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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 1:34:14 GMT
I was as disappointed as the next man with Wednesday's overall performance. As already been rightly pointed out, the win was more important than anything else on the night.
Stoke did put two half decent performances in prior to the Watford game against two very good teams who'll be fighting for top spot come end of season. Predictably we lost them both, conceding 8 goals along the way.
The rot had to be stopped at all costs on Wednesday night. As ugly as it may have looked at times the main objective was achieved.
We won and we didn't concede.
How the rest of the season pans out from here is anybody's guess.
As an avid Stoke supporter I truly hope that things do turn around for the better for the remainder of the season.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 11:59:08 GMT
And me mate, but I can't see it happening soon. Hope (as usual) that I'm totally wrong though!
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Post by Ex-term-oat-cake on Jan 5, 2017 12:28:36 GMT
To be fair, we were missing 5 first team starters...
Bojan, Shaqiri, Bony, Joselu, Imbula.
Errrrmmmm.....??!?? Eh?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 12:43:16 GMT
I was as disappointed as the next man with Wednesday's overall performance. As already been rightly pointed out, the win was more important than anything else on the night. Stoke did put two half decent performances in prior to the Watford game against two very good teams who'll be fighting for top spot come end of season. Predictably we lost them both, conceding 8 goals along the way. The rot had to be stopped at all costs on Wednesday night. As ugly as it may have looked at times the main objective was achieved. We won and we didn't concede. How the rest of the season pans out from here is anybody's guess. As an avid Stoke supporter I truly hope that things do turn around for the better for the remainder of the season. Do you seriously believe that Liverpool away was a "half decent performance"?
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Post by blurtonboy on Jan 5, 2017 14:31:02 GMT
I was as disappointed as the next man with Wednesday's overall performance. As already been rightly pointed out, the win was more important than anything else on the night. Stoke did put two half decent performances in prior to the Watford game against two very good teams who'll be fighting for top spot come end of season. Predictably we lost them both, conceding 8 goals along the way. The rot had to be stopped at all costs on Wednesday night. As ugly as it may have looked at times the main objective was achieved. We won and we didn't concede. How the rest of the season pans out from here is anybody's guess. As an avid Stoke supporter I truly hope that things do turn around for the better for the remainder of the season.
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Post by GoBoks on Jan 5, 2017 14:35:48 GMT
Hey Jez, I think it's a bit harsh to call it "Hughes' failed transfer policy over the past few years" when for the past few years we have out achieved our own expectations in terms of league position. In addition, almost every one of the signings was hailed as a masterstroke by the press and us when they occurred. The fact that none of us have seen this coming, even just a year ago, is further evidence that this was not part of the plan and is maybe symptomatic of a much more insidious problem. How can Shaqiri be a star for his country and a dud for us? I agree, something has gone wrong, and I am sure that steps are being taken to address the problem. (maybe the team selection is part of the "steps"?) I also agree, and maybe this is also part of the problem, that it's time for Ryan to put up or shut-up. In my opinion, we need a new captain and either Arnie, Allen (both maybe too temperamental) or Indi (too new/loanee) seem to be the best choices (and maybe that's another part of the problem, a lack of natural leaders?). And yes, 3 consecutive ninth spots (and current 11th spot) are good achievements, but something is wrong and I am not sure that it is Hughes. No one can take a pile of relegation survivalists and turn them overnight into consistently playing above their pay grade (Liverpool, ManC, ManU, final finish, etc) and then become abysmal no hopers the next day. I also agree that some of the symptoms of the malaise include "schoolboy defending", "lack of passion", "inability to score", "tippy, tappy, own half passes", "ponderous slow attack build up simply to turn around and pass back before hoofing it upfield", "messing with the formation", "not playing obvious team selections". I'm not sure that all (or even any) of these are a direct result of ineptitude by Hughes. If you are in a high turnover role, probably have a huge bonus riding on your performance, and your ability to get another job depends on your reputation, would you make some of the selection/tactic choices Hughes has? I also agree that if we are unable to identify the malaise and turn it around, Hughes should go, but I think that will be a detrimental long term impact to the club that we will regret for a long time. Rather than simply call for Hughes to go, in my opinion we need to excise the root cause of the trouble. Wow you will blame anybody and everybody bar him won't you. Isn't it all a bit far fetched and mysterious rather than a much simpler explanation that he's lost his way and the courage of his convictions to do what he was bought here to do and initially did so well. I'd say it was far more likely that a series of heavy defeats have led him to a crisis of confidence that has affected his approach to games. He's become overly cautious and almost as wary of flair as his predecessor who we criticised for signing the odd one he didn't know what to do with. His caution hasn't stopped us from losing but it has stopped us from winning with any joy because of the laboured play and the fact he shits himself every time we get a lead and tries to shut the game down short changing fans who deserve a performance to send them home buzzing occasionally instead of saying well we won but *******. He's not become an abysmal no hoper and neither is he the second coming of SAF. He's done well but he hasn't worked any miracles, I really don't think he's that special that the club would regret dispensing with his services long into the future. Thats just the sort of froth that people used to post about Pulis and we moved on from him fairly seamlessly without looking back with endless remorse. Well most of us have anyway. And you are hell bent on blaming nothing but him. Who has guided Stoke to 3 consecutive top 10 finishes and currently 11th? Is it possible that this same man has gone beserk and is now to blame for everything that's going wrong? Possible ... Yes, probable ...NO. But hey, if you want to be simple and take the first simpler explanation, be my guest. I prefer to think things through.
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Post by GoBoks on Jan 5, 2017 14:45:51 GMT
Great a man who's team wasted so much team at our place it was an embarrassment. Tonight they lose a 3-0 lead!? You're having a laugh. When was the last time Stoke had a 3-0 lead against Arsenal ? Bournemouth also beat Liverpool in a 4-3 thriller, Stoke were dreadful against them. Hughes doesn't get teams promoted, he's more likely to take them down. Edab, it is fine to have an alternative point of view, but please try and substantiate your argument with something based in reality. Are you aware that in the 8 seasons where Hughes has been in charge for the entire season, he has guided his team to a top ten finish every single time? Are you aware that Stoke have NEVER had 3 consecutive top ten finishes EVER until Hughes took over? Are you aware that Hughes has never had a team under his control relegated? If you want to be taken seriously, at least back up your statements with facts.
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Post by alster on Jan 5, 2017 14:48:19 GMT
Wow you will blame anybody and everybody bar him won't you. Isn't it all a bit far fetched and mysterious rather than a much simpler explanation that he's lost his way and the courage of his convictions to do what he was bought here to do and initially did so well. I'd say it was far more likely that a series of heavy defeats have led him to a crisis of confidence that has affected his approach to games. He's become overly cautious and almost as wary of flair as his predecessor who we criticised for signing the odd one he didn't know what to do with. His caution hasn't stopped us from losing but it has stopped us from winning with any joy because of the laboured play and the fact he shits himself every time we get a lead and tries to shut the game down short changing fans who deserve a performance to send them home buzzing occasionally instead of saying well we won but *******. He's not become an abysmal no hoper and neither is he the second coming of SAF. He's done well but he hasn't worked any miracles, I really don't think he's that special that the club would regret dispensing with his services long into the future. Thats just the sort of froth that people used to post about Pulis and we moved on from him fairly seamlessly without looking back with endless remorse. Well most of us have anyway. And you are hell bent on blaming nothing but him. Who has guided Stoke to 3 consecutive top 10 finishes and currently 11th? Is it possible that this same man has gone beserk and is now to blame for everything that's going wrong? Possible ... Yes, probable ...NO. But hey, if you want to be simple and take the first simpler explanation, be my guest. I prefer to think things through. I've thought them through including providing possible reasons. Who else could possibly be to blame? this demon you want to exorcise. You've gone from burying your head in the sand to admitting we have fundamental problems but you refuse to shine your torch in the most likely area to find them.
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Post by jezzascfc on Jan 5, 2017 14:56:35 GMT
And you are hell bent on blaming nothing but him. Who has guided Stoke to 3 consecutive top 10 finishes and currently 11th? Is it possible that this same man has gone beserk and is now to blame for everything that's going wrong? Possible ... Yes, probable ...NO. But hey, if you want to be simple and take the first simpler explanation, be my guest. I prefer to think things through. I've thought them through including providing possible reasons. Who else could possibly be to blame? this demon you want to exorcise. You've gone from burying your head in the sand to admitting we have fundamental problems but you refuse to shine your torch in the most likely area to find them. There may be a myriad of reasons which have caused our current stagnation, but the buck stops with the manager - Hughes gets paid very well for that very reason. He can call on all sorts of specialists, experts and knowledgeable management types, from the chief scout and his network, technical director, chief executive, chairman, specialist fitness and football coaches, doctors, physios, agents to the groundsmen and tea ladies if he likes, but the final say in football matters is his and he carries the can for results and performances, both good and bad.
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Post by alster on Jan 5, 2017 14:58:49 GMT
I've thought them through including providing possible reasons. Who else could possibly be to blame? this demon you want to exorcise. You've gone from burying your head in the sand to admitting we have fundamental problems but you refuse to shine your torch in the most likely area to find them. There may be a myriad of reasons which have caused our current stagnation, but the buck stops with the manager - Hughes gets paid very well for that very reason. He can call on all sorts of specialists, experts and knowledgeable management types, from the chief scout and his network, technical director, chief executive, chairman, specialist fitness and football coaches, doctors, physios, agents to the groundsmen and tea ladies if he likes, but the final say in football matters is his and he carries the can for results and performances, both good and bad. Good performances right I think I can remember them vaguely.
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Post by GoBoks on Jan 5, 2017 15:07:06 GMT
I've thought them through including providing possible reasons. Who else could possibly be to blame? this demon you want to exorcise. You've gone from burying your head in the sand to admitting we have fundamental problems but you refuse to shine your torch in the most likely area to find them. There may be a myriad of reasons which have caused our current stagnation, but the buck stops with the manager - Hughes gets paid very well for that very reason. He can call on all sorts of specialists, experts and knowledgeable management types, from the chief scout and his network, technical director, chief executive, chairman, specialist fitness and football coaches, doctors, physios, agents to the groundsmen and tea ladies if he likes, but the final say in football matters is his and he carries the can for results and performances, both good and bad. Yes, and it is the Manager who eventually gets fired. But how many times has a previously successful manager been fired and the successor has taken the club on to better things, compared to even worse times ahead? I think that Hughes has enough savvy to sort the (relatively minor, considering our league position) issues out and achieve yet another top ten finish.
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Post by superheroantonius on Jan 5, 2017 15:12:44 GMT
I think the team sent out a message to bony bojan imbula shaq
if you are not going to get stuck in , you are not going to play
lots will disagree , but I think he's right , we all know what's meant by getting suck in ( even if it does sound very vague ) and they haven't been doing it
hope he sticks to his guns , and the four of them either give it a real go , or move on
time will tell !
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Post by alster on Jan 5, 2017 15:13:49 GMT
There may be a myriad of reasons which have caused our current stagnation, but the buck stops with the manager - Hughes gets paid very well for that very reason. He can call on all sorts of specialists, experts and knowledgeable management types, from the chief scout and his network, technical director, chief executive, chairman, specialist fitness and football coaches, doctors, physios, agents to the groundsmen and tea ladies if he likes, but the final say in football matters is his and he carries the can for results and performances, both good and bad. Yes, and it is the Manager who eventually gets fired. But how many times has a previously successful manager been fired and the successor has taken the club on to better things, compared to even worse times ahead? I think that Hughes has enough savvy to sort the (relatively minor, considering our league position) issues out and achieve yet another top ten finish. Achieving another top ten finish playing how we have been the past twelve months won't be sorting anything out. Fans are becoming tired of it, if he can't get back to being the man he was those first two seasons he's a gonner.
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Post by alster on Jan 5, 2017 15:17:20 GMT
I think the team sent out a message to bony bojan imbula shaq if you are not going to get stuck in , you are not going to play lots will disagree , but I think he's right , we all know what's meant by getting suck in ( even if it does sound very vague ) and they haven't been doing it hope he sticks to his guns , and the four of them either give it a real go , or move on time will tell ! Even a dinosaur like Pulis would acknowledge you have your piano players and piano carriers. He wasn't much use at incorporating piano players yet you support Hughes falling into the same trap.
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Post by superheroantonius on Jan 5, 2017 15:22:24 GMT
I think the team sent out a message to bony bojan imbula shaq if you are not going to get stuck in , you are not going to play lots will disagree , but I think he's right , we all know what's meant by getting suck in ( even if it does sound very vague ) and they haven't been doing it hope he sticks to his guns , and the four of them either give it a real go , or move on time will tell ! Even a dinosaur like Pulis would acknowledge you have your piano players and piano carriers. He wasn't much use at incorporating piano players yet you support Hughes falling into the same trap. We all see it differently ...
The TP I remember could take nonsense from the likes of Beattie Pennant et al if they were getting stuck in , and turn against them quickly if they weren't
Shaq for an obvious example , as obvious talent , he just needs to get his finger out !
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Post by alster on Jan 5, 2017 15:30:03 GMT
Even a dinosaur like Pulis would acknowledge you have your piano players and piano carriers. He wasn't much use at incorporating piano players yet you support Hughes falling into the same trap. We all see it differently ...
The TP I remember could take nonsense from the likes of Beattie Pennant et al if they were getting stuck in , and turn against them quickly if they weren't
Shaq for an obvious example , as obvious talent , he just needs to get his finger out !
I take it thats get his finger out like Walters? So despite the fact Shaqiri has made telling contributions that have won us far more points this season we just want to see someone who gives us that satisfaction that he's really busting his balls out there. Is this a general football thing or is it exclusive to Stoke fans because it completely illogical.
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Post by GoBoks on Jan 5, 2017 15:35:55 GMT
Yes, and it is the Manager who eventually gets fired. But how many times has a previously successful manager been fired and the successor has taken the club on to better things, compared to even worse times ahead? I think that Hughes has enough savvy to sort the (relatively minor, considering our league position) issues out and achieve yet another top ten finish. Achieving another top ten finish playing how we have been the past twelve months won't be sorting anything out. Fans are becoming tired of it, if he can't get back to being the man he was those first two seasons he's a gonner. Alster, Arguing with you is like arguing with a one-eyed parrot. I'm not going to do it. As I said in another post, I choose to enjoy every single bit of success that comes Stoke's way, including an absolutely brilliant, unprecedented in our history, fourth consecutive top ten finish which will surely see Hughes being compared very favourably with our best managers ever.
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Post by shrewspotter on Jan 5, 2017 15:44:56 GMT
I think the team sent out a message to bony bojan imbula shaq if you are not going to get stuck in , you are not going to play lots will disagree , but I think he's right , we all know what's meant by getting suck in ( even if it does sound very vague ) and they haven't been doing it hope he sticks to his guns , and the four of them either give it a real go , or move on time will tell ! I agree. 100% is the minimum you should expect from any player in any of the top 4 divisions.
I listened to Andy Griffin on the way home on P and G one evening and he said that giving 100% was a choice and if a player had decided not to give 100% they should not be in the starting XI, even the likes of Messi.
The message to Shaq, Bony, Imbula and Bojan is that you must give everything when you play and I am quite sure if they did they would all be regulars. Unfortunately though who knows what is going through their minds right now.
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Post by alster on Jan 5, 2017 15:49:15 GMT
Achieving another top ten finish playing how we have been the past twelve months won't be sorting anything out. Fans are becoming tired of it, if he can't get back to being the man he was those first two seasons he's a gonner. Alster, Arguing with you is like arguing with a one-eyed parrot. I'm not going to do it. As I said in another post, I choose to enjoy every single bit of success that comes Stoke's way, including an absolutely brilliant, unprecedented in our history, fourth consecutive top ten finish which will surely see Hughes being compared very favourably with our best managers ever. I'm not arguing with you either just trying to help you open your eyes. Don't listen to me but the mood in the ground and on this message board even after a valuable 3 points the level of disdain after a victory was fairly unprecedented itself. There is a growing frustration amongst a significant section of our support that will only intensify unless he climbs out of Tony Pulis and turns back into the bloke who replaced him. As Hughes is scarred by the heavy defeats we are scarred with years of shite football, I'm sure we won't be as tolerant for as long again for many years.
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Post by simple on Jan 5, 2017 16:08:39 GMT
The result was the most important thing on Tuesday not how we did it.What it does show after 4years MH as to turn to the old guard as he cannot trust his super stars.The team he played doesn't have many years left in it.So the summer is going to be massive and there needs to be a major restructuring of the squad,the flip side to that is bringing in to many can cause problems.But the ones he's brought in lately are not turning in performances on a regular basis.
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Post by alster on Jan 5, 2017 16:45:52 GMT
The result was the most important thing on Tuesday not how we did it.What it does show after 4years MH as to turn to the old guard as he cannot trust his super stars.The team he played doesn't have many years left in it.So the summer is going to be massive and there needs to be a major restructuring of the squad,the flip side to that is bringing in to many can cause problems.But the ones he's brought in lately are not turning in performances on a regular basis. Neither are the old guard as you refer to them and as posted in reply on another thread Tuesday was not a one off it was pretty standard maybe a bit better maybe a bit worse than home performances have been for over a year. The new players have won us just as many probably more points than the old guard there is absolutely no evidence that going back to the old guard is more productive points wise but they're surely more boring to watch. Selecting the old guard is more reflective of Hughes' current mentality than anything that can be evidenced by actual events on the pitch. He wouldn't have these issues with having to change too many things all at once if he hadn't kept players beyond their shelf life.
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Post by blurtonboy on Jan 5, 2017 17:22:42 GMT
Yes, and it is the Manager who eventually gets fired. But how many times has a previously successful manager been fired and the successor has taken the club on to better things, compared to even worse times ahead? I think that Hughes has enough savvy to sort the (relatively minor, considering our league position) issues out and achieve yet another top ten finish. Achieving another top ten finish playing how we have been the past twelve months won't be sorting anything out. In your eyes Fans are becoming tired of it, In your eyes if he can't get back to being the man he was those first two seasons he's a gonner. In your eyes No facts, just your opinion ( that you keep spouting like an Ariston washing machine, on & on & on & on & on & on ).
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Post by GoBoks on Jan 5, 2017 17:49:00 GMT
Achieving another top ten finish playing how we have been the past twelve months won't be sorting anything out. In your eyes Fans are becoming tired of it, In your eyes if he can't get back to being the man he was those first two seasons he's a gonner. In your eyes No facts, just your opinion ( that you keep spouting like an Ariston washing machine, on & on & on & on & on & on ). Hey Blurton, I object to your use of the plural. This parrot only has one eye!
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Post by timbo1988 on Jan 5, 2017 17:50:08 GMT
The issue for me with the team he picked on Wednesday was the age of it. How many more seasons can we rely on Crouch, Johnson, Walters, Adam? If we don't make the right purchases to replace these players then in 1-2 years we will become relegation candidates. Why doesn't Hughes trust the players he has signed, he needs to get them on the training pitch and working on their weaknesses if he doesn't see them in the starting eleven as Coates and Scholes will not be giving him another £18million to waste on 1 player. The purse strings seem to have been tightened looking at the summer transfer window and the rumours about January suggest a similar pattern. If we carry in this manner we will be fighting relegation before long.
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Post by blurtonboy on Jan 5, 2017 17:51:59 GMT
No facts, just your opinion ( that you keep spouting like an Ariston washing machine, on & on & on & on & on & on ). Hey Blurton, I object to your use of the plural. This parrot only has one eye! Well I did put it on the counter, I thought it was dead.
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Post by blurtonboy on Jan 5, 2017 17:53:57 GMT
The issue for me with the team he picked on Wednesday was the age of it. How many more seasons can we rely on Crouch, Johnson, Walters, Adam? If we don't make the right purchases to replace these players then in 1-2 years we will become relegation candidates. Why doesn't Hughes trust the players he has signed, he needs to get them on the training pitch and working on their weaknesses if he doesn't see them in the starting eleven as Coates and Scholes will not be giving him another £18million to waste on 1 player. The purse strings seem to have been tightened looking at the summer transfer window and the rumours about January suggest a similar pattern. If we carry in this manner we will be fighting relegation before long. Are you Benji's sensible brother? Because that's the type of shit he spouts.
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Post by GoBoks on Jan 5, 2017 17:59:41 GMT
The issue for me with the team he picked on Wednesday was the age of it. How many more seasons can we rely on Crouch, Johnson, Walters, Adam? If we don't make the right purchases to replace these players then in 1-2 years we will become relegation candidates. Why doesn't Hughes trust the players he has signed, he needs to get them on the training pitch and working on their weaknesses if he doesn't see them in the starting eleven as Coates and Scholes will not be giving him another £18million to waste on 1 player. The purse strings seem to have been tightened looking at the summer transfer window and the rumours about January suggest a similar pattern. If we carry in this manner we will be fighting relegation before long. How many extra points would we receive if the average age of the team on the field was 5 years younger? If your issue is truly "the age" and not "round pegs in square holes" or "formation", who cares, it was the right team for the job. To say we will be relegation candidates in 2 years is ludicrous. Do you honestly think that Stoke are going to persist with Crouch, Adams, Walters and Grant for the next 2 years?
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Post by alster on Jan 5, 2017 18:00:43 GMT
Achieving another top ten finish playing how we have been the past twelve months won't be sorting anything out. In your eyes Fans are becoming tired of it, In your eyes if he can't get back to being the man he was those first two seasons he's a gonner. In your eyes No facts, just your opinion ( that you keep spouting like an Ariston washing machine, on & on & on & on & on & on ). Plenty of facts I'm not a lone voice there are plenty who share my opinion perhaps you don't like me posting it, what do you post other peoples opinions? trying to belittle an opinion you don't like doesn't make it go away.
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Post by alster on Jan 5, 2017 18:01:54 GMT
The issue for me with the team he picked on Wednesday was the age of it. How many more seasons can we rely on Crouch, Johnson, Walters, Adam? If we don't make the right purchases to replace these players then in 1-2 years we will become relegation candidates. Why doesn't Hughes trust the players he has signed, he needs to get them on the training pitch and working on their weaknesses if he doesn't see them in the starting eleven as Coates and Scholes will not be giving him another £18million to waste on 1 player. The purse strings seem to have been tightened looking at the summer transfer window and the rumours about January suggest a similar pattern. If we carry in this manner we will be fighting relegation before long. How many extra points would we receive if the average age of the team on the field was 5 years younger? If your issue is truly "the age" and not "round pegs in square holes" or "formation", who cares, it was the right team for the job. To say we will be relegation candidates in 2 years is ludicrous. Do you honestly think that Stoke are going to persist with Crouch, Adams, Walters and Grant for the next 2 years? What are these contracts we're giving them charity?
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Post by Deleted on Jan 5, 2017 18:38:16 GMT
The simple fact is, his team selections are poor, his substitutes are poorer and after all this time he still has no idea what his best side is. No consistency in team selections breeds no consistency on the pitch. I've not even got into the injury issues or the fact we start games with no defenders on the bench.
What about the youth, the hot prospects? What incentive is it when we keep putting old has beens out there who produce the square root of fuck all on a weekly basis.
What exactly are we trying to do? We change formations, playing style and personnel pretty much on a weekly basis. If lumping it up to Crouch and Walters was the game plan after 3 seasons for Hughes then we may as well have kept Pulis. At least we wouldn't hold the record for the most 4+ goals conceded in a calendar year since the PL started.
Also how any chairmen can sanction the extensions on guys who are far too old and have brought us little use over the last 12 months is mind boggling. Then again thump your chest, run around a lot and say the right things and you're a legend, being British helps too.
For fuck sake we are playing a forward as right wing back, that's enough to be dragged through the streets and have rotten fruit thrown at you.
I also hear how well we played against Liverpool and Chelsea? Ya what? 8 goals conceded by 2 teams that barely got out of second gear.
I spose we can look where we have come from.
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