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Post by kbillyh on Jul 28, 2015 18:52:47 GMT
Bullshit. You don't want him in because he isn't UKIP, that's the real reason "in a nutshell". Don't try and pretend it's anything else, like you give a flying genuine concern over who leads the Labour party. I don't support UKIP . I'm surprised that you didn't realise that already . You can ask anyone . My politics is practically the same as BigJohns including family background and area where we grew up . Hell would freeze over before I changed my party allegience to that of Labour as I know more than most the advantages of having a decent welfare state . You see I grew up on it . I had free school meals , free clothing vouchers and a good deal more . The big difference is , that I am not blinkered in the respect of the detrimental way the party is currently going and it is because I feel so strongly that I am laying it on the line what a Corbyn election victory would mean . I have been a member of the Labour Party since the early 80.s and also been an activist in the Trade Union movement where for many years I represented the North West as a union delegate for The NUIW and Financial unions .My job at that time was as a Financial Consultant .I have attended conferences across the country and have met Andy Burnham at one such conference at Hastings . I also met him at Liverpool University , but would not necessarily advocate my support for him either , even though he seems a thoroughly decent sort of guy and is far less angry than the likes of you . You see , I am not that shallow despicable 'tool' or ' prick' as you described me as in previous posts you have made ... So .....The floor is now yours for you to prove your credentials and expertise on this hot topic . Mumf
Assuming i am. 
Nothing Labour about you despite your appeals to the contrary. Certainly no genuine concern about their future leardership, as you say you will never support them again no matter what they stand for.
I don't know how you could even deny this when you even say it yourself............"Hell would freeze over before I changed my party allegience to that of Labour
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Post by harryburrows on Jul 28, 2015 19:05:23 GMT
Bullshit. You don't want him in because he isn't UKIP, that's the real reason "in a nutshell". Don't try and pretend it's anything else, like you give a flying genuine concern over who leads the Labour party. I don't support UKIP . I'm surprised that you didn't realise that already . You can ask anyone . My politics is practically the same as BigJohns including family background and area where we grew up . Hell would freeze over before I changed my party allegience to that of Labour as I know more than most the advantages of having a decent welfare state . You see I grew up on it . I had free school meals , free clothing vouchers and a good deal more . The big difference is , that I am not blinkered in the respect of the detrimental way the party is currently going and it is because I feel so strongly that I am laying it on the line what a Corbyn election victory would mean . I have been a member of the Labour Party since the early 80.s and also been an activist in the Trade Union movement where for many years I represented the North West as a union delegate for The NUIW and Financial unions .My job at that time was as a Financial Consultant .I have attended conferences across the country and have met Andy Burnham at one such conference at Hastings . I also met him at Liverpool University , but would not necessarily advocate my support for him either , even though he seems a thoroughly decent sort of guy and is far less angry than the likes of you . You see , I am not that shallow despicable 'tool' or ' prick' as you described me as in previous posts you have made ... So .....The floor is now yours for you to prove your credentials and expertise on this hot topic . Mumf Wasted breath mumf |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 28, 2015 19:07:45 GMT
lly I simply posted it because it is relevant.The poll is making the point that as things stand people believe that they have become unelectable. As you say, no surprises there. I have consistently said that Corbyn should win and I hope that he does. I Somehow I seem to keep confusing you. I am sorry about that. I honestly don't mean to anger you , just debating the issues, across the political spectrum.There are a multitude of views out there. I certainly do support UKIP . Leaving the EU is the most important Socialist issue at present, and it will be interesting to see where Corbyn eventually stands on it.For clarity ,even if he did support an exit ( and I hope he does) I cannot envisage returning to support Labour, for other reasons. The clip below is from the Morning Star, not the Daily Mail.For some reason I could not post a link, so I have had to copy and paste. Take care Jun 2015 Wednesday 10th posted by Morning Star in Editorial THE government will be spending our money on campaigning to remain in the EU right up to the referendum date, Foreign Secretary Philip Hammond has revealed. Critics in his own party are right to point out that this makes a mockery of the idea of a fair vote. Big business wants to stay in the EU - so the Establishment will use every weapon at its disposal to make sure we make the "right" choice. We've been here before. The 1975 referendum saw an unholy alliance between Labour prime minister Harold Wilson - defying the democratic will of his own party conference - and Tory leader Margaret Thatcher to back a pro-EU vote. The powers that be closed ranks in their eagerness to sign up to a corporate bloc which enshrines privatisation - in the guise of "competition" - and the free movement of capital and labour above the democratic right of individual countries to plan their economies for the common good. The Morning Star was the only national daily to demand an exit from the bosses' club then, and the Morning Star will continue to make the socialist case for leaving in the coming referendum. It was joined by an honourable roll-call of Labour's most principled MPs, including Tony Benn and Michael Foot, while the Yes campaign was bankrolled by the Confederation of British Industry and the City of London. Forty years on, there is less excuse than ever for supporting EU membership. Europe has been subjected to seven years of punitive spending cuts. Brussels diktats have ordered the "restructuring" of economies, causing untold misery as unemployment in southern Europe has soared - hitting a quarter of the adult population at times in the worst-hit countries such as Greece and Spain. A government elected in Athens with an overwhelming mandate to end austerity and halt the fire-sale of public assets is being treated with contempt by the "troika" of the European Union, European Central Bank and International Monetary Fund, who continue to insist on crippling cuts whatever the Greek electorate may want, Yet such is the slavish devotion of the current Labour Party to the EU that Labour leadership contenders Andy Burnham and Liz Kendall were able to tell GMB conference yesterday that they could foresee no circumstances under which Britain would want to leave. This is despite the EU pressing ahead with secretive TTIP negotiations which will further entrench the primacy of corporate power over national institutions. Most of the Labour line-up in Dublin felt obliged to call for various exemptions to this pernicious treaty, although predictably only the always estimable Jeremy Corbyn called for it to be ditched entirely. Burnham campaigned in the run-up to last month's general election for the NHS to be exempted from TTIP, rightly acknowledging that the treaty poses a lethal threat to public services (because it will remove barriers to foreign companies snapping them up, and allow those companies to sue any government that tries to stop them). But the entire EU project poses a threat. EU competition rules stand in the way of renationalising our railways, our postal service and our utilities. Brussels' defenders claim the bloc protects workers' rights through rules such as the Working Time Directive, although Britain already opts out of the clause limiting working hours. But membership of the EU has done nothing to prevent Tory administrations from banning basic rights such as secondary picketing or political strikes. It will do nothing to stop the current government from curbing the right to strike still further. Pleading with an undemocratic outside body to intervene on our behalf with the British government is not going to work - and is unworthy of a labour movement that won us weekends, paid holidays and the minimum wage through its own efforts, not through the kindness of some distant Eurocrat. No BJR. Why do you keep stating i am somehow upset or annoyed by your posts. I'm not and never was, why keep apologising? Is it because you want me to be? Wouldn't be baiting me by any chance would you............. And no, the post isn't relevant as i said in my last post, without a leader it's obvious they are less appealing, fuck all to do with Corbyns involvement. Stick to UKIP mate, they suit you. Stop trying to pretend you have a genuine worry about Labour choosing the right candidate, because you don't seem have one really do you? Billy, I am honestly not trying to bait you. Not interested,I stick to the issues and like the political debate , not just party political issues. EU membership is a cross party and cross EU issue. The Labour party stance on it could be significant. What do you think of the Morning Star quote? It is making the case for the exit from the EU, and has been consistent in doing so. Labour used to share the policy also. |
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Post by kbillyh on Jul 28, 2015 19:15:20 GMT
No BJR. Why do you keep stating i am somehow upset or annoyed by your posts. I'm not and never was, why keep apologising? Is it because you want me to be? Wouldn't be baiting me by any chance would you............. And no, the post isn't relevant as i said in my last post, without a leader it's obvious they are less appealing, fuck all to do with Corbyns involvement. Stick to UKIP mate, they suit you. Stop trying to pretend you have a genuine worry about Labour choosing the right candidate, because you don't seem have one really do you? Billy, I am honestly not trying to bait you. Not interested,I stick to the issues and like the political debate , not just party political issues. EU membership is a cross party and cross EU issue. The Labour party stance on it could be significant. What do you think of the Morning Star quote? It is making the case for the exit from the EU, and has been consistent in doing so. Labour used to share the policy also. Now despite anybodys preconceptions i'm not going to go too go all gooey over an article from the Morning Star, and i have told you twice now about my stance on Europe so why keep baiting???? Edit: Also do not assume that i am a Labour man or a spokesman for them as such. I'm not. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 28, 2015 19:18:03 GMT
Billy, I am honestly not trying to bait you. Not interested,I stick to the issues and like the political debate , not just party political issues. EU membership is a cross party and cross EU issue. The Labour party stance on it could be significant. What do you think of the Morning Star quote? It is making the case for the exit from the EU, and has been consistent in doing so. Labour used to share the policy also. Now despite anybodys preconceptions i'm not going to go too go all gooey over an article from the Morning Star, and i have told you twice now about my stance on Europe so why keep baiting???? Billy We will leave it at that then. I am honestly not trying to bait you, just prefer to talk about the issues, than have petty arguments.I am sure that the issue will come back again Have a good night. |
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Post by kbillyh on Jul 28, 2015 19:18:43 GMT
I don't support UKIP . I'm surprised that you didn't realise that already . You can ask anyone . My politics is practically the same as BigJohns including family background and area where we grew up . Hell would freeze over before I changed my party allegience to that of Labour as I know more than most the advantages of having a decent welfare state . You see I grew up on it . I had free school meals , free clothing vouchers and a good deal more . The big difference is , that I am not blinkered in the respect of the detrimental way the party is currently going and it is because I feel so strongly that I am laying it on the line what a Corbyn election victory would mean . I have been a member of the Labour Party since the early 80.s and also been an activist in the Trade Union movement where for many years I represented the North West as a union delegate for The NUIW and Financial unions .My job at that time was as a Financial Consultant .I have attended conferences across the country and have met Andy Burnham at one such conference at Hastings . I also met him at Liverpool University , but would not necessarily advocate my support for him either , even though he seems a thoroughly decent sort of guy and is far less angry than the likes of you . You see , I am not that shallow despicable 'tool' or ' prick' as you described me as in previous posts you have made ... So .....The floor is now yours for you to prove your credentials and expertise on this hot topic . Mumf Wasted breath mumf Unlike your wonderfully progressive and insightful post. Nothing again Harry. |
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Post by kbillyh on Jul 28, 2015 19:20:09 GMT
Now despite anybodys preconceptions i'm not going to go too go all gooey over an article from the Morning Star, and i have told you twice now about my stance on Europe so why keep baiting???? Billy We will leave it at that then. I am honestly not trying to bait you, just prefer to talk about the issues, than have petty arguments.I am sure that the issue will come back again Have a good night. Think that's the third time you've said that as well. I'll take it you mean it this time. You also have a good night. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 28, 2015 19:45:30 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2015 19:47:39 GMT
I don't support UKIP . I'm surprised that you didn't realise that already . You can ask anyone . My politics is practically the same as BigJohns including family background and area where we grew up . Hell would freeze over before I changed my party allegience to that of Labour as I know more than most the advantages of having a decent welfare state . You see I grew up on it . I had free school meals , free clothing vouchers and a good deal more . The big difference is , that I am not blinkered in the respect of the detrimental way the party is currently going and it is because I feel so strongly that I am laying it on the line what a Corbyn election victory would mean . I have been a member of the Labour Party since the early 80.s and also been an activist in the Trade Union movement where for many years I represented the North West as a union delegate for The NUIW and Financial unions .My job at that time was as a Financial Consultant .I have attended conferences across the country and have met Andy Burnham at one such conference at Hastings . I also met him at Liverpool University , but would not necessarily advocate my support for him either , even though he seems a thoroughly decent sort of guy and is far less angry than the likes of you . You see , I am not that shallow despicable 'tool' or ' prick' as you described me as in previous posts you have made ... So .....The floor is now yours for you to prove your credentials and expertise on this hot topic . Mumf Wasted breath mumf I am. I won't bother in future . |
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Post by kbillyh on Jul 28, 2015 19:48:10 GMT
# Or another way of headlining the comment: "Labour leadership candidate says he is not content with current state of EU" |
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Post by kbillyh on Jul 28, 2015 19:50:02 GMT
I am. I won't bother in future . Yeah, sure. "Hell would freeze over" before you did eh. |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 28, 2015 19:50:34 GMT
# Or another way of headlining the comment: "Labour leadership candidate says he is not content with current state of EU" True (it was not my headline by the way, it came with the link) The significant point though is we know where he stands. |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jul 28, 2015 19:54:07 GMT
Corbyn is gaining massive popularity amongst people that have listened to what the candidates have to say and think that Corbyn best represents their views and I'm one of them. You need to rephrase that comment because it is factually misleading . "Corbyn continues to rely on the support of the far left and unions . As a result the Labour parties appeal continues to diminish " Meanwhile UKIP's support continues to grow . You're not listening or watching what's going on around you. Corbyn can win and has every chance of doing so and it's nowt to do with the far left or the unions. |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jul 28, 2015 19:57:11 GMT
Below are some extracts from the Fabian Society's report on the Labour party's failure as reported in the Guardian ( should really be in the Daily Mail ). Similar to the views of many of the posters on here, but others cannot bring themselves to face up to the issues. Why pertain to represent the working class when you don't actually listen to what they actually say? But rather presume that your views should be their views. "The party had nothing to say on welfare, business creation or immigration, “sounding as if it was on the side of those that don’t work "” “We need to answer concerns about immigration and identity, especially for people attracted by Ukip’s resistance to change. We need to show how we improve the welfare system. We cannot simply defend a status quo that many people think is unfair. We won’t win over hard-working people if we demonise the private sector in which so many people work. We need the humility to listen to the people of the country, as well as our party, to talk about contribution and responsibility as well as equality and fairness.” "they wanted to know what Labour would do about the family down the street on benefits who’d ‘never done an honest day’s work in their life’ " “We need to push further out of our comfort zone and talk about the cultural impact of immigration and the way some communities have changed rapidly over the past few decades.” Labour candidates attack 'predictable and out of touch' election campaign gu.com/p/4b33q?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboardBJR , it's been a constant theme on this message board that whenever an alternative viewpoint to that of the left is aired it is met with outlandish claims and assumptions. You can talk about immigration and say how an open door policy is not good for Britain and instantly be called a racist , you can discuss the problems within the Muslim community, such as their unwillingness to integrate and the child sex cases highlighted in the recent Rotherham cases and be classed as an Islamophobe . Talk about making your own way in the world and wanting a better life for your kids and having personal aspirations and you're "selfish and anti society" The media is biased and full of shit unless it suits the left wing agenda and then it's gospel and 100% true . Links from the Guardian are to be taken seriously but articles from the Mail are to be ignored , simply because the leftys say so. They are wrong Plenty of people with different points of view on this board and most of the time people might as well be talking to themselves because no one's rants or views or opinions are likely to change anyones mind. Certainly not mine You're a funny chap you are, a complex mix of racism and contradiction. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2015 19:59:06 GMT
You need to rephrase that comment because it is factually misleading . "Corbyn continues to rely on the support of the far left and unions . As a result the Labour parties appeal continues to diminish " Meanwhile UKIP's support continues to grow . You're not listening or watching what's going on around you. Corbyn can win and has every chance of doing so and it's nowt to do with the far left or the unions. If you are so sure , then why not take advantage of your superior knowledge and insight by having a small wager on it with Carps like what was suggested last night. |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jul 28, 2015 20:03:16 GMT
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jul 28, 2015 20:05:28 GMT
You're not listening or watching what's going on around you. Corbyn can win and has every chance of doing so and it's nowt to do with the far left or the unions. If you are so sure , then why not take advantage of your superior knowledge and insight by having a small wager on it with Carps like what was suggested last night. It's not superior knowledge at all. It's all about watching and listening and reading. You have had your answer to your "bet" question, I never suggested it and am not remotely interested in doing so. Find someone else to wind up or debate seriously eh? |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 28, 2015 20:09:54 GMT
If you are so sure , then why not take advantage of your superior knowledge and insight by having a small wager on it with Carps like what was suggested last night. It's not superior knowledge at all. It's all about watching and listening and reading. You have had your answer to your "bet" question, I never suggested it and am not remotely interested in doing so. Find someone else to wind up or debate seriously eh? You think this is a wind up do you ? You think I'm being disingenuous do you ? Fine .... Goodnight . Mumf |
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Post by kbillyh on Jul 28, 2015 20:11:41 GMT
It's not superior knowledge at all. It's all about watching and listening and reading. You have had your answer to your "bet" question, I never suggested it and am not remotely interested in doing so. Find someone else to wind up or debate seriously eh? You think this is a wind up do you ? You think I'm being disingenuous do you ? Fine .... Goodnight . Mumf Hahahahaha Meltdown Mumf.  |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jul 28, 2015 20:12:40 GMT
It's not superior knowledge at all. It's all about watching and listening and reading. You have had your answer to your "bet" question, I never suggested it and am not remotely interested in doing so. Find someone else to wind up or debate seriously eh? You think this is a wind up do you ? You think I'm being disingenuous do you ? Fine .... Goodnight . Mumf I don't know Mumf..are you a liar? I don't believe I suggested that at all. Goodnight. |
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Post by stokeharry on Jul 28, 2015 21:46:14 GMT
BJR , it's been a constant theme on this message board that whenever an alternative viewpoint to that of the left is aired it is met with outlandish claims and assumptions. You can talk about immigration and say how an open door policy is not good for Britain and instantly be called a racist , you can discuss the problems within the Muslim community, such as their unwillingness to integrate and the child sex cases highlighted in the recent Rotherham cases and be classed as an Islamophobe . Talk about making your own way in the world and wanting a better life for your kids and having personal aspirations and you're "selfish and anti society" The media is biased and full of shit unless it suits the left wing agenda and then it's gospel and 100% true . Links from the Guardian are to be taken seriously but articles from the Mail are to be ignored , simply because the leftys say so. They are wrong Plenty of people with different points of view on this board and most of the time people might as well be talking to themselves because no one's rants or views or opinions are likely to change anyones mind. Certainly not mine You're a funny chap you are, a complex mix of racism and contradiction. Says the weird anti white anti western loner  |
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Post by Huddysleftfoot on Jul 28, 2015 22:16:52 GMT
You're a funny chap you are, a complex mix of racism and contradiction. Says the weird anti white anti western loner Not anti white or anti western. 0/10...must try harder. |
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Post by stokeharry on Jul 28, 2015 22:19:09 GMT
Says the weird anti white anti western loner Not anti white or anti western. 0/10...must try harder. Lies |
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Post by salopstick on Jul 29, 2015 21:05:54 GMT
Unite and unison backing corbyn. Burnham not happy
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Post by Deleted on Jul 29, 2015 21:20:31 GMT
Unite and unison backing corbyn. Burnham not happy ........yes ....that's a sure fire winner with the electorate for starters ... |
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Post by partickpotter on Jul 29, 2015 21:21:24 GMT
Unite and unison backing corbyn. Burnham not happy Taxi!  |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 30, 2015 12:17:24 GMT
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Post by derrida1437 on Jul 30, 2015 12:21:12 GMT
I'm just glad Corbyn has come out and finally said that he doesn't want to actively campaign to leave the EU.
It's a bit of a game changer for progressives inside the Labour Party.
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Post by wizzardofdribble on Jul 30, 2015 13:50:12 GMT
I'm just glad Corbyn has come out and finally said that he doesn't want to actively campaign to leave the EU. It's a bit of a game changer for progressives inside the Labour Party. Better to be inside this tent pissing out  |
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Jul 30, 2015 13:54:42 GMT
I'm just glad Corbyn has come out and finally said that he doesn't want to actively campaign to leave the EU. It's a bit of a game changer for progressives inside the Labour Party. Derrida I feel exactly the opposite, more akin to the viewpoint of Tony Benn, “the most formal surrender of British sovereignty and parliamentary democracy that has ever occurred in our history” . |
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