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Post by geoff321 on Jun 20, 2014 7:26:42 GMT
This argument about Ryan will never be resolved unless he is given another chance in the England set up.
Whoever the England manager is, if he comes to watch Stoke this season, how many players in the Stoke team will be eligible to play for England?
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Post by bathstoke on Jun 20, 2014 7:33:04 GMT
Did you see Ryans nemesis Ibrahimovic was there last night. Must have p!$$ed himself...
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Post by bignickhowes on Jun 20, 2014 7:43:25 GMT
I know you're a twat that thinks shawcross is better than cahill and jagielka which I find highly amusing I'm definitely a twat But beyond that, you're having a fucking mare. For some reason, you seem to have taken it personally that Stoke fans on a Stoke message board highly rate the Stoke captain (who they have seen play 200 games), and your constant slagging off of him on a Stoke message board is making you sound like a right arrogant twat. It's like me going on a Villa forum and constantly telling everyone on there that Benteke is shite. As I said earlier, you've proved you know jack shit about Ryan on more than one occasion. its fair enough you bigging your own players up but all im saying is he isn't better than cahill or jags, get over it
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Post by bignickhowes on Jun 20, 2014 7:44:36 GMT
Iv watched quite a lot of stoke to be honest so my opinion is based on that Your always going to over rate the players who play for your club Some do Nick but I think most have a fairly balanced view of Ryan. The unavoidable, and inexcusable fact is, Ryan was given barely 15 minutes in a game we were already getting murdered in, to stake his claim to be 'International class'. He fell on his arse but the other central defenders that night were just as bad if not worse and yet they remain in the England set up and Ryan has been completely ignored ever since. During that time he has captained a pretty good Premier League team, improved every aspect of his game and been player of the season for a club that finished in the top half of the table. Despite that, Roy has been to watch him precisely NIL times. Few would claim that he's massively better than some in the England set up but he is certainly as good as most and better than some that have been given far more opportunity than he has. His treatment by the England set up is border-line criminal. Quote "You're always going to over-rate the players that play for your club" Does that include Cahill (the ex VILLA defender)? I dont over rate cahill, I dont think he is a great cb which says alot
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Post by malteser68 on Jun 20, 2014 7:53:30 GMT
On this subject, I just keep repeating myself. The worrying thing for me is that I would have picked the same two that Roy did because, in all honesty, I think they're probably the best of the poor bunch of CHs we have available for England right now. I rate Ryan on a level with most in the England squad, a bit better than some and a bit behind others. He should certainly be a contender but we really are very low on quality at CH right now. my thoughts precisely
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Post by kurt on Jun 20, 2014 7:54:58 GMT
Of Course....he is at least as good as Cahil od Jagielka
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Post by mrpickles on Jun 20, 2014 8:06:13 GMT
I'm definitely a twat But beyond that, you're having a fucking mare. For some reason, you seem to have taken it personally that Stoke fans on a Stoke message board highly rate the Stoke captain (who they have seen play 200 games), and your constant slagging off of him on a Stoke message board is making you sound like a right arrogant twat. It's like me going on a Villa forum and constantly telling everyone on there that Benteke is shite. As I said earlier, you've proved you know jack shit about Ryan on more than one occasion. its fair enough you bigging your own players up but all im saying is he isn't better than cahill or jags, get over it That's your opinion Nicholas. It's a fucking ridiculous one but you're entitled to it. Personally, I'd be devastated at the thought of Cahill replacing Ryan at Stoke. I don't actually mind jagielka (even though he was shit last night) but again I wouldn't swap our captain for him.
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Post by fca47 on Jun 20, 2014 8:11:12 GMT
We needed to play three centre backs, especially when you take two fullbacks, who's main strength is going forward. Cahill and Jagielka are really midfielders converted to CB's, Ryan would have been the central player in a back three, as he is the only true centre back.
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Post by rockzscfc on Jun 20, 2014 9:36:05 GMT
Shawcross would have stopped both goals. Headed the first away and then possibly even taken a red card for the team on the 2nd one.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2014 10:09:34 GMT
Stones will be the new man
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Post by andylgr on Jun 20, 2014 10:13:53 GMT
Jagielka is the worst of the 2 centre halves I thought. Whether Ryan would have done any better is open to debate, but whats plain for all to see is that we are poor in defence.
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Post by dirtygary69 on Jun 20, 2014 10:14:50 GMT
Johnson and Baines' defending from wide areas was shocking in both games but that's not really an excuse to lose your striker in the box.
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Post by britsabroad on Jun 20, 2014 10:24:01 GMT
Shawcross would have stopped both goals. Headed the first away and then possibly even taken a red card for the team on the 2nd one. We can make all the excuses we want, but Shawcross was run ragged by Ibrahimovic and England conceded 3 goals in the 15 minutes or whatever it was he was on the pitch. Suarez is cut from the same cloth as the Swede, it would be seen as a huge risk to have played Ryan after that first performance. I dont really blame Hodgson for not taking him.
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Post by rockzscfc on Jun 20, 2014 10:40:41 GMT
Shawcross would have stopped both goals. Headed the first away and then possibly even taken a red card for the team on the 2nd one. We can make all the excuses we want, but Shawcross was run ragged by Ibrahimovic and England conceded 3 goals in the 15 minutes or whatever it was he was on the pitch. Suarez is cut from the same cloth as the Swede, it would be seen as a huge risk to have played Ryan after that first performance. I dont really blame Hodgson for not taking him. Should have been given another chance since. Debut with a weak defence around him vs Ibrah aint true reflection of the guy.
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Post by salopstick on Jun 20, 2014 10:46:20 GMT
shawcross is free of english failiure
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2014 12:39:33 GMT
Cahill was our only defender tonight. He doesn't deserve all the shit he gets. Cahill did everything tonight and eventually got caught out by a shrewd suarez, which i think was when he was in jagielka's position. Except when for the second goal he managed to get back to Goofy before failing to throw himself into a block or even attempt to block the shot ! he just stopped. No desire no passion no guts. But yes he was the best of a wank pair.
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Post by mtrstudent on Jun 20, 2014 12:51:35 GMT
Cahill was our only defender tonight. He doesn't deserve all the shit he gets. Cahill did everything tonight and eventually got caught out by a shrewd suarez, which i think was when he was in jagielka's position. Except when for the second goal he managed to get back to Goofy before failing to throw himself into a block or even attempt to block the shot ! he just stopped. No desire no passion no guts. But yes he was the best of a wank pair. He made a lot of important blocks and tackles through the game. Still not good enough in defence, but we've got to get Jagielka replaced first IMO.
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boozo
Lads'n'Dads
Posts: 82
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Post by boozo on Jun 20, 2014 12:52:38 GMT
Jagielka is not good enough for international level football
Shawcross is not good enough for international level football
No matter who plays - neither of them a good enough for international level football, so arguing over who should play is really irrelevant. And when i say international level football, i am hoping for England to be competing on a world stage, not just happy being 20th best all the time
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Post by kristoff on Jun 20, 2014 12:53:27 GMT
Cahill was our only defender tonight. He doesn't deserve all the shit he gets. Cahill did everything tonight and eventually got caught out by a shrewd suarez, which i think was when he was in jagielka's position. Except when for the second goal he managed to get back to Goofy before failing to throw himself into a block or even attempt to block the shot ! he just stopped. No desire no passion no guts. But yes he was the best of a wank pair. Said that on another thread except people seem to ignore that part. Not 1 of those defenders can take anything positive from either performance in my opinion. Cahill losing Balotelli seems to have been forgotten rather quickly.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2014 12:54:25 GMT
Cahill was our only defender tonight. He doesn't deserve all the shit he gets. Cahill did everything tonight and eventually got caught out by a shrewd suarez, which i think was when he was in jagielka's position. Except when for the second goal he managed to get back to Goofy before failing to throw himself into a block or even attempt to block the shot ! he just stopped. I noticed that. He seemed to stop a couple of paces early instead of trying to block the shot.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2014 12:57:16 GMT
Jagielka is not good enough for international level football Shawcross is not good enough for international level football No matter who plays - neither of them a good enough for international level football, so arguing over who should play is really irrelevant. And when i say international level football, i am hoping for England to be competing on a world stage, not just happy being 20th best all the time On what basis is Ryan not good enough ? He's the best English defender by a long way, note defender ala Terry, Butcher, Adams, solid, passion, guts, pride, leader, body on the line type player everthing we miss plus despite what many say he CAN play too.
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Post by Danstoke82 on Jun 20, 2014 12:59:44 GMT
I though Cahill did all he could for our cause, sadly, Jagielka was not on the same page.
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Post by Danstoke82 on Jun 20, 2014 13:01:13 GMT
Hart; Walker, Shawcross, Cahill, Shaw; Wilshere, Henderson, Barkley, Sterling; Rooney, Sturridge.
Future England team?
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boozo
Lads'n'Dads
Posts: 82
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Post by boozo on Jun 20, 2014 13:01:23 GMT
Seriously, have you just compared Shawcross to Terry, Butcher and Adams
While your at it put him up there with Silva, Lahm and Chiellini
I look through my stoke tinted specs every now and again but come on, get real.
Im not saying hes bad or not up to spec or anything - i am saying he is not anywhere near top class international level. England level yes, thats my point. If for England the pinnacle we have to hope for is Shawcross, we will never win anything
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2014 13:03:29 GMT
Except when for the second goal he managed to get back to Goofy before failing to throw himself into a block or even attempt to block the shot ! he just stopped. I noticed that. He seemed to stop a couple of paces early instead of trying to block the shot. 100% he did he just stopped ! it drove me mad, world cup last ditch match and he gave up shocking defending imo.
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Post by Danstoke82 on Jun 20, 2014 13:03:35 GMT
Curtis Davis will probably get another chance before Ryan Caulker and Stones as well.
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Post by 2004 on Jun 20, 2014 13:05:57 GMT
Yes we overate Shawcross but he is better than those donkeys in the England squad.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2014 13:12:15 GMT
Seriously, have you just compared Shawcross to Terry, Butcher and Adams While your at it put him up there with Silva, Lahm and Chiellini I look through my stoke tinted specs every now and again but come on, get real. Im not saying hes bad or not up to spec or anything - i am saying he is not anywhere near top class international level. England level yes, thats my point. If for England the pinnacle we have to hope for is Shawcross, we will never win anything What a load of nonsence he IS in the same mould as them a player, one who would spill his blood for his Country. What has lahm or the others got to do with this debate ? I'm talking about English CB's and pride in the shirt not the like of the two last night.
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Post by wembley4372 on Jun 20, 2014 13:14:27 GMT
Cahill was our only defender tonight. He doesn't deserve all the shit he gets. Cahill did everything tonight and eventually got caught out by a shrewd suarez, which i think was when he was in jagielka's position. Except when for the second goal he managed to get back to Goofy before failing to throw himself into a block or even attempt to block the shot ! he just stopped. No desire no passion no guts. But yes he was the best of a wank pair. Suarez jogged past Cahill who didn't realise he should track him until it was too late. Jags was probably favourite to intercept the ball until Gerrard intervened.
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boozo
Lads'n'Dads
Posts: 82
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Post by boozo on Jun 20, 2014 13:15:25 GMT
he might be in the same mould - but what i am saying is he is no where near as good as Butcher, Adams or Terry.
You may be happy wanting a 2nd rate England side, Im not.
Should he be their in front of Jagielka - debateable. Ahead of Cahill - not a chance
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