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Post by jezzascfc on Jan 4, 2017 13:55:29 GMT
Irrespective of the result, I make the same point now as I did when I first saw the team sheet before the game - that team selection was a sorry indictment of Hughes' failed attacking transfer policy over the past few years.
It was a game we really needed to win and he chose to bench, and not even bring on, the 18m Imbula, the 12m Shaqiri and the much heralded Bojan, whilst the 6m Joselu is on loan in Spain (unlikely to return) and the other striker he chased for 18 months was consigned to right wing back. This even ignores the costly mistake that is the ACON bound Bony. It was back to 2012 Pulisball with Crouch and Walters reunited up front - did anyone see that one coming this time last year after the Man Utd and Everton games over Christmas 2015?
Something has gone wrong in the past year or so - we ship goals, lack fight, the flair players waltz around with seemingly little care for the outcome (save for an honourable exception in Arnie). Hell, even our captain and club legend is now cupping his bloody ears after scoring - how dare we criticism the shit football he has been part of producing for large parts of 2016!!! Sit down and shut up, eh, Ryan?
The manager's tactics and selections are fast becoming unpredictable and illogical - there is no sign of a plan, of progressing towards something better. He seems to have lost faith in his expensive acquisitions and fallen back on survival football. If we wanted to just stay up at all costs, then Pulis or Big Sam should be our manager. Hughes was meant to usher in something different, something better, to aim higher. 9th for 3 years is a tremendous feat for our club, but something is not quite right, and hasn't been for a while, down at the Bet 365 Stadium.
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Post by southwalesstokie on Jan 4, 2017 13:57:09 GMT
I wonder if any other teams' 'fans' moan after a comfortable (if a little uninspiring) home win and clean sheet in the Premier League?
I for one am glad that we played it a bit safe and got a vital win. Had we not won that, we'd have been back in a bit of shit.
We've been absolutely dreadful defensively in the last few weeks and at the start of the season so for me, it's nice to see us with a bit of backbone and resilience. People calling for the introduction of flair players when 2-0 up with half an hour to go are deluded. Would you like to see us capitulate again like we did vs Leicester?
Hughes made sure of the win. Moan that it was a bit boring and uninspiring, yes. BUT just be thankful that we have another three points on the board.
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Post by lstokie on Jan 4, 2017 13:58:12 GMT
It was a game we really needed to win and he chose to bench, and not even bring on, the 18m Imbula, the 12m Shaqiri and the much heralded Bojan, whilst the 6m Joselu is on loan in Spain (unlikely to return) and the other striker he chased for 18 months was consigned to right wing back. This even ignores the costly mistake that is the ACON bound Bony. But we did win This is one of the weirdest threads I've seen on here.
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Post by geoff321 on Jan 4, 2017 14:00:27 GMT
Always better to win ugly than to lose with style.
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Post by jezzascfc on Jan 4, 2017 14:01:12 GMT
It was a game we really needed to win and he chose to bench, and not even bring on, the 18m Imbula, the 12m Shaqiri and the much heralded Bojan, whilst the 6m Joselu is on loan in Spain (unlikely to return) and the other striker he chased for 18 months was consigned to right wing back. This even ignores the costly mistake that is the ACON bound Bony. But we did win This is one of the weirdest threads I've seen on here. We won because, although we were poor (especially for the first 40 mins), we were not quite as poor as a shockingly bad Watford, who were missing at least half of their first choice XI. We will not win too many more games this season playing that badly again, or fielding that team for that matter.
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Post by lstokie on Jan 4, 2017 14:05:30 GMT
But we did win This is one of the weirdest threads I've seen on here. We won because, although we were poor (especially for the first 40 mins), we were not quite as poor as a shockingly bad Watford, who were missing at least half of their first choice XI. We will not win too many more games this season playing that badly again, or fielding that team for that matter. So maybe it was good management 'to bench, and not even bring on, the 18m Imbula, the 12m Shaqiri and the much heralded Bojan, whilst the 6m Joselu is on loan in Spain (unlikely to return) and the other striker he chased for 18 months was consigned to right wing back. ' Because he knew how crap they were?
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Post by southwalesstokie on Jan 4, 2017 14:09:15 GMT
Irrespective of the result, I make the same point now as I did when I first saw the team sheet before the game - that team selection was a sorry indictment of Hughes' failed attacking transfer policy over the past few years. It was a game we really needed to win and he chose to bench, and not even bring on, the 18m Imbula, the 12m Shaqiri and the much heralded Bojan, whilst the 6m Joselu is on loan in Spain (unlikely to return) and the other striker he chased for 18 months was consigned to right wing back. This even ignores the costly mistake that is the ACON bound Bony. It was back to 2012 Pulisball with Crouch and Walters reunited up front - did anyone see that one coming this time last year after the Man Utd and Everton games over Christmas 2015? Something has gone wrong in the past year or so - we ship goals, lack fight, the flair players waltz around with seemingly little care for the outcome (save for an honourable exception in Arnie). Hell, even our captain and club legend is now cupping his bloody ears after scoring - how dare we criticism the shit football he has been part of producing for large parts of 2016!!! Sit down and shut up, eh, Ryan? The manager's tactics and selections are fast becoming unpredictable and illogical - there is no sign of a plan, of progressing towards something better. He seems to have lost faith in his expensive acquisitions and fallen back on survival football. If we wanted to just stay up at all costs, then Pulis or Big Sam should be our manager. Hughes was meant to usher in something different, something better, to aim higher. 9th for 3 years is a tremendous feat for our club, but something is not quite right, and hasn't been for a while, down at the Bet 365 Stadium. A fair assessment. We haven't had a great season by any stretch. Hughes clearly hasn't figured out his best team and we've struggled for consistency as a result. He's been let down by players he's put tremendous faith in. He's not the only one that assumed that they'd have pushed us forward. I remember when we signed Shaqiri and Imbula and the whole footballing world looked on in admiration. Bony was similar when we signed him. The media predicted that he'd score 15-20 goals this season! What we're seeing now, with the reintroduction of Walters, Crouch and Adam is Hughes giving these much-vaunted signings a good kick up the arse. The message is clear. If you don't perform, your place in the team isn't guaranteed. Not great for the fans but he's doing it to fire the players that he's not playing, I'm sure of it. I also think that though it's shit at the moment, it's a strategy that will work in the long term. Shaqiri, Bojan and Imbula aren't players that like to warm the bench and if they're worth their salt, they'll buck their ideas up. I wish our fans would stop looking at the short term and focus more on the longer term.
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Post by jezzascfc on Jan 4, 2017 14:10:01 GMT
We won because, although we were poor (especially for the first 40 mins), we were not quite as poor as a shockingly bad Watford, who were missing at least half of their first choice XI. We will not win too many more games this season playing that badly again, or fielding that team for that matter. So maybe it was good management 'to bench, and not even bring on, the 18m Imbula, the 12m Shaqiri and the much heralded Bojan, whilst the 6m Joselu is on loan in Spain (unlikely to return) and the other striker he chased for 18 months was consigned to right wing back. ' Because he knew how crap they were? He knew how crap they were??!?!?!? Maybe he could have tried to work that one out before he spent a fortune on them in transfer fees and wages? Just a thought!
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Post by reddipotter on Jan 4, 2017 14:17:34 GMT
Irrespective of the result, I make the same point now as I did when I first saw the team sheet before the game - that team selection was a sorry indictment of Hughes' failed attacking transfer policy over the past few years. It was a game we really needed to win and he chose to bench, and not even bring on, the 18m Imbula, the 12m Shaqiri and the much heralded Bojan, whilst the 6m Joselu is on loan in Spain (unlikely to return) and the other striker he chased for 18 months was consigned to right wing back. This even ignores the costly mistake that is the ACON bound Bony. It was back to 2012 Pulisball with Crouch and Walters reunited up front - did anyone see that one coming this time last year after the Man Utd and Everton games over Christmas 2015? Something has gone wrong in the past year or so - we ship goals, lack fight, the flair players waltz around with seemingly little care for the outcome (save for an honourable exception in Arnie). Hell, even our captain and club legend is now cupping his bloody ears after scoring - how dare we criticism the shit football he has been part of producing for large parts of 2016!!! Sit down and shut up, eh, Ryan? The manager's tactics and selections are fast becoming unpredictable and illogical - there is no sign of a plan, of progressing towards something better. He seems to have lost faith in his expensive acquisitions and fallen back on survival football. If we wanted to just stay up at all costs, then Pulis or Big Sam should be our manager. Hughes was meant to usher in something different, something better, to aim higher. 9th for 3 years is a tremendous feat for our club, but something is not quite right, and hasn't been for a while, down at the Bet 365 Stadium. A fair assessment. We haven't had a great season by any stretch. Hughes clearly hasn't figured out his best team and we've struggled for consistency as a result. He's been let down by players he's put tremendous faith in. He's not the only one that assumed that they'd have pushed us forward. I remember when we signed Shaqiri and Imbula and the whole footballing world looked on in admiration. Bony was similar when we signed him. The media predicted that he'd score 15-20 goals this season! What we're seeing now, with the reintroduction of Walters, Crouch and Adam is Hughes giving these much-vaunted signings a good kick up the arse. The message is clear. If you don't perform, your place in the team isn't guaranteed. Not great for the fans but he's doing it to fire the players that he's not playing, I'm sure of it. I also think that though it's shit at the moment, it's a strategy that will work in the long term. Shaqiri, Bojan and Imbula aren't players that like to warm the bench and if they're worth their salt, they'll buck their ideas up. I wish our fans would stop looking at the short term and focus more on the longer term. A manager not having worked out his best team is a fair excuse in his first year, not in his fourth season and after SEVEN transfer windows. Hughes' strength is to have an immediate impact at a club. He has no idea how to build from there. It is him who cannot 'focus on the long term'.
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Post by cousindupree on Jan 4, 2017 14:19:14 GMT
wow I have only just read this thread and its a huge embarrassment to hear some of the comments from fellow Stokies. Most games that are played are often impacted by whats happened in the previous 3/4 games. Throwing away a 2 goal lead, tough away games at teams who are nailed on for top 4 finishes and who are on fire, performed ok for a while at Liverpool but errors gifted 3 goals, at Chelsea some pundits suggested it was one of Chelsea's toughest games of the season. All these factors will affect mental and physical tiredness of players, and will also influence the managers selection for the next game. I wasn't surprised we didn't play well, a fact that Hughes has recognised but we ground out an important 3 points mainly on the back of Hughes selecting players he can trust to put in a shift.
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Post by southwalesstokie on Jan 4, 2017 14:23:11 GMT
A fair assessment. We haven't had a great season by any stretch. Hughes clearly hasn't figured out his best team and we've struggled for consistency as a result. He's been let down by players he's put tremendous faith in. He's not the only one that assumed that they'd have pushed us forward. I remember when we signed Shaqiri and Imbula and the whole footballing world looked on in admiration. Bony was similar when we signed him. The media predicted that he'd score 15-20 goals this season! What we're seeing now, with the reintroduction of Walters, Crouch and Adam is Hughes giving these much-vaunted signings a good kick up the arse. The message is clear. If you don't perform, your place in the team isn't guaranteed. Not great for the fans but he's doing it to fire the players that he's not playing, I'm sure of it. I also think that though it's shit at the moment, it's a strategy that will work in the long term. Shaqiri, Bojan and Imbula aren't players that like to warm the bench and if they're worth their salt, they'll buck their ideas up. I wish our fans would stop looking at the short term and focus more on the longer term. A manager not having worked out his best team is a fair excuse in his first year, not in his fourth season and after SEVEN transfer windows. Hughes' strength is to have an immediate impact at a club. He has no idea how to build from there. It is him who cannot 'focus on the long term'. Your desire to bash Hughes seems to have left you with the wrong end of the stick re: my comments! I'm not excusing him. Merely pointing out the situation...as I see it. And yes, it's always been the same. Stoke fans are hugely short-sighted... or at least they are on here anyway.
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Post by spitthedog on Jan 4, 2017 14:23:25 GMT
Always better to win ugly than to lose with style. You think we set out to play ugly? I think we should try to understand what playing 'ugly' means anyway, seems to be varied interpretations adding to the confusion? Over Physical?....didn't see much of that! Defensive approach? ......we had 4 attacking forwards on the pitch and one midfielder who cant defend! Unable to retain possession?....saw a lot of that! Unable to cross a ball?......saw a lot of that! Depending on the goalkeeper to make world class saves? ...saw one example of that! anything else?
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Post by southwalesstokie on Jan 4, 2017 14:26:01 GMT
wow I have only just read this thread and its a huge embarrassment to hear some of the comments from fellow Stokies. Most games that are played are often impacted by whats happened in the previous 3/4 games. Throwing away a 2 goal lead, tough away games at teams who are nailed on for top 4 finishes and who are on fire, performed ok for a while at Liverpool but errors gifted 3 goals, at Chelsea some pundits suggested it was one of Chelsea's toughest games of the season. All these factors will affect mental and physical tiredness of players, and will also influence the managers selection for the next game. I wasn't surprised we didn't play well, a fact that Hughes has recognised but we ground out an important 3 points mainly on the back of Hughes selecting players he can trust to put in a shift. This. It was our third game in 6 days, we were great in the first half an hour against a very good Liverpool team and our performance at Chelsea was the best anyone's played against them this season. Still not enough for our 'fans' though. We have become the Premier League snobs that we ridiculed when we were first promoted!
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 4, 2017 14:30:07 GMT
So maybe it was good management 'to bench, and not even bring on, the 18m Imbula, the 12m Shaqiri and the much heralded Bojan, whilst the 6m Joselu is on loan in Spain (unlikely to return) and the other striker he chased for 18 months was consigned to right wing back. ' Because he knew how crap they were? He knew how crap they were??!?!?!? Maybe he could have tried to work that one out before he spent a fortune on them in transfer fees and wages? Just a thought! I think he's referring to Watford being crap Jez but I still don't think his point stacks up. I think there's not much reason to believe he wouldn't have played the same side if we'd been playing a top six side last night, indeed it was only two players away from the starting XI that played Liverpool last week and Arnie would certainly have started in that match had he been available. We didn't go out there with a plan to 'win ugly' against Watford because three points were essential and we needed to keep a clean sheet at all costs. We played badly, fortunately enough, a dreadful Watford team decimated by injuries were even worse. We're going have to playing a lot better than we did last night if we want to continue to win matches.
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Post by alster on Jan 4, 2017 14:35:08 GMT
Yes there comes a time where results become more important than performances. We hit that spot after 6 or 7 games this season. He made pragmatic/conservative changes that at the time I said I understood given the circumstances but that I did not see it as any long term solution. Yesterday was not in any way shape or form such a circumstance yet we lined up even more conservative than when he bought Cameron in to hold Whelan's hand. You need to face facts he's becoming a very conservative/pragmatic manager. You don't mind it but some others hate it with a passion and we're people who will walk if it continues, to try to force change. I'm not going to protest at games, people like me deciding to withhold renewing our ST's has been effective before and the way he's shaping up may be necessary again. So after caving vs Leicester with a 2 goal lead, shipping 4 goals consecutively vs Liverpool and Chelsea, potentially running into a tough set of fixtures and falling 9 points behind the only worthwhile position in this league, you feel a more conservative performance which delivers 3 points and a cleansheet isn't particularly important? For me, it was a very appropriate time to ensure 3 points as it was pretty much our first 6 pointer of the season. It was just another game that we should get something out of and a chance to play well and build some form and momentum, we still had a buffer between us and the bottom 3. As it was we got 3 pts but nothing else, we got nothing else because we didn't set up with anything else in mind. So what do you do reintroduce some flair against Man Utd and drop them again if they don't produce because thats what Hughes is doing just lately setting his better players up to fail to justify running back to his comfort blanket.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 14:38:15 GMT
Something seems amiss in the squad.
Damned if I know. All the wise sages on here are just guessing.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 4, 2017 14:40:47 GMT
wow I have only just read this thread and its a huge embarrassment to hear some of the comments from fellow Stokies. Most games that are played are often impacted by whats happened in the previous 3/4 games. Throwing away a 2 goal lead, tough away games at teams who are nailed on for top 4 finishes and who are on fire, performed ok for a while at Liverpool but errors gifted 3 goals, at Chelsea some pundits suggested it was one of Chelsea's toughest games of the season. All these factors will affect mental and physical tiredness of players, and will also influence the managers selection for the next game. I wasn't surprised we didn't play well, a fact that Hughes has recognised but we ground out an important 3 points mainly on the back of Hughes selecting players he can trust to put in a shift.
I hadn't seen that, that's refreshing to hear ... what did he say exactly (or do you have a link)?
Cheers
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 14:42:43 GMT
Irrespective of the result, I make the same point now as I did when I first saw the team sheet before the game - that team selection was a sorry indictment of Hughes' failed attacking transfer policy over the past few years. It was a game we really needed to win and he chose to bench, and not even bring on, the 18m Imbula, the 12m Shaqiri and the much heralded Bojan, whilst the 6m Joselu is on loan in Spain (unlikely to return) and the other striker he chased for 18 months was consigned to right wing back. This even ignores the costly mistake that is the ACON bound Bony. It was back to 2012 Pulisball with Crouch and Walters reunited up front - did anyone see that one coming this time last year after the Man Utd and Everton games over Christmas 2015? Something has gone wrong in the past year or so - we ship goals, lack fight, the flair players waltz around with seemingly little care for the outcome (save for an honourable exception in Arnie). Hell, even our captain and club legend is now cupping his bloody ears after scoring - how dare we criticism the shit football he has been part of producing for large parts of 2016!!! Sit down and shut up, eh, Ryan? The manager's tactics and selections are fast becoming unpredictable and illogical - there is no sign of a plan, of progressing towards something better. He seems to have lost faith in his expensive acquisitions and fallen back on survival football. If we wanted to just stay up at all costs, then Pulis or Big Sam should be our manager. Hughes was meant to usher in something different, something better, to aim higher. 9th for 3 years is a tremendous feat for our club, but something is not quite right, and hasn't been for a while, down at the Bet 365 Stadium. These are exactly my thoughts. On a sliding scale since Hughes' second season, the football's got progressively worse. When he first joined, I agreed with almost everything he did. Every decision seemed to have a purpose and it was like the whole club had a vision and was working to a plan. For quite some time now though it's looked more and more to me like a disorganised mess.
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Post by geoff321 on Jan 4, 2017 15:01:14 GMT
I think spit Hughes would first select the team he believed could grind out a result. His instructions clearly wouldn't be to play ugly, but might be to cut out the fancy stuff, reduce risk taking, eliminate some of the errors of recent games and make it difficult for Watford to create chances. Both teams have had few wins recently and Watford themselves probably set up to make the game tight, such games often result in what happened yesterday.
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Post by alster on Jan 4, 2017 15:17:13 GMT
I think spit Hughes would first select the team he believed could grind out a result. His instructions clearly wouldn't be to play ugly, but might be to cut out the fancy stuff, reduce risk taking, eliminate some of the errors of recent games and make it difficult for Watford to create chances. Both teams have had few wins recently and Watford themselves probably set up to make the game tight, such games often result in what happened yesterday. You're talking like its one isolated game and it just isn't we haven't played well at home for a year and his selection and tactics have become too negative. His obsession with shutting games down and inviting pressure is just setting that into concrete. He's not even giving them an opportunity of repaying the fans loyalty with a performance to send them home happy. Last night, Leicester, Burnley, WBA all games that were there for the taking an opportunity to send the fans home purring. Fair enough they've yielded two wins and two draws but in each game its been as if he was determined to rebuff any notion of putting on a performance for the fans giving them a much needed feel good factor.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 4, 2017 15:41:56 GMT
The fact we played so poor against Watfords reserves speaks volumes.
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Post by MilanStokie on Jan 4, 2017 16:18:28 GMT
The fact we played so poor against Watfords reserves speaks volumes. Really? Did you just hear about their injury numbers and just assume we played their reserves? Perhaps you could do your homework and count how many of the injured are actually first teamers? Then maybe you would have discovered that only 2 of them actually start games for them. Apart from that, well done Columbo.
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Post by WhyDelilah on Jan 4, 2017 17:59:52 GMT
Irrespective of the result, I make the same point now as I did when I first saw the team sheet before the game - that team selection was a sorry indictment of Hughes' failed attacking transfer policy over the past few years. It was a game we really needed to win and he chose to bench, and not even bring on, the 18m Imbula, the 12m Shaqiri and the much heralded Bojan, whilst the 6m Joselu is on loan in Spain (unlikely to return) and the other striker he chased for 18 months was consigned to right wing back. This even ignores the costly mistake that is the ACON bound Bony. It was back to 2012 Pulisball with Crouch and Walters reunited up front - did anyone see that one coming this time last year after the Man Utd and Everton games over Christmas 2015? Something has gone wrong in the past year or so - we ship goals, lack fight, the flair players waltz around with seemingly little care for the outcome (save for an honourable exception in Arnie). Hell, even our captain and club legend is now cupping his bloody ears after scoring - how dare we criticism the shit football he has been part of producing for large parts of 2016!!! Sit down and shut up, eh, Ryan? The manager's tactics and selections are fast becoming unpredictable and illogical - there is no sign of a plan, of progressing towards something better. He seems to have lost faith in his expensive acquisitions and fallen back on survival football. If we wanted to just stay up at all costs, then Pulis or Big Sam should be our manager. Hughes was meant to usher in something different, something better, to aim higher. 9th for 3 years is a tremendous feat for our club, but something is not quite right, and hasn't been for a while, down at the Bet 365 Stadium. Well said, sir.
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Post by GoBoks on Jan 4, 2017 18:55:25 GMT
Am I right in thinking we have only beat Watford, Sunderland, Hull, Burnley and Swansea in the league this season? Have we beat anybody half decent?? All of the above are "half decent" They are among the top 20 clubs in England!
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Post by GoBoks on Jan 4, 2017 22:38:19 GMT
Irrespective of the result, I make the same point now as I did when I first saw the team sheet before the game - that team selection was a sorry indictment of Hughes' failed attacking transfer policy over the past few years. It was a game we really needed to win and he chose to bench, and not even bring on, the 18m Imbula, the 12m Shaqiri and the much heralded Bojan, whilst the 6m Joselu is on loan in Spain (unlikely to return) and the other striker he chased for 18 months was consigned to right wing back. This even ignores the costly mistake that is the ACON bound Bony. It was back to 2012 Pulisball with Crouch and Walters reunited up front - did anyone see that one coming this time last year after the Man Utd and Everton games over Christmas 2015? Something has gone wrong in the past year or so - we ship goals, lack fight, the flair players waltz around with seemingly little care for the outcome (save for an honourable exception in Arnie). Hell, even our captain and club legend is now cupping his bloody ears after scoring - how dare we criticism the shit football he has been part of producing for large parts of 2016!!! Sit down and shut up, eh, Ryan? The manager's tactics and selections are fast becoming unpredictable and illogical - there is no sign of a plan, of progressing towards something better. He seems to have lost faith in his expensive acquisitions and fallen back on survival football. If we wanted to just stay up at all costs, then Pulis or Big Sam should be our manager. Hughes was meant to usher in something different, something better, to aim higher. 9th for 3 years is a tremendous feat for our club, but something is not quite right, and hasn't been for a while, down at the Bet 365 Stadium. Hey Jez, I think it's a bit harsh to call it "Hughes' failed transfer policy over the past few years" when for the past few years we have out achieved our own expectations in terms of league position. In addition, almost every one of the signings was hailed as a masterstroke by the press and us when they occurred. The fact that none of us have seen this coming, even just a year ago, is further evidence that this was not part of the plan and is maybe symptomatic of a much more insidious problem. How can Shaqiri be a star for his country and a dud for us? I agree, something has gone wrong, and I am sure that steps are being taken to address the problem. (maybe the team selection is part of the "steps"?) I also agree, and maybe this is also part of the problem, that it's time for Ryan to put up or shut-up. In my opinion, we need a new captain and either Arnie, Allen (both maybe too temperamental) or Indi (too new/loanee) seem to be the best choices (and maybe that's another part of the problem, a lack of natural leaders?). And yes, 3 consecutive ninth spots (and current 11th spot) are good achievements, but something is wrong and I am not sure that it is Hughes. No one can take a pile of relegation survivalists and turn them overnight into consistently playing above their pay grade (Liverpool, ManC, ManU, final finish, etc) and then become abysmal no hopers the next day. I also agree that some of the symptoms of the malaise include "schoolboy defending", "lack of passion", "inability to score", "tippy, tappy, own half passes", "ponderous slow attack build up simply to turn around and pass back before hoofing it upfield", "messing with the formation", "not playing obvious team selections". I'm not sure that all (or even any) of these are a direct result of ineptitude by Hughes. If you are in a high turnover role, probably have a huge bonus riding on your performance, and your ability to get another job depends on your reputation, would you make some of the selection/tactic choices Hughes has? I also agree that if we are unable to identify the malaise and turn it around, Hughes should go, but I think that will be a detrimental long term impact to the club that we will regret for a long time. Rather than simply call for Hughes to go, in my opinion we need to excise the root cause of the trouble.
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Post by alster on Jan 4, 2017 23:34:02 GMT
Irrespective of the result, I make the same point now as I did when I first saw the team sheet before the game - that team selection was a sorry indictment of Hughes' failed attacking transfer policy over the past few years. It was a game we really needed to win and he chose to bench, and not even bring on, the 18m Imbula, the 12m Shaqiri and the much heralded Bojan, whilst the 6m Joselu is on loan in Spain (unlikely to return) and the other striker he chased for 18 months was consigned to right wing back. This even ignores the costly mistake that is the ACON bound Bony. It was back to 2012 Pulisball with Crouch and Walters reunited up front - did anyone see that one coming this time last year after the Man Utd and Everton games over Christmas 2015? Something has gone wrong in the past year or so - we ship goals, lack fight, the flair players waltz around with seemingly little care for the outcome (save for an honourable exception in Arnie). Hell, even our captain and club legend is now cupping his bloody ears after scoring - how dare we criticism the shit football he has been part of producing for large parts of 2016!!! Sit down and shut up, eh, Ryan? The manager's tactics and selections are fast becoming unpredictable and illogical - there is no sign of a plan, of progressing towards something better. He seems to have lost faith in his expensive acquisitions and fallen back on survival football. If we wanted to just stay up at all costs, then Pulis or Big Sam should be our manager. Hughes was meant to usher in something different, something better, to aim higher. 9th for 3 years is a tremendous feat for our club, but something is not quite right, and hasn't been for a while, down at the Bet 365 Stadium. Hey Jez, I think it's a bit harsh to call it "Hughes' failed transfer policy over the past few years" when for the past few years we have out achieved our own expectations in terms of league position. In addition, almost every one of the signings was hailed as a masterstroke by the press and us when they occurred. The fact that none of us have seen this coming, even just a year ago, is further evidence that this was not part of the plan and is maybe symptomatic of a much more insidious problem. How can Shaqiri be a star for his country and a dud for us? I agree, something has gone wrong, and I am sure that steps are being taken to address the problem. (maybe the team selection is part of the "steps"?) I also agree, and maybe this is also part of the problem, that it's time for Ryan to put up or shut-up. In my opinion, we need a new captain and either Arnie, Allen (both maybe too temperamental) or Indi (too new/loanee) seem to be the best choices (and maybe that's another part of the problem, a lack of natural leaders?). And yes, 3 consecutive ninth spots (and current 11th spot) are good achievements, but something is wrong and I am not sure that it is Hughes. No one can take a pile of relegation survivalists and turn them overnight into consistently playing above their pay grade (Liverpool, ManC, ManU, final finish, etc) and then become abysmal no hopers the next day. I also agree that some of the symptoms of the malaise include "schoolboy defending", "lack of passion", "inability to score", "tippy, tappy, own half passes", "ponderous slow attack build up simply to turn around and pass back before hoofing it upfield", "messing with the formation", "not playing obvious team selections". I'm not sure that all (or even any) of these are a direct result of ineptitude by Hughes. If you are in a high turnover role, probably have a huge bonus riding on your performance, and your ability to get another job depends on your reputation, would you make some of the selection/tactic choices Hughes has? I also agree that if we are unable to identify the malaise and turn it around, Hughes should go, but I think that will be a detrimental long term impact to the club that we will regret for a long time. Rather than simply call for Hughes to go, in my opinion we need to excise the root cause of the trouble. Wow you will blame anybody and everybody bar him won't you. Isn't it all a bit far fetched and mysterious rather than a much simpler explanation that he's lost his way and the courage of his convictions to do what he was bought here to do and initially did so well. I'd say it was far more likely that a series of heavy defeats have led him to a crisis of confidence that has affected his approach to games. He's become overly cautious and almost as wary of flair as his predecessor who we criticised for signing the odd one he didn't know what to do with. His caution hasn't stopped us from losing but it has stopped us from winning with any joy because of the laboured play and the fact he shits himself every time we get a lead and tries to shut the game down short changing fans who deserve a performance to send them home buzzing occasionally instead of saying well we won but *******. He's not become an abysmal no hoper and neither is he the second coming of SAF. He's done well but he hasn't worked any miracles, I really don't think he's that special that the club would regret dispensing with his services long into the future. Thats just the sort of froth that people used to post about Pulis and we moved on from him fairly seamlessly without looking back with endless remorse. Well most of us have anyway.
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Post by edaboagenawo on Jan 5, 2017 0:14:26 GMT
Great a man who's team wasted so much team at our place it was an embarrassment. Tonight they lose a 3-0 lead!? You're having a laugh. When was the last time Stoke had a 3-0 lead against Arsenal ? Bournemouth also beat Liverpool in a 4-3 thriller, Stoke were dreadful against them. Hughes doesn't get teams promoted, he's more likely to take them down.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 0:16:06 GMT
Great a man who's team wasted so much team at our place it was an embarrassment. Tonight they lose a 3-0 lead!? You're having a laugh. When was the last time Stoke had a 3-0 lead against Arsenal ? Bournemouth also beat Liverpool in a 4-3 thriller, Stoke were dreadful against them. Hughes doesn't get teams promoted, he's more likely to take them down. The season before last
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Post by edaboagenawo on Jan 5, 2017 0:35:08 GMT
When was the last time Stoke had a 3-0 lead against Arsenal ? Bournemouth also beat Liverpool in a 4-3 thriller, Stoke were dreadful against them. Hughes doesn't get teams promoted, he's more likely to take them down. The season before last That was 1914, they made a mistake....
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Post by peterthornesboots on Jan 5, 2017 0:58:57 GMT
Great a man who's team wasted so much team at our place it was an embarrassment. Tonight they lose a 3-0 lead!? You're having a laugh. When was the last time Stoke had a 3-0 lead against Arsenal ? Bournemouth also beat Liverpool in a 4-3 thriller, Stoke were dreadful against them. Hughes doesn't get teams promoted, he's more likely to take them down. It wasn't that long ago that we tonked Liverpool 6-1 and beat both Manchester clubs ... ... I'm not sure that you've made your point very well here ...
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