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Post by davejohnno1 on Jan 4, 2017 12:01:35 GMT
Can I ask you what you think my agenda might be? I've defended Hughes to the hilt. I've defended our recent performances to the hilt. I defended the end of last season to the hilt and I defended the start of this season to the hilt. I thought last night was abysmal. I was disappointed when I saw the team sheet and that team went on to produce exactly the type of performance I expected of them. It was utter dross. Devoid of personality, quality, pace and anything remotely resembling decent football. Only when we reverted to a back 4 and bought Afellay on did we resemble anything like a football team. Field that team and play exactly the same way at Sunderland and we will get beat. Field that team and play exactly the same way v Manure and they will absolutely destroy us. I can accept bad performances no problem at all. It happens. I can even accept last night if it is a one off. If that were to become the norm, I'd want Hughes out. I honestly couldn't watch that type of shit everyweek. A very well heard phrase we've heard numerous times before, but honestly, I'd rather stop going that watch that every week. It was shocking and at times the only entertainment came courtesy of laughing at just how bad it was. Afellay's superb cross that Crouch mis-headed sideways, right into Walters path who then missed the easiest of easy chances. Two comedy gold moments in the space of 2 seconds. The Walters "let it run across my body" moment in the first half where he did exactly that and then chased the ball into touch because having not performed what he wanted to do properly he was then too bloody slow to even chase the ball down and stop it going out for a thrown in. It was laughable. It really was. The end of your reply is the most important part for me. No one "wants" the performances to continue. Last night was a 1 off. Weren't people just saying how better we were at Chelsea only days before? The result was key last night, it was almost our first 6 pointer. It defines where the 2nd half of the season will be for the team (fighting for 7th rather than relegation). Hughes even said so in his post match. That's where I differ. Our team is more than good enough to avoid relegation danger easily. We are in no trouble at all of going down and wouldn't have been had we lost last night. My overriding conclusion, is "let's hope it is a one off". If that is to be the norm for the rest of the season, I would say its highly unlikely that Hughes will be here by next season.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 12:02:24 GMT
I for one didn't mind the performance.
You still have to play the opposition. Yes, Watford were beyond shite and had virtually no attacking impetus behind them. But they made it pretty difficult for us to play, which contributed to that woeful first half.
Only major criticism I have is Jon playing. He was next to useless.
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Post by WhyDelilah on Jan 4, 2017 12:03:00 GMT
8 of the worst pages in the history of the Oatcake on 1 of the worst threads in the history of the Oatcake. That pretty much sums up last night on here. The bottom line I got from it all was that the majority of people here would be unhappy if we won the Premier League with performances like last night and people would be happy if we got relegated playing sublime footy. Some of you really need to calm down and just reflect on where we have come from in the last 20 years. We have had an upward curve of progression for the best part of 2 decades. It just can't continue that way. Sometimes we will step back. Hughes has made mistakes and it is correct to be concerned when things aren't going well. He has bought players that he just isn't happy with. IMO, I personally don't think it is a matter of not trusting them, but their attitudes stink. Bojan doesn't play and starts stamping his feet. Shaqiri throws a hissy fit every single time he is subbed off. Imbula, when on the pitch, literally looks like he has just woken up, showing complete disinterest. Now, Hughes has to take responsibility for their performance, but their attitude is 100% down to them. If he has dropped because of this, then fair fucking play. I have wanted so much for Bojan and Shaqiri to succeed but it is down to them to make it happen. Last night, I saw people moaning about substitutes being negative. What I saw was a manager who had recently seen his team lose a 2-0 lead late on and made substitutes capable closing players down and keeping hold of the ball. We didn't need to dick Watford 5-0, it was enough to get 3 points. Some games you have to win ugly. I seriously think some people preferred losing 4-2 to Chelsea than grabbing a massively important 3 points at this stage of the season. For me, last night meant we are more likely to be battling for 7th than batting to stay up so I can take a poor performance and 3 points for that to happen, EVERY SINGLE TIME. Look how far we've come. We could do a Charlton. We're 12th FFS Steak and chips Etc etc
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jan 4, 2017 12:03:45 GMT
I think you’ve just admitted your own agenda their dave, haven’t you? You’ve defended Hughes ‘to the hilt’ after performances far more abject than that in the past but because we got an easy win with players you’ve been slating for years in a way that had a whiff of direct football about it, it’s now apparently the time for toys out of the pram. No toys out of the pram from me. It was shit. I've never done anything other than call it as I see it. I've no problem with direct football either. None at all. We weren't direct last night though. We were garbage and it was a "nothing" performance. A great game to watch on teletext but not so great to sit and watch in a freezing stadium. As I say, field that team and play that way v Sunderland and we will lose. I was delighted with the 3 points but absolutely not with the performance. We'd pick up more points playing the way we did v Chelsea and Liverpool than we would playing the way we did last night. They were games that Crouch, Walters and Adam played various parts in and were horrific for an hour against Liverpool. Don't really get your point at all.
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Post by wuzza on Jan 4, 2017 12:03:57 GMT
8 of the worst pages in the history of the Oatcake on 1 of the worst threads in the history of the Oatcake. That pretty much sums up last night on here. The bottom line I got from it all was that the majority of people here would be unhappy if we won the Premier League with performances like last night and people would be happy if we got relegated playing sublime footy. Some of you really need to calm down and just reflect on where we have come from in the last 20 years. We have had an upward curve of progression for the best part of 2 decades. It just can't continue that way. Sometimes we will step back. Hughes has made mistakes and it is correct to be concerned when things aren't going well. He has bought players that he just isn't happy with. IMO, I personally don't think it is a matter of not trusting them, but their attitudes stink. Bojan doesn't play and starts stamping his feet. Shaqiri throws a hissy fit every single time he is subbed off. Imbula, when on the pitch, literally looks like he has just woken up, showing complete disinterest. Now, Hughes has to take responsibility for their performance, but their attitude is 100% down to them. If he has dropped because of this, then fair fucking play. I have wanted so much for Bojan and Shaqiri to succeed but it is down to them to make it happen. Last night, I saw people moaning about substitutes being negative. What I saw was a manager who had recently seen his team lose a 2-0 lead late on and made substitutes capable closing players down and keeping hold of the ball. We didn't need to dick Watford 5-0, it was enough to get 3 points. Some games you have to win ugly. I seriously think some people preferred losing 4-2 to Chelsea than grabbing a massively important 3 points at this stage of the season. For me, last night meant we are more likely to be battling for 7th than batting to stay up so I can take a poor performance and 3 points for that to happen, EVERY SINGLE TIME. Absolutely 100% correct. Two things were essential last night - 3 points and a clean sheet. We needed to do certain things and we adapted successfully. The fact that certain players they don't appreciate were the ones that achieved those goals is sending some supporters into a bit of a tailspin. I don't know what the panic is because if the players we have on the books prove themselves worthy of a starting position they will be back in like a shot, they are Hughes' own signings after all. Fact of the matter is they have let him down and he has responded in the correct manner.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 4, 2017 12:04:32 GMT
I think you’ve just admitted your own agenda their dave, haven’t you? You’ve defended Hughes ‘to the hilt’ after performances far more abject than that in the past but because we got an easy win with players you’ve been slating for years in a way that had a whiff of direct football about it, it’s now apparently the time for toys out of the pram. No toys out of the pram from me. It was shit. I've never done anything other than call it as I see it. I've no problem with direct football either. None at all. We weren't direct last night though. We were garbage and it was a "nothing" performance. A great game to watch on teletext but not so great to sit and watch in a freezing stadium. As I say, field that team and play that way v Sunderland and we will lose. I was delighted with the 3 points but absolutely not with the performance. We'd pick up more points playing the way we did v Chelsea and Liverpool than we would playing the way we did last night. I agree with Dave, if we play like that against the majority of the other teams in the league then we will inevitably lose. We didn't win by intentionally 'playing ugly', we won a contest between too poor sides and fortunately the opposition were poorer than us. You can say that we made Watford look poor but I don't buy that, I thought both teams were dreadful, first half especially.
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Post by MilanStokie on Jan 4, 2017 12:05:00 GMT
The end of your reply is the most important part for me. No one "wants" the performances to continue. Last night was a 1 off. Weren't people just saying how better we were at Chelsea only days before? The result was key last night, it was almost our first 6 pointer. It defines where the 2nd half of the season will be for the team (fighting for 7th rather than relegation). Hughes even said so in his post match. That's where I differ. Our team is more than good enough to avoid relegation danger easily. We are in no trouble at all of going down and wouldn't have been had we lost last night. My overriding conclusion, is "let's hope it is a one off". If that is to be the norm for the rest of the season, I would say its highly unlikely that Hughes will be here by next season. Agreed. But, although we may have always been good enough to avoid relegation, losing last night would have left us a long way from competing with Everton. That alone would have made for a stagnant 2nd half of the season with only really the cup to play for.
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Post by WhyDelilah on Jan 4, 2017 12:06:01 GMT
We played a shit team. All our results come against shit team. It's what make Hughes thinks he's getting it right. The second we play a half decent team we get beat. Look at who we have beat over the past 12 months. Beating shit teams is papering over the cracks. A goal off a shin will delude Hughes for a few more weeks now. Utter bullshit. WBA are currently 8th & winning plenty of plaudits by only beating "shit" teams. Its the bread & butter of any league campaign. If we could consistently beat the decent teams in this divison we would be in the top 4 you fucking tool. We've only beaten Hull, Swansea, Sunderland, Burnley and Watford this season. Forget the top 4. Forget the top 6. We can't beat absolutely any team of note.
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Post by alster on Jan 4, 2017 12:06:38 GMT
We're about to increase capacity to about 30,000 I'm sure the owners don't want to see half the seats empty because the product is crap. I have favorite pubs and restaurants too but if the consistently serve me crap I wouldn't bear with them for 18 months. So that's 15,000 of us you can play that I'm a better fan than you bollox to your hearts content, I'm a Stoke City fan I'll be one until the day I die. That doesn't mean they can keep feeding me tripe and expect me to swallow I'm a Human with a mind of my own not a dog. Ok so basically you are agreeing with what I am saying then. There needs to be a balance. But there are times where the points have to become more important. For example, come May on gameweek 38, we need 3 points to stay in the league, are you going to be jumping up and down if we don't do it in a pretty way? We went through all the same crap with Pulis. He had the majority of our support convinced you can't play good football and prosper in the Premier league. A tiny minority of us at first refused to accept that was true, we grew and grew in number until our tiny minority became a significant rump that could not be ignored. We got Hughes and he proved our point for us but he's slowly but surely becoming more and more Pulislike, performances are unrecognisable. We're a growing band again, the people in charge need to listen and either get Hughes to refind himself or ship him out because we are people who will sacrifice our wish to actively support unless the product represents our values.
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Post by MilanStokie on Jan 4, 2017 12:07:13 GMT
8 of the worst pages in the history of the Oatcake on 1 of the worst threads in the history of the Oatcake. That pretty much sums up last night on here. The bottom line I got from it all was that the majority of people here would be unhappy if we won the Premier League with performances like last night and people would be happy if we got relegated playing sublime footy. Some of you really need to calm down and just reflect on where we have come from in the last 20 years. We have had an upward curve of progression for the best part of 2 decades. It just can't continue that way. Sometimes we will step back. Hughes has made mistakes and it is correct to be concerned when things aren't going well. He has bought players that he just isn't happy with. IMO, I personally don't think it is a matter of not trusting them, but their attitudes stink. Bojan doesn't play and starts stamping his feet. Shaqiri throws a hissy fit every single time he is subbed off. Imbula, when on the pitch, literally looks like he has just woken up, showing complete disinterest. Now, Hughes has to take responsibility for their performance, but their attitude is 100% down to them. If he has dropped because of this, then fair fucking play. I have wanted so much for Bojan and Shaqiri to succeed but it is down to them to make it happen. Last night, I saw people moaning about substitutes being negative. What I saw was a manager who had recently seen his team lose a 2-0 lead late on and made substitutes capable closing players down and keeping hold of the ball. We didn't need to dick Watford 5-0, it was enough to get 3 points. Some games you have to win ugly. I seriously think some people preferred losing 4-2 to Chelsea than grabbing a massively important 3 points at this stage of the season. For me, last night meant we are more likely to be battling for 7th than batting to stay up so I can take a poor performance and 3 points for that to happen, EVERY SINGLE TIME. Look how far we've come. We could do a Charlton. We're 12th FFS Steak and chips Etc etc Another one who focused on that little part and ignored the rest. We won. We got 3 points. In any sport in the world, the prize is what matters most, anything else comes after. What I dont get from you though WD is only a few months ago, you would have made a thread exactly like this with the intention of mocking the whiners. Methinks you are being hypocritical.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 12:09:06 GMT
Utter bullshit. WBA are currently 8th & winning plenty of plaudits by only beating "shit" teams. Its the bread & butter of any league campaign. If we could consistently beat the decent teams in this divison we would be in the top 4 you fucking tool. We've only beaten Hull, Swansea, Sunderland, Burnley and Watford this season. Forget the top 4. Forget the top 6. We can't beat absolutely any team of note. And people moaned last season when we didn't beat the bottom teams.
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Post by spitthedog on Jan 4, 2017 12:09:38 GMT
I find the suggestion that somehow we played ugly intentionally because that was the best way of securing a win a bit contrived.
and I don't accept the assertion that sometimes you have to play crap to get the job done.
I don't think we set out to play crap as part of some kind of masterplan, or that there was no alternative to playing crap.
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Post by WhyDelilah on Jan 4, 2017 12:11:03 GMT
Look how far we've come. We could do a Charlton. We're 12th FFS Steak and chips Etc etc Another one who focused on that little part and ignored the rest. We won. We got 3 points. In any sport in the world, the prize is what matters most, anything else comes after. What I dont get from you though WD is only a few months ago, you would have made a thread exactly like this with the intention of mocking the whiners. Methinks you are being hypocritical. I just can't defend it anymore mate. Look at our performances and results over the past 12 months. Look how many times we've been spanked by 4. Look how many times we've got our noses in front and then sat back. Look at how many times that negative approach has cost us. Look at the mess of the current squad.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jan 4, 2017 12:12:09 GMT
Utter bullshit. WBA are currently 8th & winning plenty of plaudits by only beating "shit" teams. Its the bread & butter of any league campaign. If we could consistently beat the decent teams in this divison we would be in the top 4 you fucking tool. We can't beat absolutely any team of note. Correct. No argument and Hughes deserves stick for it but we can't beat any team of note with any combination of player or system. The meltdown due to last nights selection and approach is fairly transparent stuff.
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Post by biglad180 on Jan 4, 2017 12:13:52 GMT
I thought like a lot of you we were terrible if Hughes cannot get players of the quality of Imbula Bojan and Shaqiri in that team maybe its time for a change of manager especially at home
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Post by pez75 on Jan 4, 2017 12:17:00 GMT
I know people have different opinions and expectations, but I do not quite understand all this piss & wind? I expected a few barbed jibes about the quality of the match and the performances of a couple of the players, but this? After a comfortable win (which it was)?
I was hardly filled with joy when I heard the line-up, but I fully expected Hughes to go with more 'rugged' team against Watford. Despite performances we were coming off the back of two heavy defeats where Hughes had highlighted our poor defending and unnecessary costly errors. It was obvious that he was going to try to rectify that for Watford and although I don't wholeheartedly agree with it - he put out a team to combat their physicality and formation.
I think people are being a bit harsh on Watford too - they are clearly a poor side but they were never going to let us tippy-tap around them after the Spurs game and although crap with the ball they were tough & competitive throughout.
Yes Hughes could have been a bit braver with the subs, but the memory of Leicester was too recent and he was happy to see the game out at 2-0. Tonight was all about the result after 3 defeats & 2 draws.
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Post by MilanStokie on Jan 4, 2017 12:18:01 GMT
Ok so basically you are agreeing with what I am saying then. There needs to be a balance. But there are times where the points have to become more important. For example, come May on gameweek 38, we need 3 points to stay in the league, are you going to be jumping up and down if we don't do it in a pretty way? We went through all the same crap with Pulis. He had the majority of our support convinced you can't play good football and prosper in the Premier league. A tiny minority of us at first refused to accept that was true, we grew and grew in number until our tiny minority became a significant rump that could not be ignored. We got Hughes and he proved our point for us but he's slowly but surely becoming more and more Pulislike, performances are unrecognisable. We're a growing band again, the people in charge need to listen and either get Hughes to refind himself or ship him out because we are people who will sacrifice our wish to actively support unless the product represents our values. But to answer my question?
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Post by fca47 on Jan 4, 2017 12:21:33 GMT
It has come to something where MH does not trust his most skillfull players, Shaquiri kept out of the side by Diouf, who I like, but is never a wide player, Bojan can't get on the pitch in front of a player out for a year with a major injury. You have to say these two need to improve their work rate or ship out.
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Post by Pugsley on Jan 4, 2017 12:23:42 GMT
I think you’ve just admitted your own agenda their dave, haven’t you? You’ve defended Hughes ‘to the hilt’ after performances far more abject than that in the past but because we got an easy win with players you’ve been slating for years in a way that had a whiff of direct football about it, it’s now apparently the time for toys out of the pram. No toys out of the pram from me. It was shit. I've never done anything other than call it as I see it. I've no problem with direct football either. None at all. We weren't direct last night though. We were garbage and it was a "nothing" performance. A great game to watch on teletext but not so great to sit and watch in a freezing stadium. As I say, field that team and play that way v Sunderland and we will lose. I was delighted with the 3 points but absolutely not with the performance. We'd pick up more points playing the way we did v Chelsea and Liverpool than we would playing the way we did last night.Exactly what the Manager alluded to after the game. He knows we were shite, but we needed the result so he just about gets away with it.
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Post by MilanStokie on Jan 4, 2017 12:25:16 GMT
Another one who focused on that little part and ignored the rest. We won. We got 3 points. In any sport in the world, the prize is what matters most, anything else comes after. What I dont get from you though WD is only a few months ago, you would have made a thread exactly like this with the intention of mocking the whiners. Methinks you are being hypocritical. I just can't defend it anymore mate. Look at our performances and results over the past 12 months. Look how many times we've been spanked by 4. Look how many times we've got our noses in front and then sat back. Look at how many times that negative approach has cost us. Look at the mess of the current squad. Sure, without a doubt there are many things that aren't right at the moment. Hughes obsession with Berahino meant we ended up with a striker we probably didn't want and now he feels Crouch is currently the best option. Most of 2016 however has to be down to the pure volume of injuries to key players. Do we just ignore that? We have been spanked a few times and to be fair I was furious myself after the Palace game, but that was followed by a drastic improvement which shows we have a manager that can recognise the problems and find ways of resolving them. Last night was poor, absolutely no doubt. But can you say that kind of showing has been regular? Hughes needs to identify his best line-up and stick with it. People don't want the 3-4-3 type formation anymore, but at least he is trying to stick at it. If performances like that continue, more likely we will lose more than we win. I get that. Let's say we finish 15th and a pretty awful 2nd half of the season, I am in total agreement that it would be time for Hughes to move on. As it stands we are comfortably midtable right now with every chance of kicking on towards competing for a European spot. I asked a few times already, will you be unhappy with 7th place if we didn't particularly play spectacular footy along the way?
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Post by WhyDelilah on Jan 4, 2017 12:27:22 GMT
We can't beat absolutely any team of note. Correct. No argument and Hughes deserves stick for it but we can't beat any team of note with any combination of player or system. The meltdown due to last nights selection and approach is fairly transparent stuff. My "meltdown" isn't just about last night's match though mate. I've been fed up for a while. Listen to the sound generate when Shawcross scored last night. It was almost as if the away team had bagged. That should have alarm bells ringing in itself. Hardly anybody seemed to be enjoying it. If you think I've got an agenda against somebody or something then fair enough. For me, I'm just fed up with the manager and the direction (or lack thereof) he's taking us. He's got a big 5 months ahead. I hope he turns it around and this thread is bumped to ram it down my throat. I just don't see it happening. If things don't dramatically improve then I wouldn't be bothered to see the back of him in the Summer. The squad just seems completely disjointed, the team shape looks a mess and it just feels like we're regressing. And it isn't pretty to watch.
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Post by WhyDelilah on Jan 4, 2017 12:28:41 GMT
I just can't defend it anymore mate. Look at our performances and results over the past 12 months. Look how many times we've been spanked by 4. Look how many times we've got our noses in front and then sat back. Look at how many times that negative approach has cost us. Look at the mess of the current squad. Sure, without a doubt there are many things that aren't right at the moment. Hughes obsession with Berahino meant we ended up with a striker we probably didn't want and now he feels Crouch is currently the best option. Most of 2016 however has to be down to the pure volume of injuries to key players. Do we just ignore that? We have been spanked a few times and to be fair I was furious myself after the Palace game, but that was followed by a drastic improvement which shows we have a manager that can recognise the problems and find ways of resolving them. Last night was poor, absolutely no doubt. But can you say that kind of showing has been regular? Hughes needs to identify his best line-up and stick with it. People don't want the 3-4-3 type formation anymore, but at least he is trying to stick at it. If performances like that continue, more likely we will lose more than we win. I get that. Let's say we finish 15th and a pretty awful 2nd half of the season, I am in total agreement that it would be time for Hughes to move on. As it stands we are comfortably midtable right now with every chance of kicking on towards competing for a European spot. I asked a few times already, will you be unhappy with 7th place if we didn't particularly play spectacular footy along the way? I would but we're not going to finish 7th by just beating the half a dozen teams at the bottom.
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Post by alster on Jan 4, 2017 12:33:44 GMT
We went through all the same crap with Pulis. He had the majority of our support convinced you can't play good football and prosper in the Premier league. A tiny minority of us at first refused to accept that was true, we grew and grew in number until our tiny minority became a significant rump that could not be ignored. We got Hughes and he proved our point for us but he's slowly but surely becoming more and more Pulislike, performances are unrecognisable. We're a growing band again, the people in charge need to listen and either get Hughes to refind himself or ship him out because we are people who will sacrifice our wish to actively support unless the product represents our values. But to answer my question? Sorry I didn't realise there was a serious question to answer. Hughes has proved that its not necessary to play dull, dour football to prosper in this league I don't see where the final game of the season comes into it. Play good attacking football, build your squad. If you have different systems in mind as he obviously did have pre season, make sure you've got the correct tools to employ them ie suitable wing backs, enough centre backs to cover 3 slots. If you have exciting potential don't be afraid to use it(Ramadan). Hughes was bought in to replace a manager who a significant number of fans felt was just too conservative/pragmatic and yet he's walking down the exact same path. Its a mistake I can guarantee it whether we're 11th FFS or not.
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Post by MilanStokie on Jan 4, 2017 12:34:10 GMT
Sure, without a doubt there are many things that aren't right at the moment. Hughes obsession with Berahino meant we ended up with a striker we probably didn't want and now he feels Crouch is currently the best option. Most of 2016 however has to be down to the pure volume of injuries to key players. Do we just ignore that? We have been spanked a few times and to be fair I was furious myself after the Palace game, but that was followed by a drastic improvement which shows we have a manager that can recognise the problems and find ways of resolving them. Last night was poor, absolutely no doubt. But can you say that kind of showing has been regular? Hughes needs to identify his best line-up and stick with it. People don't want the 3-4-3 type formation anymore, but at least he is trying to stick at it. If performances like that continue, more likely we will lose more than we win. I get that. Let's say we finish 15th and a pretty awful 2nd half of the season, I am in total agreement that it would be time for Hughes to move on. As it stands we are comfortably midtable right now with every chance of kicking on towards competing for a European spot. I asked a few times already, will you be unhappy with 7th place if we didn't particularly play spectacular footy along the way? I would but we're not going to finish 7th by just beating the half a dozen teams at the bottom. But this season, more than any other I remember in the last 10 years, has become the top 6 against the rest. Hardly any shocks have happened. There is already a 10 point gap that has emerged between 5th and 6th and that is despite Man Utd not having a great first dozen games. A lot of teams are being hit for 4, not just Stoke. That alone proves to me that 7th is attainable. I can't see any smaller team turning over Chelsea, Liverpool, Spurs or Man City this season. Even Bournemouth couldn't hold out 3-0 vs Arsenal in the end.
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Post by MilanStokie on Jan 4, 2017 12:36:16 GMT
But to answer my question? Sorry I didn't realise there was a serious question to answer. Hughes has proved that its not necessary to play dull, dour football to prosper in this league I don't see where the final game of the season comes into it. Play good attacking football, build your squad. If you have different systems in mind as he obviously did have pre season, make sure you've got the correct tools to employ them ie suitable wing backs, enough centre backs to cover 3 slots. If you have exciting potential don't be afraid to use it(Ramadan). Hughes was bought in to replace a manager who a significant number of fans felt was just too conservative/pragmatic and yet he's walking down the exact same path. Its a mistake I can guarantee it whether we're 11th FFS or not. Clearly you are having a difficult time in reading the replies other than those that agree with you then. It was as serious a question as I am likely to offer you. There are times and places where the points are more important than any performance. Yesterday was one of them, just like the last game of the season would be if the result determined something particularly important. So please, your answer to the question?
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Post by alster on Jan 4, 2017 12:52:02 GMT
Sorry I didn't realise there was a serious question to answer. Hughes has proved that its not necessary to play dull, dour football to prosper in this league I don't see where the final game of the season comes into it. Play good attacking football, build your squad. If you have different systems in mind as he obviously did have pre season, make sure you've got the correct tools to employ them ie suitable wing backs, enough centre backs to cover 3 slots. If you have exciting potential don't be afraid to use it(Ramadan). Hughes was bought in to replace a manager who a significant number of fans felt was just too conservative/pragmatic and yet he's walking down the exact same path. Its a mistake I can guarantee it whether we're 11th FFS or not. Clearly you are having a difficult time in reading the replies other than those that agree with you then. It was as serious a question as I am likely to offer you. There are times and places where the points are more important than any performance. Yesterday was one of them, just like the last game of the season would be if the result determined something particularly important. So please, your answer to the question? Yes there comes a time where results become more important than performances. We hit that spot after 6 or 7 games this season. He made pragmatic/conservative changes that at the time I said I understood given the circumstances but that I did not see it as any long term solution. Yesterday was not in any way shape or form such a circumstance yet we lined up even more conservative than when he bought Cameron in to hold Whelan's hand. You need to face facts he's becoming a very conservative/pragmatic manager. You don't mind it but some others hate it with a passion and we're people who will walk if it continues, to try to force change. I'm not going to protest at games, people like me deciding to withhold renewing our ST's has been effective before and the way he's shaping up may be necessary again.
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Post by chiswickpotter on Jan 4, 2017 13:08:37 GMT
The end of your reply is the most important part for me. No one "wants" the performances to continue. Last night was a 1 off. Weren't people just saying how better we were at Chelsea only days before? The result was key last night, it was almost our first 6 pointer. It defines where the 2nd half of the season will be for the team (fighting for 7th rather than relegation). Hughes even said so in his post match. That's where I differ. Our team is more than good enough to avoid relegation danger easily. We are in no trouble at all of going down and wouldn't have been had we lost last night. My overriding conclusion, is "let's hope it is a one off". If that is to be the norm for the rest of the season, I would say its highly unlikely that Hughes will be here by next season. Don't you think Hughes has a selection philosophy and rewards people for good performances. I know you don't like Crouch but he was good on Saturday and Walters and Charlie did well at Watford away. I assume he wanted to rest Affelay and as Shaq was poor at Chelsea,he had his team. They did enough two days after a tough game so I think he was vindicated. I assume if Afellay was 100%, Walters wouldn't have played. The 3-4-1-2 has pros and cons but for the second goal last night we had 4 men in the box, something we rarely managed with our variants of 4-3-3 so I can see why he is persevering with it. With Afellay back and hopefully a striker signed we can see if this system has potential. It clearly needs work as Arsenal and Liverpool away showed but it seems to suit some of our players more than 4-3-3, we don't have marauding full backs, a striker who plays well alone up top and lack wide strikers, Arnie excepted. It may be a system borne out of failure in the transfer market but it is worth more time
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 13:25:37 GMT
Clearly you are having a difficult time in reading the replies other than those that agree with you then. It was as serious a question as I am likely to offer you. There are times and places where the points are more important than any performance. Yesterday was one of them, just like the last game of the season would be if the result determined something particularly important. So please, your answer to the question? Yes there comes a time where results become more important than performances. We hit that spot after 6 or 7 games this season. He made pragmatic/conservative changes that at the time I said I understood given the circumstances but that I did not see it as any long term solution. Yesterday was not in any way shape or form such a circumstance yet we lined up even more conservative than when he bought Cameron in to hold Whelan's hand. You need to face facts he's becoming a very conservative/pragmatic manager. You don't mind it but some others hate it with a passion and we're people who will walk if it continues, to try to force change. I'm not going to protest at games, people like me deciding to withhold renewing our ST's has been effective before and the way he's shaping up may be necessary again. I totally agree and let's not forget season ticket renewals will be along shortly. With a few notable exceptions we've been shit at home since we trounced Liverpool. Make no mistake Hughesie's football in the last 18 months is every bit as bad as the stuff Pulis served up.
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Post by MilanStokie on Jan 4, 2017 13:38:20 GMT
Clearly you are having a difficult time in reading the replies other than those that agree with you then. It was as serious a question as I am likely to offer you. There are times and places where the points are more important than any performance. Yesterday was one of them, just like the last game of the season would be if the result determined something particularly important. So please, your answer to the question? Yes there comes a time where results become more important than performances. We hit that spot after 6 or 7 games this season. He made pragmatic/conservative changes that at the time I said I understood given the circumstances but that I did not see it as any long term solution. Yesterday was not in any way shape or form such a circumstance yet we lined up even more conservative than when he bought Cameron in to hold Whelan's hand. You need to face facts he's becoming a very conservative/pragmatic manager. You don't mind it but some others hate it with a passion and we're people who will walk if it continues, to try to force change. I'm not going to protest at games, people like me deciding to withhold renewing our ST's has been effective before and the way he's shaping up may be necessary again. So after caving vs Leicester with a 2 goal lead, shipping 4 goals consecutively vs Liverpool and Chelsea, potentially running into a tough set of fixtures and falling 9 points behind the only worthwhile position in this league, you feel a more conservative performance which delivers 3 points and a cleansheet isn't particularly important? For me, it was a very appropriate time to ensure 3 points as it was pretty much our first 6 pointer of the season.
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Post by GoBoks on Jan 4, 2017 13:45:47 GMT
If you can't even remember/ get the stadium name right, what else can't you remember/get right? What credibility do you have? I highlighted which sides in red above. So the team plays crap, has crap players, a crap manager, a crap stadium name, ...... Is there anything about Stoke you actually like? Barring almost billion dollar investments, we are probably going down long term no matter who the manager is. Look at villa, leeds, newcastle, etc etc. Unless you are one of the big six, you are probably going to be relegated within the next 20 years, ... but not this year!! You talk of the horrendous opposition, but it seems to never enter your head that maybe, just maybe, the horrendous opposition had something to do with the team line-up? Maybe when Bojan Shaq, Imbula are fresh on Saturday, we will be thankful? Or is that just a cup game and not worth winning? Like I said, we have a lot to be happy about, and I choose to be happy! (1) There's no need to be petty about the Stadium name. I know what it's called but I prefer to call it the Brit, because the Bet365, in my opinion, is quite embarrassing - that does no harm to anybody. (2) You've not named any sides that were worse, again you're being petty. (3) I'm usually very positive about Stoke, I think Hughes is an excellent, underrated manager and I think he's a hero for transforming us in the way that he has but he is making decisions now that I find pretty worrying. (4) Again, smart-arse reply that doesn't address what I've said. (5) Already addressed your final point but will do so again. Hughes is playing the exact team or similar to tonight in every game, and is making the same kind of late, negative substitutions. If this game was actually a one off I'd be all for him playing poor players because we can 'afford to' against poor opposition. But that isn't the case, the tactics are no different from when we get thrashed by decent teams. You really think he was going to pick Bojan Shaq and Imbula but thought 'I better save them for Wolves'? Whatever. 1.But you can be petty about player's/Stoke's/Hughe's performance? Point is, you can't even get the stadium name right. What's to say you can't get your analysis right? 2. Almost every time we win, people on here say it's the worst team ever. I don't need to name them, just look at our fixture list. 3. You're not a manager, nor do you know what's going on behind the scenes. I trust Hughe's opinion ahead of yours. 4. We are Stoke, not Man Utd. We will go down at some point. Enjoy while you can. 5. See 3.
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