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Post by coates on Mar 19, 2015 19:11:58 GMT
Its pretty obvious shawcross will never get picked for england again. On what do you base that assumption? under the current manager he won't.
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Post by Pugsley on Mar 19, 2015 19:14:03 GMT
Are you actually saying Hodgson couldn't have done more in the World cup just gone? Tactically alone we were a laughing stock, not to mention mind boggling selections and moronic statements in the press. He's had his chance, next please.
not only have i not said that but i actually specified that i DON'T think he irreplaceable or incapable of making mistakes. what i said was that if anyone thinks that a new manager would significantly improve us is conveniently ignoring the fact that we just aren't very good simply because our personnel on the pitch aren't even close to the quality of international sides that actually are good.(i.e. in reality, not just the minds of the press or the fans who think we should achieve based on nothing other than the word "England") i think the stat is something along the lines that in the last 23 major tournaments, we've gone out either in the group stages or the first knock out round in about 16 of them. this idea that we SHOULD be achieving more has never been based on anything factual and given the mediocre quality of most of our players nowadays it most definitely doesn't have anything to base it on now! i wouldn't give a shit if Hodgson was sacked but if you really think that he's the root cause of England's problems at international level then you really are sticking your head firmly in the sand mate and completely ignoring the reality of the situation. You said - NO manager on the planet could do much more with our side than hodgson has. That is complete claptrap. His tactics at both tournaments were pathetic. Where have I said the root cause is the manager? I haven't. True, the players aren't good enough but this manager has had more than a chance so it's time to move on.
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Post by mywaydesolzan on Mar 19, 2015 19:15:21 GMT
On what do you base that assumption? under the current manager he won't. Maybe not. But that is not what you posted.
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Post by Pugsley on Mar 19, 2015 19:16:51 GMT
He's picking Jagielka who is totally shot. How anyone can stick up for Hodgson is beyond belief.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Mar 19, 2015 19:17:54 GMT
Jagielka is putting on a masterclass as we speak.
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Post by spiderpuss on Mar 19, 2015 19:18:52 GMT
I see some his Everton charges are making a right spoon of their attempt to progress in the Europa. Ross Barkley? You're avin a laugh.
I do agree Roy won't pick Shawcross if he won the quadrupel and only conceded a handful of goals. He's no a Woy man and never will be. Pity.
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Post by onionman on Mar 19, 2015 19:19:26 GMT
Just watching Jags getting mullered at the back, and Woy thinks he's good enough. Oh dear. Snap shot of 20 minutes of action from the Guardian's live report on today's game. I wonder what Roy Hodgson thinks. Then again, he's not a guy to judge any defender based on 20 minutes of action, is he. GOAL! Dynamo Kyiv 2-1 Everton (Teodorczyk 35;agg 3-3) This is a defensive shambles from an Evertonian viewpoint. Atsu tries to break up the Kyiv advance, but the ball only goes as far as Gusev on the left flank. Gusev lifts a ball into the area, to Yarmolenko, six yards out, level with the right-hand post. He heads down, just as Jagielka and Alcaraz are recreating some classic 1920s movies by sliding around on their arses. The ball falls to the feet of Teodorczyk, who can’t miss. We’re all level. GOAL! Dynamo Kyiv 3-1 Everton (Veloso 37; agg 4-3) We’re not all level. Another Evertonian defensive howler. A long ball. Veloso goes up for it on the edge of the box, and heads to the right towards Teodorczyk. The striker doesn’t win the second header, but Jagielka does his work for him, heading weakly back across the face of the box. Veloso takes the ball down, and batters it into the top left! All of a sudden, Everton are going out. Then again, one more goal will do it for them. The beauty of away goals in European football, right there. 40 min: Now it’s Everton’s turn to look stunned. They’re all over the shop at the back. Veloso makes off down the left, and swings a cross into the centre. Yarmolenko isn’t far away from meeting that one with a crashing header, but Coleman rises to save the day. 44 min: Space for Gusev down the left. He fizzes a low cross into the box. Howard claims under some pressure. Ah, turns out the ball went out for a throw before Gusev crossed. But that’s not really the point. Everton are way too open at the back. Kiev look dangerous in every wave of attack. GOAL! Dynamo Kyiv 4-1 Everton (Gusev 56; agg 5-3) Sydorchuk is sprung into the Everton box down the right. He reaches the byline and pulls a low ball back for Gusev. His shot from six yards is blocked by Coleman, but the ball comes straight back at him. He clips it in off the right-hand post. Everton’s defenders were all standing around, rooted to the spot, with the exception of Coleman, who had fallen over. Farcical defending.
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Mar 19, 2015 19:44:36 GMT
It's fairly obvious, at least to me, that England managers pick the players they think are the best. Regarding Smalling, Jones and Carrick the present United manager seems to rate them as did Ferguson and Moyes. Do you reckon they should be in the squad though Geoff?
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Post by coates on Mar 19, 2015 19:49:39 GMT
under the current manager he won't. Maybe not. But that is not what you posted. maybe i didn't word it correctly.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2015 19:52:32 GMT
It's fairly obvious, at least to me, that England managers pick the players they think are the best. Regarding Smalling, Jones and Carrick the present United manager seems to rate them as did Ferguson and Moyes. Was that scripted for you by someone at the FA?
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Post by mrpickles on Mar 19, 2015 19:54:14 GMT
It's fairly obvious, at least to me, that England managers pick the players they think are the best. Regarding Smalling, Jones and Carrick the present United manager seems to rate them as did Ferguson and Moyes. Do you ever have an opinion of your own Geoff?
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Post by geoff321 on Mar 19, 2015 20:11:44 GMT
I think LG that they deserve to be in the squad and to be rated by RH and three United managers sort of says something.
Not scripted for me arkwright and yes mrpickles I do have opinions of my own, it's just that no one else agrees with them.
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Post by mrpickles on Mar 19, 2015 20:17:54 GMT
I think LG that they deserve to be in the squad and to be rated by RH and three United managers sort of says something. Not scripted for me arkwright and yes mrpickles I do have opinions of my own, it's just that no one else agrees with them. Out of interest then mate, would the squad that Hodgson has picked today differ from the one that you would have picked if you had the opportunity?
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Mar 19, 2015 20:19:31 GMT
I think LG that they deserve to be in the squad and to be rated by RH and three United managers sort of says something. Not scripted for me arkwright and yes mrpickles I do have opinions of my own, it's just that no one else agrees with them. So to be specific you think Chris Smalling deserves to be in the England squad. Is that right?
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Post by geoff321 on Mar 19, 2015 20:29:20 GMT
I don't watch players mrpickles enough to enable me to make correct choices, but from what games I have seen I think he's got it about right.
Regarding Smalling LG I think he's a good player rated by a number of managers, but virtually every poster on here thinks the opposite which is puzzling.
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Post by trigger on Mar 19, 2015 20:38:26 GMT
I don't watch players mrpickles enough to enable me to make correct choices, but from what games I have seen I think he's got it about right. Regarding Smalling LG I think he's a good player rated by a number of managers, but virtually every poster on here thinks the opposite which is puzzling. I think we'd all agree that a vast majority of posters on here think/know you're a complete bell end, tool.
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Post by mrpickles on Mar 19, 2015 20:41:21 GMT
I don't watch players mrpickles enough to enable me to make correct choices, but from what games I have seen I think he's got it about right. Regarding Smalling LG I think he's a good player rated by a number of managers, but virtually every poster on here thinks the opposite which is puzzling. That's what I thought you'd say Are you telling me that you have never looked at one of the squads that Hodgson (or any other England manager) has picked and disagreed? It's nothing to do with how many games they have watched compared to you, this is YOUR opinion. Come on Geoff you aren't in a court of law, you're on a football message board. Let yourself go a bit and give a genuine opinion. I'm just not buying this 'manager knows best' stance that you go for EVERY single time.
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Post by geoff321 on Mar 19, 2015 20:54:47 GMT
Lots of football supporters think they know better than the manager especially after a defeat and that is confirmed on a Saturday night on here if Stoke have lost.
I'm 100% certain that Hodgson has made mistakes but I'm always amazed that the people who know exactly what he did wrong are either fans or pundits who have nerver managed a team themselves.
In other words mrpickles I would judge a player from what I have seen myself and the view of top managers, rather than some people on a message board who perhaps are slightly biased.
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Mar 19, 2015 20:57:03 GMT
I don't watch players mrpickles enough to enable me to make correct choices, but from what games I have seen I think he's got it about right. Regarding Smalling LG I think he's a good player rated by a number of managers, but virtually every poster on here thinks the opposite which is puzzling. Fergusson picked him (sparingly at centre half) because he paid millions for him and couldn't lose face. Moyes and van Gaal pick(ed) him because they have (had) no other option. I have played and watched football for nearly 50 years and Smalling is without doubt, in my opinion and that of every other person I have ever spoken to (other than you), the worst defender I have ever seen playing at the level he is playing. If he was still at Fulham he would be no-where near their first team let alone the England squad. The ONLY positive thing I can say in his favour is that he is an athletic lad (but then so is Mo Farrah).
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2015 20:58:04 GMT
not only have i not said that but i actually specified that i DON'T think he irreplaceable or incapable of making mistakes. what i said was that if anyone thinks that a new manager would significantly improve us is conveniently ignoring the fact that we just aren't very good simply because our personnel on the pitch aren't even close to the quality of international sides that actually are good.(i.e. in reality, not just the minds of the press or the fans who think we should achieve based on nothing other than the word "England") i think the stat is something along the lines that in the last 23 major tournaments, we've gone out either in the group stages or the first knock out round in about 16 of them. this idea that we SHOULD be achieving more has never been based on anything factual and given the mediocre quality of most of our players nowadays it most definitely doesn't have anything to base it on now! i wouldn't give a shit if Hodgson was sacked but if you really think that he's the root cause of England's problems at international level then you really are sticking your head firmly in the sand mate and completely ignoring the reality of the situation. You said - NO manager on the planet could do much more with our side than hodgson has. That is complete claptrap. His tactics at both tournaments were pathetic. Where have I said the root cause is the manager? I haven't. True, the players aren't good enough but this manager has had more than a chance so it's time to move on. When you have a manager picking Jagielka at centre back, a shot-to-pieces steve gerrard as the screening midfielder, with Rooney playing somewhere on the wing then you know you are dealing with an incompetent. Watching Everton tonight reminded me of Hodgson's incompetence in the world cup. Painfully obvious who the weak links are but the manager allows it to continue. I worry that Everton will be in for hughes who in turn may take shawcross with him
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Mar 19, 2015 21:04:41 GMT
I don't watch players mrpickles enough to enable me to make correct choices, but from what games I have seen I think he's got it about right. Regarding Smalling LG I think he's a good player rated by a number of managers, but virtually every poster on here thinks the opposite which is puzzling. Answer this Geoff. Would you be happy if Stoke swapped Shawcross for Smalling?
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Post by mrpickles on Mar 19, 2015 21:05:10 GMT
Lots of football supporters think they know better than the manager especially after a defeat and that is confirmed on a Saturday night on here if Stoke have lost. I'm 100% certain that Hodgson has made mistakes but I'm always amazed that the people who know exactly what he did wrong are either fans or pundits who have nerver managed a team themselves. In other words mrpickles I would judge a player from what I have seen myself and the view of top managers, rather than some people on a message board who perhaps are slightly biased. What if this 'top manager' is failing in his objectives? Like getting out of an average World cup group, and finishing bottom of it in the process? Surely, even as mere know nothing football supporter, you can at least attempt to analyze where he might have got it wrong? Any opinion on what our downfall may have been at the World Cup Geoff? or should I just watch Hodgson's press conference after we were knocked out?
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Post by geoff321 on Mar 19, 2015 21:08:10 GMT
Answer this LG.
Why hasn't LVG come in for Shawcross?
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Mar 19, 2015 21:10:06 GMT
Answer this LG. Why hasn't LVG come in for Shawcross? I asked first. And how do you know he hasn't?
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Mar 19, 2015 21:56:02 GMT
What's up Geoff? Cat got your tongue?
It's difficult defending the indefensible isn't it? Or in the case of Smalling difficult defending the defendless.
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Post by davejohnno1 on Mar 19, 2015 22:10:36 GMT
I don't watch players mrpickles enough to enable me to make correct choices, but from what games I have seen I think he's got it about right. Regarding Smalling LG I think he's a good player rated by a number of managers, but virtually every poster on here thinks the opposite which is puzzling. That's what I thought you'd say Are you telling me that you have never looked at one of the squads that Hodgson (or any other England manager) has picked and disagreed? It's nothing to do with how many games they have watched compared to you, this is YOUR opinion. Come on Geoff you aren't in a court of law, you're on a football message board. Let yourself go a bit and give a genuine opinion. I'm just not buying this 'manager knows best' stance that you go for EVERY single time. Geoff is the ultimate "yes man". Agrees with everything those in power do, questions nothing, accepts everything. People on here have questioned his intentions or his loyalty towards the previous manager. Given his stance, you would think he was the lively and inventive Dave "yes Tony" Kemp. Alas, he acceptance of everything referees do mean that there is no way on gods green earth he could be a trusted ally of Tony Pulis. Perhaps he's Mike Reilly??? Geoff is right though. Smalling has a huge advantage over most players when it comes to England selection. According to Geoff, he's selected for his versatility as being a shit centre half and an even worse right back, is just what England need right now, hence the squad is flooded with the likes of Smalling, Jones, Stones and Chambers.
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Post by geoff321 on Mar 19, 2015 22:12:53 GMT
No I wouldn't swap Shawcross for Smalling but that is a different issue compared to which player is best suited for the England role.
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Post by redstriper on Mar 19, 2015 22:17:25 GMT
How have Shaw and Barkley got into it? clearly not due to current form! Barkley is the most over-rated player since Cleverley, whilst Shaw has lost the plot. Woy is absolutely clueless. England are going nowhere, Sturridge, Kane and Sterling are all good, and Welbeck and Rooney adequate. But we don't have enough quality in midfield to service any of them.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 19, 2015 22:37:43 GMT
How have Shaw and Barkley got into it? clearly not due to current form! Barkley is the most over-rated player since Cleverley, whilst Shaw has lost the plot. Woy is absolutely clueless. England are going nowhere, Sturridge, Kane and Sterling are all good, and Welbeck and Rooney adequate. But we don't have enough quality in midfield to service any of them. Is cleverley in or has his move to villa ended his england career. Does Hodgson pick the england side? Thought the england team was used to add stock to top teams weaker players so they sell for more than they are worth.
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Mar 19, 2015 22:38:08 GMT
No I wouldn't swap Shawcross for Smalling but that is a different issue compared to which player is best suited for the England role. I'm not advocating Shawcross for England. I'd much rather he kept well away from that band of ragged arsed rangers and their myopic buffoon of a manager. I just fail to see how anyone with even a scintilla of intelligence or footballing knowledge could, on the evidence of their own eyes week in week out, think that Smalling would be capable of holding down a regular slot in a Championship team, let alone the National team. I can see the merit of having Jones in the squad because he is a decent utility player but Smalling is absolutely dogshit in every position I've ever seen him in. I would rather have Wilko or Shotton at centre half or full back any day than that utter fuckwit. It is no coincidence that de Gea has regularly been voted man of the match this season. His defence give him plenty to do.
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