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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jun 9, 2015 5:06:15 GMT
The Labour party seem to me like a private corporate organisation who have completely lost their place in the market . They seem to have an obsolete product, and are now floundering to come up with something/anything which the public will buy. They seem that they will back anything, within reason as long as they become commercially successful. Seems like they are trying to sell vinyl records in the digital age, some people believe that the sound quality was better, but those days will never return. To return to anything near to Blair's approach, well they may as well become a slightly moderated Tory party. Or, poles apart , is Corbyn the way to go?. I don't say this with any pleasure, but I just cannot see where they go from here. Any suggestions about what would work for them?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2015 8:13:20 GMT
The government we have now is new labour but with a hint of real prudence .......and labour are fucked because people have memories
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jun 9, 2015 8:39:19 GMT
I hope Corbyn gets enough nominations. We might have a proper debate then.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2015 8:51:27 GMT
You make a very assessment of the situation there Bigjohn .....
Unless you have the product that people want then they will go elsewhere . The left wing policies and politics will sit on the shelf like a carton of unbleached tripe in Sainsburys supermarket . Some of the leading candidates are but a sideways move from Ed Milliband in my view. Many of the Labour parties supporters are very blinkered in this respect . You can be successful if you get a more middle or centre right leader of the right calibre...
If they don't , then they will lose . It's as simple as that.
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Post by Skankmonkey on Jun 9, 2015 8:53:55 GMT
The Labour party seem to me like a private corporate organisation who have completely lost their place in the market . They seem to have an obsolete product, and are now floundering to come up with something/anything which the public will buy. They seem that they will back anything, within reason as long as they become commercially successful. Seems like they are trying to sell vinyl records in the digital age, some people believe that the sound quality was better, but those days will never return. To return to anything near to Blair's approach, well they may as well become a slightly moderated Tory party. Or, poles apart , is Corbyn the way to go?. I don't say this with any pleasure, but I just cannot see where they go from here. Any suggestions about what would work for them? Politicians are merely salesmen now. They will sell you a dream so you vote for them, they then fail and you get chance to vote in the next lot. There is an endless supply. Consider the immediate post war period. The Americans cut off financial support to us the very day after the Japanese surrender. The country was next to bankrupt. And yet in the face of that, the Labour government that succeeded Churchill set about rebuilding the country for the future. The NHS, welfare state, massive housebuilding projects, the nationalisation of failing and decrepit industries in the national interest. Many mistakes were made such as, attempting to keep the empire as a captive market for British goods, a naive belief that Britain was still a major world player - much money was wasted chasing that particular dream - besides which, the U.S. had other plans for us. They and Churchill are deserving of the title "politician". People with a vision and the bravery and intelligence to pursue it in the face of all odds; not the latest crop of spivs and failed used car salesman in sharp suits.
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Post by Skankmonkey on Jun 9, 2015 8:57:17 GMT
... no offence to used car salesmen, failed or otherwise...
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jun 9, 2015 15:45:51 GMT
At least some of the candidates gave a straight answer, whether it is the correct one is anyone's guess. Labour leadership hustings at GMB conference in Dublin - Politics live gu.com/p/49j42?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy to clipboard
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Post by Gods on Jun 9, 2015 17:22:05 GMT
I think Labour need to have some policies which appeal to people beyond those directly affected by the welfare cuts, some ideas which play to folks aspirations.
An old school tax and spend merchant like Jeremy Corbyn is great fun but he sure as shit won't get them elected.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2015 17:32:51 GMT
I hope Corbyn gets enough nominations. We might have a proper debate then. He's a modern day Denis Skinner. Extreme left winger, stands no chance. It's Burnham's.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jun 9, 2015 18:20:43 GMT
I hope Corbyn gets enough nominations. We might have a proper debate then. He's a modern day Denis Skinner. Extreme left winger, stands no chance. It's Burnham's. He has now chance of winning of course but he offers an alternative view which will add to the debate and more importantly add a splash of colour to the beige Tory Lite Blair tribute acts currently in the running.
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Post by kbillyh on Jun 9, 2015 18:31:02 GMT
A debate eh? That's the last thing in the World that the string pullers want to happen.
Labour will just elect another Tory light candidate with nothing new to challenge the current status quo.
The SNP stood on a policy of anti austerity but lets not let this fact enter the so called debate, best pretend that was nothing to do with their success.
Same old "choice" for the electorate.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jun 9, 2015 19:08:07 GMT
I think Labour need to have some policies which appeal to people beyond those directly affected by the welfare cuts, some ideas which play to folks aspirations. An old school tax and spend merchant like Jeremy Corbyn is great fun but he sure as shit won't get them elected. There are alternatives to Austerity but the Bullingdon Boys ably assisted by The Labour Party have convinced everyone that there is no choice. Corbyn standing might open a few peoples eyes about alternatives and the real affects of Austerity.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 9, 2015 19:13:56 GMT
He's a modern day Denis Skinner. Extreme left winger, stands no chance. It's Burnham's. He has now chance of winning of course but he offers an alternative view which will add to the debate and more importantly add a splash of colour to the beige Tory Lite Blair tribute acts currently in the running. I wondered if that was what you meant, yes I agree with that for sure.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 9, 2015 19:23:10 GMT
Corbyn is a fine MP and a deeply principled man. He has my support, not sure if he'll get the 35 nominations needed.
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Post by harryburrows on Jun 9, 2015 19:27:12 GMT
I think Labour need to have some policies which appeal to people beyond those directly affected by the welfare cuts, some ideas which play to folks aspirations. An old school tax and spend merchant like Jeremy Corbyn is great fun but he sure as shit won't get them elected. There are alternatives to Austerity but the Bullingdon Boys ably assisted by The Labour Party have convinced everyone that there is no choice. Corbyn standing might open a few peoples eyes about alternatives and the real affects of Austerity. Austerity is another name for living within your means , labour always seem to have the easy alternatives when they are in opposition . If it isn't tackled head on and soon it will become an overwhelming problem for our kids generation
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Post by kbillyh on Jun 9, 2015 19:34:43 GMT
Austerity is a con.
Or should i say the need for it is.
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Post by edgepotter on Jun 9, 2015 19:54:13 GMT
Corbyn is a fine MP and a deeply principled man. He has my support, not sure if he'll get the 35 nominations needed. Corbyn is the one I'd like to see be leader.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 9, 2015 20:03:17 GMT
Corbyn is a fine MP and a deeply principled man. He has my support, not sure if he'll get the 35 nominations needed. Corbyn is the one I'd like to see be leader. As would I...the only one who is clearly different from the rest who contributed to 2 election defeats.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 9, 2015 20:04:26 GMT
There are alternatives to Austerity but the Bullingdon Boys ably assisted by The Labour Party have convinced everyone that there is no choice. Corbyn standing might open a few peoples eyes about alternatives and the real affects of Austerity. Austerity is another name for living within your means , labour always seem to have the easy alternatives when they are in opposition . If it isn't tackled head on and soon it will become an overwhelming problem for our kids generation Austerity is a lie...and a whopping one at that.
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Post by lordb on Jun 9, 2015 20:31:45 GMT
The Labour party seem to me like a private corporate organisation who have completely lost their place in the market . They seem to have an obsolete product, and are now floundering to come up with something/anything which the public will buy. They seem that they will back anything, within reason as long as they become commercially successful. Seems like they are trying to sell vinyl records in the digital age, some people believe that the sound quality was better, but those days will never return. To return to anything near to Blair's approach, well they may as well become a slightly moderated Tory party. Or, poles apart , is Corbyn the way to go?. I don't say this with any pleasure, but I just cannot see where they go from here. Any suggestions about what would work for them? Politicians are merely salesmen now. They will sell you a dream so you vote for them, they then fail and you get chance to vote in the next lot. There is an endless supply. Consider the immediate post war period. The Americans cut off financial support to us the very day after the Japanese surrender. The country was next to bankrupt. And yet in the face of that, the Labour government that succeeded Churchill set about rebuilding the country for the future. The NHS, welfare state, massive housebuilding projects, the nationalisation of failing and decrepit industries in the national interest. Many mistakes were made such as, attempting to keep the empire as a captive market for British goods, a naive belief that Britain was still a major world player - much money was wasted chasing that particular dream - besides which, the U.S. had other plans for us. They and Churchill are deserving of the title "politician". People with a vision and the bravery and intelligence to pursue it in the face of all odds; not the latest crop of spivs and failed used car salesman in sharp suits. Churchill was a shocking politician. Saved the nation in 1940 -anyone else in that cabinet would have given into to Hitler - otherwise he was spectacularly wring about almost everything.
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Post by harryburrows on Jun 9, 2015 20:45:12 GMT
Austerity is another name for living within your means , labour always seem to have the easy alternatives when they are in opposition . If it isn't tackled head on and soon it will become an overwhelming problem for our kids generation Austerity is a lie...and a whopping one at that. How so ? Just leave the agenda alone if possible
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Post by Skankmonkey on Jun 9, 2015 21:00:01 GMT
Politicians are merely salesmen now. They will sell you a dream so you vote for them, they then fail and you get chance to vote in the next lot. There is an endless supply. Consider the immediate post war period. The Americans cut off financial support to us the very day after the Japanese surrender. The country was next to bankrupt. And yet in the face of that, the Labour government that succeeded Churchill set about rebuilding the country for the future. The NHS, welfare state, massive housebuilding projects, the nationalisation of failing and decrepit industries in the national interest. Many mistakes were made such as, attempting to keep the empire as a captive market for British goods, a naive belief that Britain was still a major world player - much money was wasted chasing that particular dream - besides which, the U.S. had other plans for us. They and Churchill are deserving of the title "politician". People with a vision and the bravery and intelligence to pursue it in the face of all odds; not the latest crop of spivs and failed used car salesman in sharp suits. Churchill was a shocking politician. Saved the nation in 1940 -anyone else in that cabinet would have given into to Hitler - otherwise he was spectacularly wring about almost everything. Correct, I included him for his war leadership. I think that trumps his deficiencies. Militarily he was an enthusiastic amateur meddler and mostly wrong but to his credit he recognised that, and after Montgomery was installed he largely eased off micro managing and telling his generals what to do. Luckily for us, Adolf never did the same. No friend to the working class either. Point taken. I may be wrong but I believe he was pelted with eggs at Leek at one time in his earlier career. And his record for using the police and military to quell industrial unrest speaks for itself. Just his war leadership then. Just re-read that a couple of times. I'm thankful anyway. He remains a good example of the courage and vision I''m describing.
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Post by crapslinger on Jun 9, 2015 21:02:21 GMT
He's a modern day Denis Skinner. Extreme left winger, stands no chance. It's Burnham's. He has now chance of winning of course but he offers an alternative view which will add to the debate and more importantly add a splash of colour to the beige Tory Lite Blair tribute acts currently in the running. Why not go the whole hog and get Diane Abbott to stand, now she would bring a splash of colour to the contest.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 9, 2015 21:04:48 GMT
Austerity is a lie...and a whopping one at that. How so ? Just leave the agenda alone if possible Happy to Harry, it wasn't me that raised it.
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Post by Skankmonkey on Jun 9, 2015 21:09:41 GMT
Austerity is a lie...and a whopping one at that. How so ? Just leave the agenda alone if possible Pay the debt off by growing the economy and increasing tax revenues. I've posted the economic argument for this on the Scottish Independance thread but I'm not clever enough to work out how to post a link. Make of that what you will... No agenda here. Just reason.
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Post by sheikhmomo on Jun 9, 2015 21:09:46 GMT
He has now chance of winning of course but he offers an alternative view which will add to the debate and more importantly add a splash of colour to the beige Tory Lite Blair tribute acts currently in the running. Why not go the whole hog and get Diane Abbott to stand, now she would bring a splash of colour to the contest. She stood in the last leadership election. She got 8%.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 9, 2015 21:18:36 GMT
Why not go the whole hog and get Diane Abbott to stand, now she would bring a splash of colour to the contest. She stood in the last leadership election. She got 8%. You forget, he struggles with his maths.
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jun 9, 2015 21:19:15 GMT
How so ? Just leave the agenda alone if possible Pay the debt off by growing the economy and increasing tax revenues. I've posted the economic argument for this on the Scottish Independance thread but I'm not clever enough to work out how to post a link. Make of that what you will... No agenda here. Just reason. And by aggressive action on corporate tax avoidance too.
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Post by crapslinger on Jun 9, 2015 21:48:52 GMT
Why not go the whole hog and get Diane Abbott to stand, now she would bring a splash of colour to the contest. She stood in the last leadership election. She got 8%. didn't she do well a massive 8% end of term report would make interesting reading, wonder what the resident ex teacher would have made of that , still she can take succour in the fact that she is a fantastic mother not so sure where the father fits into the relationship mind, maybe he was white hence her hatred of white people in general.
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Post by crapslinger on Jun 9, 2015 21:57:51 GMT
Corbyn is a fine MP and a deeply principled man. He has my support, not sure if he'll get the 35 nominations needed. Huddy , I think that he has got them Not sure he can count that far to be honest, it really is no surprise that he is an ex school teacher, the last thing we need is a teacher preaching left wing propaganda to impressionable young adults probably best for all concerned that he relinquished his post
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