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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Oct 14, 2016 15:19:56 GMT
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Post by nott1 on Oct 14, 2016 15:51:58 GMT
Good idea, let's get back to the dark ages and put our flat caps on and pass the Woodbines!
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Post by jimigoodwinsbeard on Oct 14, 2016 19:05:18 GMT
Good idea, let's get back to the dark ages and put our flat caps on and pass the Woodbines! Its not going back to the dark ages is it though? You are standing in a season tkt number/row like sitting, a barrier in front to lean on, it would only be 2-3000 max probably at most grounds. I would be changing my season tkt seat to stand up tomorrow if it came in. |
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Post by redandwhitetundra on Oct 15, 2016 6:29:51 GMT
Someone may be able to answer this for me.
Whilst standing is currently illegal, would it be illegal for the club to install rail seating provided it remained seating-only until a legislation change..?
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Post by Deleted on Oct 15, 2016 6:39:28 GMT
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the lower part of Dortmund's famous South Stand actually old school terracing?
Good article btw and it's nice that a lot of the Hillsborough families are starting to change their stance. I have the utmost sympathy however with all those who remain adamantly against standing even though I 100% disagree with them from a logical point of view.
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Post by Gods on Oct 15, 2016 7:00:39 GMT
Good idea, let's get back to the dark ages and put our flat caps on and pass the Woodbines! It's about choice isn't it? You'd still be able to park your posterior somewhere. I don't get how one size fits all is somehow deemed as progress. |
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Post by rawli on Oct 15, 2016 7:24:52 GMT
Someone may be able to answer this for me. Whilst standing is currently illegal, would it be illegal for the club to install rail seating provided it remained seating-only until a legislation change..? Seems the most sensible approach we could take. Current arrangements are a farce. If you go away you're more or less forced to stand in areas that aren't designed for standing. |
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Post by lordb on Oct 15, 2016 7:48:26 GMT
Someone may be able to answer this for me. Whilst standing is currently illegal, would it be illegal for the club to install rail seating provided it remained seating-only until a legislation change..? You can install terraces if you want providing no one stands on it. |
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Post by lordb on Oct 15, 2016 7:52:52 GMT
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the lower part of Dortmund's famous South Stand actually old school terracing? Good article btw and it's nice that a lot of the Hillsborough families are starting to change their stance. I have the utmost sympathy however with all those who remain adamantly against standing even though I 100% disagree with them from a logical point of view. Hamburgs terracing appeared to be standard terracing. Terraces killed no body, non-existent crowd management,fences (especially) pens,over crowding,appalling safety culture and in some cases hooligans have been responsible for crowd deaths at football world wide. |
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Post by wagsastokie on Oct 15, 2016 8:01:18 GMT
Good idea, let's get back to the dark ages and put our flat caps on and pass the Woodbines! You forgot to mention that other brands are available Last week I went with two of my sons to warch Peterborough Utd in the paint trophy or whatever it's called I stood in the home end great atmosphere plenty of banter We put up with a drum for about twenty minutes and guess what we just moved further along and problem solved If this had been a Stoke game the chances of us getting three tickets together is nill To me being able to be with my sons and mates at a match is a much wished for future And just for the record there were plenty of women and children who chose to stand and as someone who is registered disabled I personally find it far less painful to stand up than sit something I am denied the right to do at present |
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Oct 15, 2016 8:11:33 GMT
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the lower part of Dortmund's famous South Stand actually old school terracing? Good article btw and it's nice that a lot of the Hillsborough families are starting to change their stance. I have the utmost sympathy however with all those who remain adamantly against standing even though I 100% disagree with them from a logical point of view. That's right. They install seating on the front part for European games ( which must be a time consuming and expensive exercise). Back section is rail seating. |
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Oct 15, 2016 8:25:37 GMT
Someone may be able to answer this for me. Whilst standing is currently illegal, would it be illegal for the club to install rail seating provided it remained seating-only until a legislation change..? It's a very interesting legal area ( at least for sad anoraks like me  ). The answer to your specific question is that it wouldn't be illegal provided it complied with the Green Guide when in seating mode. In fact, it's not even that, because the Green Guide is, as its name implies, only a guide, not the law. It would be a matter for the local licensing authority, Stoke City Council, although in practice they are unlikely to licence anything which doesn't comply with the guide. The even more interesting question is, what is the legal status of rail seats which could be used in standing mode if they were installed under the current law ? DCMS have expressed the view that they would only be legal if the seats were locked down, a view which hasn't been tested at law. But, of course, the plastic bucket seats we have now are not locked down. Every week in grounds all over the country you have thousands of fans standing in front of bucket seats with the seat in a vertical position. The only difference from rail seats is that the latter are safer because they have a bar in front, not a low seat back. The DCMS position not only lacks common sense but is legally inconsistent in my view. |
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Post by Gods on Oct 15, 2016 10:40:18 GMT
Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the lower part of Dortmund's famous South Stand actually old school terracing? Good article btw and it's nice that a lot of the Hillsborough families are starting to change their stance. I have the utmost sympathy however with all those who remain adamantly against standing even though I 100% disagree with them from a logical point of view. Hamburgs terracing appeared to be standard terracing. Terraces killed no body, non-existent crowd management,fences (especially) pens,over crowding,appalling safety culture and in some cases hooligans have been responsible for crowd deaths at football world wide. I agree with that, there is nothing inherently dangerous about human beings standing up, I try to drag myself to the vertical more than once a day if I can! An entirely sedentary nation is not a good thing, we have an obesity crisis right, people should be encouraged to get their sorry ass in to gear not made to park it on a cheap and nasty plastic chair. |
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Post by marrer on Oct 15, 2016 10:49:03 GMT
Good idea, let's get back to the dark ages and put our flat caps on and pass the Woodbines! Where do you like to sit Nott? |
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Post by marrer on Oct 15, 2016 10:52:16 GMT
Hamburgs terracing appeared to be standard terracing. Terraces killed no body, non-existent crowd management,fences (especially) pens,over crowding,appalling safety culture and in some cases hooligans have been responsible for crowd deaths at football world wide. I agree with that, there is nothing inherently dangerous about human beings standing up, I try to drag myself to the vertical more than once a day if I can! There is good progress and bad progress, an entirely sedentary nation is not a good thing, we have an obesity crisis right, people should be encouraged to get there ass in to gear not made to park it on a plastic seat. Tons of medical evidence out now Gods to show that we are slowly killing ourselves and our health is deteriorating because we spend far too long sitting down. |
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Oct 15, 2016 20:10:13 GMT
I agree with that, there is nothing inherently dangerous about human beings standing up, I try to drag myself to the vertical more than once a day if I can! There is good progress and bad progress, an entirely sedentary nation is not a good thing, we have an obesity crisis right, people should be encouraged to get there ass in to gear not made to park it on a plastic seat. Tons of medical evidence out now Gods to show that we are slowly killing ourselves and our health is deteriorating because we spend far too long sitting down. That's an argument we haven't so far used  |
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Post by wembley4372 on Oct 15, 2016 20:26:31 GMT
All positions are ruined by the desire for rail seats which is just pointless and stupid. You either stand or sit, if it's stand you want standing to be safe. Standing in seating areas will never be safe.
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Post by Malcolm Clarke on Oct 15, 2016 21:04:51 GMT
All positions are ruined by the desire for rail seats which is just pointless and stupid. You either stand or sit, if it's stand you want standing to be safe. Standing in seating areas will never be safe. Well if it's pointless and stupid, wembley, there's a lot of stupid people around, me included. Just four points. First, for so long as UEFA regulations ( which obviously we'd like to change ) require all-seater stadia for any european game, no club which thinks there is any possibility at all of playing in a european competition in the lifetime of a new stand is going to invest in a 'traditional' standing area. Second, with regard to your assertion that standing in seated areas will never be safe, you would need to define what you mean by 'safe' and let us see the evidence. In fact, in reality there is no safe/not safe dichotomy because it's a continuum and the only completely safe ground is an empty one. There is some degree of risk everywhere. It is always a question of doing an evidence-based risk assessment. Not surprisingly, the evidence from Germany and elsewhere is that standing in a rail seated area which has a metal barrier on each row of seats which is much higher than the back of plastic bucket seats has fewer injuries that standing behind 'ordinary' seats, or even than sitting in seated areas where fans still stand, and always will do, at moments of excitement, e.g when a goal is scored. Third, in reality of course, only very rarely does anyone actually sit in a rail seat. Those areas are occupied by those who wish to stand. You can visualise them as just like a traditional terrace except that they have ( to use old language) a crush barrier on every row. Fourth, you are right that in that strict logical sense rail seats are unnecessary. We could meet all required safety standards by having traditional standing and seated areas, just as they still do at many grounds below the Championship. But because of UEFA regulations, and politicians nervousness on this topic, rail seats seem the best option for getting proper standing areas in the forseebale future. |
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Post by stick7 on Oct 15, 2016 21:40:00 GMT
I'm hoping that safe standing gets the green light soon in England and Wales but i'm not holding my breath. Surely the government can't keep ignoring the the obvious facts that standing in seated areas is not very safe and this is happening week in week out in all grounds around the country.Also it's not fair on the people how want stay seated but are forced to stand up, particularly at away matches. A fair percentage of footy fans will always want to stand, me included,so we should be given the choice back that we deserve.This would not be going back to the dark ages with the old style terraces as suggested earlier but something so much safer but at least letting us stand and not obstructing the seat brigade. I read recently that quite a few Premier League and Football League clubs were sending representatives up to Celtic to look at there new Safe standing section and how it works so i'm hoping that Stoke will also be going up to check it out. Just imagine say the bottom half of the Boothen End with a standing area and the other half seats so then every ones happy.Think away fans should definitely have the choice to stand or indeed sit as well.Fingers crossed common sense will prevail soon and the legislation will change.
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Post by Gods on Oct 15, 2016 23:33:59 GMT
Tons of medical evidence out now Gods to show that we are slowly killing ourselves and our health is deteriorating because we spend far too long sitting down. That's an argument we haven't so far used Go for it Malcolm, tap in to the big themes going on in the world The obesity crisis is right up there with the rise and rise of China, global terrorism and human cloning! Get someone to work out how many calories you expend watching a football match standing up and jumping around versus sitting down! |
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Post by Gods on Oct 15, 2016 23:45:33 GMT
I'm hoping that safe standing gets the green light soon in England and Wales but i'm not holding my breath. Surely the government can't keep ignoring the the obvious facts that standing in seated areas is not very safe and this is happening week in week out in all grounds around the country.Also it's not fair on the people how want stay seated but are forced to stand up, particularly at away matches. A fair percentage of footy fans will always want to stand, me included,so we should be given the choice back that we deserve.This would not be going back to the dark ages with the old style terraces as suggested earlier but something so much safer but at least letting us stand and not obstructing the seat brigade. I read recently that quite a few Premier League and Football League clubs were sending representatives up to Celtic to look at there new Safe standing section and how it works so i'm hoping that Stoke will also be going up to check it out. Just imagine say the bottom half of the Boothen End with a standing area and the other half seats so then every ones happy.Think away fans should definitely have the choice to stand or indeed sit as well.Fingers crossed common sense will prevail soon and the legislation will change. I do think that when and until standing is offered as an alternative it is nigh on impossible for stewards to insist people sit down it seated areas. Once it is available the conversation changes from 'sit down because I say so' which never works to 'if you want to stand in future go in the standing area' at the drop of a hat they have half a chance! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2016 15:12:20 GMT
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Post by Cast no shadow on Nov 11, 2016 15:24:31 GMT
Our new corner should be safe standing
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2016 15:36:05 GMT
Our new corner should be safe standing the new one being built next summer? or a 'new' new one by the boothen? 'new' new one for me! |
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Post by Cast no shadow on Nov 11, 2016 15:50:35 GMT
Our new corner should be safe standing the new one being built next summer? or a 'new' new one by the boothen? 'new' new one for me! I never knew that we were having a new new i thought it was just new, news to me. Preferably 80% of stadium though 20% for those who want to sit (or whatever the ratio is) |
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Post by bathstoke on Nov 17, 2016 7:37:45 GMT
Just on R4 talking about standing areas in footie grounds. V good Malcom, didn't know that standing in grounds was only against policy or did I hear you wrong...
PS Not a whif of a Stoke accent!
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Post by Northy on Nov 17, 2016 7:43:26 GMT
he was on radio 2 about an hour ago, the radio whore  |
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Post by greyman on Nov 17, 2016 7:54:05 GMT
Malcolm is erudite, influential and informed. That's probably why he goes incognito at games, walking around in a big coat carrying an old plastic bag like somebody who's only there because he's won a competition.
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Post by bathstoke on Nov 17, 2016 7:56:57 GMT
That's probably why he goes games, walking around in a big coat carrying an old plastic bag Sorry!?! |
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Post by Deleted on Nov 17, 2016 7:58:09 GMT
Just on R4 talking about standing areas in footie grounds. V good Malcom, didn't know that standing in grounds was only against policy or did I hear you wrong... PS Not a whif of a Stoke accent! Maybe it was Girth Crooks |
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). The answer to your specific question is that it wouldn't be illegal provided it complied with the Green Guide when in seating mode. In fact, it's not even that, because the Green Guide is, as its name implies, only a guide, not the law. It would be a matter for the local licensing authority, Stoke City Council, although in practice they are unlikely to licence anything which doesn't comply with the guide. 
