|
Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 3, 2016 17:06:13 GMT
|
|
|
Post by The Drunken Communist on Nov 3, 2016 17:20:55 GMT
We tried to influence the EU in our build up to the referendum, they basically told us to fuck off.
|
|
|
Post by bathstoke on Nov 3, 2016 17:34:41 GMT
the major fuck up is Blair promising a referendum on the Lisbon treaty in his election mandate and then got Brown to sign the treaty without one, Cameron campaigned for a referendum before it was signed, he was only following through on what he campaigned for as leader of the opposition. I'm not saying Cameron fucked up in giving people a referendum - it's how the bill was created and how the referendum was presented that fucked it. Half Arsed Edit: Cameron, not you Roaring
|
|
|
Post by wizzardofdribble on Nov 3, 2016 17:39:00 GMT
Without doubt we are heading into uncharted Legal waters. And they're going to get choppier & choppier. And cost the tax-payers a fortune.
|
|
|
Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 3, 2016 17:44:00 GMT
The 48% didn't just have a voice Momo they had a vote. I mean really mate. They lost. Hence the 48% not 58%. What is it about a 1 person, 1 vote, count 'em up and the winner wins referendum that you, Huddy and seemingly most politicians and London just don't fucking get??
|
|
|
Post by bathstoke on Nov 3, 2016 17:50:16 GMT
Without doubt we are heading into uncharted Legal waters. And they're going to get choppier & choppier. And cost the tax-payers a fortune. It was all very predictable. W@#&ers
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 3, 2016 17:53:46 GMT
The 48% didn't just have a voice Momo they had a vote. I mean really mate. They lost. Hence the 48% not 58%. What is it about a 1 person, 1 vote, count 'em up and the winner wins referendum that you, Huddy and seemingly most politicians and London just don't fucking get !!!!!!!! From what I can see Rog, this decision today in no way turns over that result or nor should it. It allows proper scrutiny and debate on the exit path. I accept that it might delay it and can appreciate why that's unpalatable for some but the absolutely insanely simplistic question and vile and hopeless campaign is to blame for that. You ask the 17 Million leavers and 16 Million remainers their visions of Brexit and you'll get 33 Million different answers. You ask the Cabinet and Shadow Cabinet their visions and you'll get a hundred different answers. We're coming out, the people have spoken. This is just a proper debate on the nuts and bolts where ALL views are taken. This is not a decision to be imposed by what one person thinks Brexit means. That would be the least democratic path of all.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2016 18:18:21 GMT
virtually the whole of England apart from London voted to leave didnt it? It's quite a sad picture really isn't it.
|
|
|
Post by crapslinger on Nov 3, 2016 18:44:20 GMT
Fill your boots Al...you've been rumbled mate. He's right though, Huddy. For years on this forum you've hated all the kinds of people/bankers/businesses/etc... that in recent months you suddenly agree with 'cos they think Remain is for the best. ALF is taking his stance from his political messiah Red Jezza, the stance of a massive fcukin hypocrite , now embracing the views of people he apparently despises, as a man of the people what an absolute joke he is.
|
|
|
Post by lawrieleslie on Nov 3, 2016 19:19:38 GMT
Ok if this referendum was always going to be "advisory" and require the ratification of Parliament, I wonder if the same would have applied had the country had voted to remain??
|
|
|
Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 3, 2016 19:20:07 GMT
He's right though, Huddy. For years on this forum you've hated all the kinds of people/bankers/businesses/etc... that in recent months you suddenly agree with 'cos they think Remain is for the best. ALF is taking his stance from his political messiah Red Jezza, the stance of a massive fcukin hypocrite , now embracing the views of people he apparently despises, as a man of the people what an absolute joke he is. When is it you emigrate to Spain again? Hypocrite? Let's start on your fucking doorstep you absolute weapon...
|
|
|
Post by Huddysleftfoot on Nov 3, 2016 19:21:34 GMT
The 48% didn't just have a voice Momo they had a vote. I mean really mate. They lost. Hence the 48% not 58%. What is it about a 1 person, 1 vote, count 'em up and the winner wins referendum that you, Huddy and seemingly most politicians and London just don't fucking get?? Not really having a go at you here Rog but you'll note I've already said I accept the result. Get a grip mate eh?
|
|
|
Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 3, 2016 19:48:20 GMT
The 48% didn't just have a voice Momo they had a vote. I mean really mate. They lost. Hence the 48% not 58%. What is it about a 1 person, 1 vote, count 'em up and the winner wins referendum that you, Huddy and seemingly most politicians and London just don't fucking get !!!!!!!! From what I can see Rog, this decision today in no way turns over that result or nor should it. It allows proper scrutiny and debate on the exit path. I accept that it might delay it and can appreciate why that's unpalatable for some but the absolutely insanely simplistic question and vile and hopeless campaign is to blame for that. You ask the 17 Million leavers and 16 Million remainers their visions of Brexit and you'll get 33 Million different answers. You ask the Cabinet and Shadow Cabinet their visions and you'll get a hundred different answers. We're coming out, the people have spoken. This is just a proper debate on the nuts and bolts where ALL views are taken. This is not a decision to be imposed by what one person thinks Brexit means. That would be the least democratic path of all. The decision today allows an appeal and potentially months of filibuster before a vote to trigger Article 50. Then the House of Lords and after no doubt some self centered Investment Banker taking it to the European Court. Of course it's part of a plan not to Leave. But you and Huddy and the MSM and London are wrong from here on in. The reason many voted to Leave the EU was because we don't want debate by endless committee's. "33 million voters and hundreds of MP's" This was the problem mate. We don't want ALL to be involved. 1 person 1 vote 1 result 1 Government (who called the referendum) 1 party Leader 1 negotiating team. If that sentence doesn't apply to you then you don't get a seat at the table. Really, really simple.
|
|
|
Post by bathstoke on Nov 3, 2016 19:51:26 GMT
Ok if this referendum was always going to be "advisory" and require the ratification of Parliament, I wonder if the same would have applied had the country had voted to remain?? That wouldn't have required constitutional change. We've backed ourselves into a corner. The Gvnt have acted outside the law & the Judges hands are tied. Thanks Dave. I wonder why he £@#&ed o££!?!
|
|
|
Post by partickpotter on Nov 3, 2016 19:57:32 GMT
I'm confused about the real impact of today's decision.
The inference from some means that there will now be scrutiny of the terms of Brexit - hard, soft, floppy, with a pink bow... Whatever.
But, the detail of what Brexit is will only emerge in the negotiations following the triggering of Article 50.
So what can be said prior to this event that now requires a parliamentary vote? Nothing very much IMO.
So today's momentous news is not really very much at all.
Parliament will vote in favour.
The big question is what scrutiny follows in he two years after Article 50 is triggered as the terms of exit are agreed (or not - a lack of agreement is possible of course in which case we leave with no agreement).
|
|
|
Post by RipRoaringPotter on Nov 3, 2016 20:01:21 GMT
From what I can see Rog, this decision today in no way turns over that result or nor should it. It allows proper scrutiny and debate on the exit path. I accept that it might delay it and can appreciate why that's unpalatable for some but the absolutely insanely simplistic question and vile and hopeless campaign is to blame for that. You ask the 17 Million leavers and 16 Million remainers their visions of Brexit and you'll get 33 Million different answers. You ask the Cabinet and Shadow Cabinet their visions and you'll get a hundred different answers. We're coming out, the people have spoken. This is just a proper debate on the nuts and bolts where ALL views are taken. This is not a decision to be imposed by what one person thinks Brexit means. That would be the least democratic path of all. The decision today allows an appeal and potentially months of filibuster before a vote to trigger Article 50. Then the House of Lords and after no doubt some self centered Investment Banker taking it to the European Court. Of course it's part of a plan not to Leave. But you and Huddy and the MSM and London are wrong from here on in. The reason many voted to Leave the EU was because we don't want debate by endless committee's. "33 million voters and hundreds of MP's" This was the problem mate. We don't want ALL to be involved. 1 person 1 vote 1 result 1 Government (who called the referendum) 1 party Leader 1 negotiating team. If that sentence doesn't apply to you then you don't get a seat at the table. Really, really simple. It's not simple though is it? I mean we're leaving an organisation that we have been integrating with for 40 fucking years. You sound like a man who thought this leaving lark would be all wrapped up by Christmas. This will rumble on for years and years and years and years. It will shade every decision government and businesses make over the next decade (at least). In fact, almost every single thing anyone does will be in some way affected by Brexit. If you haven't got the stamina, then don't get a seat at the table
|
|
|
Post by RipRoaringPotter on Nov 3, 2016 20:05:01 GMT
I'm confused about the real impact of today's decision. The inference from some means that there will now be scrutiny of the terms of Brexit - hard, soft, floppy, with a pink bow... Whatever. But, the detail of what Brexit is will only emerge in the negotiations following the triggering of Article 50. So what can be said prior to this event that now requires a parliamentary vote? Nothing very much IMO. So today's momentous news is not really very much at all. Parliament will vote in favour. The big question is what scrutiny follows in he two years after Article 50 is triggered as the terms of exit are agreed (or not - a lack of agreement is possible of course in which case we leave with no agreement). Agreed with you on that. The main thing I think could possibly change is that some MPs may be able to get concessions on the type of Brexit we will be negiotiating, in return for a vote to trigger Article 50. But of course, nothing will be negotiated until after the vote, so even those concessions would have to be in 'good faith' (stop laughing at the back).
|
|
|
Post by followyoudown on Nov 3, 2016 20:05:23 GMT
I'm confused about the real impact of today's decision. The inference from some means that there will now be scrutiny of the terms of Brexit - hard, soft, floppy, with a pink bow... Whatever. But, the detail of what Brexit is will only emerge in the negotiations following the triggering of Article 50. So what can be said prior to this event that now requires a parliamentary vote? Nothing very much IMO. So today's momentous news is not really very much at all. Parliament will vote in favour. The big question is what scrutiny follows in he two years after Article 50 is triggered as the terms of exit are agreed (or not - a lack of agreement is possible of course in which case we leave with no agreement). I think that sums it up quite well, another thought all those who want parliament to vote will you still hold to that if a snap general election is called and the Tories get a 100÷ majority, I sense some goal posts might be moved if that is the case.
|
|
|
Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 3, 2016 20:16:23 GMT
The decision today allows an appeal and potentially months of filibuster before a vote to trigger Article 50. Then the House of Lords and after no doubt some self centered Investment Banker taking it to the European Court. Of course it's part of a plan not to Leave. But you and Huddy and the MSM and London are wrong from here on in. The reason many voted to Leave the EU was because we don't want debate by endless committee's. "33 million voters and hundreds of MP's" This was the problem mate. We don't want ALL to be involved. 1 person 1 vote 1 result 1 Government (who called the referendum) 1 party Leader 1 negotiating team. If that sentence doesn't apply to you then you don't get a seat at the table. Really, really simple. It's not simple though is it? I mean we're leaving an organisation that we have been integrating with for 40 fucking years. You sound like a man who thought this leaving lark would be all wrapped up by Christmas. This will rumble on for years and years and years and years. It will shade every decision government and businesses make over the next decade (at least). In fact, almost every single thing anyone does will be in some way affected by Brexit. If you haven't got the stamina, then don't get a seat at the table No. If you didn't get the votes or you're not in the Government you don't get a seat at the table. Really simple. We are leaving an organisation after 40 years of changes but no consultation during that time. It might not be completed by Christmas but here's a thing. Donald Tusk, who appointed the Chief EU Brexit negotiator said "Hard Brexit or no Brexit". Fuck it. Let's just email 'em Article 50 tomorrow and Leave on Monday. That's democracy bud. Are you ready? I am :-)
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 3, 2016 20:17:50 GMT
Leavers should be delighted by today's verdict. It's stopped May and her absolutely meaningless phrase 'Brexit means Brexit' from plunging us into a constitutional crisis that could have seen legal challenges going on for decades.
This will make the process more collaborative. Yeah there will no doubt be deals in smoky rooms and delays but that's your 'constitution' and that's your 'sovereignty' as it exists.
May with her 'lack of running commentary' and arbitrary March date was trying to usurp principles that were behind many voters decision to leave in the first place.
|
|
|
Post by RipRoaringPotter on Nov 3, 2016 20:37:17 GMT
It's not simple though is it? I mean we're leaving an organisation that we have been integrating with for 40 fucking years. You sound like a man who thought this leaving lark would be all wrapped up by Christmas. This will rumble on for years and years and years and years. It will shade every decision government and businesses make over the next decade (at least). In fact, almost every single thing anyone does will be in some way affected by Brexit. If you haven't got the stamina, then don't get a seat at the table No. If you didn't get the votes or you're not in the Government you don't get a seat at the table. Really simple. We are leaving an organisation after 40 years of changes but no consultation during that time. It might not be completed by Christmas but here's a thing. Donald Tusk, who appointed the Chief EU Brexit negotiator said "Hard Brexit or no Brexit". Fuck it. Let's just email 'em Article 50 tomorrow and Leave on Monday. That's democracy bud. Are you ready? I am :-) If anyone can show me a plan that goes beyond sending an email to Donald Tusk, then I might be in. And I don't mean you - I mean politicians who clearly have no fucking idea what they're doing. Until then I can't be ready for a plan that appears to be no deeper than "I'll let you know the plan after I've enacted it". And that's my issue with this from the start - there's nothing but bluster and showmanship behind the plans to leave at the moment. If any of the protagonists of Brexit had shown some vision or some clue to the future then it's quite possible more people would've "shut the fuck up and got on with it". The way things are going, if we tried emailing Donald Tusk we'd mistype the email address, the delivery notice failure would sit unseen in the trash, and the whole country would wait for another year to wonder why he hasn't replied. The Daily Mail would of course have 'sources' that say he hasn't emailed because he's spending his time in his harem being fanned down by ten naked beauties while at the same time eating straight bananas - all at the tax payers expense of course. To conclude, I'll be ready when someone comes up with a plan. My expectations are so low, it doesn't even have to be a decent one anymore. Just a plan will do. For a second it looked as though May had a plan, and even I didn't like it, a shit plan is better than nothing. Then it transpired that her plan was unlawful and against the laws of basic democracy. Oh well, back to the drawing board.
|
|
|
Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 3, 2016 20:52:38 GMT
It's quite a sad picture really isn't it. Looks like the sun is shining on the righteous. Scorchio :-)
|
|
|
Post by harryburrows on Nov 3, 2016 21:10:28 GMT
I'm confused about the real impact of today's decision. The inference from some means that there will now be scrutiny of the terms of Brexit - hard, soft, floppy, with a pink bow... Whatever. But, the detail of what Brexit is will only emerge in the negotiations following the triggering of Article 50. So what can be said prior to this event that now requires a parliamentary vote? Nothing very much IMO. So today's momentous news is not really very much at all. Parliament will vote in favour. The big question is what scrutiny follows in he two years after Article 50 is triggered as the terms of exit are agreed (or not - a lack of agreement is possible of course in which case we leave with no agreement). The problem with soft Brexit is it's not what people voted for VOTE FOR. ............. SOFT BREXIT 1 immigration control ........... ............... Free movement of labour in exchange for access to single market 2. No more £350 mil per week to Brussels. .................. Contributions to continue in exchange for access to single market 3 less EU red tape and return of sovereignty ............................. Have to comply with EU regulations. ". ". ". ". " It's hard or nothing imo
|
|
|
Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 3, 2016 21:10:55 GMT
No. If you didn't get the votes or you're not in the Government you don't get a seat at the table. Really simple. We are leaving an organisation after 40 years of changes but no consultation during that time. It might not be completed by Christmas but here's a thing. Donald Tusk, who appointed the Chief EU Brexit negotiator said "Hard Brexit or no Brexit". Fuck it. Let's just email 'em Article 50 tomorrow and Leave on Monday. That's democracy bud. Are you ready? I am :-) If anyone can show me a plan that goes beyond sending an email to Donald Tusk, then I might be in. And I don't mean you - I mean politicians who clearly have no fucking idea what they're doing. Until then I can't be ready for a plan that appears to be no deeper than "I'll let you know the plan after I've enacted it". And that's my issue with this from the start - there's nothing but bluster and showmanship behind the plans to leave at the moment. If any of the protagonists of Brexit had shown some vision or some clue to the future then it's quite possible more people would've "shut the fuck up and got on with it". The way things are going, if we tried emailing Donald Tusk we'd mistype the email address, the delivery notice failure would sit unseen in the trash, and the whole country would wait for another year to wonder why he hasn't replied. The Daily Mail would of course have 'sources' that say he hasn't emailed because he's spending his time in his harem being fanned down by ten naked beauties while at the same time eating straight bananas - all at the tax payers expense of course. To conclude, I'll be ready when someone comes up with a plan. My expectations are so low, it doesn't even have to be a decent one anymore. Just a plan will do. For a second it looked as though May had a plan, and even I didn't like it, a shit plan is better than nothing. Then it transpired that her plan was unlawful and against the laws of basic democracy. Oh well, back to the drawing board. Ok I'm doing some micro pubs tonight so I'll make this short.... "I might be in"..... we've already had the vote mate. If you think you can do better than existing MP's then put yourself forward. It's not like you didn't know this was coming........ hang on....... you did know this was happening right? You were following politics before the 2015 GE? The rest of the post is white noise. Although Mo likes it so it must be ace. "To conclude" :-)
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2016 21:23:39 GMT
Ok if this referendum was always going to be "advisory" and require the ratification of Parliament, I wonder if the same would have applied had the country had voted to remain?? One person can force us to join, yet one person can't get us to leave with the will of around 18 million people.
|
|
|
Post by RipRoaringPotter on Nov 3, 2016 21:23:40 GMT
If anyone can show me a plan that goes beyond sending an email to Donald Tusk, then I might be in. And I don't mean you - I mean politicians who clearly have no fucking idea what they're doing. Until then I can't be ready for a plan that appears to be no deeper than "I'll let you know the plan after I've enacted it". And that's my issue with this from the start - there's nothing but bluster and showmanship behind the plans to leave at the moment. If any of the protagonists of Brexit had shown some vision or some clue to the future then it's quite possible more people would've "shut the fuck up and got on with it". The way things are going, if we tried emailing Donald Tusk we'd mistype the email address, the delivery notice failure would sit unseen in the trash, and the whole country would wait for another year to wonder why he hasn't replied. The Daily Mail would of course have 'sources' that say he hasn't emailed because he's spending his time in his harem being fanned down by ten naked beauties while at the same time eating straight bananas - all at the tax payers expense of course. To conclude, I'll be ready when someone comes up with a plan. My expectations are so low, it doesn't even have to be a decent one anymore. Just a plan will do. For a second it looked as though May had a plan, and even I didn't like it, a shit plan is better than nothing. Then it transpired that her plan was unlawful and against the laws of basic democracy. Oh well, back to the drawing board. Ok I'm doing some micro pubs tonight so I'll make this short.... "I might be in"..... we've already had the vote mate. If you think you can do better than existing MP's then put yourself forward. It's not like you didn't know this was coming........ hang on....... you did know this was happening right? You were following politics before the 2015 GE? The rest of the post is white noise. Although Mo likes it so it must be ace. "To conclude" :-) I wouldn't go near organising this clusterfuck if you paid me all the money in the treasury, although that's fast dwindling as well I admit to not knowing our political system was quite as much of a mess as it is. We've offered a referendum that was advisory, forget to really mention that it was advisory, tried making it legally binding after the referendum has been held, and have now been pulled up by our own legal system for trying to pull a fast one over our democratically elected parliament. All of this done in the name democracy. I was fully aware this was coming - I know Brexit will be rumbling on for years, and will be pissing myself laughing at all the brave, noble Brexiteers on here who are getting more pissed off that it's not already done and dusted. Comedy gold, and the length of proceedings means it will be so for some time to come. Have a good time at your "micro pubs" :-)
|
|
|
Post by Gods on Nov 3, 2016 21:35:54 GMT
The decision today allows an appeal and potentially months of filibuster before a vote to trigger Article 50. Then the House of Lords and after no doubt some self centered Investment Banker taking it to the European Court. Of course it's part of a plan not to Leave. But you and Huddy and the MSM and London are wrong from here on in. The reason many voted to Leave the EU was because we don't want debate by endless committee's. "33 million voters and hundreds of MP's" This was the problem mate. We don't want ALL to be involved. 1 person 1 vote 1 result 1 Government (who called the referendum) 1 party Leader 1 negotiating team. If that sentence doesn't apply to you then you don't get a seat at the table. Really, really simple. It's not simple though is it? I mean we're leaving an organisation that we have been integrating with for 40 fucking years. You sound like a man who thought this leaving lark would be all wrapped up by Christmas. This will rumble on for years and years and years and years. It will shade every decision government and businesses make over the next decade (at least). In fact, almost every single thing anyone does will be in some way affected by Brexit. If you haven't got the stamina, then don't get a seat at the table Decades, it will take fucking decades to pick the bits out of this fucker, anyone with even half a brain will tell you that.
|
|
|
Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 3, 2016 21:39:55 GMT
So do you accept that the UK will eventually after a while, and after your gloating, and after some legal shenanigans Leave the EU?
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2016 21:40:05 GMT
I'm confused about the real impact of today's decision. The inference from some means that there will now be scrutiny of the terms of Brexit - hard, soft, floppy, with a pink bow... Whatever. But, the detail of what Brexit is will only emerge in the negotiations following the triggering of Article 50. So what can be said prior to this event that now requires a parliamentary vote? Nothing very much IMO. So today's momentous news is not really very much at all. Parliament will vote in favour. The big question is what scrutiny follows in he two years after Article 50 is triggered as the terms of exit are agreed (or not - a lack of agreement is possible of course in which case we leave with no agreement). The problem with soft Brexit is it's not what people voted for VOTE FOR. ............. SOFT BREXIT 1 immigration control ........... ............... Free movement of labour in exchange for access to single market 2. No more £350 mil per week to Brussels. .................. Contributions to continue in exchange for access to single market 3 less EU red tape and return of sovereignty ............................. Have to comply with EU regulations. ". ". ". ". " It's hard or nothing imo The only question on the ballot paper was whether or not you wanted the UK to remain in or leave the EU. The terms of the exit have to be negotiated with the best interests of the country in mind. We can remain in the single market, have control over free movement and live under our own laws without being under their control. You just have to look further than the likes of Sky, the BBC, the Mail and the Express to find out how.
|
|
|
Post by Rednwhitenblue on Nov 3, 2016 21:41:50 GMT
It's such a stupid fucking idea anyway. If anyone needed any confirmation of that just look at what happened to our currency as soon as this verdict was announced, then just watch what will happen to it when we continue along the path (and we will) towards the exit door and further decline.
Sheer lunacy if you really can't see that.
|
|