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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jul 27, 2015 21:47:23 GMT
Billy I am not quite sure what you are particularly annoyed about in my recent thread. As far as I am aware I have been totally consistent in my views , we have to accept that we don't agree. When you say "i suppose these were your thoughts about Labour and Corbyn before the thread was started."....if you visit the OP, which I started, I clearly state taking no great pleasure in the Labour party's downfall BUT I now see no future for it. I could be wrong of course, just opinion. I hope that Corbyn does get elected as Labour leader for 4 reasons: He is different from the other three who have made no impact whatsoever and represent a continuation of the same old thing.He is a sincere, conviction politician unlike the other careerist. His being leader would probably split the party and help to clarify socialism/New Labour/Labour .....given what Labour has become, I think that this would be a good thing.Fourthly, I am interested to see what he says about the EU,as this is the most important issue facing the country since the second world war, and should be the top priority for a Socialist. Having said that, I don't think that he will ever be Prime Minister.You may call that conjecture, I just call it my opinion. Nothing revolutionary in what I say, it is shared by many in the Party and outside I have made it clear on other threads that we need some sort of effective opposition , as this Government is likely to be more brutal. Finally, I always deal with the issues , not the personalities ( I learnt that from Tony Benn) but I must say this : You seem to say that only certain people should post on thus thread ( I'll just remind you that I did start it). Simply I am interested in what is happening politically, particularly with EU issue. The Labour Party has done more for me, my family and my class than any other Party. Arguably the post war Labour Government has been the most influential in history.I was born in a council house in Fegg Hayes, but UNluckily did not know Mumf.My father was a coal miner for 47 years, my mother a school cleaner ( Incidentally my father was a lifelong Labour supporter who always bought the Daily Mail..It had the best Racing pages). I was an active member of the Labour party , trade unionist, the some would say on the left of the party in my youth. Reading between the lines of many of the posters on here, many seem to me to be not avid right wingers, but ex Labour voters, who simply do not see it as a party with direction and a future. Brilliant post. More real talk. As an ex Labour voter who is now staunch UKIP I can 100% say Labour will never get my vote again You won't be missed. |
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Post by stokeharry on Jul 27, 2015 21:55:10 GMT
Brilliant post. More real talk. As an ex Labour voter who is now staunch UKIP I can 100% say Labour will never get my vote again You won't be missed. And nor will you and your treacherous ilk Every vote is important and every vote counts and Labour want my vote and need my vote but after what they did under Blair they can get fucked |
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Post by salopstick on Jul 27, 2015 21:59:29 GMT
im not trying to kid you for starters. I enjoy a challenge But as much fun he will be as leader I would like a credible opposition but there again with the SNP we have one  I agree, they are the closest we have to an opposition now. D Don't try the kiddums with the rest though eh, read you ike a Janet and John mate.  That makes you a child then. Figures |
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Post by salopstick on Jul 27, 2015 22:00:50 GMT
Brilliant post. More real talk. As an ex Labour voter who is now staunch UKIP I can 100% say Labour will never get my vote again You won't be missed. How would you know or has comrade corbyn brought you back in to the fold.  |
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Post by kbillyh on Jul 27, 2015 22:43:30 GMT
I agree, they are the closest we have to an opposition now. D Don't try the kiddums with the rest though eh, read you ike a Janet and John mate. That makes you a child then. Figures Hahahaha. That's it? Genius!! |
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Post by salopstick on Jul 27, 2015 22:58:19 GMT
That makes you a child then. Figures Hahahaha. That's it? Genius!! I'm as serious as cancer when I say rhythm is a dancer |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 28, 2015 6:01:03 GMT
Below are some extracts from the Fabian Society's report on the Labour party's failure as reported in the Guardian ( should really be in the Daily Mail ). Similar to the views of many of the posters on here, but others cannot bring themselves to face up to the issues. Why pertain to represent the working class when you don't actually listen to what they actually say? But rather presume that your views should be their views. "The party had nothing to say on welfare, business creation or immigration, “sounding as if it was on the side of those that don’t work "” “We need to answer concerns about immigration and identity, especially for people attracted by Ukip’s resistance to change. We need to show how we improve the welfare system. We cannot simply defend a status quo that many people think is unfair. We won’t win over hard-working people if we demonise the private sector in which so many people work. We need the humility to listen to the people of the country, as well as our party, to talk about contribution and responsibility as well as equality and fairness.” "they wanted to know what Labour would do about the family down the street on benefits who’d ‘never done an honest day’s work in their life’ " “We need to push further out of our comfort zone and talk about the cultural impact of immigration and the way some communities have changed rapidly over the past few decades.” Labour candidates attack 'predictable and out of touch' election campaign gu.com/p/4b33q?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard |
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Post by kbillyh on Jul 28, 2015 9:09:30 GMT
Below are some extracts from the Fabian Society's report on the Labour party's failure as reported in the Guardian ( should really be in the Daily Mail ). Similar to the views of many of the posters on here, but others cannot bring themselves to face up to the issues. Why pertain to represent the working class when you don't actually listen to what they actually say? But rather presume that your views should be their views. "The party had nothing to say on welfare, business creation or immigration, “sounding as if it was on the side of those that don’t work "” “We need to answer concerns about immigration and identity, especially for people attracted by Ukip’s resistance to change. We need to show how we improve the welfare system. We cannot simply defend a status quo that many people think is unfair. We won’t win over hard-working people if we demonise the private sector in which so many people work. We need the humility to listen to the people of the country, as well as our party, to talk about contribution and responsibility as well as equality and fairness.” "they wanted to know what Labour would do about the family down the street on benefits who’d ‘never done an honest day’s work in their life’ " “We need to push further out of our comfort zone and talk about the cultural impact of immigration and the way some communities have changed rapidly over the past few decades.” Labour candidates attack 'predictable and out of touch' election campaign gu.com/p/4b33q?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboardBJR, it's been a constant theme on this message board that whenever an alternative viewpoint to that of the right is aired it is met by outlandish claims and assumptions like the ones you have highlighted. You can be talking about not taking it for granted that everybody on benefits is a scrounger and you will be instantly pidgeon holed as somebody who thinks it's acceptable to deliberately not work. You can oppose the current viewpoints on Islamaphobia and instantly be classed as a Muslim lover, wanting an open door policy on immigration. Talk about the bad deal the public get on some of the privatisations and you are anti-business, against any form of aspirational policies. All seeds nurtured through the controlled media. The article is pretty much bang on though and a good reflection on an election campaign run by a bunch of nothing men representing nobody with nothing to say. Let's hope the next candidate they choose will be the breath of fresh air they need them to be. |
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Post by stokeharry on Jul 28, 2015 10:31:57 GMT
Below are some extracts from the Fabian Society's report on the Labour party's failure as reported in the Guardian ( should really be in the Daily Mail ). Similar to the views of many of the posters on here, but others cannot bring themselves to face up to the issues. Why pertain to represent the working class when you don't actually listen to what they actually say? But rather presume that your views should be their views. "The party had nothing to say on welfare, business creation or immigration, “sounding as if it was on the side of those that don’t work "” “We need to answer concerns about immigration and identity, especially for people attracted by Ukip’s resistance to change. We need to show how we improve the welfare system. We cannot simply defend a status quo that many people think is unfair. We won’t win over hard-working people if we demonise the private sector in which so many people work. We need the humility to listen to the people of the country, as well as our party, to talk about contribution and responsibility as well as equality and fairness.” "they wanted to know what Labour would do about the family down the street on benefits who’d ‘never done an honest day’s work in their life’ " “We need to push further out of our comfort zone and talk about the cultural impact of immigration and the way some communities have changed rapidly over the past few decades.” Labour candidates attack 'predictable and out of touch' election campaign gu.com/p/4b33q?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboardBJR , it's been a constant theme on this message board that whenever an alternative viewpoint to that of the left is aired it is met with outlandish claims and assumptions. You can talk about immigration and say how an open door policy is not good for Britain and instantly be called a racist , you can discuss the problems within the Muslim community, such as their unwillingness to integrate and the child sex cases highlighted in the recent Rotherham cases and be classed as an Islamophobe . Talk about making your own way in the world and wanting a better life for your kids and having personal aspirations and you're "selfish and anti society" The media is biased and full of shit unless it suits the left wing agenda and then it's gospel and 100% true . Links from the Guardian are to be taken seriously but articles from the Mail are to be ignored , simply because the leftys say so. They are wrong Plenty of people with different points of view on this board and most of the time people might as well be talking to themselves because no one's rants or views or opinions are likely to change anyones mind. Certainly not mine |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 28, 2015 10:46:16 GMT
Below are some extracts from the Fabian Society's report on the Labour party's failure as reported in the Guardian ( should really be in the Daily Mail ). Similar to the views of many of the posters on here, but others cannot bring themselves to face up to the issues. Why pertain to represent the working class when you don't actually listen to what they actually say? But rather presume that your views should be their views. "The party had nothing to say on welfare, business creation or immigration, “sounding as if it was on the side of those that don’t work "” “We need to answer concerns about immigration and identity, especially for people attracted by Ukip’s resistance to change. We need to show how we improve the welfare system. We cannot simply defend a status quo that many people think is unfair. We won’t win over hard-working people if we demonise the private sector in which so many people work. We need the humility to listen to the people of the country, as well as our party, to talk about contribution and responsibility as well as equality and fairness.” "they wanted to know what Labour would do about the family down the street on benefits who’d ‘never done an honest day’s work in their life’ " “We need to push further out of our comfort zone and talk about the cultural impact of immigration and the way some communities have changed rapidly over the past few decades.” Labour candidates attack 'predictable and out of touch' election campaign gu.com/p/4b33q?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboardBJR, it's been a constant theme on this message board that whenever an alternative viewpoint to that of the right is aired it is met by outlandish claims and assumptions like the ones you have highlighted. You can be talking about not taking it for granted that everybody on benefits is a scrounger and you will be instantly pidgeon holed as somebody who thinks it's acceptable to deliberately not work. You can oppose the current viewpoints on Islamaphobia and instantly be classed as a Muslim lover, wanting an open door policy on immigration. Talk about the bad deal the public get on some of the privatisations and you are anti-business, against any form of aspirational policies. All seeds nurtured through the controlled media. The article is pretty much bang on though and a good reflection on an election campaign run by a bunch of nothing men representing nobody with nothing to say. Let's hope the next candidate they choose will be the breath of fresh air they need them to be. Billy You have made this point several times. I don't know what the response is from those on the right that you refer to....its up to them . Personally I don't actually think that they are on the right, they are mainly disillusioned ex Labour supporters. BUT I am not particularly interested in who they are It is the ISSUES which I am interested in .I think that we need to let the rest go .Speaking for myself I have never and will never get involved in the personal stuff. The point about my last post is that it is the views of the Labour party itself. Corbyn was excellent this morning on Woman's Hour ( I own up to listening to it), certainly more effective than the other 3. It will be interesting if becomes leader and I hope he does. Having said that there is a poll which I will post later which says that a lurch to the left will not win the election. |
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Post by mermaidsal on Jul 28, 2015 11:35:29 GMT
Well Corbyn would bring me back to the fold... if anyone can recover from that shock.
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 28, 2015 12:06:26 GMT
Well Corbyn would bring me back to the fold... if anyone can recover from that shock. Sally He would not bring me back, but you never know what happens in Politics. For me , before I look at anything else , he would have to have a clear policy to leave the EU, and then I would look at other issues, including UKIP ' policies, and Leadership. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 28, 2015 12:22:22 GMT
Below are some extracts from the Fabian Society's report on the Labour party's failure as reported in the Guardian ( should really be in the Daily Mail ). Similar to the views of many of the posters on here, but others cannot bring themselves to face up to the issues. Why pertain to represent the working class when you don't actually listen to what they actually say? But rather presume that your views should be their views. "The party had nothing to say on welfare, business creation or immigration, “sounding as if it was on the side of those that don’t work "” “We need to answer concerns about immigration and identity, especially for people attracted by Ukip’s resistance to change. We need to show how we improve the welfare system. We cannot simply defend a status quo that many people think is unfair. We won’t win over hard-working people if we demonise the private sector in which so many people work. We need the humility to listen to the people of the country, as well as our party, to talk about contribution and responsibility as well as equality and fairness.” "they wanted to know what Labour would do about the family down the street on benefits who’d ‘never done an honest day’s work in their life’ " “We need to push further out of our comfort zone and talk about the cultural impact of immigration and the way some communities have changed rapidly over the past few decades.” Labour candidates attack 'predictable and out of touch' election campaign gu.com/p/4b33q?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboardBJR , it's been a constant theme on this message board that whenever an alternative viewpoint to that of the left is aired it is met with outlandish claims and assumptions. You can talk about immigration and say how an open door policy is not good for Britain and instantly be called a racist , you can discuss the problems within the Muslim community, such as their unwillingness to integrate and the child sex cases highlighted in the recent Rotherham cases and be classed as an Islamophobe . Talk about making your own way in the world and wanting a better life for your kids and having personal aspirations and you're "selfish and anti society" The media is biased and full of shit unless it suits the left wing agenda and then it's gospel and 100% true . Links from the Guardian are to be taken seriously but articles from the Mail are to be ignored , simply because the leftys say so. They are wrong Plenty of people with different points of view on this board and most of the time people might as well be talking to themselves because no one's rants or views or opinions are likely to change anyones mind. Certainly not mine Harry I hope as we move on things will change and we will have to talk about these things, not just on the Oatcake, but in the real world. I don't really think that people will change their minds through discussion on here Once people have a view, it tends to become entrenched, defended to the hilt and people get labelled. I suppose that it is more complicated than quick messages on here. Eg I can agree with some of what Corbyn says, but would not vote for him for reasons which have been discussed. I don't hate him. Once we get attributed a label, everything that is associated with the label is transfered to the "name" I guess that is the debate going on now in the Labour party - what does it stand for? |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 28, 2015 13:55:20 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2015 15:27:29 GMT
Well, your link confirms what i have been saying for weeks ! I know its not what the likes of the left want to hear but tough shit ... Im past repeating myself over and over again . It will become a protest party . ......and a fat lot of good that will do. Huddy , billy no mates and momo take heed. I am not the enemy ....you are if you continue to support Corbyn. Idealists achieve nothing ....realists do . Time to wise up for the good of everyone. Mumf |
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Post by kbillyh on Jul 28, 2015 16:02:55 GMT
Of course they are less electable now, they have no leader and half of the spineless fucks couldn't even bring themselves to vote against the recent welfare bill. It's so obvious i'm suprised you posted the link. From your other post it sounds like you are an out and out UKIP voter and you wouldn't change unless they choose to adopt UKIP policies wholesale. Perhaps a bit drastic that, but it sounds like you need look no further than UKIP for your choice to be made. This poll means nothing though, the questions needs to be asked again after new leader is elected and the message they send out has the chance to be heard and it certainly doesn't reflect on the fact Corbyn is in the running as Mumf suggests. As for Mumf's other comments, i'll pass on taking heed from yourself thanks. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2015 16:09:52 GMT
Its akin to feeding your dog on Bakers dog food.
It looks good ,it smells good , but its actually shit dog food .
You'll never hear the dog complain though.
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Post by Biblical on Jul 28, 2015 16:52:45 GMT
Corbyn is gaining massive popularity amongst people that have listened to what the candidates have to say and think that Corbyn best represents their views and I'm one of them.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2015 17:03:03 GMT
Corbyn is gaining massive popularity amongst people that have listened to what the candidates have to say and think that Corbyn best represents their views and I'm one of them. You need to rephrase that comment because it is factually misleading . "Corbyn continues to rely on the support of the far left and unions . As a result the Labour parties appeal continues to diminish " Meanwhile UKIP's support continues to grow . |
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Post by stokeharry on Jul 28, 2015 17:09:05 GMT
BJR , it's been a constant theme on this message board that whenever an alternative viewpoint to that of the left is aired it is met with outlandish claims and assumptions. You can talk about immigration and say how an open door policy is not good for Britain and instantly be called a racist , you can discuss the problems within the Muslim community, such as their unwillingness to integrate and the child sex cases highlighted in the recent Rotherham cases and be classed as an Islamophobe . Talk about making your own way in the world and wanting a better life for your kids and having personal aspirations and you're "selfish and anti society" The media is biased and full of shit unless it suits the left wing agenda and then it's gospel and 100% true . Links from the Guardian are to be taken seriously but articles from the Mail are to be ignored , simply because the leftys say so. They are wrong Plenty of people with different points of view on this board and most of the time people might as well be talking to themselves because no one's rants or views or opinions are likely to change anyones mind. Certainly not mine Harry I hope as we move on things will change and we will have to talk about these things, not just on the Oatcake, but in the real world. I don't really think that people will change their minds through discussion on here Once people have a view, it tends to become entrenched, defended to the hilt and people get labelled. I suppose that it is more complicated than quick messages on here. Eg I can agree with some of what Corbyn says, but would not vote for him for reasons which have been discussed. I don't hate him. Once we get attributed a label, everything that is associated with the label is transfered to the "name" I guess that is the debate going on now in the Labour party - what does it stand for? Agree with everything there mate but the problem is most on here wouldn't know anything about the real world. Too wrapped up in their fantasy bubble and dreams of utopia |
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Post by Biblical on Jul 28, 2015 17:09:11 GMT
Corbyn is gaining massive popularity amongst people that have listened to what the candidates have to say and think that Corbyn best represents their views and I'm one of them. You need to rephrase that comment because it is factually misleading . "Corbyn continues to rely on the support of the far left and unions . As a result the Labour parties appeal continues to diminish " Meanwhile UKIP's support continues to grow . I'd love to know where it's 'factually misleading' You do realise that there are people who aren't unions and the far left that like what he's offering don't you? It's them that I'm referring to. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2015 17:26:38 GMT
You need to rephrase that comment because it is factually misleading . "Corbyn continues to rely on the support of the far left and unions . As a result the Labour parties appeal continues to diminish " Meanwhile UKIP's support continues to grow . I'd love to know where it's 'factually misleading' You do realise that there are people who aren't unions and the far left that like what he's offering don't you? It's them that I'm referring to. I've just explained it to you . His support is from the left . It always was . I haven't heard of any 'blue rinsers' from Home Counties south downing their tweeds in favour of a donkey jacket , Doc Martens boots and obligatory Jack Russell ......unless you know different . On the contrary in fact . Labour support is declining . Is it any wonder Comrade ? www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-less-electable-than-under-ed-miliband-and-needs-radical-rethink-to-regain-power-10420140.html |
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Post by Biblical on Jul 28, 2015 17:40:18 GMT
The winner of the election race will be determined by a democratic vote, if Corbyn wins then that must mean the majority of those that voted are 'left' therefore they've voted in the candidate that best reflects their views and rightly so. Personally speaking I'm not interested in Labour being Tory-lite I want a genuine alternative and Corbyn fits the bill. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2015 18:09:10 GMT
The winner of the election race will be determined by a democratic vote, if Corbyn wins then that must mean the majority of those that voted are 'left' therefore they've voted in the candidate that best reflects their views and rightly so. Personally speaking I'm not interested in Labour being Tory-lite I want a genuine alternative and Corbyn fits the bill. So would you be happy to be in perpetual opposition as a result .? Or ......Do you think some may be swayed by his CND and anti austerity measures ? I'll be absolutely straight with you ....I'll give you my answer . Not in the realms of fantasy ...not even 1% chance ....will Corbyn win anything as party leader . That's the reason why I don't want him ....in a nutshell . |
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Post by kbillyh on Jul 28, 2015 18:22:42 GMT
The winner of the election race will be determined by a democratic vote, if Corbyn wins then that must mean the majority of those that voted are 'left' therefore they've voted in the candidate that best reflects their views and rightly so. Personally speaking I'm not interested in Labour being Tory-lite I want a genuine alternative and Corbyn fits the bill. So would you be happy to be in perpetual opposition as a result .? Or ......Do you think some may be swayed by his CND and anti austerity measures ? I'll be absolutely straight with you ....I'll give you my answer . Not in the realms of fantasy ...not even 1% chance ....will Corbyn win anything as party leader . That's the reason why I don't want him ....in a nutshell . Bullshit. You don't want him in because he isn't UKIP, that's the real reason "in a nutshell". Don't try and pretend it's anything else, like you give a flying genuine concern over who leads the Labour party. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 28, 2015 18:29:26 GMT
Of course they are less electable now, they have no leader and half of the spineless fucks couldn't even bring themselves to vote against the recent welfare bill. It's so obvious i'm suprised you posted the link. From your other post it sounds like you are an out and out UKIP voter and you wouldn't change unless they choose to adopt UKIP policies wholesale. Perhaps a bit drastic that, but it sounds like you need look no further than UKIP for your choice to be made. This poll means nothing though, the questions needs to be asked again after new leader is elected and the message they send out has the chance to be heard and it certainly doesn't reflect on the fact Corbyn is in the running as Mumf suggests. As for Mumf's other comments, i'll pass on taking heed from yourself thanks. lly I simply posted it because it is relevant.The poll is making the point that as things stand people believe that they have become unelectable. As you say, no surprises there. I have consistently said that Corbyn should win and I hope that he does. I Somehow I seem to keep confusing you. I am sorry about that. I honestly don't mean to anger you , just debating the issues, across the political spectrum.There are a multitude of views out there. I certainly do support UKIP . Leaving the EU is the most important Socialist issue at present, and it will be interesting to see where Corbyn eventually stands on it.For clarity ,even if he did support an exit ( and I hope he does) I cannot envisage returning to support Labour, for other reasons. The clip below is from the Morning Star, not the Daily Mail.For some reason I could not post a link, so I have had to copy and paste. Take care Jun 2015 Wednesday 10th posted by Morning Star in Editorial THE government will be spending our money on campaigning to remain in the EU right up to the referendum date, Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond has revealed. Critics in his own party are right to point out that this makes a mockery of the idea of a fair vote. Big business wants to stay in the EU - so the Establishment will use every weapon at its disposal to make sure we make the "right" choice. We've been here before. The 1975 referendum saw an unholy alliance between Labour prime minister Harold Wilson - defying the democratic will of his own party conference - and Tory leader Margaret Thatcher to back a pro-EU vote. The powers that be closed ranks in their eagerness to sign up to a corporate bloc which enshrines privatisation - in the guise of "competition" - and the free movement of capital and labour above the democratic right of individual countries to plan their economies for the common good. The Morning Star was the only national daily to demand an exit from the bosses' club then, and the Morning Star will continue to make the socialist case for leaving in the coming referendum. It was joined by an honourable roll-call of Labour's most principled MPs, including Tony Benn and Michael Foot, while the Yes campaign was bankrolled by the Confederation of British Industry and the City of London. Forty years on, there is less excuse than ever for supporting EU membership. Europe has been subjected to seven years of punitive spending cuts. Brussels diktats have ordered the "restructuring" of economies, causing untold misery as unemployment in southern Europe has soared - hitting a quarter of the adult population at times in the worst-hit countries such as Greece and Spain. A government elected in Athens with an overwhelming mandate to end austerity and halt the fire-sale of public assets is being treated with contempt by the "troika" of the European Union, European Central Bank and International Monetary Fund, who continue to insist on crippling cuts whatever the Greek electorate may want, Yet such is the slavish devotion of the current Labour Party to the EU that Labour leadership contenders Andy Burnham and Liz Kendall were able to tell GMB conference yesterday that they could foresee no circumstances under which Britain would want to leave. This is despite the EU pressing ahead with secretive TTIP negotiations which will further entrench the primacy of corporate power over national institutions. Most of the Labour line-up in Dublin felt obliged to call for various exemptions to this pernicious treaty, although predictably only the always estimable Jeremy Corbyn called for it to be ditched entirely. Burnham campaigned in the run-up to last month's general election for the NHS to be exempted from TTIP, rightly acknowledging that the treaty poses a lethal threat to public services (because it will remove barriers to foreign companies snapping them up, and allow those companies to sue any government that tries to stop them). But the entire EU project poses a threat. EU competition rules stand in the way of renationalising our railways, our postal service and our utilities. Brussels' defenders claim the bloc protects workers' rights through rules such as the Working Time Directive, although Britain already opts out of the clause limiting working hours. But membership of the EU has done nothing to prevent Tory administrations from banning basic rights such as secondary picketing or political strikes. It will do nothing to stop the current government from curbing the right to strike still further. Pleading with an undemocratic outside body to intervene on our behalf with the British government is not going to work - and is unworthy of a labour movement that won us weekends, paid holidays and the minimum wage through its own efforts, not through the kindness of some distant Eurocrat. |
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Post by kbillyh on Jul 28, 2015 18:31:42 GMT
Has anything so ridiculous ever been posted??? Yeah, that Corbyn bloke will never connect with the braces and red laced skinheads so he's got no chance. Perhaps Mumf, just perhaps, he's trying to appeal to a different type of demographic. Imagine that can you? Why i bother to reply to your nonsense is something i'll address at a later date, but that post is, well................ pure Mumf. |
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Post by Biblical on Jul 28, 2015 18:36:35 GMT
The winner of the election race will be determined by a democratic vote, if Corbyn wins then that must mean the majority of those that voted are 'left' therefore they've voted in the candidate that best reflects their views and rightly so. Personally speaking I'm not interested in Labour being Tory-lite I want a genuine alternative and Corbyn fits the bill. So would you be happy to be in perpetual opposition as a result .? Or ......Do you think some may be swayed by his CND and anti austerity measures ? I'll be absolutely straight with you ....I'll give you my answer . Not in the realms of fantasy ...not even 1% chance ....will Corbyn win anything as party leader . That's the reason why I don't want him ....in a nutshell . I don't think it's quite as clear cut as you make out and again I can only speak for myself but if you offered me a) a leader of the party who represents my views even if he's deemed unelectable or b) leader of the party that doesn't represent my views but is deemed electable I'd choose 'a' every time because I don't see the point in supporting something that doesn't represent you just because it's got a better chance of winning. Just like I'm going to continue supporting Stoke even though other clubs have got a better chance of winning the league. The other candidates (and other clubs) don't represent me. |
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Post by kbillyh on Jul 28, 2015 18:41:20 GMT
Of course they are less electable now, they have no leader and half of the spineless fucks couldn't even bring themselves to vote against the recent welfare bill. It's so obvious i'm suprised you posted the link. From your other post it sounds like you are an out and out UKIP voter and you wouldn't change unless they choose to adopt UKIP policies wholesale. Perhaps a bit drastic that, but it sounds like you need look no further than UKIP for your choice to be made. This poll means nothing though, the questions needs to be asked again after new leader is elected and the message they send out has the chance to be heard and it certainly doesn't reflect on the fact Corbyn is in the running as Mumf suggests. As for Mumf's other comments, i'll pass on taking heed from yourself thanks. lly I simply posted it because it is relevant.The poll is making the point that as things stand people believe that they have become unelectable. As you say, no surprises there. I have consistently said that Corbyn should win and I hope that he does. I Somehow I seem to keep confusing you. I am sorry about that. I honestly don't mean to anger you , just debating the issues, across the political spectrum.There are a multitude of views out there. I certainly do support UKIP . Leaving the EU is the most important Socialist issue at present, and it will be interesting to see where Corbyn eventually stands on it.For clarity ,even if he did support an exit ( and I hope he does) I cannot envisage returning to support Labour, for other reasons. The clip below is from the Morning Star, not the Daily Mail.For some reason I could not post a link, so I have had to copy and paste. Take care Jun 2015 Wednesday 10th posted by Morning Star in Editorial THE government will be spending our money on campaigning to remain in the EU right up to the referendum date, Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond has revealed. Critics in his own party are right to point out that this makes a mockery of the idea of a fair vote. Big business wants to stay in the EU - so the Establishment will use every weapon at its disposal to make sure we make the "right" choice. We've been here before. The 1975 referendum saw an unholy alliance between Labour prime minister Harold Wilson - defying the democratic will of his own party conference - and Tory leader Margaret Thatcher to back a pro-EU vote. The powers that be closed ranks in their eagerness to sign up to a corporate bloc which enshrines privatisation - in the guise of "competition" - and the free movement of capital and labour above the democratic right of individual countries to plan their economies for the common good. The Morning Star was the only national daily to demand an exit from the bosses' club then, and the Morning Star will continue to make the socialist case for leaving in the coming referendum. It was joined by an honourable roll-call of Labour's most principled MPs, including Tony Benn and Michael Foot, while the Yes campaign was bankrolled by the Confederation of British Industry and the City of London. Forty years on, there is less excuse than ever for supporting EU membership. Europe has been subjected to seven years of punitive spending cuts. Brussels diktats have ordered the "restructuring" of economies, causing untold misery as unemployment in southern Europe has soared - hitting a quarter of the adult population at times in the worst-hit countries such as Greece and Spain. A government elected in Athens with an overwhelming mandate to end austerity and halt the fire-sale of public assets is being treated with contempt by the "troika" of the European Union, European Central Bank and International Monetary Fund, who continue to insist on crippling cuts whatever the Greek electorate may want, Yet such is the slavish devotion of the current Labour Party to the EU that Labour leadership contenders Andy Burnham and Liz Kendall were able to tell GMB conference yesterday that they could foresee no circumstances under which Britain would want to leave. This is despite the EU pressing ahead with secretive TTIP negotiations which will further entrench the primacy of corporate power over national institutions. Most of the Labour line-up in Dublin felt obliged to call for various exemptions to this pernicious treaty, although predictably only the always estimable Jeremy Corbyn called for it to be ditched entirely. Burnham campaigned in the run-up to last month's general election for the NHS to be exempted from TTIP, rightly acknowledging that the treaty poses a lethal threat to public services (because it will remove barriers to foreign companies snapping them up, and allow those companies to sue any government that tries to stop them). But the entire EU project poses a threat. EU competition rules stand in the way of renationalising our railways, our postal service and our utilities. Brussels' defenders claim the bloc protects workers' rights through rules such as the Working Time Directive, although Britain already opts out of the clause limiting working hours. But membership of the EU has done nothing to prevent Tory administrations from banning basic rights such as secondary picketing or political strikes. It will do nothing to stop the current government from curbing the right to strike still further. Pleading with an undemocratic outside body to intervene on our behalf with the British government is not going to work - and is unworthy of a labour movement that won us weekends, paid holidays and the minimum wage through its own efforts, not through the kindness of some distant Eurocrat. No BJR. Why do you keep stating i am somehow upset or annoyed by your posts. I'm not and never was, why keep apologising? Is it because you want me to be? Wouldn't be baiting me by any chance would you............. And no, the post isn't relevant as i said in my last post, without a leader it's obvious they are less appealing, fuck all to do with Corbyns involvement. Stick to UKIP mate, they suit you. Stop trying to pretend you have a genuine worry about Labour choosing the right candidate, because you don't seem have one really do you? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2015 18:43:25 GMT
So would you be happy to be in perpetual opposition as a result .? Or ......Do you think some may be swayed by his CND and anti austerity measures ? I'll be absolutely straight with you ....I'll give you my answer . Not in the realms of fantasy ...not even 1% chance ....will Corbyn win anything as party leader . That's the reason why I don't want him ....in a nutshell . Bullshit. You don't want him in because he isn't UKIP, that's the real reason "in a nutshell". Don't try and pretend it's anything else, like you give a flying genuine concern over who leads the Labour party. I don't support UKIP . I'm surprised that you didn't realise that already . You can ask anyone . My politics is practically the same as BigJohns including family background and area where we grew up . Hell would freeze over before I changed my party allegience to that of Labour as I know more than most the advantages of having a decent welfare state . You see I grew up on it . I had free school meals , free clothing vouchers and a good deal more . The big difference is , that I am not blinkered in the respect of the detrimental way the party is currently going and it is because I feel so strongly that I am laying it on the line what a Corbyn election victory would mean . I have been a member of the Labour Party since the early 80.s and also been an activist in the Trade Union movement where for many years I represented the North West as a union delegate for The NUIW and Financial unions .My job at that time was as a Financial Consultant .I have attended conferences across the country and have met Andy Burnham at one such conference at Hastings . I also met him at Liverpool University , but would not necessarily advocate my support for him either , even though he seems a thoroughly decent sort of guy and is far less angry than the likes of you . You see , I am not that shallow despicable 'tool' or ' prick' as you described me as in previous posts you have made ... So .....The floor is now yours for you to prove your credentials and expertise on this hot topic . Mumf |
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