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Post by britsabroad on Jul 24, 2015 16:36:09 GMT
There are plenty of Labour supporters suggesting that Corbyn leading the party would be a backwards step but what I'm slighltly baffled by is why the right are now getting stuck into him as well, surely they'd want someone they think has no chance of getting elected to be the leader of the opposition? Because the opposition must be credible and competent enough to work with the ruling party on some things. Corbyn is just an idealistic fool who would try to block things through spite and lack of understanding. |
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Post by kbillyh on Jul 24, 2015 18:57:23 GMT
There are plenty of Labour supporters suggesting that Corbyn leading the party would be a backwards step but what I'm slighltly baffled by is why the right are now getting stuck into him as well, surely they'd want someone they think has no chance of getting elected to be the leader of the opposition? Because the opposition must be credible and competent enough to work with the ruling party on some things. Corbyn is just an idealistic fool who would try to block things through spite and lack of understanding. The logic? hahahaha Shit fan on the Oatcake gifting us some wonderful insights. Cheers mate.  Reckon you're the expert on "spite and understanding" eh.  |
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Post by kbillyh on Jul 24, 2015 19:03:29 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2015 20:38:01 GMT
There are plenty of Labour supporters suggesting that Corbyn leading the party would be a backwards step but what I'm slighltly baffled by is why the right are now getting stuck into him as well, surely they'd want someone they think has no chance of getting elected to be the leader of the opposition? Because the opposition must be credible and competent enough to work with the ruling party on some things. Corbyn is just an idealistic fool who would try to block things through spite and lack of understanding. both parties want to keep things just the way they are.... to get free piggy back rides on our shoulders while shitting down our necks. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2015 21:12:07 GMT
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Post by harryburrows on Jul 24, 2015 21:23:43 GMT
Call it inverted snobbery if you wish , but it is somewhat pleasantly rewarding to know what a massive impact I have had on 'Billy no mates ' sad pathetic life ....   People that don't understand satire really shouldn't bother reading it |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2015 21:32:55 GMT
Call it inverted snobbery if you wish , but it is somewhat pleasantly rewarding to know what a massive impact I have had on 'Billy no mates ' sad pathetic life .... People that don't understand satire really shouldn't bother reading it many people don't understand it Harry ....they think that they do ....but the evidence to the contrary is there to see |
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Post by harryburrows on Jul 24, 2015 21:35:52 GMT
People that don't understand satire really shouldn't bother reading it many people don't understand it Harry ....they think that they do ....but the evidence to the contrary is there to see As you say |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 24, 2015 21:37:23 GMT
many people don't understand it Harry ....they think that they do ....but the evidence to the contrary is there to see As you say Indeed mate.  |
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Post by crapslinger on Jul 24, 2015 21:37:39 GMT
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Post by britsabroad on Jul 25, 2015 2:52:04 GMT
Because the opposition must be credible and competent enough to work with the ruling party on some things. Corbyn is just an idealistic fool who would try to block things through spite and lack of understanding. The logic? hahahaha Shit fan on the Oatcake gifting us some wonderful insights. Cheers mate. Reckon you're the expert on "spite and understanding" eh. You're letting the image slip mate |
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Post by stokeharry on Jul 25, 2015 11:18:39 GMT
There are plenty of Labour supporters suggesting that Corbyn leading the party would be a backwards step but what I'm slighltly baffled by is why the right are now getting stuck into him as well, surely they'd want someone they think has no chance of getting elected to be the leader of the opposition? Because the opposition must be credible and competent enough to work with the ruling party on some things. Corbyn is just an idealistic fool who would try to block things through spite and lack of understanding. Correct Common sense and logic is lacking on here though mate so I think you'll find your real talk will be missed my some :/ |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jul 25, 2015 22:04:49 GMT
Wrong. Completely and utterly wrong. That's rich coming from the person who's famously managed to get everything completely fucking wrong with regards to politics and the economy since day one. You're the barometer for measuring absolute shit. Your comment is proof that Jeremy Corbyn hasn't a chance. Not one. Well as you're the barometer for the greedy money grabbing self centered Tories on here, we know where you stand. |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jul 25, 2015 22:06:57 GMT
Wrong. Completely and utterly wrong. On this occassion he is absolutely right. The comparison made elsewhere with the 80s is very apt. Labour face a pivotal moment in their history. Do they want to be a party of Government of a party of protest. I get the feeling you're satisfied with protest. There is no comparison really. Just another invention of the right wing press that some people believe. |
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Post by harryburrows on Jul 25, 2015 22:16:01 GMT
On this occassion he is absolutely right. The comparison made elsewhere with the 80s is very apt. Labour face a pivotal moment in their history. Do they want to be a party of Government of a party of protest. I get the feeling you're satisfied with protest. There is no comparison really. Just another invention of the right wing press that some people believe. Why is it everyone who doesn't like socialism is automatically labeled right wing , lots of voters who occupy the centre ground politically would not want a socialist government it looks like the left don't seem to think they are out of step with popular opinion , |
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Jul 25, 2015 22:17:26 GMT
The Labour Party needed to have a full and frank debate about what it wants to be BEFORE any leadership campaign.
Does it want to be a Party outside the tent pissing in? (protest)
Does it want power?
The general consensus of belief aided and abetted by Blair/Mandelson/Kendall etc etc etc and the Right Wing Press is that "You cannot win elections from the Left"
Really?
Tell the SNP
A genuine Left Wing Party like Clement Atlees has been in Office so there are precedents.
But times have changed and the majority of people are now less and less dependent on the State and more aspirational.
Labour need to meet those aspirations.
Jeremy Corbyn is not the man to do this.
But neither are Kendall..Burnham or Cooper.
Aspiration is not enough the Labour Party also needs to have a genuine heart and soul and the only candidate to have these qualities is Corbyn.
In other words...we're fucked :-(
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jul 25, 2015 22:43:23 GMT
There is no comparison really. Just another invention of the right wing press that some people believe. Why is it everyone who doesn't like socialism is automatically labeled right wing , lots of voters who occupy the centre ground politically would not want a socialist government it looks like the left don't seem to think they are out of step with popular opinion , You could argue the reverse for the label "left wing" It would appear that Corbyn has become very popular with potential voters, see my earlier post. It's about right and wrong and for me, he's right on most things. Your argument that a centre ground voters may be true but the failure of Labour to offer any resistance or alternative to austerity has cost them dearly in the sense that it has lost them around 5 million working class votes. |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jul 25, 2015 22:44:42 GMT
The Labour Party needed to have a full and frank debate about what it wants to be BEFORE any leadership campaign. Does it want to be a Party outside the tent pissing in? (protest) Does it want power? The general consensus of belief aided and abetted by Blair/Mandelson/Kendall etc etc etc and the Right Wing Press is that "You cannot win elections from the Left" Really? Tell the SNP A genuine Left Wing Party like Clement Atlees has been in Office so there are precedents. But times have changed and the majority of people are now less and less dependent on the State and more aspirational. Labour need to meet those aspirations. Jeremy Corbyn is not the man to do this. But neither are Kendall..Burnham or Cooper. Aspiration is not enough the Labour Party also needs to have a genuine heart and soul and the only candidate to have these qualities is Corbyn. In other words...we're fucked :-( I think Corbyn is the right man for the job, you can be aspirational and socialist surely? |
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Post by JoeinOz on Jul 25, 2015 22:51:48 GMT
Labour have tried to get in by being the tories lite and it didn't work. They might as well stand for something and see how that goes.
If they lose it will be blamed on those values. They lost in 2015 when they adopted the tory mindset.
Remember...... the SNP success wasn't just patriotism.
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Post by harryburrows on Jul 25, 2015 22:52:29 GMT
Why is it everyone who doesn't like socialism is automatically labeled right wing , lots of voters who occupy the centre ground politically would not want a socialist government it looks like the left don't seem to think they are out of step with popular opinion , You could argue the reverse for the label "left wing" It would appear that Corbyn has become very popular with potential voters, see my earlier post. It's about right and wrong and for me, he's right on most things. Your argument that a centre ground voters may be true but the failure of Labour to offer any resistance or alternative to austerity has cost them dearly in the sense that it has lost them around 5 million working class votes. That argument just doesn't make sense , the 5 million voters who didn't want austerity chose it anyway , knowing the cuts were coming after the election . It was crystal clear that a labour government wouldn't have imposed these cuts . |
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Post by harryburrows on Jul 25, 2015 23:04:40 GMT
The Labour Party needed to have a full and frank debate about what it wants to be BEFORE any leadership campaign. Does it want to be a Party outside the tent pissing in? (protest) Does it want power? The general consensus of belief aided and abetted by Blair/Mandelson/Kendall etc etc etc and the Right Wing Press is that "You cannot win elections from the Left" Really? Tell the SNP A genuine Left Wing Party like Clement Atlees has been in Office so there are precedents. But times have changed and the majority of people are now less and less dependent on the State and more aspirational. Labour need to meet those aspirations. Jeremy Corbyn is not the man to do this. But neither are Kendall..Burnham or Cooper. Aspiration is not enough the Labour Party also needs to have a genuine heart and soul and the only candidate to have these qualities is Corbyn. In other words...we're fucked :-( I think Corbyn is the right man for the job, you can be aspirational and socialist surely? Every voter wants to get behind an aspirational leader of the country . I've got no doubt about corbyns sincerity ,people just don't trust socialists to deliver economic stability .icountries like Greece , Italy , Portugal , Spain have to eventually face the facts. . where did socialism get the people of Greece , with no money to pay pensions or public sector workers wages , or Spain's 50% youth unemployment . As a business model it just doesn't work |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 26, 2015 6:12:21 GMT
[/di
Labour have lost their connection with the working class and I believe that it is fatal. Traditional labour -intensive industry and therefore trade unionism has declined and Labour dont know how to handle it. Instead of concentrating on WORK, genuine job creation and entrepreneurship they have focussed on other issues.
Many of those who vote/support labour do so either because. 1 they have always voted Labour, particularly in Labour strongholds. 2 The only realistic opposition to the Tories, in the the two party/class system. A vote against the tories, rather than for Labour.
There is no passion for or commitment to any of the policies of 3 of the candidates, from within the party nor from the electorate. Just an attempt to secure their own jobs, a PR approach ;they offer nothing radically different from the Tories, no passion.
I could agree with some of Corbyn's policies if he would temper EVERYTHING with a clear commitment of living within our means, not spending what we have not got and having a strategy to reduce the debt.
There are 6 issues with him for me;
If he is elected leader, his own party will not support him, many will be so distant from him that they will have to consider their own position in the party. To accept his leadership would be hypocritical.......He could split the party.
The media will slaughter him because of his image , persona and record on some issues , which whatever the truth or value in what he did, will be seen as unpalatable, eg actually talking to groups like Hamas.
Because of the above he will never lead Labour to power, for the reasons others have said....unless the austerity in a second term does get so bad that it forces a reaction from the electorate and we get in a Greek scenario.
I don't believe that he will have any presence, Kudos or influence on the world stage.
He will have difficulty dealing with the issue of uncontrolled immigration and the culture clash with Islam, which is perceived as an issue by the working class, amongst others. Even to acknowedge that it is an issue is a problem
His position on the EU is causing him a crisis of conscience, in my opinion. He is waiting to see what Cameron comes up with and what the actual question of the referendum is, before commiting himself, which is fine. Being a Bennite his heart is on leaving, but even he as a conviction politician may shy away from this.
I hope he wins the leadership because at least it will shake up politics
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 26, 2015 6:22:45 GMT
On this occassion he is absolutely right. The comparison made elsewhere with the 80s is very apt. Labour face a pivotal moment in their history. Do they want to be a party of Government of a party of protest. I get the feeling you're satisfied with protest. There is no comparison really. Just another invention of the right wing press that some people believe. It woud seem a fair chunk of the Parliamentary Labour Party believe as well - those not sitting towards the far left at least. In that there is another parallel to the early '80. The split in the Labour party the election of Michael Foot precipitated. Labour, on this occassion, don't need a right wing press to fuck them over. They're doing it all by themselves. Of course the right wing press are thoroughly enjoying the spectacle and will milk it for all it's worth. But this isn't their invention. The Tories are pissing themselves. As are the SNP. Labour is in danger of becoming a joke party. Out of power for a generation unless they get their act together. |
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 26, 2015 6:39:15 GMT
Labour have tried to get in by being the tories lite and it didn't work. They might as well stand for something and see how that goes. If they lose it will be blamed on those values. They lost in 2015 when they adopted the tory mindset. Remember...... the SNP success wasn't just patriotism. Labour wore the Tories clothes in every election Blair won. And they were tight fitting clothes at that. The SNP success in Scotland was based on a number of factors including retaining the votes of the "45" and pulling in plenty of disaffected Labour voters by "wearing" labour's clothes. Don't be fooled by thinking though that the SNP is a far left party. The Tartan Tory wing still holds considerable influence - arguably they are why the party has governed so competently in recent years, although that dynamic could well be shifting as the membership has shifted hard to the left since the referendum. Add to that Labour has been in disarray for years up here, the "Thatcher" effect that still punishes the Tories, the general malaise of the Lib Dems and the absence of UKIP you can see why the SNP is so dominant. I guess the point, as regards the Labour Party leadership election is concerned, is be careful about the lessons to be learned from their epic failure in Scotland. I'd argue don't be drawn into thinking it's about where you are positioned on the right / left wing scale; think more about competence. Scots are a pragmatic lot after all! |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2015 6:40:58 GMT
[/di
Labour have lost their connection with the working class and I believe that it is fatal. Traditional labour intensive industry and therefore trade unionism has declined and Labour dont know how to handle it. Instead of concentrating on WORK, genuine job creation and entrepreneurship they have focussed on other issues.
Many of those who vote/support labour do so either because. 1 they have always voted Labour, particularly in Labour strongholds. 2 The only realistic opposition to the Tories, in the the two party/class system. A vote against the tories, rather than for Labour.
There is no passion for or commitment to any of the policies of 3 of the candidates, from within the party nor from the electorate. Just an attempt to secure their own jobs, a PR approach ;they offernothing radically diffeent from the Tories, no passion.
I could agree with some of Jerym's policies if he would temper EVERYTHING with a clear commitment of living within our means, not spending what we have not got and having a strategy to reduce the debt.
There are 5 issues with him for me;
If he is elected leader, his own party will not support him, many will be so distant from him that they will have to consider their own position in the party. To accept his leadership would be hypocritical.......He could split the party.
The media will slaughter him because of his image , persona and record on some issues , which whatever the truth or value in what he did, will be seen as unpalatable, eg actually talking to groups like Hamas.
Because of the above he will never lead Labour to power, for the reasons others have said....unless the austerity in a second term does get so bad that it forces a reaction from the electorate and we get in a Greek scenario.
He will have difficulty dealing with the issue of uncontrolled immigration and the culture clash with Islam, which is perceived as an issue by the working class, amongst others. Even to acknowedge that it is an issue is a problem
His position on the EU is causing him a crisis of conscience, in my opinion. He is waiting to see what Cameron comes up with and what the actual question of the referendum is, before commiting himself, which is fine. Being a Bennite is heart is on leaving, but even he as a conviction politician may shy away from this
it is fatal. Traditional labour intensive industry and therefore trade unionism has declined and Labour dont know how to handle it. Instead of concentrating on WORK, genuine job creation and entrepreneurship they have focussed on other issues
Many of those who vote/support labour do so either because. 1 they have always voted Labour, particularly in Labour strongholds. 2 The only realistic opposition to the Tories, in the the two party/class system. A vote against the tories, rather than for Labour.
There is no passion for or commitment to any of the policies of 3 of the candidates, from within the party nor from the electorate. Just an attempt to secure their own jobs, a PR approach ;they offernothing radically diffeent from the Tories, no passion.
I could agree with some of Corbyn's policies if he would temper EVERYTHING with a clear commitment of living within our means, not spending what we have not got and having a strategy to reduce the debt.
There are 6issues with him for me;
If he is elected leader, his own party will not support him, many will be so distant from him that they will have to consider their own position in the party. To accept his leadership would be hypocritical.......He could split the party.
The media will slaughter him because of his image , persona and record on some issues , which whatever the truth or value in what he did, will be seen as unpalatable, eg actually talking to groups like Hamas.
Because of the above he will never lead Labour to power, for the reasons others have said....unless the austerity in a second term does get so bad that it forces a reaction from the electorate and we get in a Greek scenario.
He will have difficulty dealing with the issue of uncontrolled immigration and the culture clash with Islam, which is perceived as an issue by the working class, amongst others. Even to acknowedge that it is an issue is a problem.
I can't imagine him having any presence,kudos or impact on the world stage
His position on the EU is causing him a crisis of conscience, in my opinion. He is waiting to see what Cameron comes up with and what the actual question of the referendum is, before commiting himself, which is fine. Being a Bennite is heart is on leaving, but even Corbyn, as a conviction politician, may shy away from this.
I hope he wins the leadership because at least it will shake up politics
Excellent post . A brilliant post John . Accurate , fair , clear and concise. Not only do you spell out the facts of the situation but also the pitfalls of this election race . Most people on this thread prefer to give their own biased view on it . Their Agenda takes over . You are clearly someone who understands politics and how it works , that is a rare but commendable trait these days . Sadly the vast majority haven't got a clue . Therein lies the problem. Mumf |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2015 8:01:36 GMT
The Labour Party needed to have a full and frank debate about what it wants to be BEFORE any leadership campaign. Does it want to be a Party outside the tent pissing in? (protest) Does it want power? The general consensus of belief aided and abetted by Blair/Mandelson/Kendall etc etc etc and the Right Wing Press is that "You cannot win elections from the Left" Really? Tell the SNP A genuine Left Wing Party like Clement Atlees has been in Office so there are precedents. But times have changed and the majority of people are now less and less dependent on the State and more aspirational. Labour need to meet those aspirations. Jeremy Corbyn is not the man to do this. But neither are Kendall..Burnham or Cooper. Aspiration is not enough the Labour Party also needs to have a genuine heart and soul and the only candidate to have these qualities is Corbyn. In other words...we're fucked :-( You have hit the nail on the "............thumb" as opposed to the head . You make the comparison about the SNP and the Labour Party . The scots are a very proud and loyal people who stand by their man . Milliband was seen for what he is .....a weak pathetic excuse of a man with not guts or charisma . A man who like many more in the party would have continued to alienate the party from the Middle ground of British politics . The SNP was seen as a party that would best represent Scottish interests and led by a young feisty leader , the likes of which we have never seen before , apart from perhaps Margaret Thatcher. That's where the Labour Party is floundering . It does not have anyone who can bolster the rough edges . The British people need to have their faith restored .... the British public want ..... 1. A Labour Party led by a man of distinction ....not some fucker with a beard , flat cap and a jack Russell ..... 2 . A party that will concentrate on the economy and not the NHS . The British public already appreciates that it is safer in Labours hands than the Tories. 3 . Immigration .....No more ...No thanks ...or we'll fuck off to UKIP . It doesn't matter if it is historically Tory ....stopping mass immigration is more important . 4 . Let's stop talking shit about "the right wing media" ....huddy , Billy no mates , starkiller - where is planet earth? No fucker buys newspapers anymore. They watch the BBC or ITV . Both report the news as accurately as possible . Some get their information on line . The end . 5 . Stop living your lives in the 'hard left 'early 1970's . Hard left like Corbyn means defeat . 6. Don't cut your nose off to spite your faces ....Because you All do it on a regular basis. 7 . You have to enter the race ..to win it . Putting COrbyn in the blocks at the next general election is akin to trying to swim the channel with a bag of cement strapped to your back. The the bottom line is the party is unelectable , detested and untrustworthy . It can talk about these things as much as it likes , but it will make no difference . Not until it appreciates and addresses the above will it win anything . There are no prizes for coming second . www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11762773/Ive-lived-under-Jeremy-Corbyns-rule-it-turned-me-into-a-Tory.html |
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Post by harryburrows on Jul 26, 2015 8:18:06 GMT
The Labour Party needed to have a full and frank debate about what it wants to be BEFORE any leadership campaign. Does it want to be a Party outside the tent pissing in? (protest) Does it want power? The general consensus of belief aided and abetted by Blair/Mandelson/Kendall etc etc etc and the Right Wing Press is that "You cannot win elections from the Left" Really? Tell the SNP A genuine Left Wing Party like Clement Atlees has been in Office so there are precedents. But times have changed and the majority of people are now less and less dependent on the State and more aspirational. Labour need to meet those aspirations. Jeremy Corbyn is not the man to do this. But neither are Kendall..Burnham or Cooper. Aspiration is not enough the Labour Party also needs to have a genuine heart and soul and the only candidate to have these qualities is Corbyn. In other words...we're fucked :-( You have hit the nail on the "............thumb" as opposed to the head . You make the comparison about the SNP and the Labour Party . The scots are a very proud and loyal people who stand by their man . Milliband was seen for what he is .....a weak pathetic excuse of a man with not guts or charisma . A man who like many more in the party would have continued to alienate the party from the Middle ground of British politics . The SNP was seen as a party that would best represent Scottish interests and led by a young feisty leader , the likes of which we have never seen before , apart from perhaps Margaret Thatcher. That's where the Labour Party is floundering . It does not have anyone who can bolster the rough edges . The British people need to have their faith restored .... the British public want ..... 1. A Labour Party led by a man of distinction ....not some fucker with a beard , flat cap and a jack Russell ..... 2 . A party that will concentrate on the economy and not the NHS . The British public already appreciates that it is safer in Labours hands than the Tories. 3 . Immigration .....No more ...No thanks ...or we'll fuck off to UKIP . It doesn't matter if it is historically Tory ....stopping mass immigration is more important . 4 . Let's stop talking shit about "the right wing media" ....huddy , Billy no mates , starkiller - where is planet earth? No fucker buys newspapers anymore. They watch the BBC or ITV . Both report the news as accurately as possible . Some get their information on line . The end . 5 . Stop living your lives in the 'hard left 'early 1970's . Hard left like Corbyn means defeat . 6. Don't cut your nose off to spite your faces ....Because you All do it on a regular basis. 7 . You have to enter the race ..to win it . Putting COrbyn in the blocks at the next general election is akin to trying to swim the channel with a bag of cement strapped to your back. The the bottom line is the party is unelectable , detested and untrustworthy . It can talk about these things as much as it likes , but it will make no difference . Not until it appreciates and addresses the above will it win anything . There are no prizes for coming second . Very good , your point about living in the 70s is very true labour still seems to think there is a massive block of traditional support waiting to put a " proper " Labour Party back in power . They seem to ignor the fact that the nature of the working class has fundamentally changed in the past 40 years |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 26, 2015 8:31:22 GMT
I still use the term "Working Class"when trying to discuss politics, but I wonder what value it has anymore. It causes problems for those of us who were born into the working class but can be considered/judged/perceived to have moved class. This is particularly so if we "always remember our roots" , still have their hearts in those who struggle and hope for improvement for them. It causes problems for those who intellectually talk from a " socialist " platform. Most of my working class friends are Sun and Mirror readers not the Guardian. Many are Islamaphobic, sexist, homophobic, racist , politically incorrect and don't hide it. Many are proud to be British, proud of our history and don't suffer post-colonial, white guilt. Not all of courseThey are not actively interested in politics, politicians themseves are seen as hypocrites and untrustworthy. They just get on with it, the best they can.. It causes problems for the Labour party who are looking for a cause,trying to represent a non cohesive group. Many of the " working class" don't work. Welfare is either a lifestyle choice, exploited to the maximum, or their only "choice" in which they are trapped. The Guardian tried to define the Working Class. www.theguardian.com/notesandqueries/query/0,5753,-1257,00.html We have other strong minority groups ,in terms of numbers , such as Muslims or assertiveness , such as the gay rights movement. These are the groups which Socialists/the Labour party attempts to represent , but they don't necessarily see themselves as working class. As you say Mumf, some of the Labour party are still fighting the battles of the 70s. I largely work with 18 -25 year olds, wonder what the concepts mean to them and wonder what they will be thinking in 10 years time quote author="@mumf" source="/post/4788242/thread" timestamp="1437897696"] The Labour Party needed to have a full and frank debate about what it wants to be BEFORE any leadership campaign. Does it want to be a Party outside the tent pissing in? (protest) Does it want power? The general consensus of belief aided and abetted by Blair/Mandelson/Kendall etc etc etc and the Right Wing Press is that "You cannot win elections from the Left" Really? Tell the SNP A genuine Left Wing Party like Clement Atlees has been in Office so there are precedents. But times have changed and the majority of people are now less and less dependent on the State and more aspirational. Labour need to meet those aspirations. Jeremy Corbyn is not the man to do this. But neither are Kendall..Burnham or Cooper. Aspiration is not enough the Labour Party also needs to have a genuine heart and soul and the only candidate to have these qualities is Corbyn. In other words...we're fucked :-( You have hit the nail on the "............thumb" as opposed to the head . You make the comparison about the SNP and the Labour Party . The scots are a very proud and loyal people who stand by their man . Milliband was seen for what he is .....a weak pathetic excuse of a man with not guts or charisma . A man who like many more in the party would have continued to alienate the party from the Middle ground of British politics . The SNP was seen as a party that would best represent Scottish interests and led by a young feisty leader , the likes of which we have never seen before , apart from perhaps Margaret Thatcher. That's where the Labour Party is floundering . It does not have anyone who can bolster the rough edges . The British people need to have their faith restored .... the British public want ..... 1. A Labour Party led by a man of distinction ....not some fucker with a beard , flat cap and a jack Russell ..... 2 . A party that will concentrate on the economy and not the NHS . The British public already appreciates that it is safer in Labours hands than the Tories. 3 . Immigration .....No more ...No thanks ...or we'll fuck off to UKIP . It doesn't matter if it is historically Tory ....stopping mass immigration is more important . 4 . Let's stop talking shit about "the right wing media" ....huddy , Billy no mates , starkiller - where is planet earth? No fucker buys newspapers anymore. They watch the BBC or ITV . Both report the news as accurately as possible . Some get their information on line . The end . 5 . Stop living your lives in the 'hard left 'early 1970's . Hard left like Corbyn means defeat . 6. Don't cut your nose off to spite your faces ....Because you All do it on a regular basis. 7 . You have to enter the race ..to win it . Putting COrbyn in the blocks at the next general election is akin to trying to swim the channel with a bag of cement strapped to your back. The the bottom line is the party is unelectable , detested and untrustworthy . It can talk about these things as much as it likes , but it will make no difference . Not until it appreciates and addresses the above will it win anything . There are no prizes for coming second . Mumf, you clearly deeply care about this country and its people, particularly those that struggle and the disadvantaged.You are absolutely correct about labels. It is easy to label someone as on the left, because of a different way of thinking, and then presume that they don't care. Caring is not the preserve of the Left. www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/labour/11762773/Ive-lived-under-Jeremy-Corbyns-rule-it-turned-me-into-a-Tory.html[/quote] |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2015 8:33:23 GMT
You have hit the nail on the "............thumb" as opposed to the head . You make the comparison about the SNP and the Labour Party . The scots are a very proud and loyal people who stand by their man . Milliband was seen for what he is .....a weak pathetic excuse of a man with not guts or charisma . A man who like many more in the party would have continued to alienate the party from the Middle ground of British politics . The SNP was seen as a party that would best represent Scottish interests and led by a young feisty leader , the likes of which we have never seen before , apart from perhaps Margaret Thatcher. That's where the Labour Party is floundering . It does not have anyone who can bolster the rough edges . The British people need to have their faith restored .... the British public want ..... 1. A Labour Party led by a man of distinction ....not some fucker with a beard , flat cap and a jack Russell ..... 2 . A party that will concentrate on the economy and not the NHS . The British public already appreciates that it is safer in Labours hands than the Tories. 3 . Immigration .....No more ...No thanks ...or we'll fuck off to UKIP . It doesn't matter if it is historically Tory ....stopping mass immigration is more important . 4 . Let's stop talking shit about "the right wing media" ....huddy , Billy no mates , starkiller - where is planet earth? No fucker buys newspapers anymore. They watch the BBC or ITV . Both report the news as accurately as possible . Some get their information on line . The end . 5 . Stop living your lives in the 'hard left 'early 1970's . Hard left like Corbyn means defeat . 6. Don't cut your nose off to spite your faces ....Because you All do it on a regular basis. 7 . You have to enter the race ..to win it . Putting COrbyn in the blocks at the next general election is akin to trying to swim the channel with a bag of cement strapped to your back. The the bottom line is the party is unelectable , detested and untrustworthy . It can talk about these things as much as it likes , but it will make no difference . Not until it appreciates and addresses the above will it win anything . There are no prizes for coming second . Very good , your point about living in the 70s is very true labour still seems to think there is a massive block of traditional support waiting to put a " proper " Labour Party back in power . They seem to ignor the fact that the nature of the working class has fundamentally changed in the past 40 years To be honest Harry ....Given the candidates , and what I have seen so far ,not only has the party not learned from its defeat , but it is has actively gone further down the road to oblivion . I can't believe that anyone in their right mind would ever think Jeremy Corbyn should be allowed anywhere near a leadership contest , but that's where we are at . That's why I know the Labour Party is finished as a credible political mainstream party for many years to come . I am not looking at this from my own personal perspective either ... |
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Post by harryburrows on Jul 26, 2015 8:45:46 GMT
To be honest Harry ....Given the candidates , and what I have seen so far ,not only has the party not learned from its defeat , but it is has actively gone further down the road to oblivion . I can't believe that anyone in their right mind would ever think Jeremy Corbyn should be allowed anywhere near a leadership contest , but that's where we are at . That's why I know the Labour Party is finished as a credible political mainstream party for many years to come . I am not looking at this from my own personal perspective either ... Labour need to reexamine there key policies and send out a clear , modern vision of what the party stands for , Blair recognised this 20 years ago |
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