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Post by westpoint on Aug 24, 2013 20:06:44 GMT
Nightmare, against a side who will finish in the bottom five, but he is better than Cahill, Jagielka etc.... ps he is a goalscorer though
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Post by kingstokie on Aug 24, 2013 20:11:46 GMT
Nightmare, in the first half, against a side who will finish in the bottom five, but he is better than Cahill, Jagielka etc.... ps he is a goalscorer though
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Post by davejohnno1 on Aug 24, 2013 20:13:39 GMT
It was worrying how his confidence fell after a 5 minute spell of bad passing, bad touch and shocking defending. He seemed to sulk his way through the first half after conceding the goal.
He picked himself up second half and was his usual outstanding self 2nd half.
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Post by mrpickles on Aug 24, 2013 20:13:45 GMT
Yeah, lets forget about six straight seasons of consistent performances, and concentrate on the ropey 45 minutes he had today and in answer to your question, yes he is better than Cahill, and so am I Jagielka is a bit closer, but still not as good. Fucking amazes how desperate people are to write our players off at times.
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Shawcross
Aug 24, 2013 20:15:22 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2013 20:15:22 GMT
Yeah, lets forget about six straight seasons of consistent performances, and concentrate on the ropey 45 minutes he had today and in answer to your question, yes he is better than Cahill, and so am I Jagielka is a bit closer, but still not as good. Fucking amazes how desperate people are to write our players off at times. It's pathetic mate as soon as one of our players makes a couple of mistakes they are written off by certain people.
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Post by robstokie on Aug 24, 2013 20:18:34 GMT
I thought he could have done a bit more about the Chamakh goal, but he evened it out with his goal. Thought apart from that he was solid but i dont feel comfortable when either him or Huth pushes up when we are going forward.
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Post by YounginStoke on Aug 24, 2013 20:18:46 GMT
Yeah, lets forget about six straight seasons of consistent performances, and concentrate on the ropey 45 minutes he had today and in answer to your question, yes he is better than Cahill, and so am I Jagielka is a bit closer, but still not as good. Fucking amazes how desperate people are to write our players off at times. I wouldn't say written off just a mere observation of shawcross having a shocker of a first half, also it was quite an important 45 minutes as we were playing our first home game binder Hughes and under a totally different style and it shawcross showed that he hasn't quite adapted to it yet
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Post by YounginStoke on Aug 24, 2013 20:20:06 GMT
Yeah, lets forget about six straight seasons of consistent performances, and concentrate on the ropey 45 minutes he had today and in answer to your question, yes he is better than Cahill, and so am I Jagielka is a bit closer, but still not as good. Fucking amazes how desperate people are to write our players off at times. It's pathetic mate as soon as one of our players makes a couple of mistakes they are written off by certain people. Please enlighten me as to how the OP is totally writing off shawcross?
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Post by westpoint on Aug 24, 2013 20:21:35 GMT
Yeah, lets forget about six straight seasons of consistent performances, and concentrate on the ropey 45 minutes he had today and in answer to your question, yes he is better than Cahill, and so am I Jagielka is a bit closer, but still not as good. Fucking amazes how desperate people are to write our players off at times. It's pathetic mate as soon as one of our players makes a couple of mistakes they are written off by certain people. A mistake against a side containing Van Persie?, Soldado, Suarez, etc. No C Palace!!. Open your eyes!! Brazil for Shawcross in the summer. Thoughts?
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Post by mrpickles on Aug 24, 2013 20:28:23 GMT
Yeah, lets forget about six straight seasons of consistent performances, and concentrate on the ropey 45 minutes he had today and in answer to your question, yes he is better than Cahill, and so am I Jagielka is a bit closer, but still not as good. Fucking amazes how desperate people are to write our players off at times. I wouldn't say written off just a mere observation of shawcross having a shocker of a first half, also it was quite an important 45 minutes as we were playing our first home game binder Hughes and under a totally different style and it shawcross showed that he hasn't quite adapted to it yet It was more the "but he's still better than Cahill, Jagielka etc" bit. It smacked of gloating at the people who have said this on here previously. An agenda, if you like
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Post by stokemanusa on Aug 24, 2013 20:29:34 GMT
Shit bin without Ryan we'd be in league one.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 24, 2013 20:30:00 GMT
It's pathetic mate as soon as one of our players makes a couple of mistakes they are written off by certain people. A mistake against a side containing Van Persie?, Soldado, Suarez, etc. No C Palace!!. Open your eyes!! Brazil for Shawcross in the summer. Thoughts?
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2013 20:30:28 GMT
There were 2 players back for their goal.
Last year there would have been 9! Both fullbacks were on the half way line, and the midfield all in the other half.
He should have dealt with it, but he should also have had more cover.
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Post by lastoftheldk on Aug 24, 2013 20:34:18 GMT
Drop him and take the captains job off him
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Post by LDE76 on Aug 24, 2013 20:35:16 GMT
A mistake against a side containing Van Persie?, Soldado, Suarez, etc. No C Palace!!. Open your eyes!! Brazil for Shawcross in the summer. Thoughts? Steady on! Don't you realise that Ryan makes defensive mistakes with McShane-like regularity and has never played against the likes of Robin van Persie?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 24, 2013 20:36:23 GMT
Steady on! Don't you realise that Ryan makes defensive mistakes with McShane-like regularity and has never played against the likes of Robin van Persie? You're right, I do apologise.
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5806
Spectator
Posts: 6
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Post by 5806 on Aug 24, 2013 20:37:31 GMT
Toss first half led from the front second half real drivin force
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Post by march4 on Aug 24, 2013 20:37:49 GMT
There are supposed to be two defenders on the right side of our defence.
Where was the other one?
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Shawcross
Aug 24, 2013 20:37:59 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2013 20:37:59 GMT
It's pathetic mate as soon as one of our players makes a couple of mistakes they are written off by certain people. A mistake against a side containing Van Persie?, Soldado, Suarez, etc. No C Palace!!. Open your eyes!! Brazil for Shawcross in the summer. Thoughts? What an absolutely moronic comment that really is!.
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Post by stokemanusa on Aug 24, 2013 20:40:52 GMT
A mistake against a side containing Van Persie?, Soldado, Suarez, etc. No C Palace!!. Open your eyes!! Brazil for Shawcross in the summer. Thoughts? What an absolutely moronic comment that really is!.
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Post by Olgrligm on Aug 24, 2013 20:41:49 GMT
I would like to see how anybody would defend when they, along with their central defensive partner, spend 45 minutes being completely abandoned by the rest of their team-mates to face numerous 2 on 2, 3 on 2, 4 on 2 and even 5 on 2 situations?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 24, 2013 20:42:13 GMT
There are supposed to be two defenders on the right side of our defence. Where was the other one? He'd pushed up which I think is what he's told to do so I can let him off for that. But what I didn't get is why Shawcross and Huth were so far apart and a midfielder wasn't with them. I get why they split when the full backs push on but to balance it You need a midfielder to drop. Where the fuck was the midfielder?
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Post by LDE76 on Aug 24, 2013 20:44:38 GMT
A mistake against a side containing Van Persie?, Soldado, Suarez, etc. No C Palace!!. Open your eyes!! Brazil for Shawcross in the summer. Thoughts? What an absolutely moronic comment that really is!. I think it would be a good idea for certain posters on this board to form their own little community, where they can exchange their "interesting" views away from normal society and the ears of impressionable youngsters. Any idea for a name?
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Shawcross
Aug 24, 2013 20:44:41 GMT
via mobile
Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2013 20:44:41 GMT
I thought he could have done a bit more about the Chamakh goal, but he evened it out with his goal. Thought apart from that he was solid but i dont feel comfortable when either him or Huth pushes up when we are going forward. A bit of an understatement there about the Chamakh goal. It was schoolboy defending at its very worse to be honest,and it was probably the worst performance I've ever seen him put in during that first half today. He pulled himself together though second half and even without the bonus of the goal showed that he has the character to put bad performances behind him,which is something he has been accused of before,especially by me. Couldn't fault the way he applied himself second half today after what can only be described as an appalling first half display.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 24, 2013 20:45:10 GMT
He's clearly struggling to adapt to the new passing game Hughes is asking. I knew he'd struggle the moment I saw him at Wrexham and said as much on here when I got back from that game.
It's not that he can't pass a ball, because he can. Watch him closely though, along with Huth. They drop so deep to give themselves the time and space they need because it doesn't come natural. It's a tell tale sign. A proper ball playing centre back will step up 10 yards and is not afraid of the confrontation with the ball at his feet that Shawcross and Huth are. By that very default it knackers the team right up because gaps appear throughout the team as players get dragged all over the show.
The goal was his mistake, no doubt but not because he is a bad defender or that he's even out of form because he isn't a bad defender one bit and he isn't out of form. He had to make a split second decision and couldn't. Under the last manager it would have been put into row Z and that was that. Job done. Under the new manager that split second decision turns into:
"Fuck, what does he want me to do? Punt it? Put it out for a throw? Shall I try and control it...? Shit i'm stuck under it...balls he's got it...goal"
A natural ball playing centre half would have held the lad off, positioned himself nicely to take the ball down, given himself the space to drop his shoulder and play it nicely out. A head it and boot it centre back would have put it out for a throw.
Shawcross did neither. Second half was different because we mixed it up better.
There is nothing to suggest that Shawcross cannot develop this side to his game but it will take time, even as much as a few seasons and mistakes will be made.
I'm not sure about Huth short or long term and i'm not sure if the side can afford to carry two centre backs who are learning a new game.
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Post by march4 on Aug 24, 2013 20:45:43 GMT
There are supposed to be two defenders on the right side of our defence. Where was the other one? He'd pushed up which I think is what he's told to do so I can let him off for that. But what I didn't get is why Shawcross and Huth were so far apart and a midfielder wasn't with them. I get why they split when the full backs push on but to balance it You need a midfielder to drop. Where the fuck was the midfielder? In the second half Wilson did that job.
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Post by westpoint on Aug 24, 2013 20:46:09 GMT
Will he be signed by a top six side before the window closes? Will he go to the World Cup? Was his first half performance poor?
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Post by bayernoatcake on Aug 24, 2013 20:50:45 GMT
He'd pushed up which I think is what he's told to do so I can let him off for that. But what I didn't get is why Shawcross and Huth were so far apart and a midfielder wasn't with them. I get why they split when the full backs push on but to balance it You need a midfielder to drop. Where the fuck was the midfielder? In the second half Wilson did that job. He did it more but it still wasn't great. The way I understand this sort of system is this; You start with; Cameron Shawcross Huth Pieters
N'Zonzi Wilson Adam And then when we have the ball it turns into this; Shawcross Wilson Huth
Cameron N'Zonzi Adam Pieters But for whatever reason it barely happened. It's also why I think Wilson and Cameron would be better suited to swapping roles. And imo not having that midfielder in there was what killed us for that goal after some woeful defending. Huth was too far away to cover efficiently and Chamakh had too much free space to manoeuvre into and utilise. Hopefully though it's a learning point for the new system and we can learn from it.
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Post by stokemanusa on Aug 24, 2013 20:52:16 GMT
Quite obvious if a fb pushes up the mf center needs to drop back a bit, Wilson and muni for CDM role for me this formation we will get eaten alive by roving midfielders by the top clubs.
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Post by westpoint on Aug 24, 2013 20:54:53 GMT
Will he be signed by a top six side before the window closes? Will he go to the World Cup? Was his first half performance poor? Any response?
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