Out of interest how many have had enough

[foster]

Feb 4, 2011 12:22:41 GMT Davef said:

That's pretty much how I feel about it Dave.

This season will see me missing more away games than I've done in twenty-odd years. I missed Chelsea, Man Utd and Liverpool (though probably would've done both of those games had they been Saturday matches and provided a weekend out) and I won't be going to Arsenal.

Supporting your club isn't a cock measuring context, and you don't get any medals for it. I've seen more Stoke matches than I care to remember and been through the shit of Ball, Little, Kamara et al, yet still get stick by fellow supporters for what they consider my stance on our manager to be.

This is the Premier League and the fact is that every now and then we're going to beaten heavily. I can handle that, it's not a big deal. I don't like to see us playing badly and I'll have my say when we do, like we did at Fulham. What I can't stand to see is my team not even giving it a go, like we saw at Anfield the other night.

While the likes of Wolves and Blackpool can go there without shitting their pants, then there's no excuse for us to do so.

I agree with the two Daves... so that makes 3 daves who feel the same.

Anymore?.. Daves only!!

[Davef]

Feb 4, 2011 12:38:41 GMT mcf said:

Funny that davef picks out at wolves and blackpool as the ideal teams when those 2 are the fuckers that got fined for fielding weaker teams at other places.

Yeah, Blackpool were fined (wrongly by the way) for making big changes for their away game at Villa Park, but did they go there with one up front, a massive chasm between their midfield and front player and generally play with no ambition?

No they didn't and they were very unlucky not come away with a result, despite fielding a pretty inexperienced team on the night.

Of course it's TP's job to get as many points as he can, and if he feels that defending for his life at places like Anfield, Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge and the Emirates is the way to sneak something on those grounds, then fair enough.

Just don't expect everyone to be happy with it, especially when they're paying upwards of £50 to watch, and don't moan at people when they decide that they don't actually want to go and watch it.

[MrMagic]

Feb 4, 2011 12:40:31 GMT mcf said:

Mr Magic

Are you sure?

Statisitcs would tell you that TP has found an extra 10,000 fans that weren't there before.

Of course mcf. Getting us into the Premier League has completely changed the club from top to bottom. My point is that some people seem to think that supporters views are worthless. Tony Pulis is not Stoke City. There is an idea that if he went we would immediately plummet to the lower leagues, which is frankly bollocks.


Its a bit like those horrible M&S food adverts for some supporters.

"MMMMMMmmmm, this isn't just shit football. This is Tony Pulis shit football."

[mcf]

Davef

Moan away all you want - all I'm saying is that you have to understand it.

The reason why you, Johnno and werrington moan has more to do with your PHW heritage though.

Magic

The day Tony Pulis leaves could well be the beginning of the end of the Prem adventure -you never know. Look at Charlton. Pick the wrong bloke and it can go tits up very quickly.

[RAF]

Feb 4, 2011 12:53:20 GMT mcf said:

Davef

Moan away all you want - all I'm saying is that you have to understand it.

The reason why you, Johnno and werrington moan has more to do with your PHW heritage though.

Magic

The day Tony Pulis leaves could well be the beginning of the end of the Prem adventure -you never know. Look at Charlton. Pick the wrong bloke and it can go tits up very quickly.

Or pick the right person such as Spurs did when they were in the bottom three and get European Football and a top 4 finish.
This Charlton analogy is just used by the apologists.

H

[sirpineapple89]

Feb 4, 2011 12:53:20 GMT mcf said:

Davef

Moan away all you want - all I'm saying is that you have to understand it.

The reason why you, Johnno and werrington moan has more to do with your PHW heritage though.

Magic

The day Tony Pulis leaves could well be the beginning of the end of the Prem adventure -you never know. Look at Charlton. Pick the wrong bloke and it can go tits up very quickly.

Not the frigging Chartlon thing again!!!

[alster]

Feb 4, 2011 12:55:36 GMT RAF said:

Feb 4, 2011 12:53:20 GMT mcf said:

Davef

Moan away all you want - all I'm saying is that you have to understand it.

The reason why you, Johnno and werrington moan has more to do with your PHW heritage though.

Magic

The day Tony Pulis leaves could well be the beginning of the end of the Prem adventure -you never know. Look at Charlton. Pick the wrong bloke and it can go tits up very quickly.

Or pick the right person such as Spurs did when they were in the bottom three and get European Football and a top 4 finish.
This Charlton analogy is just used by the apologists.

H

Exactly, the right manager could move us on to the next level. Can Pulis?

[Bagwash]

I am also thinking of keeping off here for a while.Reading some of the messages you would think we were 12 points adrift at the bottom.No doubt someone will post that I am easily pleased but as far as I am concerned I am living the dream.GGOOAARRNN TP.

[mcf]

It's true Boxxy

Pick the wrong manager and you can be fucked.

Look at Newcastle and the debacle with Allardyce and Keegan - there is no saying that we would recover.

Look at WBA where swapping managers does little to improve their yo-yo status.

Birmingham...West Ham....Hull..you could go on and on.

There aren't as many the other way though.

RAF - barely 10 games had been played, Harry Rednapp is a good manager. He already had lots of good players there and he also was given some serious cash to play with. name me another team?

I can think of Owen Coyle with Bolton to date and that's about it.

[mcf]

alster

This is the next fucking level.

[alster]

Feb 4, 2011 13:02:57 GMT mcf said:

alster

This is the next fucking level.

Of course it is dear.

[RAF]

Feb 4, 2011 13:01:37 GMT mcf said:

It's true Boxxy

Pick the wrong manager and you can be fucked.

Look at Newcastle and the debacle with Allardyce and Keegan - there is no saying that we would recover.

Look at WBA where swapping managers does little to improve their yo-yo status.

Birmingham...West Ham....Hull..you could go on and on.

There aren't as many the other way though.

RAF - barely 10 games had been played, Harry Rednapp is a good manager. He already had lots of good players there and he also was given some serious cash to play with. name me another team?

I can think of Owen Coyle with Bolton to date and that's about it.

See it's the same old post moving again.
I name one, it's not good enough I have to name another.
Well I don't hear or see any other team apart from Charlton being banded around as an example of what not to do.
I'm sure you can drag one up, and I'm sure I can post reasons why it is not the same.
The fact is if Pulis goes, which by the way I don't think he should then it is just as likely that everything will turn out ok as it is that it will all go to rat shit.

H

[alster]

Feb 4, 2011 13:01:37 GMT mcf said:

It's true Boxxy

Pick the wrong manager and you can be fucked.

Look at Newcastle and the debacle with Allardyce and Keegan - there is no saying that we would recover.

Look at WBA where swapping managers does little to improve their yo-yo status.

Birmingham...West Ham....Hull..you could go on and on.

There aren't as many the other way though.

RAF - barely 10 games had been played, Harry Rednapp is a good manager. He already had lots of good players there and he also was given some serious cash to play with. name me another team?

I can think of Owen Coyle with Bolton to date and that's about it.

Martin O'Neil's Aston Villa and just about every club he's managed, his success at Leicester was unparalleled in their history, led Celtic to their most successful period in recent history. A diamond just waiting to be mined. Wish we would before somebody else does.

[fortressbritannia]

Feb 4, 2011 13:10:43 GMT alster said:

Feb 4, 2011 13:01:37 GMT mcf said:

It's true Boxxy

Pick the wrong manager and you can be fucked.

Look at Newcastle and the debacle with Allardyce and Keegan - there is no saying that we would recover.

Look at WBA where swapping managers does little to improve their yo-yo status.

Birmingham...West Ham....Hull..you could go on and on.

There aren't as many the other way though.

RAF - barely 10 games had been played, Harry Rednapp is a good manager. He already had lots of good players there and he also was given some serious cash to play with. name me another team?

I can think of Owen Coyle with Bolton to date and that's about it.

Martin O'Neil's Aston Villa and just about every club he's managed, his success at Leicester was unparalleled in their history, led Celtic to their most successful period in recent history. A diamond just waiting to be mined. Wish we would before somebody else does.

1. TP is doing a fantastic job and there is no reason to get rid of him without becoming the laughing stock of the country.

2. Martin O'Neill spent a hell of a lot of money at Villa by taking them from 10th to 6th

[mcf]

We went for Martin O'Neil and he turned us down.

I don't think I'd get rid of a successful manager for one that turned us down in the past. If TP left tomorrow though, then I'd take O'Neill.

I'd be pretty worried that he'd leave us if he broke a nail or something though.


I think I've already named 4 teams RAF.

Somebody put Leicester down as well, so thanks for that.

[Davef]

Feb 4, 2011 12:53:20 GMT mcf said:

The reason why you, Johnno and werrington moan has more to do with your PHW heritage though.

Yeah, whatever.

Feb 4, 2011 13:02:57 GMT mcf said:

alster

This is the next fucking level.

What does TP mean by "really pushing on" if we stay up for a third year then?

[alster]

Feb 4, 2011 13:16:11 GMT fortressbritannia said:

Feb 4, 2011 13:10:43 GMT alster said:

Martin O'Neil's Aston Villa and just about every club he's managed, his success at Leicester was unparalleled in their history, led Celtic to their most successful period in recent history. A diamond just waiting to be mined. Wish we would before somebody else does.

1. TP is doing a fantastic job and there is no reason to get rid of him without becoming the laughing stock of the country.

2. Martin O'Neill spent a hell of a lot of money at Villa by taking them from 10th to 6th

So you actually think the country would be laughing at us if we replaced Pulis with O'Neil. I'm not even sure they'd be perplexed as I was at Blackburn replacing Allardyce with Kean. By the way there is a chasm of difference between finishing 6th and 10th and the sum of it is a lot more than 4 places for those who stare at tables but understand little else.

[mcf]

I was teasing you mardy tart.

I don't really know other than what I heard him say in a post match interview like everybody else.

More younger players that I think he regarded to have a better pedigree than current players but would obviously carry the risk.

Personally, I don't buy the 3 year argument. You are what you are and you have to deal with whatever teams you have to deal with. There are too many other factors to consider.

[davejohnno1]

I am proud of my PHW heritage! Pulis is a cunt. Always has been, always will be. I suspect that is why he has achieved so much with our club to date.

Have a heritage in being a PHW is particularly useful after shit like Wednesday night!

It was unacceptable and not at all understandable to me.

[alster]

Feb 4, 2011 13:16:18 GMT mcf said:

We went for Martin O'Neil and he turned us down.

I don't think I'd get rid of a successful manager for one that turned us down in the past. If TP left tomorrow though, then I'd take O'Neill.

I'd be pretty worried that he'd leave us if he broke a nail or something though.


I think I've already named 4 teams RAF.

Somebody put Leicester down as well, so thanks for that.

We went for Jermaine Pennant, he turned us down but he's here now. And yes O'Neil if successful might move to a bigger club and if not successful might throw in the towel (that just saves sacking him), he might throw the toys out of the pram like he did at Villa but I think Villa's struggles and subsequent lashing out on Bent suggest that O'Neil was right and Lerner was wrong.

[splodge]

I am not normally a moaner and usually have little sympathy for the serial moaners. However, I have totally had enough of Pulis.
How long are we supposed to feel indebted to him for getting us into the Premier League? He has unwittingly become a kind of dictator and his 'population' are not allowed to say anything bad about him because he has us emotionally blackmailed with the whole promotion thing.
Well I think in the third year we are allowed to be something other than sycophantly grateful to him.
The fact is Pulis has no idea what to do with skilful players. His only skill as a manager is to get the best out of cloggers, workhorses and grifters and get them playing as a team. As has been mentioned before his mindset is always stuck in avoiding defeat rather than going for a win.
This season is the first in which we have had, on paper, a quality side that you'd expect to finish between 7th and 12th. This should have come with a comcomitant confidence in going out to beat the lower teams and have a go at the bigger teams. Also, this means that any decent manager could come in and keep us in the top half - Pulis was only 'talismanic' while the players in the team were not quite Premier standard.
Instead we have had to watch multi million pound players be totally stifled by his tactics, instead of enjoying their talent. It is incredibly frustating. Virutally every single first half this season has seen an ineptitude that suggests that the players are somehow keeping something back, as if instructed not to do anything too positive such as score or create chances.
The game against Liverpool was the tipping point for me. Going out for a 0-0 against a team that have been below us all season and were there for the taking is criminal. He should be sacked on that point alone.
These few seasons in the Prem could be the only ones we see in another 25 years - I think the fans have a right to enjoy it while we're here, rather than see our expensive players straitjacketed by Pulis' unremitting negativity.
Comparisons with West Brom etc are utter nonsense. As I have mentioned the team, even on paper now, is not relegation material. Playing like West Brom is only suicide when your players aren't good enough. As for Charlton, totally different situation. Ours are and yet we still have to play the Pulis way.
Pulis needs to admit he can't do anything more and go and depress some lower league club for a season, getting them promoted through dogged 0-0 and 1-0 wins, and all their fans will have to be so grateful, despite now hating the football and feeling somehow worse than when they were in a lower league but entertaining.

We will lose to Sunderland. Pulis will go for a 6-4-0 formation and hope the ball goes ricochets in off a blackcat's backside.

Please those who are defending him, stop - don't you want to ENJOY being in the Prem rather than just EXIST there?

Pulis analogy - it is like an ugly man being given Brad Pitt's face for a week and staying in every night.

[y_oh_y_delilah]

Feb 4, 2011 13:31:55 GMT davejohnno1 said:

Have a heritage in being a PHW is particularly useful after shit like Wednesday night!

. . . but not very clever when you've had a Pulis selected team thrash the arse off Liverpool as we did just a few short weeks ago.

Just be careful what you wish for, that's all.

[alster]

Feb 4, 2011 13:33:26 GMT splodge said:

I am not normally a moaner and usually have little sympathy for the serial moaners. However, I have totally had enough of Pulis.
How long are we supposed to feel indebted to him for getting us into the Premier League? He has unwittingly become a kind of dictator and his 'population' are not allowed to say anything bad about him because he has us emotionally blackmailed with the whole promotion thing.
Well I think in the third year we are allowed to be something other than sycophantly grateful to him.
The fact is Pulis has no idea what to do with skilful players. His only skill as a manager is to get the best out of cloggers, workhorses and grifters and get them playing as a team. As has been mentioned before his mindset is always stuck in avoiding defeat rather than going for a win.
This season is the first in which we have had, on paper, a quality side that you'd expect to finish between 7th and 12th. This should have come with a comcomitant confidence in going out to beat the lower teams and have a go at the bigger teams. Also, this means that any decent manager could come in and keep us in the top half - Pulis was only 'talismanic' while the players in the team were not quite Premier standard.
Instead we have had to watch multi million pound players be totally stifled by his tactics, instead of enjoying their talent. It is incredibly frustating. Virutally every single first half this season has seen an ineptitude that suggests that the players are somehow keeping something back, as if instructed not to do anything too positive such as score or create chances.
The game against Liverpool was the tipping point for me. Going out for a 0-0 against a team that have been below us all season and were there for the taking is criminal. He should be sacked on that point alone.
These few seasons in the Prem could be the only ones we see in another 25 years - I think the fans have a right to enjoy it while we're here, rather than see our expensive players straitjacketed by Pulis' unremitting negativity.
Comparisons with West Brom etc are utter nonsense. As I have mentioned the team, even on paper now, is not relegation material. Playing like West Brom is only suicide when your players aren't good enough. As for Charlton, totally different situation. Ours are and yet we still have to play the Pulis way.
Pulis needs to admit he can't do anything more and go and depress some lower league club for a season, getting them promoted through dogged 0-0 and 1-0 wins, and all their fans will have to be so grateful, despite now hating the football and feeling somehow worse than when they were in a lower league but entertaining.

We will lose to Sunderland. Pulis will go for a 6-4-0 formation and hope the ball goes ricochets in off a blackcat's backside.

Please those who are defending him, stop - don't you want to ENJOY being in the Prem rather than just EXIST there?

Pulis analogy - it is like an ugly man being given Brad Pitt's face for a week and staying in every night.

Agree with the footy bit and the analogy was superb.

[mcf]

stupid analogy

The ugly man might have a right filthy slag at home to smash through.

[davejohnno1]

I have never advocated that Pulis be sacked you idiot! Pulis has my respect for a great job done to date and I have said many times that he will be here, rightly, for a long long time.

I have merely said that Wednesday night was totally unacceptable and if you think anything other than that, then you are a fully fledged Rimmer incapable of seeing anything other than in Red & White tinted TP spectacles.

Pulis is hard to love, hence if he did happen to leave, I wouldn't shed any tears. He wouldn't be so hard to replace as many would have you believe either but even then, I don't want him to leave!

[judder]

First time poster, this thread has kick started me into action!!

Certainly not out but surely the odd explaination of team selection would not go a miss. Out of the 100 prem games how many times have we had our strongest line up on the pitch?? I dont mean sorro v bego type disagreements I mean the ones which leads to 95% of fans gasping on hearing the team announced.
Much has been made of Tunny already but for us to play any game without either him, ric or eidur on the pitch (which happened more often than not) was beyond belief.

[Ddraigcoch]

Yeah fcuk it ........sack TP and PC while he's at it may as well sell the club to some foreign mercenary cnuts, who can appoint a 'big name manager' who everybody can buy into and give him their full backing for what he may or may not achieve for STOKE CITY.

Buy back Tuncay and alls good.

That'll do it aye!!

Enough is enough of the garbage about getting rid of TP.

[sjohank]

Feb 2, 2011 22:40:57 GMT cobhamstokey said:

I'll never forget what he's done getting us into the Premiership from where we were. The one thing that I'd hate to happen is for him to take us back down and all the wonderful work he's done be replaced my the memorys of negative football and relegation. He's worth so much more.
I think TP has taken us as far as he can as a club sometimes that can happen. He's become way too stubborn and isn't prepared to change tactics particularly away from home. Tonights team selection was all about damage limitation and no one can convince me he was ever going for a draw at best. We're worth more than that. It wasn't Chelsea, Arsenal or Spurs we were playing tonight it was a very average Liverpool side that we comfortably beat at home with not much difference in either sides available personal.
I think we're becoming stagnent and we need some new blood on the management team that can attract better players and can produce better football. Someone like O'Neill would be perfect if he'd come even someone like Curbishly would improve us and use our best players and not the likes of Diao and drop Ric for the far less limited Walters.

"I think TP has taken us as far as he can as a club."

This is a very interesting statement.

As far as he can.......Is TP with his weird, defensive footballing philosophy, combined with a distinctly stubburn personality, at all able to take us to a higher level?

Perhaps not!

[foster]

I respect Pulis for what he's achieved with the club, however, if David Moyes became available tomorrow i would prefer to have him in charge.

I would also have no issue in putting Coyle in charge even if he is a Judas.

My loyalty's to the club and if a situation arrises which could benefit the club and improve the quality of our play then i will gladly go along with it.

MoN doesn't interest me though.

[foster]

Feb 4, 2011 13:57:03 GMT sjohank said:

Feb 2, 2011 22:40:57 GMT cobhamstokey said:

I'll never forget what he's done getting us into the Premiership from where we were. The one thing that I'd hate to happen is for him to take us back down and all the wonderful work he's done be replaced my the memorys of negative football and relegation. He's worth so much more.
I think TP has taken us as far as he can as a club sometimes that can happen. He's become way too stubborn and isn't prepared to change tactics particularly away from home. Tonights team selection was all about damage limitation and no one can convince me he was ever going for a draw at best. We're worth more than that. It wasn't Chelsea, Arsenal or Spurs we were playing tonight it was a very average Liverpool side that we comfortably beat at home with not much difference in either sides available personal.
I think we're becoming stagnent and we need some new blood on the management team that can attract better players and can produce better football. Someone like O'Neill would be perfect if he'd come even someone like Curbishly would improve us and use our best players and not the likes of Diao and drop Ric for the far less limited Walters.

"I think TP has taken us as far as he can as a club."

This is a very interesting statement.

As far as he can.......Is TP with his weird, defensive footballing philosophy, combined with a distinctly stubburn personality, at all able to take us to a higher level?

Perhaps not!

Based on what we've all seen over the past 2.5 years in the Premier League, does anyone think that Tone is a) Willing to change his gameplan to accomodate creative players or b) Even able to divert from his one dimensional gameplan?

I can't see us ever doing better than mid table with our current tactic (singular), no matter which players we have in the team.

So basically, the question i ask myself is 'Is TP able to change, adapt and evolve along with the team should we bring in higher class players?' and the answer to that so far is a resounding 'No'.

I'm more than happy to give TP this season (3 year consolidation complete) and next season (no more excuses) to prove that he has what it takes to take this club forwards. I don't particularly care about finishing in a higher league position. I just want to see some more football being played and some improvement on the pitch.

Will it come to the point after our 4th season (should we not get relegated) that the club actually outgrows Pulis? As we have outgrown a number of players from our promotiom team and still continue to do so.

I hope he proves me wrong but i'm not convinced.