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Post by stokeharry on Jul 26, 2015 9:28:30 GMT
The Labour Party needed to have a full and frank debate about what it wants to be BEFORE any leadership campaign. Does it want to be a Party outside the tent pissing in? (protest) Does it want power? The general consensus of belief aided and abetted by Blair/Mandelson/Kendall etc etc etc and the Right Wing Press is that "You cannot win elections from the Left" Really? Tell the SNP A genuine Left Wing Party like Clement Atlees has been in Office so there are precedents. But times have changed and the majority of people are now less and less dependent on the State and more aspirational. Labour need to meet those aspirations. Jeremy Corbyn is not the man to do this. But neither are Kendall..Burnham or Cooper. Aspiration is not enough the Labour Party also needs to have a genuine heart and soul and the only candidate to have these qualities is Corbyn. In other words...we're fucked :-( You have hit the nail on the "............thumb" as opposed to the head . You make the comparison about the SNP and the Labour Party . The scots are a very proud and loyal people who stand by their man . Milliband was seen for what he is .....a weak pathetic excuse of a man with not guts or charisma . A man who like many more in the party would have continued to alienate the party from the Middle ground of British politics . The SNP was seen as a party that would best represent Scottish interests and led by a young feisty leader , the likes of which we have never seen before , apart from perhaps Margaret Thatcher. That's where the Labour Party is floundering . It does not have anyone who can bolster the rough edges . The British people need to have their faith restored .... the British public want ..... 1. A Labour Party led by a man of distinction ....not some fucker with a beard , flat cap and a jack Russell ..... 2 . A party that will concentrate on the economy and not the NHS . The British public already appreciates that it is safer in Labours hands than the Tories. 3 . Immigration .....No more ...No thanks ...or we'll fuck off to UKIP . It doesn't matter if it is historically Tory ....stopping mass immigration is more important . 4 . Let's stop talking shit about "the right wing media" ....huddy , Billy no mates , starkiller - where is planet earth? No fucker buys newspapers anymore. They watch the BBC or ITV . Both report the news as accurately as possible . Some get their information on line . The end . 5 . Stop living your lives in the 'hard left 'early 1970's . Hard left like Corbyn means defeat . 6. Don't cut your nose off to spite your faces ....Because you All do it on a regular basis. 7 . You have to enter the race ..to win it . Putting COrbyn in the blocks at the next general election is akin to trying to swim the channel with a bag of cement strapped to your back. The the bottom line is the party is unelectable , detested and untrustworthy . It can talk about these things as much as it likes , but it will make no difference . Not until it appreciates and addresses the above will it win anything . There are no prizes for coming second . www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11762773/Ive-lived-under-Jeremy-Corbyns-rule-it-turned-me-into-a-Tory.htmlExcellent post . Best post on this thread by far Thumbs up |
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Post by stokeharry on Jul 26, 2015 9:30:57 GMT
I still use the term "Working Class"when trying to discuss politics, but I wonder what value it has anymore. It causes problems for those of us who were born into the working class but can be considered/judged/perceived to have moved class. This is particularly so if we "always remember our roots" , still have their hearts in those who struggle and hope for improvement for them. It causes problems for those who intellectually talk from a " socialist " platform. Most of my working class friends are Sun and Mirror readers not the Guardian. Many are Islamaphobic, sexist, homophobic, racist , politically incorrect and don't hide it. Many are proud to be British, proud of our history and don't suffer post-colonial, white guilt. They are not actively interested in politics, politicians themseves are seen as hypocrites and untrustworthy. Not all of course. They just get on with it. It causes problems for the Labour party who are looking for a cause,trying to represent a non cohesive group. Many of the " working class" don't work. Welfare is either a lifestyle choice, exploited to the maximum, or their only "choice" in which they are trapped. The Guardian tried to define the Working Class. www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-1257,00.html We have other strong minority groups ,in terms of numbers , such as Muslims or assertiveness , such as the gay rights movement. These are the groups which Socialists/the Labour party attempts to represent , but they don't necessarily see themselves as working class. As you say Mumf, some of the Labour party are still fighting the battles of the 70s. I largely work with 18 -25 year olds, wonder what the concepts mean to them and wonder what they will be thinking in 10 years time quote author="@mumf" source="/post/4788242/thread" timestamp="1437897696"] The Labour Party needed to have a full and frank debate about what it wants to be BEFORE any leadership campaign. Does it want to be a Party outside the tent pissing in? (protest) Does it want power? The general consensus of belief aided and abetted by Blair/Mandelson/Kendall etc etc etc and the Right Wing Press is that "You cannot win elections from the Left" Really? Tell the SNP A genuine Left Wing Party like Clement Atlees has been in Office so there are precedents. But times have changed and the majority of people are now less and less dependent on the State and more aspirational. Labour need to meet those aspirations. Jeremy Corbyn is not the man to do this. But neither are Kendall..Burnham or Cooper. Aspiration is not enough the Labour Party also needs to have a genuine heart and soul and the only candidate to have these qualities is Corbyn. In other words...we're fucked :-( You have hit the nail on the "............thumb" as opposed to the head . You make the comparison about the SNP and the Labour Party . The scots are a very proud and loyal people who stand by their man . Milliband was seen for what he is .....a weak pathetic excuse of a man with not guts or charisma . A man who like many more in the party would have continued to alienate the party from the Middle ground of British politics . The SNP was seen as a party that would best represent Scottish interests and led by a young feisty leader , the likes of which we have never seen before , apart from perhaps Margaret Thatcher. That's where the Labour Party is floundering . It does not have anyone who can bolster the rough edges . The British people need to have their faith restored .... the British public want ..... 1. A Labour Party led by a man of distinction ....not some fucker with a beard , flat cap and a jack Russell ..... 2 . A party that will concentrate on the economy and not the NHS . The British public already appreciates that it is safer in Labours hands than the Tories. 3 . Immigration .....No more ...No thanks ...or we'll fuck off to UKIP . It doesn't matter if it is historically Tory ....stopping mass immigration is more important . 4 . Let's stop talking shit about "the right wing media" ....huddy , Billy no mates , starkiller - where is planet earth? No fucker buys newspapers anymore. They watch the BBC or ITV . Both report the news as accurately as possible . Some get their information on line . The end . 5 . Stop living your lives in the 'hard left 'early 1970's . Hard left like Corbyn means defeat . 6. Don't cut your nose off to spite your faces ....Because you All do it on a regular basis. 7 . You have to enter the race ..to win it . Putting COrbyn in the blocks at the next general election is akin to trying to swim the channel with a bag of cement strapped to your back. The the bottom line is the party is unelectable , detested and untrustworthy . It can talk about these things as much as it likes , but it will make no difference . Not until it appreciates and addresses the above will it win anything . There are no prizes for coming second . Mumf, you clearly deeply care about this country and its people, particularly those that struggle and the disadvantaged.You are absolutely correct about labels. It is easy to label someone as on the left, because of a different way of thinking, and then presume that they don't care. Caring is not the preserve of the Left. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11762773/Ive-lived-under-Jeremy-Corbyns-rule-it-turned-me-into-a-Tory.html[/quote] Spot on. (Real talk) |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 26, 2015 10:43:47 GMT
There is a fair chance that the Leadership election will be suspended due to the influx of new members to the party (from the left, and to a lesser extent the right) who back Corbyn. A get out clause for those who oppose him. You could argue that the Corbyn effect has been a good thing, attracting and mobilising supporters who actually believe in the policies....but of course this will not suit the old guard who see their control and jobs under threat.And to think that Corbyn was only involved as a concession, not to be taken seriously but to simply widen the debate.
If the Labour party cannot be trusted not to cock their own affairs up, not many will see them as being capable of running the country.
(How quickly could they get David Milliband elected, through a bye election?
Does the leader have to be an MP?)
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Post by crapslinger on Jul 26, 2015 12:43:28 GMT
There is a fair chance that the Leadership election will be suspended due to the influx of new members to the party (from the left, and to a lesser extent the right) who back Corbyn. A get out clause for those who oppose him. You could argue that the Corbyn effect has been a good thing, attracting and mobilising supporters who actually believe in the policies....but of course this will not suit the old guard who see their control and jobs under threat.And to think that Corbyn was only involved as a concession, not to be taken seriously but to simply widen the debate. If the Labour party cannot be trusted not to cock their own affairs up, not many will see them as being capable of running the country. (How quickly could they get David Milliband elected, through a bye election? Does the leader have to be an MP?) Spot on John, the Unions chose the wrong Milliband to suit there own agenda, they saw Ed as easier to manipulate therefore they ended up with the weaker brother, the unions have a lot to answer for in the last election blaming the press etc is a smokescreen, the sooner they distance themselves from union influences the quicker they will become a viable option to the electorate. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 26, 2015 13:02:21 GMT
But Carps ,is the correct Milliband really a dilute Tory? I don't know, but I guess at least he would be electable, which would mean power, as Mumf has said, so at least something could be achieved to satisfy some in the party....but where would that leave those further on the left?
The damage may already have been done, since many from the left have now joined the party on the back of Corbyn's momentum, and may assert some power in opposition to the career politicians.
It's a shambles!
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Post by stokeharry on Jul 26, 2015 13:13:48 GMT
But Carps ,is the correct Milliband really a dilute Tory? I don't know, but I guess at least he would be electable, which would mean power, as Mumf has said, so at least something could be achieved to satisfy some in the party....but where would that leave those further on the left? The damage may already have been done, since many from the left have now joined the party on the back of Corbyn's momentum, and may assert some power in opposition to the career politicians. It's a shambles! Thankfully most Brits won't vote for an anti Israeli, pinko , Fenian fantasist like Corbyn www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11754303/Jeremy-Corbyn-sips-coffee-with-comrades-Gerry-Adams-and-Martin-McGuiness-in-Parliament.html |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2015 13:39:30 GMT
But Carps ,is the correct Milliband really a dilute Tory? I don't know, but I guess at least he would be electable, which would mean power, as Mumf has said, so at least something could be achieved to satisfy some in the party....but where would that leave those further on the left? The damage may already have been done, since many from the left have now joined the party on the back of Corbyn's momentum, and may assert some power in opposition to the career politicians. It's a shambles! Thankfully most Brits won't vote for an anti Israeli, pinko , Fenian fantasist like Corbyn www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11754303/Jeremy-Corbyn-sips-coffee-with-comrades-Gerry-Adams-and-Martin-McGuiness-in-Parliament.htmlTo be fair we had all this shit raking and turd finding from the media etc when ukip were gaining speed......they're trying with snp now and it also seems now corbyn. It's all a bit to comfy for my liking......good luck to snp, corbyn and ukip ......although they'll not be allowed to get too far that's for sure |
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Post by stokeharry on Jul 26, 2015 13:55:09 GMT
To be fair we had all this shit raking and turd finding from the media etc when ukip were gaining speed......they're trying with snp now and it also seems now corbyn. It's all a bit to comfy for my liking......good luck to snp, corbyn and ukip ......although they'll not be allowed to get too far that's for sure Exactly mate. The lefty simpletons on here are quick to throw mud at UKIP to suit their agenda so it's only right that they get it back. |
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Post by kbillyh on Jul 26, 2015 15:08:25 GMT
Imagine Arsenal fans getting worried over Stoke City and our inability to bring in big name signings over the Summer....... Like really concerned, shouting from the rooftops because they'd hate to see us relegated.
Then compare it to this thread. Shit loads of right wingers clambering over themselves to offer their advice and wisdom over the Labour leadership. Repeating every possible negative aspect of a candidates whole life, slapping each others back at every snipe made, right down to him even having the audacity to have a grey beard, i mean...the shame of it!
Nah, somethings blatantly shitting you lot up about Corbyn. Destroy the man before the message gets across. That's the establishments plan, and like silly little shit fan sheep, some of you lot can't wait to jump the train. How very dare a politician show compassion and have empathy for the people who vote for him, what a bizarre concept.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2015 15:16:03 GMT
Imagine Arsenal fans getting worried over Stoke City and our inability to bring in big name signings over the Summer....... Like really concerned, shouting from the rooftops because they'd hate to see us relegated. Then compare it to this thread. Shit loads of right wingers clambering over themselves to offer their advice and wisdom over the Labour leadership. Repeating every possible negative aspect of a candidates whole life, slapping each others back at every snipe made, right down to him even having the audacity to have a grey beard, i mean...the shame of it! Nah, somethings blatantly shitting you lot up about Corbyn. Destroy the man before the message gets across. That's the establishments plan, and like silly little shit fan sheep, some of you lot can't wait to jump the train. How very dare a politician show compassion and have empathy for the people who vote for him, what a bizarre concept. I think it's called winning an election . Try googling it . |
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Post by harryburrows on Jul 26, 2015 15:18:47 GMT
Imagine Arsenal fans getting worried over Stoke City and our inability to bring in big name signings over the Summer....... Like really concerned, shouting from the rooftops because they'd hate to see us relegated. Then compare it to this thread. Shit loads of right wingers clambering over themselves to offer their advice and wisdom over the Labour leadership. Repeating every possible negative aspect of a candidates whole life, slapping each others back at every snipe made, right down to him even having the audacity to have a grey beard, i mean...the shame of it! Nah, somethings blatantly shitting you lot up about Corbyn. Destroy the man before the message gets across. That's the establishments plan, and like silly little shit fan sheep, some of you lot can't wait to jump the train. How very dare a politician show compassion and have empathy for the people who vote for him, what a bizarre concept. Like you ,huddy , momo and the rest don't offer your opinions on the conservative government . Of course everyone is entitled to an opinion I'm sure there are inaccuracies being spouted about Corbyn as there were about all politicians . All the left seem to care about Cameron and Osborn is where they were educated , not whether they can do the job . How pathetic is that |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2015 15:23:22 GMT
Imagine Arsenal fans getting worried over Stoke City and our inability to bring in big name signings over the Summer....... Like really concerned, shouting from the rooftops because they'd hate to see us relegated. Then compare it to this thread. Shit loads of right wingers clambering over themselves to offer their advice and wisdom over the Labour leadership. Repeating every possible negative aspect of a candidates whole life, slapping each others back at every snipe made, right down to him even having the audacity to have a grey beard, i mean...the shame of it! Nah, somethings blatantly shitting you lot up about Corbyn. Destroy the man before the message gets across. That's the establishments plan, and like silly little shit fan sheep, some of you lot can't wait to jump the train. How very dare a politician show compassion and have empathy for the people who vote for him, what a bizarre concept. Like you ,huddy , momo and the rest don't offer your opinions on the conservative government . Of course everyone is entitled to an opinion I'm sure there are inaccuracies being spouted about Corbyn as there were about all politicians . All the left seem to care about Cameron and Osborn is where they were educated , not whether they can do the job . How pathetic is that It's all about their ideology preferences over that which is best for the party in general . Nothing else matters to them . Donkey jackets , CND and Doc Martens boots rule ! |
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Post by harryburrows on Jul 26, 2015 15:27:21 GMT
Like you ,huddy , momo and the rest don't offer your opinions on the conservative government . Of course everyone is entitled to an opinion I'm sure there are inaccuracies being spouted about Corbyn as there were about all politicians . All the left seem to care about Cameron and Osborn is where they were educated , not whether they can do the job . How pathetic is that It's all about their ideology preferences over that which is best for the party in general . Nothing else matters to them . Donkey jackets , CND and Doc Martens boots rule ! And quietly giving their kids a private education |
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Post by kbillyh on Jul 26, 2015 15:31:10 GMT
Imagine Arsenal fans getting worried over Stoke City and our inability to bring in big name signings over the Summer....... Like really concerned, shouting from the rooftops because they'd hate to see us relegated. Then compare it to this thread. Shit loads of right wingers clambering over themselves to offer their advice and wisdom over the Labour leadership. Repeating every possible negative aspect of a candidates whole life, slapping each others back at every snipe made, right down to him even having the audacity to have a grey beard, i mean...the shame of it! Nah, somethings blatantly shitting you lot up about Corbyn. Destroy the man before the message gets across. That's the establishments plan, and like silly little shit fan sheep, some of you lot can't wait to jump the train. How very dare a politician show compassion and have empathy for the people who vote for him, what a bizarre concept. Like you ,huddy , momo and the rest don't offer your opinions on the conservative government . Of course everyone is entitled to an opinion I'm sure there are inaccuracies being spouted about Corbyn as there were about all politicians . All the left seem to care about Cameron and Osborn is where they were educated , not whether they can do the job . How pathetic is that Inaccuracies, nah.........really? This is a fucking witch hunt of SNP proportions going on as well you know. This is WMD's in Corbyns pants stuff. "all the left seem to care about".........enough said there mate, basic assumptions used to justify nonsense. |
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Post by kbillyh on Jul 26, 2015 15:33:05 GMT
Like you ,huddy , momo and the rest don't offer your opinions on the conservative government . Of course everyone is entitled to an opinion I'm sure there are inaccuracies being spouted about Corbyn as there were about all politicians . All the left seem to care about Cameron and Osborn is where they were educated , not whether they can do the job . How pathetic is that It's all about their ideology preferences over that which is best for the party in general . Nothing else matters to them . Donkey jackets , CND and Doc Martens boots rule ! As per. Just nothing. Nothing. Nothing said, no point Mumf blah blah blah blah. |
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Post by kbillyh on Jul 26, 2015 15:34:32 GMT
It's all about their ideology preferences over that which is best for the party in general . Nothing else matters to them . Donkey jackets , CND and Doc Martens boots rule ! And quietly giving their kids a private education Assumption |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 26, 2015 15:35:39 GMT
The Labour Leadership is a concern of the whole electorate Anyone might vote for them in the future. An unrestrained, unopposed Tory party could be brutal, in a second term.
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Post by harryburrows on Jul 26, 2015 15:36:36 GMT
And quietly giving their kids a private education Assumption Well documented mate |
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Post by harryburrows on Jul 26, 2015 15:37:06 GMT
The Labour Leadership is a concern of the whole electorate Anyone might vote for them in the future. An unrestrained, unopposed Tory party could be brutal, in a second term. Exactly |
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Post by kbillyh on Jul 26, 2015 15:39:51 GMT
The Labour Leadership is a concern of the whole electorate Anyone might vote for them in the future. An unrestrained, unopposed Tory party could be brutal, in a second term. Like they aren't now, like Labour as Tory light will oppose them? Like they could even reach to those being hit by this unrestrained Tory reign? |
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Post by kbillyh on Jul 26, 2015 15:40:22 GMT
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Post by kbillyh on Jul 26, 2015 15:41:23 GMT
The Labour Leadership is a concern of the whole electorate Anyone might vote for them in the future. An unrestrained, unopposed Tory party could be brutal, in a second term. Exactly Backslapping. |
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Post by harryburrows on Jul 26, 2015 15:47:54 GMT
Not Corbyn , Harriet harmon , Diane abbot , Ruth Kelly , tony Blair etc |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 26, 2015 15:49:54 GMT
The Labour Leadership is a concern of the whole electorate Anyone might vote for them in the future. An unrestrained, unopposed Tory party could be brutal, in a second term. Like they aren't now, like Labour as Tory light will oppose them? Like they could even reach to those being hit by this unrestrained Tory reign? True to a degree Billy, I just think it could get much, much worse, particularly if there is no effective opposition , and at the moment I don't think there will be I think the Chancellor has asked most budget/portfolio holders to prepare for cuts of up to 40 %, and this is just the start. One major issue for me is the lack of genuine hope for young people. Seriously what do you see as the way forward for Labour and the country? |
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Post by kbillyh on Jul 26, 2015 15:50:03 GMT
Not Corbyn , Harriet harmon , Diane abbot , Ruth Kelly , tony Blair etc Tory light in the main then. So not well documented on the subject matter i put before you then. No. |
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Post by stokeharry on Jul 26, 2015 15:51:50 GMT
Imagine Arsenal fans getting worried over Stoke City and our inability to bring in big name signings over the Summer....... Like really concerned, shouting from the rooftops because they'd hate to see us relegated. Then compare it to this thread. Shit loads of right wingers clambering over themselves to offer their advice and wisdom over the Labour leadership. Repeating every possible negative aspect of a candidates whole life, slapping each others back at every snipe made, right down to him even having the audacity to have a grey beard, i mean...the shame of it! Nah, somethings blatantly shitting you lot up about Corbyn. Destroy the man before the message gets across. That's the establishments plan, and like silly little shit fan sheep, some of you lot can't wait to jump the train. How very dare a politician show compassion and have empathy for the people who vote for him, what a bizarre concept. Like you ,huddy , momo and the rest don't offer your opinions on the conservative government . Of course everyone is entitled to an opinion I'm sure there are inaccuracies being spouted about Corbyn as there were about all politicians . All the left seem to care about Cameron and Osborn is where they were educated , not whether they can do the job . How pathetic is that I'd be happy to see corbyn as Labour leader. It would be the final nail in the coffin of that treacherous party. The left are more concerned with a man's wealth and where he was educated as opposed to his ability to govern. Jelousy is a bitch |
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Post by harryburrows on Jul 26, 2015 15:54:42 GMT
Not Corbyn , Harriet harmon , Diane abbot , Ruth Kelly , tony Blair etc Tory light in the main then. So not well documented on the subject matter i put before you then. No. Sorry I don't understand what you're getting at |
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Post by stokeharry on Jul 26, 2015 15:58:54 GMT
Not Corbyn , Harriet harmon , Diane abbot , Ruth Kelly , tony Blair etc Hypocrites the lot of them. To be expected when you consider their mind set. |
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Post by britsabroad on Jul 26, 2015 16:00:45 GMT
Tory light in the main then. So not well documented on the subject matter i put before you then. No. Sorry I don't understand what you're getting at I very much doubt he does either  |
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Post by crapslinger on Jul 26, 2015 16:01:12 GMT
Not Corbyn , Harriet harmon , Diane abbot , Ruth Kelly , tony Blair etc Tory light in the main then. So not well documented on the subject matter i put before you then. No. Diane Abott is a Tory light does that explain her racist views. |
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