Stoke now it would seem, fantastic that so many people are engaging on this. 
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 17, 2017 0:39:22 GMT
Yeah, those Buffalo Bill photos could have been taken anywhere. I'm pretty sure I've seen a similar photo in relation to his visit to Bristol. Here's one for Germany, for example, with the same tents: If you have a scan through this he seems to have been intrigued by his visit to Stoke. No pictures though I'm afraid: codyarchive.org/texts/wfc.bks00009.htmlA few interesting things in there. It says they closed the show in Hanley, North Staffordshire. Could College Road and the old cricket ground be classed as Hanley? It's a stretch I know.
"September 1904 saw the show return to England and tour the north before heading back to Stoke on Trent for the final show on Friday 21st October at the Agricultural Show Field, Birches Head, Hanley – just a few miles from where it had begun six months earlier."
www.blackcountrybugle.co.uk/wild-west-collector146s-special-memento-buffalo-cody/story-20122286-detail/story.html
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Post by OldStokie on Mar 17, 2017 0:43:37 GMT
I can say one thing prety much for certain considering that one of my passions is art deco... those building in the background are more in the continental modern style than art deco. And at the top of those 'modern' buildings you can see air conditioning chimneys, which would confirm my suspicions. As a matter of fact I would even go as far as to say that it is continental because in the background at the top left you can see an old church that would be more at home in Portugal than the UK.
OS.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 17, 2017 0:44:29 GMT
Ah awesome! So it was actually in Stoke 3 times and not the 2 we thought. I'm going to try and do some digging myself but I'm not sure if the resource I have access to has much on local history. I would hope it would but we shall see. |
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Post by cheeesfreeex on Mar 17, 2017 1:39:25 GMT
Catching up with this... hope this isn't a repeat and might add some context...
"In the early 19th century Stoke Wakes were still held on the first Sunday of August, (fn. 321) the church being dedicated to St. Peter ad Vincula (1 August). By the middle of the century, however, the whole week following this Sunday was 'a popular holiday for pleasure and amusement throughout the whole parish'. (fn. 322) In 1850 there was horse-racing on the Monday and Tuesday on a course 'formed for the occasion in Boothen Meadows', a site now occupied by the Michelin tyre factory. (fn. 323) Racing continued during the next decade but evidently ceased after 1860, probably because of the bad state of trade in 1861 which reduced the scale of the wakes generally that year."
Interesting article on local history, now I'll have to look into the crash of '61....
Stoke is a shithole.....
"The main problem, that of drainage, had by the late 1840's become very serious. Disease caused by inadequate and filthy privies and by accumulations of ashes and refuse was general, although Penkhull's high situation made it healthier than other parts of the district; Boothen Road, Welch Street, Wharf Street, the three Cliff Squares, Thomas Street, Pleasant Road, and the side streets off Liverpool Road were noted as particularly insanitary and feverridden. (fn. 61) The main streets, while generally macadamized and provided with flagged or bricked sidewalks, were not regularly cleaned, and, though the turnpike trustees had their roads scraped, the clerk to the commissioners considered that Stoke was 'badly off in this respect, worse than any other town in England'. (fn. 62) In the town itself these insanitary conditions were greatly aggravated by the existence of extensive waste land in the centre which was never dry, by the stagnant state of the Newcastle Canal, and by the flooding of the area 'by filthy water from the Foul-hay Brook' and water backed up from the Upper Boothen Mill on the Trent; cellars could not be drained so that as a result of this flooding several of them were perpetually wet, while the streets were always muddy. (fn. 63) There was only one main public sewer. This was the Boothen Drain, built earlier in the century by the parish at the suggestion of the rector to drain the glebe land and the churchyard and running down Glebe Street to the meadows by the Trent near the Lower Boothen Mill. Even this was not cleaned out. (fn. 64) In the late 1840's the sewer was cleaned and 'eye-holes' were inserted every 50 yards, (fn. 65) the beginning of a gradual improvement in the town's drainage. Efforts were made to keep the main and side drains clear; (fn. 66) another main public sewer was built in the 1850's along Liverpool Road to the Boothen Drain; (fn. 67) drainage work was begun at Trent Vale in 1852; (fn. 68) there were plans in 1854–5 for a new drain at Stoke Lane (fn. 69) and in 1864 for another from Penkhull churchyard down to Penkhull Terrace; (fn. 70) a sewer had been built from Hartshill to Stoke by the end of 1866; (fn. 71) orders were given for the cleansing of the Fowlea Brook in 1868 and 1869, including the clearance of the mud deposit at the junction with the Trent; (fn. 72) sewerage was provided for Oakhill in 1882–3; (fn. 73) Charles Lynam was appointed surveyor in 1860 at a salary of £20. (fn. 74) In 1879 the corporation bought the 60-acre Sideway farm on the Fenton side of the Trent and within three years had opened a sewage disposal works there. (fn. 75) An attempt by the commissioners in 1851 to buy and dismantle the Upper Boothen Mill was unsuccessful because of the high compensation demanded by the tenant, (fn. 76) but 30 years later the corporation concluded an agreement with the rector and the mill was bought and demolished. (fn. 77)
Other measures for improving public health included the opening of the baths in Park Street, London Road, in 1860 as part of the Herbert Minton Memorial Scheme and their extension in the early 1880's; (fn. 78) the replacement of privies by water closets —40 in 1897, 300 in 1900; (fn. 79) attempts from the 1850's onwards to deal with the smoke nuisance caused by factories; (fn. 80) the opening of a refuse destructor with the electricity works in 1904. (fn. 81) By 1909 there were 6,238 water closets and 1,565 cesspits; there were 2,739 covered ashpits, 4,876 dustbins, and 580 open pits. (fn. 82)
The pollution of the Fowlea Brook, the Lyme Brook, and the Trent presented a serious problem as the Potteries area developed. Parts of Wolstanton, Tunstall, Burslem, and Hanley discharged their sewage into the Fowlea Brook; Newcastle and the Stoke Union Workhouse discharged into the Lyme Brook; the Bucknall area and part of Hanley discharged into the Trent. Stoke suffered particularly because of its situation on all three rivers downstream from these centres of population. The fact that Stoke's own drainage flowed into the Fowlea Brook and the Trent made matters worse. Even the building of various sewage-disposal works throughout the Potteries did not completely solve the problem, and Stoke's continual complaints to the various local authorities concerned persisted into the 20th century. (fn. 83)
Restrictions were placed on burials in the churchyards of St. Peter's, Stoke, and St. Thomas's, Penkhull, in 1856. (fn. 84) A burial board of nine members was set up by the ratepayers in 1867. (fn. 85) In 1868 2 acres of land on the opposite side of Church Street from St. Peter's were consecrated as a new burial ground. The land was given by the rector and the patron, and the cost of laying it out, £900, was met by a 7d. rate. (fn. 86) In 1882 both St. Peter's and Holy Trinity, Hartshill, were closed for burials and further restrictions were placed on their churchyards. (fn. 87) Burial powers were vested in the borough council in 1883, (fn. 88) and the corporation cemetery at Penkhull, 21 acres in area, was opened in the following year. (fn. 89) A further 3 acres was added in 1905. (fn. 90) The closing of the 1868 burial ground was ordered by the council in 1893. (fn. 91)
The North Staffordshire Infirmary was moved from Etruria to the Hartshill portion of The Mount estate in 1869. The foundation-stone of the new buildings was laid by the Prince of Wales in 1866. The infirmary was one of the first civil hospitals in the kingdom to be built on the pavilion system and it is said that this scheme was adopted on the advice of Florence Nightingale. With the development of the eye department the name was changed in 1890 to the North Staffordshire Infirmary and Eye Hospital, (fn. 92) and in 1925 the name was again changed to the North Staffordshire Royal Infirmary. (fn. 93) A temporary smallpox hospital was built at Penkhull by the Hanley, Stoke, and Fenton Joint Hospital Board in 1883, but it proved impossible to secure a renewal of the lease in 1886 and a new hospital was opened at Bucknall instead, (fn. 94) The North Staffordshire Blind and Deaf School was opened at the Penkhull end of The Mount estate in 1897. (fn. 95) The Cripples' Home opened at Hanchurch in 1911 was later moved to the Church Institute in Stoke and then to premises in Woodhouse Street. In 1918 it was reopened at Longfield Cottage in Hartshill Road as the Hartshill Orthopaedic Hospital. (fn. 96) The City General Hospital in London Road occupies the buildings of the former Stoke and Wolstanton Union workhouse, incorporating the buildings of the Stoke parish workhouse, erected in 1832–3. (fn. 97)
OTHER PUBLIC SERVICES. In the late 1840's Stoke's water-supply was dependent on two public pumps and a public well. A second well was destroyed by the building of the railway at this time. (fn. 98) A supply was laid on to part of the town in 1849 by the Potteries Waterworks Company established in 1847, (fn. 99) but there were frequent complaints of its inadequacy. Thus, when a fire broke out at 'The Noah's Ark', Hartshill, in 1856, the fire brigade was held up for two hours owing to lack of water in the mains. (fn. 100) Two years later the company was notified that there was frequently no supply to the fire plugs at Penkhull, (fn. 101) and in 1872 there was inadequate water for fighting a fire at Hartshill church. (fn. 102) In the same year the Local Government Board's inspector attributed the large increase in mortality in the Stoke area partly to the inadequate water-supply. (fn. 103) At the end of 1873 the waterworks company was asked to extend its mains to Boothen and to the part of Basford still without a supply; but in June 1876 Boothen at least still had no supply and was presumably still dependent on its 'town pump', the repair of which had been ordered in 1874 and whose water was declared unfit for drinking in 1881, and on the well which in 1881 was ordered to be closed as unfit for domestic use. (fn. 104) An old public well in Spring Meadow, Trentham Road, Penkhull, was still in use in the early 1880's; (fn. 105) a well in Honeywall was closed as unhealthy."
Cheap 'glebe' land for nogger...
Taken from? 'A History of the County of Stafford: Volume 8. Originally published by Victoria County History, London, 1963'
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Post by Clayton Wood on Mar 17, 2017 9:45:57 GMT
As everyone in those old pics is standing at ground level, could it be the case that soil from around the edges of the pitch were dug out and used to bank up the Stoke end? All the paddocks and the ends were eventually below pitch level hence the white walls. Just a thought
We're pretty certain the Stoke End embankment was built/completed in the summer of 1934 but the paddocks weren't actually dug below pitch level until 1936.
Part of the 'reward' for the ground improvements looks to have been the hosting of the Home International England v Ireland match on 18th November, 1936 in front of a crowd of 47,886. Stoke's Johnson provided crosses for 2 of the goals [just as good then as now!!] and Freddie Steele also played in a 2-3-5 formation (Sparky are you watching?!) |
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Post by yes on Mar 17, 2017 13:28:39 GMT
You lot should set up a Twitter or Facebook account where you can put all your findings.
Very interesting stuff, but don't know enough myself to join in.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 17, 2017 20:48:35 GMT
Made me smile:
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Post by werrington on Mar 18, 2017 6:42:08 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 6:22:21 GMT
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 23, 2017 12:00:52 GMT
Nice find Burnside, any idea on the year?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 13:24:40 GMT
Late 60s early 70s?? Game against Everton Gordon West broke the crossbar
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Post by Kewstokie on Mar 23, 2017 13:56:52 GMT
Not sure these attachments will add much other than they :- a) Confirm what we all knew that the Vic land was owned by the Church but also that b) The compiler noted in 1910/11 that the land 'might be made into a valuable building estate' These are the Inland Revenue entries for the ground occupied by Stoke football club when the land was valued in circa 1911. Their provenance is that the government of the day introduced in effect a land value tax that worked much like capital gains tax with a levy being taken on disposal of land that increased in value. Value was set at 1909 levels, the football ground at Boothen Road being assessed at £3300. These assessments were made on all properties by the Inland Revenue - often useful for land or family history (ind of course your house was built in 1911) The land was owned by the vicar (as mentioned in the Sentinel article) leased to the football club for 21 years from June 1903. The tax was abolished by the tories as soon as they came back to power after WW1, it wasn't popular with landowners who owned most the country, most houses etc in those days were rented. I'm sure Lambeth Palace library will have copies of the lease if the local archive in Stoke doesn't. I've got a picture of the 1909 team at the ground somewhere and the map that accompanied this valuation exercise somewhere if its of interest. Attachments:
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Post by Kewstokie on Mar 23, 2017 13:59:43 GMT
and here's the second page showing the value and comment about future use of the ground Attachments:
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 17:47:45 GMT
Late 60s early 70s?? Game against Everton Gordon West broke the crossbar Found the date ..21st Dec 1968 |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 23, 2017 21:21:04 GMT
Don't you remember?!?!?!?!?!!
Joking apart, I guess there's a pretty good chance that there might be a handful of people still alive who do remember it like that.
Somebody who was seven at the time would be 89 now, so you never know.
Does anybody on here remember the gas tower?
Here you go Paul. Two great older fans. |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 24, 2017 12:05:04 GMT
Joking apart, I guess there's a pretty good chance that there might be a handful of people still alive who do remember it like that.
Somebody who was seven at the time would be 89 now, so you never know.
Does anybody on here remember the gas tower?
Here you go Paul. Two great older fans. 89 as well! First game was for the record crowd against Arsenal in 1937.
Funny they talk about Pejic throwing Tueart's shirt into the paddock ... that was my first game, aged 9, Feb '75, we won 4-0.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 29, 2017 18:56:19 GMT
We spent a day in the library today and came up with some good stuff, finally we have a picture of the Boothen End with the crowd in it but with no roof, this is the first one that we've seen.
It's taken from the Stoke End looking south, we are wearing white (I have no idea why) and it's picture of Bob McGrory playing against Nottingham Forest on the 15th April 1922. It was a 1-1 draw. There was 20,000 there.
Will post more later ...
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Post by Kenilworth_Stokies on Mar 29, 2017 19:21:07 GMT
We spent a day in the library today and came up with some good stuff, finally we have a picture of the Boothen End with the crowd in it but with no roof, this is the first one that we've seen.
It's taken from the Stoke End looking south, we are wearing white (I have no idea why) and it's picture of Bob McGrory playing against Nottingham Forest on the 15th April 1922. It was a 1-1 draw. There was 20,000 there.
Will post more later ...
A cracking picture Paul. The Boothen looks kinda low though compared to later shots. It would make sense if it was originally a small embankment and when they roofed it they built the concourse and the back part of the terrace over it. The 1922 photo would therefore show only the front paddock of the later Boothen End, the back part would be built later if you see what I mean. Compare the size of the goal posts to the following shot for scale:  |
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 29, 2017 19:34:03 GMT
We spent a day in the library today and came up with some good stuff, finally we have a picture of the Boothen End with the crowd in it but with no roof, this is the first one that we've seen.
It's taken from the Stoke End looking south, we are wearing white (I have no idea why) and it's picture of Bob McGrory playing against Nottingham Forest on the 15th April 1922. It was a 1-1 draw. There was 20,000 there.
Will post more later ...
A cracking picture Paul. The Boothen looks kinda low though compared to later shots. It would make sense if it was originally a small embankment and when they roofed it they built the concourse and the back part of the terrace over it. The 1922 photo would therefore show only the front paddock of the later Boothen End, the back part would be built later if you see what I mean. Compare the size of the goal posts to the following shot for scale:
Exactly mate.
This picture was taken in 1926.
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Post by Kenilworth_Stokies on Mar 29, 2017 19:37:45 GMT
I have a feeling there was a stage in between the 1922 shot and when it was roofed, which the 1926 shot shows. I'm sure I remember reading somewhere that the Vic lost its oval shape at the Boothen End in then 1920s and then was roofed later in the 1930s. So it was banked up in two phases in other words.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 29, 2017 19:51:33 GMT
I have a feeling there was a stage in between the 1922 shot and when it was roofed, which the 1926 shot shows. I'm sure I remember reading somewhere that the Vic lost its oval shape at the Boothen End in then 1920s and then was roofed later in the 1930s. So it was banked up in two phases in other words.
You can clearly still see the oval track in the 1926 pic mate. It remained that way until the Boothen bank was extended, terraced and roofed in the summer of 1929.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 29, 2017 20:12:39 GMT
A whole bunch of Athletics meets between 1920 and 1923. Apologies for the poor quality but the papers themselves are very rough. They're worth enlarging for more detail.
International meeting July 1923
Birchfield Harriers 1920
North Staffordshire Elementary Schools Sports Day July 1923
Hanley Secondary School Sports Day July 1923  There was even Cycling! August 1923  And I love this one from St. Peter's Sports Day July 1921, the caption says ... "(2) the orchestra for dancing, which was interesting, in that the drum is an Egyptian one, captured from the natives in the first rebellion in Uganda and presented to Mr. Riley (the president of the Sports) some 30 years ago, while the pianist is only eleven years of age." |
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Post by Kenilworth_Stokies on Mar 29, 2017 20:50:24 GMT
Fantastic. Love it. I'd never have thought there'd be any surviving shots of the Vic as an athletics venue.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 30, 2017 9:59:46 GMT
This might be my favourite picture so far.
It's a wonderful panoramic view of the ground. The match is against the Vale on the 24th September 1921 and at the time, it was the biggest crowd (27,015) we had ever had since our inception, it finished as a 0-0 draw.
The picture is certainly worth enlarging. If you click on it twice it goes quite large.
You can see that there are people actually seated behind the goal but they are inside the running track.
I'm sure that if you told a lot of Stokies, that at one time the Stoke End had a roof on it and there was seating at the front of the Boothen End, they would laugh you out of the room! 
bayernoatcake eddyclamp Davef Kenilworth_Stokies lagwafis lordb wizzardofdribble
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Post by Paul Spencer on Mar 30, 2017 10:27:37 GMT
And this is the Stoke team that played in the match above.
Will post some more pics later when I've got a min. |
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