|
Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2016 15:06:46 GMT
The concession does not go as far as specifying that MPs should get a formal vote on article 50 or any Brexit deal. The law of the land does If we go by the law of the land.....Magna Carta , surely the people that took us into this European Union in the first place should be tried for selling out the United Kingdom's sovereignty. TREASON, TREASON I SAY!
|
|
|
Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 8, 2016 16:08:12 GMT
Er... no. The debate raged for months before the vote. It's finished. I know for a fact what the referendum question didn't ask "Do you want Parliament to begin debating the pros and cons of Brexit?" There are always fait accompli deals done during a parliament. We get to use 'democratic scrutiny' at the next GE. "Brexit means Brexit" was a perfectly understandable phrase at the time because of the uproar, denial, open debates, protests and petitions to reverse the result. May was a new PM who drew a line under the thrashing and wailing. The constitutional reason is that you and I both know full well that it will be debated back and forth with no acceptance until the concessions that appease every Nick, Ed and Jeremy will be fully known to the EU negotiators and we will effectively be back to where we were before the referendum. The wishes of the majority filibustered by snide Westminster suits, ego maniacal regional Leaders and greedy Multi Nationals.............. hang on...... shouldn't you be writing that..... Brexit clearly doesn't mean Brexit for Nissan. They've already had their secret assurances of protection. I presume you're against this as it's very much against the Spirit of Brexit. Well you can call them "secret assurances" if you like, but I think it's refreshing that May is delivering on her inaugural speech by protecting British jobs in the poorer parts of the country with some State reassurance. "If you’re from an ordinary working class family, life is much harder than many people in Westminster realise. You have a job but you don’t always have job security." "When we take the big calls, we’ll think not of the powerful, but you." "When we pass new laws, we’ll listen not to the mighty but to you."
Prime Minister Theresa May 13 July 2016.It brings a tear to the eye Mo it really does.
|
|
|
Post by RipRoaringPotter on Nov 8, 2016 16:15:00 GMT
Brexit clearly doesn't mean Brexit for Nissan. They've already had their secret assurances of protection. I presume you're against this as it's very much against the Spirit of Brexit. Well you can call them "secret assurances" if you like, but I think it's refreshing that May is delivering on her inaugural speech by protecting British jobs in the poorer parts of the country with some State reassurance. "If you’re from an ordinary working class family, life is much harder than many people in Westminster realise. You have a job but you don’t always have job security." "When we take the big calls, we’ll think not of the powerful, but you." "When we pass new laws, we’ll listen not to the mighty but to you."
Prime Minister Theresa May 13 July 2016.It brings a tear to the eye Mo it really does. There's been many low points when discussing Brexit on this board, but believing what a politician says is a disgraceful state of affairs. Ban him Admin
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 8, 2016 16:21:08 GMT
Brexit clearly doesn't mean Brexit for Nissan. They've already had their secret assurances of protection. I presume you're against this as it's very much against the Spirit of Brexit. Well you can call them "secret assurances" if you like, but I think it's refreshing that May is delivering on her inaugural speech by protecting British jobs in the poorer parts of the country with some State reassurance. "If you’re from an ordinary working class family, life is much harder than many people in Westminster realise. You have a job but you don’t always have job security." "When we take the big calls, we’ll think not of the powerful, but you." "When we pass new laws, we’ll listen not to the mighty but to you."
Prime Minister Theresa May 13 July 2016.It brings a tear to the eye Mo it really does. I'm happy she's done it as well. I wonder if she will protect the Pottery industry in the same way? Either way it's not Brexit is it because Brexit can't possibly mean Brexit in every situation. We haven't even reached article 50 and secret exclusions are being agreed away from Parliament. Yet you want as little clarity as possible on the matter. You want to wake up 18 months after March and just see what we've been left with? Who are May and the Tories winners and losers in their own private game of Brexit Bingo. In reality of course the main reason they want to deal in secret is over the inevitable concessions on free movement. She won't want you Brexiteers pawing over the details on that. If this is democracy and sovereignty why does it feel like dictatorship and have the secrecy of the 80s Kremlin around it!
|
|
|
Post by Skankmonkey on Nov 8, 2016 16:55:22 GMT
Just skimming through this, it seems a reasonably good tempered debate. Makes a change.
On 23 June The British people advised the Government(Executive) of their wish to leave the EU. After a change in personnel that is what the Government(Executive) is attempting to achieve. They give the impression of competence and, given enough time, look likely to achieve this end. To do that, though, they are going to have to follow the process of democratic representative governance that has been in place in this country since the Civil War. i.e. The Executive rules only on sufferance of the Parliament which represents the will of the People; with all parties concerned subject to the will of the independent judiciary and all parties having free recourse to the ruling of the Law.
There is a long road ahead and there will be plenty of hiccups and, no doubt, several further legal challenges to come. The Executive has to get the so called "Great Reform Bill" (a smart manoeuver, incidentally) through both Houses of Parliament yet! If the Supreme Court rules against the Executive next month, there might even need to be a General Election. That will require 2/3 of Parliament voting to dissolve itself or, alternatively, a majority vote of no confidence in the Executive. So - plenty of fun and games to come!
However long it takes, at some point several years from now , The UK will leave the EU. Have no doubt of that. People will need to be patient though and not be swayed by the agendas of extremists and conspiratards which have little to do with the exercise of democracy.
Farage's threatened 100,000 man march to intimidate the Supreme Court is not the way to go. The precedents don't bode well for anyone concerned.
Another odious, preening narcissist's march on a capital city 1922.
|
|
|
Post by bathstoke on Nov 8, 2016 17:19:03 GMT
Just skimming through this, it seems a reasonably good tempered debate. Makes a change.
On 23 June The British people advised the Government(Executive) of their wish to leave the EU. After a change in personnel that is what the Government(Executive) is attempting to achieve. They give the impression of competence and, given enough time, look likely to achieve this end. To do that, though, they are going to have to follow the process of democratic representative governance that has been in place in this country since the Civil War. i.e. The Executive rules only on sufferance of the Parliament which represents the will of the People; with all parties concerned subject to the will of the independent judiciary and all parties having free recourse to the ruling of the Law.
There is a long road ahead and there will be plenty of hiccups and, no doubt, several further legal challenges to come. The Executive has to get the so called "Great Reform Bill" (a smart manoeuver, incidentally) through both Houses of Parliament yet! If the Supreme Court rules against the Executive next month, there might even need to be a General Election. That will require 2/3 of Parliament voting to dissolve itself or, alternatively, a majority vote of no confidence in the Executive. So - plenty of fun and games to come!
However long it takes, at some point several years from now , The UK will leave the EU. Have no doubt of that. People will need to be patient though and not be swayed by the agendas of extremists and conspiratards which have little to do with the exercise of democracy.
Farage's threatened 100,000 man march to intimidate the Supreme Court is not the way to go. The precedents don't bode well for anyone concerned.
Another odious, preening narcissist's march on a capital city 1922.
It'd be similar to when he rocked up in Edinburgh & ended hiding in a pub away from his opponents. If he wants to take this to the streets, he will quickly find that the narrow majority that Brexit won by, would not necessarily translate into mob victory...
|
|
|
Post by Skankmonkey on Nov 8, 2016 17:42:32 GMT
Just skimming through this, it seems a reasonably good tempered debate. Makes a change.
On 23 June The British people advised the Government(Executive) of their wish to leave the EU. After a change in personnel that is what the Government(Executive) is attempting to achieve. They give the impression of competence and, given enough time, look likely to achieve this end. To do that, though, they are going to have to follow the process of democratic representative governance that has been in place in this country since the Civil War. i.e. The Executive rules only on sufferance of the Parliament which represents the will of the People; with all parties concerned subject to the will of the independent judiciary and all parties having free recourse to the ruling of the Law.
There is a long road ahead and there will be plenty of hiccups and, no doubt, several further legal challenges to come. The Executive has to get the so called "Great Reform Bill" (a smart manoeuver, incidentally) through both Houses of Parliament yet! If the Supreme Court rules against the Executive next month, there might even need to be a General Election. That will require 2/3 of Parliament voting to dissolve itself or, alternatively, a majority vote of no confidence in the Executive. So - plenty of fun and games to come!
However long it takes, at some point several years from now , The UK will leave the EU. Have no doubt of that. People will need to be patient though and not be swayed by the agendas of extremists and conspiratards which have little to do with the exercise of democracy.
Farage's threatened 100,000 man march to intimidate the Supreme Court is not the way to go. The precedents don't bode well for anyone concerned.
Another odious, preening narcissist's march on a capital city 1922.
It'd be similar to when he rocked up in Edinburgh & ended hiding in a pub away from his opponents. If he wants to take this to the streets, he will quickly find that the narrow majority that Brexit won by, would not necessarily translate into mob victory... Given the subject matter I propose a game of:-
ROUNDHEAD or CAVALIER?
Roundhead for me.
|
|
|
Post by bathstoke on Nov 8, 2016 17:52:04 GMT
It'd be similar to when he rocked up in Edinburgh & ended hiding in a pub away from his opponents. If he wants to take this to the streets, he will quickly find that the narrow majority that Brexit won by, would not necessarily translate into mob victory... Given the subject matter I propose a game of:-
ROUNDHEAD or CAVALIER?
Roundhead for me.
New Model Army all the way
|
|
|
Post by PerCyfilth ....Captains Log on Nov 8, 2016 17:53:13 GMT
Has there been any indication about what the 350m will be spent on? I haven't seen anything about it yet. Farage has admitted on TV the day after the referendum that this 350 million was a lie. Our gross contribution(membership fee) last year was £18bn..we got back 5 (we don't actually send it) making our net contribution £13bn...do the sums... We don't actually send them £350M a week if you want to be pedantic about it... but that is the cost of membership before the rebate.
|
|
|
Post by Titan Uranus on Nov 8, 2016 18:59:13 GMT
Farage has admitted on TV the day after the referendum that this 350 million was a lie. Our gross contribution(membership fee) last year was £18bn..we got back 5 (we don't actually send it) making our net contribution £13bn...do the sums... We don't actually send them £350M a week if you want to be pedantic about it... but that is the cost of membership before the rebate. The lie was the inference where the 350 m was going (if you talking to me Perc)
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2016 19:27:02 GMT
Our gross contribution(membership fee) last year was £18bn..we got back 5 (we don't actually send it) making our net contribution £13bn...do the sums... We don't actually send them £350M a week if you want to be pedantic about it... but that is the cost of membership before the rebate. The lie was the inference where the 350 m was going (if you talking to me Perc) The biggest lie was by David Cameron (THE PRIME MINISTER OF THE DAY) claiming that he'd secured reforms from the EU, knowing full well that there can only be reforms to the EU by treaties being rewritten. Then he lies again calling for people to vote for a reformed EU.
|
|
|
Post by wizzardofdribble on Nov 8, 2016 19:31:06 GMT
Given the subject matter I propose a game of:-
ROUNDHEAD or CAVALIER?
Roundhead for me.
New Model Army all the way I believe in killing the bastards Killing the bastards
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2016 19:44:07 GMT
Shocking isn't it. I can't believe that these politicians have been lying. Now can someone point me to a politician who tells the truth?
|
|
|
Post by bathstoke on Nov 8, 2016 20:10:37 GMT
New Model Army all the way I believe in killing the bastards Killing the bastards God bless him, in his day Cromwell banned the pagan festival of "Christmas"
|
|
|
Post by Titan Uranus on Nov 8, 2016 20:19:37 GMT
The lie was the inference where the 350 m was going (if you talking to me Perc) The biggest lie was by David Cameron (THE PRIME MINISTER OF THE DAY) claiming that he'd secured reforms from the EU, knowing full well that there can only be reforms to the EU by treaties being rewritten. Then he lies again calling for people to vote for a reformed EU. Not disagreeing Sahara...but.. The leave campaign told downright lies that the CPS are investigating. The remain campaign could have exaggerated the consequences somewhat. Though there is a long way to go yet so could be proved right. Big difference. There are a lot of top notch law firms rubbing their hands as we speak.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2016 20:31:18 GMT
The biggest lie was by David Cameron (THE PRIME MINISTER OF THE DAY) claiming that he'd secured reforms from the EU, knowing full well that there can only be reforms to the EU by treaties being rewritten. Then he lies again calling for people to vote for a reformed EU. Not disagreeing Sahara...but.. The leave campaign told downright lies that the CPS are investigating. The remain campaign could have exaggerated the consequences somewhat. Though there is a long way to go yet so could be proved right. Big difference. There are a lot of top notch law firms rubbing their hands as we speak. The Vote Leave claims were disingenuous and debunked by the overwhelming majority, including many who were pro-Brexit. It's not in the same league as Cameron's lies about EU reform.
|
|
|
Post by Titan Uranus on Nov 8, 2016 20:50:32 GMT
Not disagreeing Sahara...but.. The leave campaign told downright lies that the CPS are investigating. The remain campaign could have exaggerated the consequences somewhat. Though there is a long way to go yet so could be proved right. Big difference. There are a lot of top notch law firms rubbing their hands as we speak. The Vote Leave claims were disingenuous and debunked by the overwhelming majority, including many who were pro-Brexit. It's not in the same league as Cameron's lies about EU reform. Let's the CPS decide
|
|
|
Post by crapslinger on Nov 8, 2016 21:07:31 GMT
I believe in killing the bastards Killing the bastards God bless him, in his day Cromwell banned the pagan festival of "Christmas" Or as our comrades would have it called" Winterfest"
|
|
|
Post by wizzardofdribble on Nov 8, 2016 21:30:23 GMT
God bless him, in his day Cromwell banned the pagan festival of "Christmas" Or as our comrades would have it called" Winterfest" Remember seeing New Model Army at the Kings Hall in Stoke mid 80s 'I believe in justice I believe in vengeance I believe in killing the bastards Killing the bastards' 'Vengeance' was the encore I'd stick it on but I don't know how to..
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2016 22:12:18 GMT
Not disagreeing Sahara...but.. The leave campaign told downright lies that the CPS are investigating. The remain campaign could have exaggerated the consequences somewhat. Though there is a long way to go yet so could be proved right. Big difference. There are a lot of top notch law firms rubbing their hands as we speak. The Vote Leave claims were disingenuous and debunked by the overwhelming majority, including many who were pro-Brexit. It's not in the same league as Cameron's lies about EU reform. Let's be honest politically the referendum was a sham, both sides were ridiculously biased and fed lie after lie. However you will find most people had already made up their minds before they started their campaigns.
|
|
|
Post by crapslinger on Nov 8, 2016 22:24:46 GMT
The Vote Leave claims were disingenuous and debunked by the overwhelming majority, including many who were pro-Brexit. It's not in the same league as Cameron's lies about EU reform. Let's be honest politically the referendum was a sham, both sides were ridiculously biased and fed lie after lie. However you will find most people had already made up their minds before they started their campaigns. The ones who have witnessed how the Common Market has morphed into a dictatorship over 40 years certainly did, unfortunately politicians tend to be liars goes with the territory always has always will, personally I would rather have liars who are accountable to the UK voters than liars who are not.
|
|
|
Post by rogerjonesisgod on Nov 8, 2016 22:27:17 GMT
Well you can call them "secret assurances" if you like, but I think it's refreshing that May is delivering on her inaugural speech by protecting British jobs in the poorer parts of the country with some State reassurance. "If you’re from an ordinary working class family, life is much harder than many people in Westminster realise. You have a job but you don’t always have job security." "When we take the big calls, we’ll think not of the powerful, but you." "When we pass new laws, we’ll listen not to the mighty but to you."
Prime Minister Theresa May 13 July 2016.It brings a tear to the eye Mo it really does. I'm happy she's done it as well. I wonder if she will protect the Pottery industry in the same way? Either way it's not Brexit is it because Brexit can't possibly mean Brexit in every situation. We haven't even reached article 50 and secret exclusions are being agreed away from Parliament. Yet you want as little clarity as possible on the matter. You want to wake up 18 months after March and just see what we've been left with? Who are May and the Tories winners and losers in their own private game of Brexit Bingo. In reality of course the main reason they want to deal in secret is over the inevitable concessions on free movement. She won't want you Brexiteers pawing over the details on that. If this is democracy and sovereignty why does it feel like dictatorship and have the secrecy of the 80s Kremlin around it! Good thinking Mo. I'll get in touch with her re: the pottery industry It's exciting isn't it ? She's already off and running No doubt had a little post-Brexit word with those Chinese as well over Hinckley Point She doesn't miss a trick. Let's leave those Westminster gravy train commuters to argue about arguing, we're off and running Comrade!! Come on Mo! Keep up!
|
|
|
Post by bathstoke on Nov 9, 2016 7:49:03 GMT
God bless him, in his day Cromwell banned the pagan festival of "Christmas" Or as our comrades would have it called" Winterfest" Christmas is Christian in name only. It has no Christian values in it. It's a festival of drunkeness & greed. When was the last time you went to church at or around Christmas...
|
|
|
Post by skemstokie on Nov 9, 2016 9:07:13 GMT
Well you can call them "secret assurances" if you like, but I think it's refreshing that May is delivering on her inaugural speech by protecting British jobs in the poorer parts of the country with some State reassurance. "If you’re from an ordinary working class family, life is much harder than many people in Westminster realise. You have a job but you don’t always have job security." "When we take the big calls, we’ll think not of the powerful, but you." "When we pass new laws, we’ll listen not to the mighty but to you."
Prime Minister Theresa May 13 July 2016.It brings a tear to the eye Mo it really does. There's been many low points when discussing Brexit on this board, but believing what a politician says is a disgraceful state of affairs. Ban him Admin People listened too and believed Johnson ,Farage,Gove etc. so nothing will surprise me, if Corbyn, Brexit and now Trump can win a majority vote the world is surely going through a crazy era.
|
|
|
Post by stayingupfor GermanStokie on Nov 9, 2016 9:24:47 GMT
Or as our comrades would have it called" Winterfest" Christmas is Christian in name only. It has no Christian values in it. It's a festival of drunkeness & greed. When was the last time you went to church at or around Christmas... Every year
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 9:57:59 GMT
Our gross contribution(membership fee) last year was £18bn..we got back 5 (we don't actually send it) making our net contribution £13bn...do the sums... We don't actually send them £350M a week if you want to be pedantic about it... but that is the cost of membership before the rebate. The lie was the inference where the 350 m was going (if you talking to me Perc) The rebate is not fixed. The EU are well within their rights to demand the full 18 billion, which would take are weekly payments to the EU 350 million. It was more of a bent truth than a lie. One of my grievances would be the fact we sent 13 billion to the EU and they sent us 4.5 billion back and someone in the middle is making a fortune through administration costs and it is classed as EU funding. Why not send 8.5 billion, and all the research projects and other things the 4.5 billion goes on comes straight from us and cuts out the middle man who is raking in money for passing money back and forth. Then we can say it's british funded instead of EU funded as it was our money in the first place. So when people moan about losing EU funding, tell them fuck off.
|
|
|
Post by PerCyfilth ....Captains Log on Nov 9, 2016 9:58:49 GMT
Our gross contribution(membership fee) last year was £18bn..we got back 5 (we don't actually send it) making our net contribution £13bn...do the sums... We don't actually send them £350M a week if you want to be pedantic about it... but that is the cost of membership before the rebate. The lie was the inference where the 350 m was going (if you talking to me Perc) Depends how you look at it... the bus said We send £350million to the EU every week Lets use it to fund our NHS. It doesn't say we will spend that whole £350m on the NHS but it can be used to Fund the NHS. So if you used £150m from it..its being used to fund the NHS. I never thought or a second that the whole lot was going there or those saying it were actually in a position to do it.
|
|
|
Post by Deleted on Nov 9, 2016 10:02:53 GMT
The lie was the inference where the 350 m was going (if you talking to me Perc) Depends how you look at it... the bus said We send £350million to the EU every week Lets use it to fund our NHS. It doesn't say we will spend that whole £350m on the NHS but it can be used to Fund the NHS. So if you used £150m from it..its being used to fund the NHS. I never thought or a second that the whole lot was going there or those saying it were actually in a position to do it. Do we actually send the full 18 billion 1st though and then they send the rebate back. I can't see the fat cats missing an opportunity like that.
|
|
|
Post by Northy on Nov 9, 2016 10:03:06 GMT
Given the subject matter I propose a game of:-
ROUNDHEAD or CAVALIER?
Roundhead for me.
New Model Army all the way any reason for a listen to Elvis
|
|
|
Post by sheikhmomo on Nov 9, 2016 10:03:28 GMT
The lie was the inference where the 350 m was going (if you talking to me Perc) The rebate is not fixed. The EU are well within their rights to demand the full 18 billion, which would take are weekly payments to the EU 350 million. It was more of a bent truth than a lie. One of my grievances would be the fact we sent 13 billion to the EU and they sent us 4.5 billion back and someone in the middle is making a fortune through administration costs and it is classed as EU funding. Why not send 8.5 billion, and all the research projects and other things the 4.5 billion goes on comes straight from us and cuts out the middle man who is raking in money for passing money back and forth. Then we can say it's british funded instead of EU funded as it was our money in the first place. So when people moan about losing EU funding, tell them fuck off. It wasn't a bent truth it was a blatant and calculated lie and everyone associated with the vote leave campaign, Gove, Johnson, IDS and Stewart from Labour are not fit for public office.
|
|