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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Aug 14, 2019 9:19:21 GMT
It's a rough, uncut diamond, but when he finally polishes it we will have a real gem!
Well done Nathan and the lads. Especially Nathan. It hasn't gone to plan but Christ he's stuck at it and had the courage of his convictions.
I only heard Saturday's game on the radio, but it sounded like we created a lot of chances there as well. The work on the training pitch is clearly coming together.
We're going to have some exciting times ahead. His promise of "fluid football on the front foot" may yet be delivered.
Delighted with his flexibility and the Ryan Woods renaissance. He could have a big part to play for us this season. Everybody in this squad has a chance and I think he will use the squad.
Happy days ahead?!
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Aug 14, 2019 9:02:36 GMT
When Neil Franklin made his first England appearance in February 1945, Stoke City were the only club in the country with three players in the England squad (Matthews, Franklin & Soo), and Freddie Steele may still have been a full international at that point were it not for the combination of serious injuries and depression. Steele scored 159 goals in 251 games for Stoke, excluding his wartime exploits, and I was told Stanley Matthews rated him as being as good as, if not better, than Tommy Lawton. Frank Soo was England's first non-white international and is still England's only international of Asian descent; Stan Mortensen described him as being 'incapable of a clumsy moment', and Franklin considered him and Matt Busby to be the two finest wing-halves he ever played with or against, better even than Joe Mercer. As an earlier poster mentioned, Soo really did lose his peak years to the war, and he left Stoke right at the end of WWII. Whilst Matthews' departure is understandably considered a key reason behind Stoke's failure to win the league title in that 1946-47 season, I do wonder if Soo sticking around for that first post-war campaign could have been just as helpful. I may be a tad biased, but I'd suggest all four ought to make an all time Stoke City XI, and the fact that Banks, Matthews & Franklin all deserve to make all time England XI's is pretty impressive. Thanks, that post is really interesting. My old man also told me what a good player Frankie Soo was, although sometimes over looked next to the peerless Neil Franklin. I certainly agree and have posted before that Banks, Franklin & Matthews would make an all time England XI, but there would also be a strong case for Freddie Steele, who despite relatively few appearances still holds the goals per games record I believe. The most difficult position in the Stoke XI for me was the striker alongside Steele. Very hard to leave out Big John, but I felt they were too alike. Jimmy got the nod because I can imagine how he would complement Hudson behind him and Steele ahead of him perfectly.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Aug 13, 2019 16:14:52 GMT
This is pretty much impossible but fun. Mine would be something like:
Banks
Marsh Smith Franklin Pejic
Matthews N'Zonzi Hudson Shaqiri
Steele Grenhoff
Subs: Shilton, Allen, Shawcross, Bojan, Stein
Unbelievably that means no place for Bloor, Skeels, Conroy, Ritchie, Chamberlain, Dixon, Bould, Hoekstra, Fuller, Begovic, Arnautovic, Crouch and Butland who have all been superb players for Stoke City - and a couple of other teams.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Aug 13, 2019 9:49:57 GMT
Get well soon, Jimmy. I'm another one for who Jimmy Greenhoff was my God.
If I ever have a kick about now, it's still "Jimmy Greenhoff - 1-nothing, Stoke City!" in my best Hugh Johns voice.
The way I remember it, the 1974 team played a kind of diamond, but with Huddy as the attacking midfielder. From memory, Jimmy played ahead of Hudson off John Ritchie. John Mahoney was deeper, but also surged forward, with the underated Jimmy Robertson, TC or later Geoff Salmons or Sean Haslegrave pretty much as orthodox wingers.
I was just a kid, but they seemed to be a fantastic team. Probably a bit of red and white tinted nostalgia too...
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Aug 13, 2019 9:37:51 GMT
Like all football supporters we are fickle. I always liked Erik, solid pro, reasonably dependable, 6-7 out of 10 every week. Played a lot of games, probably many when he was carrying knocks and niggles. Sometimes a little frustrating with his crossing, but that's why he was at Stoke.
And yet... the abuse he received on this forum was almost weekly and constant. But now his departure is another negative, another reason to criticise the football club.
There may be reasons why he went. I don't know how long he had left on his contract (FM?), or whether he was one of the higher earners. NJ clearly didn't think he fitted in with his long term plan. Maybe NJ thought he would get a new LWB that hasn't materialised yet. It is probably a combination of a lot of reasons.
We're re-building and isn't an immediate process. Instead of beating the club, let's cut them a little slack and see how it develops. We're 2 games in to this new "project".
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Aug 13, 2019 9:19:56 GMT
Sounded much more positive and upbeat in that press conference than after QPR. I believe him. We are turning the corner. His positivity is infectious.
At this level, the quality in the squad is so deep, the tricky thing is finding the balance on the pitch.
The fact that Ryan Woods, Tom Ince, Lee Gregory and Scott Hogan have come in and done well will have surprised a few of our experts.
I think we're going to be in for a really exciting season. There will be some frustration as he gets it right, but once that confidence really clicks, he's really going to go for it in every game.
I hope there will be one or two eating a bit of humble pie, only because that will mean Stoke City are progressing under Nathan Jones.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Aug 12, 2019 9:32:36 GMT
I'm another for Jones in. The improvement was marked. Uncharacteristic from Jack, but I think he was partially sighted and we were unlucky at the other end. Another day that would have been a solid away win. But when the luck's not with you...
Big test of character for the lads, but we're definitely moving in the right direction.
We got a thing going on, me and Mister Jones...
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Aug 8, 2019 11:32:30 GMT
This one isn't exactly apples with apples. Hughes served up the best 3 top flight seasons of football ever seen at Stoke City. Rowett was our manager in league 2 for 20 odd games before he was sacked 8 months ago. Yep, no debate here. MH's 2015 team was probably the best Stoke City team ever. Certainly for 40 years. Not just in terms of results either. The players, the team and the football were all outstanding.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Aug 7, 2019 15:31:12 GMT
Or a team that has arguably just been through its best 10 year spell in its history and is looking to bounce back. I get what you mean, but it's the same football club and the same set of mostly locally connected supporters. But a completely different set of circumstances, which dictate those reactions as they do amongst all supporters of all football clubs. Yeah, I get it, the old chicken & egg situation. I think the OP has a valid point though. If the supporters really get behind the team, it will make a difference.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Aug 7, 2019 14:16:01 GMT
Or a team that has arguably just been through its best 10 year spell in its history and is looking to bounce back.
I get what you mean, but it's the same football club and the same set of mostly locally connected supporters.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Aug 6, 2019 16:13:51 GMT
Scans like a Fat White Family lyric. More like a bit of William Burroughs in Naked Lunch!!!! “Did I ever tell you about the man who taught his asshole to talk? His whole abdomen would move up and down, you dig, farting out the words. It was unlike anything I ever heard. Bubbly, thick, stagnant sound. A sound you could smell. This man worked for the carnival,you dig? And to start with it was like a novelty ventriloquist act. After a while, the ass started talking on its own. As well as the rhythm and cadence being accurate, I like the metaphor of talking out of the ass for The Oatcake too ;-)
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Aug 6, 2019 14:45:21 GMT
It’s been hard being a Stoke City fan over the last few seasons. We have been though the meat grinder, and our sprits are low. However I cast my mind back to the 2007/08 season. When the team started to wobble just a little, and promotion was looking like it might slip away. How did we react. By cheering on the team like never before. We pushed them, we inspired them! We as fans played a big part in both getting promoted, and staying up the following season. We need to bring that back! We need to get behind Nathan, the players, the staff! Don’t get me wrong I moan and bitch as much as any other footie fan. But at the matches we need to let the players know we are stoke! We are proud! Now do us proud! UTMP 🔴⚪️ 11,800 home attendance before xmas in our promotion season (Norwich or Qpr was it )...that wasnt exactly 'roaring them on' either. Stoke fans in truth (myself included ) are nothing special and as fickle as any - period. I take the OP's point. I remember the team going 2-0 down to bottom of the table Scunthorpe. The supporters roared the team back out for the start of the second half. You could see it visibly boost the players. They scored 3 (with 1 disallowed) in about 25 minutes to win the game. It seems impossible to imagine that reaction now, as we saw on Saturday. That late kick off against Bristol City in April? 2 up after 20 minutes with Gary Johnson saying his players couldn't hear each other and had never experienced anything like it. Tony Pulis encouraged it and knew its value. It's basic psychology. Sadly, we've reversed that (some would argue its understandable) and some of the players feel the pressure at home and go into their shells a bit. They'll be roared on by the away following on Saturday I'm sure, and I'm also sure that it will boost their collective confidence, which is critical.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Aug 6, 2019 11:22:36 GMT
I think we'll win on Saturday and it will take a bit of pressure off.
It's a funny game, and we've a talented squad in this league. A bit of confidence and form and we will be back on track.
It might take a little time, but his track record suggests he's a bloke who knows what he is doing.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Aug 6, 2019 11:17:34 GMT
On his day, a beautiful footballer to watch. His combination of vision, awareness, movement and skill was mesmerising. I remember Pat Nevin saying after we beat Manchester City at home that his fist touch took out one or two opposition players.
Good luck to Bojan. I really hope he re-discovers the magic wherever he goes.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Aug 2, 2019 13:36:51 GMT
Maybe the tough decisions are Edwards and possibly even Davies, who might have come here expecting to be first choice.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Aug 2, 2019 10:53:45 GMT
We will see what kind of a coach NJ is. I liked McClean's energy against Leicester. In that role, he's only going to be as good as his cover when he goes bombing forwards.
Must admit I was a bit surprised Clucas didn't play left of the diamond. Thought they might work well together, with him dropping in when JM goes forward.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Aug 2, 2019 10:37:12 GMT
As a player, I have great memories of him as a hard, combative midfielder, twirling his arms around to lift the Boothen End. His fearless sliding tackles were brilliant.
As a manager, a chaotic time. I heard stories of him him very down with the players after matches. It was all going wrong for the club at that time.
What I learned was that I think PC always wanted the best for Stoke City, but it's a whole different ball game running a football club when you've got a few quid as opposed to when the money's tight.
You're never going to make money running a football club. The best you can hope for is to get somewhere near to "sustainabilty" if the club is brilliantly run. When the club is struggling, you must have a constant battle with the losses.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Jul 31, 2019 15:43:56 GMT
I disagree. From a commercial point of view, if he is the player who gets you promoted, it looks like a commercially smart investment. Spend an additional £20 million to earn £100 million plus. Also, as a "guaranteed goals" striker at this level, he would have a decent re-sale value despite his age if we wanted to sell after 1 season. See the cases of Rhodes, McCormack etc above. I'm really hoping our strikers get more chances under the new system this year. The only question to be answered is would we score more goals with him in the team. If the answer is yes, we score more goals, get more points and have a better chance of promotion. £20 million well spent in the insane world of professional football in England. Put it this way. £20 million on Gayle at 30 or £12 million on Berahino at 23? Its not commercially sound the TV money is (possible 12:1 according to the bookies) REVENUE. Whereas £20m plus another £6m amortized in wages is new fixed cost that will probably result in a massive loss even if we go up. Well, I'm certainly no accountant and I accept you have a better understanding of the impact of this kind of transfer on the finances of the club. It seems to my brain that the football and commercial goals are the same, promotion back to the Premier League. If that is the case, and that increase in fixed cost increases the chances of achieving those goals and winning that revenue increase, would that not be commercially sound now? Add that to the fact that a goal scoring striker has a resale value if you want to get him off the wage bill and the sums would seem to add up to me. I guess the hard decision is will one player make that difference and then getting the contract right.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Jul 31, 2019 14:29:21 GMT
I disagree. From a commercial point of view, if he is the player who gets you promoted, it looks like a commercially smart investment. Spend an additional £20 million to earn £100 million plus. Also, as a "guaranteed goals" striker at this level, he would have a decent re-sale value despite his age if we wanted to sell after 1 season. See the cases of Rhodes, McCormack etc above. I'm really hoping our strikers get more chances under the new system this year. The only question to be answered is would we score more goals with him in the team. If the answer is yes, we score more goals, get more points and have a better chance of promotion. £20 million well spent in the insane world of professional football in England. Put it this way. £20 million on Gayle at 30 or £12 million on Berahino at 23? Neither. The risk/reward here suggests to errr on the side of caution. The squad needs strengthening in other key areas and, given the unlikely hood of promotion, it is £20m we will not have next summer (if we even have it now and I’m struggling to see where it’s coming from). It’s not worth the risk IMO. Fair point and that is your opinion. There may be somebody at the club who believes that promotion IS our objective. If you consider the parachute payments, it will become harder to get promoted again with each season that goes by. Maybe they think it's worth the extra spend now before we have to sell and really cut back on investment. Given the investment in the playing staff and the comparative wage bill, I could understand that thinking too. Not saying it's an easy decision. It's not like investing in a machine for a factory - it's a high risk business. Somebody with a better understanding of the finances at the club will have to make that decision though.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Jul 31, 2019 13:57:00 GMT
with the service our forwards get, it's irrelevant who's up front and how much they cost, we'll still have the same problem of not getting goals. 20m for possible 30 year old striker is too much for me. i think he's a great player, but we should swerve for future finances I disagree. From a commercial point of view, if he is the player who gets you promoted, it looks like a commercially smart investment. Spend an additional £20 million to earn £100 million plus. Also, as a "guaranteed goals" striker at this level, he would have a decent re-sale value despite his age if we wanted to sell after 1 season. See the cases of Rhodes, McCormack etc above. I'm really hoping our strikers get more chances under the new system this year. The only question to be answered is would we score more goals with him in the team. If the answer is yes, we score more goals, get more points and have a better chance of promotion. £20 million well spent in the insane world of professional football in England. Put it this way. £20 million on Gayle at 30 or £12 million on Berahino at 23?
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Jul 31, 2019 13:05:08 GMT
When you look at it in those terms, surely any half decent manager could get this lot involved in the promotion shake up? It's why I expected a lot more from him last season. We still have good players in all departments. It shouldn't be that hard. Neither of us mentioned our Marmite LWB, James McClean. He would also walk into most top half Championship squads.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Jul 31, 2019 11:39:24 GMT
Most teams in our league would kill for Butland, Edwards, Shawcross, Indi, Collins, Allen, Etebo, Ince and Vokes. There are plenty who would happily take Davies, Baath, Smith, Ward, Woods, Clucas, Gregory and Afobe too. To say nothing of Powell in your original list. Over to you, Nath ;-)
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Jul 31, 2019 11:22:02 GMT
Another interesting piece on the BBC website from a man who know the Championship better than most. Any team that finishes above Warnock's Cardiff will be at least in the play offs in my opinion.
"We know how difficult it is going to be because last year for example, none of the teams that got relegated came back up."
Warnock has revelled in the underdog role since his arrival in Cardiff in October 2016, but accepts this time that does not apply.
"I think the objective is to make sure we get in the top six. I know that might sound a bit defeatist, but I think when you get relegated that's what you have to do.
"I think probably Fulham, West Brom and even Stoke look the strongest squads this season."
I tend to agree with him. Every chance players like Woods, Ince, Gregory, Clucas plus Collins, Verlinden, Davies and Campbell won't be in the starting 11. Strength in depth few teams in this league can match.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Jul 30, 2019 16:34:29 GMT
Like every season, we're going to lose and draw games we should win and vice versa. As always, there will be days when it's frustrating and days when it's brilliant. After the first season, The Prem was a weird place, although I enjoyed some of the unbelievable football and results. But obviously, we were never going to win it. Last season was such a disappointment where as the last promotion season was nail bitingly exciting. I would be happy if we played some attacking football and were right in contention for promotion from the off. The Championship is an open, exciting league and if we're in with a shout it will be fantastic. Guess that's the same for the supporters of all the other clubs in this league though. 07/08 was very exciting towards the back end and after Xmas, but we didn't really start playing like promotion contenders until November. We were about 10th after a loss to Sheff Utd and that was as low as we went I believe. After that we lost about 2 in then next 20, so you can have a middling start and still achieve something. Aston Villa showed it last year too. Yep, it really kicked in after Christmas. (The week when we beat Southampton and Scunthorpe - 2 completely different 3-2 wins was when I though it was going to happen) But as you say, even in mid table in this league, you're in contention. There was a time last season when we were about 6 points off 6th, maybe when we beat Derby and I still thought we'd go up.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Jul 30, 2019 13:56:56 GMT
Like every season, we're going to lose and draw games we should win and vice versa. As always, there will be days when it's frustrating and days when it's brilliant.
After the first season, The Prem was a weird place, although I enjoyed some of the unbelievable football and results. But obviously, we were never going to win it.
Last season was such a disappointment where as the last promotion season was nail bitingly exciting.
I would be happy if we played some attacking football and were right in contention for promotion from the off. The Championship is an open, exciting league and if we're in with a shout it will be fantastic.
Guess that's the same for the supporters of all the other clubs in this league though.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Jul 30, 2019 13:39:23 GMT
Our ability (or inability) to break down teams that sit back will be the main thing that dictates our season. Last year our off the ball movement was fucking none existent at times. From what I've seen in pre-season, it looks to have gotten a bit better and the players look fitter. Powell is likely going to be our most important player this year. Totally agree. Just worries me that he'll have little support. Agree with you both. I've said previously that in Nick Powell we might just have the Championship's Player of the Season. "God Willing" he stays fit and motivated. It looks like he's going to start with Afobe, so his running off Vokes and in behind will be massive if we are to break teams down. There isn't going to be a lot of space behind either. If he makes those runs, Powell has the ability to find him. If we didn't sign Gayle, it wouldn't surprise me to see Ty Campbell force his way in. From what little I've seen, he's fast, mobile and a decent finisher and might fit in our front 3 better. Happy to trust what NJ sees on the training pitch though. I'm excited about seeing how it develops and as I have been for the last 48 years, insanely and irrationally optimistic with 3 days to go until kick off.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Jul 30, 2019 13:09:23 GMT
I don't think QPR will be a pushover. Eze impressed at Stoke last season and of course Geoff Cameron is bound to score.
Mark Warburton will be keen to rebuild his reputation. Like a lot of last season, they will come here trying not to get beat.
I guess they'll sit deep, let us have a lot of the ball and try to break fast.
I'd certainly take a scrappy 1-0 win right now, just to get us off and running.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Jul 29, 2019 14:28:52 GMT
For what it's worth, I think Leicester City will be the "best of the rest" and have a fair chance of breaking into the top 6 this season. Watch out Arsenal, Manchester United and project Lampard.
The fact we competed OK in a pre-season work out is not the calamity that some make out.
Just a little perspective...
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Jul 17, 2019 14:39:35 GMT
Err hes injured already, before a ball is kicked ? Let's hope it's nothing too serious and just a niggle in getting fit. This guy is talented and will be a joy to watch.
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Post by okeydokeystokie2 on Jul 17, 2019 14:25:52 GMT
Excited at this time as always. The start of a new season is still like the approach to Christmas Day when you're a kid.
I thought we'd at least get promotion last season as we had better players than most and a decent Championship manager.
Everything feels a bit fresher and newer this season. Nathan is so driven, I think he will succeed. It's whether we and the club give him the time.
I also think he is trying to build a team. A group who believe in and trust each other. Mark Hughes attracted some talented individuals and for a time really got them to play. I think Nathan is trying to build a group that together is better than the sum of its parts. We haven't had that since the Pulis teams.
Can't wait to see how Nathan and the lads develop this season. Really excited to see this new team and system. He'll be flexible enough to tweak it if it doesn't work.
I also think we may have the Championships's player of the season in Nick Powell.
Bring it on!
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