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Post by abcd1234 on Aug 11, 2019 12:01:12 GMT
This thread is for the "supporters" that think giving Jones the boot is a good idea.
Here is a prime example of why giving managers time is important;
Daniel Farke (Norwich City manager) got appointed boss on the 25th of May 2017. The Norwich fans had really high expectations of promotion for the next season even though this guy was unknown to them.The Norwich fans didn't know how his philosophy of playing 4-2-3-1 would work in the Championship. One year later in May 2018 Norwich finished 16th, they completely under-performed with the players they had and the Norwich fans wanted Farke sacked. Surprisingly the Norwich board backed Farke and decided to give him another season (2018/19). Norwich started poorly in the 18/19 season winning 1 out of their first 5, Farke looked like he was undoubtedly getting the boot. Yet again the board gave him more time, he turned it around and got Norwich promoted as Champions in the same season.
I'm not saying the same will happen to Stoke but sometimes it's a good idea to get behind the manager. I think because our last 3 managers have been so crap we've all completely lost confidence in Jones already thinking he'll be like them. I know the stats about Jones and how many wins he's got since taking over and despite all of this i'd personally give him until May 2021. Unfortunately I think if we're looming around midtable this January the pressure from the fans will bring the board to sack Jones before he's been able to staple his philosophy. We can't keep sacking managers. Jones knows what he is doing, support him!
"We'll be with you every step along the way"
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Post by loosestools on Aug 11, 2019 12:04:54 GMT
Err - the point is he needs to prove that he knows what he is doing as the lynch mob will saddling up the horses in say - 5 weeks time.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2019 12:06:25 GMT
'abcd1234'
Go on then, who are you?
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Post by mrpickles on Aug 11, 2019 12:06:43 GMT
I'm all for giving him the time to get it right, but if we lose the next 3 or 4 then his position will become impossible.
I do honestly think there is something there with Jones. He's definitely still learning on the job and he's making mistakes along the way (Woods substitution yesterday), but I think there is potentially a great manager in there. A win against Derby is a must though.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2019 12:07:37 GMT
'abcd1234' Go on then, who are you? ?????
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Post by boothenesque on Aug 11, 2019 12:11:59 GMT
C'mon, NJ's mum has as much right to post on here as anyone else, she's right we should give him a chance, keep Woods on the pitch next game.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2019 12:16:16 GMT
When he first came in, he wrote of the rest of the season and never promised anything during that time. Im happy with that, his record last season is wiped clear for me.
This whole thing about an expensively assembled squad...thats all before him and he cant be held to that.
We’ve had a big squad change over the summer, but there have been clear improvements. I want him to do well and I’m a fanboy but we can’t go on like this.
Yesterday he seemed exasperated. I cant help but feel if we’d won in that manner, the same suspects would be lamenting how lucky we were and should have lost.
He’s got more time for me. Not too much though, 10-15 games.
One massive factor though is that anybody coming in would still have one hand behind their back with legacy issues. On and off the pitch.
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Post by sportsman on Aug 11, 2019 12:17:40 GMT
Come on nathan, mak em av it.
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Post by march4 on Aug 11, 2019 12:22:45 GMT
This thread is for the "supporters" that think giving Jones the boot is a good idea. Here is a prime example of why giving managers time is important; Daniel Farke (Norwich City manager) got appointed boss on the 25th of May 2017. The Norwich fans had really high expectations of promotion for the next season even though this guy was unknown to them.The Norwich fans didn't know how his philosophy of playing 4-2-3-1 would work in the Championship. One year later in May 2018 Norwich finished 16th, they completely under-performed with the players they had and the Norwich fans wanted Farke sacked. Surprisingly the Norwich board backed Farke and decided to give him another season (2018/19). Norwich started poorly in the 18/19 season winning 1 out of their first 5, Farke looked like he was undoubtedly getting the boot. Yet again the board gave him more time, he turned it around and got Norwich promoted as Champions in the same season. I'm not saying the same will happen to Stoke but sometimes it's a good idea to get behind the manager. I think because our last 3 managers have been so crap we've all completely lost confidence in Jones already thinking he'll be like them. I know the stats about Jones and how many wins he's got since taking over and despite all of this i'd personally give him until May 2021. Unfortunately I think if we're looming round midtable this January the pressure from the fans will bring the board to sack Jones before he's been able to staple his philosophy. We can't keep sacking managers. Jones knows what he is doing, support him! "We'll be with you every step along the way"Norwich started with games against WBA, Leeds and Sheff Utd. Comparing their poor start to ours is a not quite fair.
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Post by march4 on Aug 11, 2019 12:23:13 GMT
C'mon, NJ's mum has as much right to post on here as anyone else, she's right we should give him a chance, keep Woods on the pitch next game. And Gregory.
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Post by stokie223 on Aug 11, 2019 12:34:02 GMT
This thread is for the "supporters" that think giving Jones the boot is a good idea. Here is a prime example of why giving managers time is important; Daniel Farke (Norwich City manager) got appointed boss on the 25th of May 2017. The Norwich fans had really high expectations of promotion for the next season even though this guy was unknown to them.The Norwich fans didn't know how his philosophy of playing 4-2-3-1 would work in the Championship. One year later in May 2018 Norwich finished 16th, they completely under-performed with the players they had and the Norwich fans wanted Farke sacked. Surprisingly the Norwich board backed Farke and decided to give him another season (2018/19). Norwich started poorly in the 18/19 season winning 1 out of their first 5, Farke looked like he was undoubtedly getting the boot. Yet again the board gave him more time, he turned it around and got Norwich promoted as Champions in the same season. I'm not saying the same will happen to Stoke but sometimes it's a good idea to get behind the manager. I think because our last 3 managers have been so crap we've all completely lost confidence in Jones already thinking he'll be like them. I know the stats about Jones and how many wins he's got since taking over and despite all of this i'd personally give him until May 2021. Unfortunately I think if we're looming round midtable this January the pressure from the fans will bring the board to sack Jones before he's been able to staple his philosophy. We can't keep sacking managers. Jones knows what he is doing, support him! "We'll be with you every step along the way"I'm with you personally. I think, for me, he gets the rest of this season providing we're not at the arse end of the table come Christmas. I REALLY want to like NJ - and he talks a great game - but his record is exceptionally poor. He needs to drop Allen (leaves gaping holes in our midfield) and I think some of his signings have been poor, as well as his decision making, but he did build a good team at Luton. I'm disappointed that we were promised young, athletic, hungry players and none of his signings have particularly reflected that, but we cannot keep chopping and changing the manager every 5 minutes. It may well be blind faith, but I'm onside... for now.
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Post by abcd1234 on Aug 11, 2019 12:35:28 GMT
I'm all for giving him the time to get it right, but if we lose the next 3 or 4 then his position will become impossible. I do honestly think there is something there with Jones. He's definitely still learning on the job and he's making mistakes along the way (Woods substitution yesterday), but I think there is potentially a great manager in there. A win against Derby is a must though. I'm confident we'll perform against Derby, we normally do well against the better teams. I think a win is a must to though, we just need to take our chances.
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Post by thehoof on Aug 11, 2019 12:37:03 GMT
I agree that we cannot keep sacking managers, but I am intrigued by your comment “Jones knows what he is doing”. In what respect? Is it tactics? If so you would expect something better than 1 win every 8 starts wouldn’t you? Or is it now that he has “his” team, we may see consistency in selection (6 changes yesterday. I will offer you 4 changes minimum for the Derby game)? Is it out fast free flowing football- if so, when will we see 3 goals in a game? When we do , will that be enough given that in our last seven fixtures we have conceded 3 twice and twice four times. He may know what he’s doing, but over 25 games it’s hard to see much forward progress- and a 3-1 defeat is what it says on the tin, however you try and dress it up.
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Post by abcd1234 on Aug 11, 2019 12:40:17 GMT
This thread is for the "supporters" that think giving Jones the boot is a good idea. Here is a prime example of why giving managers time is important; Daniel Farke (Norwich City manager) got appointed boss on the 25th of May 2017. The Norwich fans had really high expectations of promotion for the next season even though this guy was unknown to them.The Norwich fans didn't know how his philosophy of playing 4-2-3-1 would work in the Championship. One year later in May 2018 Norwich finished 16th, they completely under-performed with the players they had and the Norwich fans wanted Farke sacked. Surprisingly the Norwich board backed Farke and decided to give him another season (2018/19). Norwich started poorly in the 18/19 season winning 1 out of their first 5, Farke looked like he was undoubtedly getting the boot. Yet again the board gave him more time, he turned it around and got Norwich promoted as Champions in the same season. I'm not saying the same will happen to Stoke but sometimes it's a good idea to get behind the manager. I think because our last 3 managers have been so crap we've all completely lost confidence in Jones already thinking he'll be like them. I know the stats about Jones and how many wins he's got since taking over and despite all of this i'd personally give him until May 2021. Unfortunately I think if we're looming round midtable this January the pressure from the fans will bring the board to sack Jones before he's been able to staple his philosophy. We can't keep sacking managers. Jones knows what he is doing, support him! "We'll be with you every step along the way"I'm with you personally. I think, for me, he gets the rest of this season providing we're not at the arse end of the table come Christmas. I REALLY want to like NJ - and he talks a great game - but his record is exceptionally poor. He needs to drop Allen (leaves gaping holes in our midfield) and I think some of his signings have been poor, as well as his decision making, but he did build a good team at Luton. I'm disappointed that we were promised young, athletic, hungry players and none of his signings have particularly reflected that, but we cannot keep chopping and changing the manager every 5 minutes. It may well be blind faith, but I'm onside... for now. His record would have been acceptable if we could've defended from winning positions better last season. He doesn't lose too many actually but its just the regular draws that make it seem like that.
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Post by stokeypieman on Aug 11, 2019 12:56:39 GMT
First it was Hughes' fault, then it was Lambert's fault, next Rowett had"no idea". Jones has come in shifted a lot of the deadwood his hands are obviously tied otherwise Dwight Gayle will have been a Stoke player. I say giving him a chance for a couple of weeks isn't good enough, we need to stick by him and his ideas for at least two seasons.
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Post by abcd1234 on Aug 11, 2019 13:00:24 GMT
I agree that we cannot keep sacking managers, but I am intrigued by your comment “Jones knows what he is doing”. In what respect? Is it tactics? If so you would expect something better than 1 win every 8 starts wouldn’t you? Or is it now that he has “his” team, we may see consistency in selection (6 changes yesterday. I will offer you 4 changes minimum for the Derby game)? Is it out fast free flowing football- if so, when will we see 3 goals in a game? When we do , will that be enough given that in our last seven fixtures we have conceded 3 twice and twice five times. He may know what he’s doing, but over 25 games it’s hard to see much forward progress- and a 3-1 defeat is what it says on the tin, however you try and dress it up. Jones does know what he's doing. He's got rid of the dead wood, told some of them to not train with the squad (Bojan, Diouf) e.c.t. He's then replaced them with hungry players like Powell and Gregory who give everything for the club, you know why? Because every play he's signed is taking a step up in joining Stoke. He's lowering the wage bill yet still improving the squad. Now he needs to put it together in the games. The man did wonders for Luton, he knows what he's doing. Jones made a mistake yesterday taking Woods off but if Butland could perform and the players could score from 7 yards things will improve.
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Post by stokie223 on Aug 11, 2019 13:13:06 GMT
I'm with you personally. I think, for me, he gets the rest of this season providing we're not at the arse end of the table come Christmas. I REALLY want to like NJ - and he talks a great game - but his record is exceptionally poor. He needs to drop Allen (leaves gaping holes in our midfield) and I think some of his signings have been poor, as well as his decision making, but he did build a good team at Luton. I'm disappointed that we were promised young, athletic, hungry players and none of his signings have particularly reflected that, but we cannot keep chopping and changing the manager every 5 minutes. It may well be blind faith, but I'm onside... for now. His record would have been acceptable if we could've defended from winning positions better last season. He doesn't lose too many actually but its just the regular draws that make it seem like that. Afraid we'll have to agree to disagree on that point. 3 wins in 24/25 games or whatever it is isn't acceptable, particularly given our transfer/wage budgets compared with other teams in the league. Carry that form out over a full season and you're in league one next year.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2019 13:32:35 GMT
His record here is horrendous. We should have won comfortably yesterday given the chances we had. We are 2 games into the season with some new players not even featured never mind integrated and we still have Etebo to come back and possibly even Ndiaye. There is plenty of time to turn things around.
These are the facts. The time to panic hasn't arrived yet.
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Post by thehoof on Aug 11, 2019 13:34:07 GMT
I agree that we cannot keep sacking managers, but I am intrigued by your comment “Jones knows what he is doing”. In what respect? Is it tactics? If so you would expect something better than 1 win every 8 starts wouldn’t you? Or is it now that he has “his” team, we may see consistency in selection (6 changes yesterday. I will offer you 4 changes minimum for the Derby game)? Is it out fast free flowing football- if so, when will we see 3 goals in a game? When we do , will that be enough given that in our last seven fixtures we have conceded 3 twice and twice five times. He may know what he’s doing, but over 25 games it’s hard to see much forward progress- and a 3-1 defeat is what it says on the tin, however you try and dress it up. Jones does know what he's doing. He's got rid of the dead wood, told some of them to not train with the squad (Bojan, Diouf) e.c.t. He's then replaced them with hungry players like Powell and Gregory who give everything for the club, you know why? Because every play he's signed is taking a step up in joining Stoke. He's lowering the wage bill yet still improving the squad. Now he needs to put it together in the games. The man did wonders for Luton, he knows what he's doing. Jones made a mistake yesterday taking Woods off but if Butland could perform and the players could score from 7 yards things will improve. Are you serious- Gregory and Powell have played one full game each for the club- they may well give their all during their time here, but you cannot say that yet- I’d also hazard a guess that while we may be a step up from Wigan ( who have won the same number of major trophies we have) we are not a step up from Man U (Powell played for them you know?). Improving the squad? We will see- I think some players are definitely improvements, others are no different or worse than what we had.
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Post by fca47 on Aug 11, 2019 13:47:06 GMT
Piling on the pressure so early is just ridiculous. We need some patience.
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Post by Deleted on Aug 11, 2019 14:00:49 GMT
I'm all for giving him the time to get it right, but if we lose the next 3 or 4 then his position will become impossible. Not if we 'copy' Norrich. As explained by the OP.
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Post by abcd1234 on Aug 11, 2019 14:03:50 GMT
Jones does know what he's doing. He's got rid of the dead wood, told some of them to not train with the squad (Bojan, Diouf) e.c.t. He's then replaced them with hungry players like Powell and Gregory who give everything for the club, you know why? Because every play he's signed is taking a step up in joining Stoke. He's lowering the wage bill yet still improving the squad. Now he needs to put it together in the games. The man did wonders for Luton, he knows what he's doing. Jones made a mistake yesterday taking Woods off but if Butland could perform and the players could score from 7 yards things will improve. Are you serious- Gregory and Powell have played one full game each for the club- they may well give their all during their time here, but you cannot say that yet- I’d also hazard a guess that while we may be a step up from Wigan ( who have won the same number of major trophies we have) we are not a step up from Man U (Powell played for them you know?). Improving the squad? We will see- I think some players are definitely improvements, others are no different or worse than what we had. Only time will tell, but I think NJs buys have been good. Atleast if he gets the boot the new guy will have a good set of players to work with.
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Post by wrexhamstokie90 on Aug 11, 2019 14:08:57 GMT
im 100% jones in its just we are getting punished for every mistake at the moment I think a win will do the world of good to these lads
also I think he's getting used to the players like Allen going dm an it not working I don't think that will happen again.. He changed both strikers an it was a lot better upfront yesterday a good win against wigan will be a good start.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Aug 11, 2019 14:09:09 GMT
This thread is for the "supporters" that think giving Jones the boot is a good idea. Here is a prime example of why giving managers time is important; Daniel Farke (Norwich City manager) got appointed boss on the 25th of May 2017. The Norwich fans had really high expectations of promotion for the next season even though this guy was unknown to them.The Norwich fans didn't know how his philosophy of playing 4-2-3-1 would work in the Championship. One year later in May 2018 Norwich finished 16th, they completely under-performed with the players they had and the Norwich fans wanted Farke sacked. Surprisingly the Norwich board backed Farke and decided to give him another season (2018/19). Norwich started poorly in the 18/19 season winning 1 out of their first 5, Farke looked like he was undoubtedly getting the boot. Yet again the board gave him more time, he turned it around and got Norwich promoted as Champions in the same season. I'm not saying the same will happen to Stoke but sometimes it's a good idea to get behind the manager. I think because our last 3 managers have been so crap we've all completely lost confidence in Jones already thinking he'll be like them. I know the stats about Jones and how many wins he's got since taking over and despite all of this i'd personally give him until May 2021. Unfortunately I think if we're looming round midtable this January the pressure from the fans will bring the board to sack Jones before he's been able to staple his philosophy. We can't keep sacking managers. Jones knows what he is doing, support him! "We'll be with you every step along the way"If you’re going to spout stats at least get them right🙄Norwich finished 14th with a record of 15 wins,15 draws and 16 defeats.At this moment in time Nathan can only dream of a record like that.I’m pretty sure if Farke had won 3 out of 23 in that season Delia would have sacked him
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Post by Edward Tattsyrup on Aug 11, 2019 14:15:50 GMT
He has to have at least 10 games, we will then have an idea of where we are. I really believe we need to stick with him, but if we are in the bottom 3 after 10 games the board will have a tough decision to make.
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Post by serpico on Aug 11, 2019 14:16:01 GMT
Piling on the pressure so early is just ridiculous. We need some patience. I agree but people are looking at it as a continuation of last season, when you do that it doesnt make great reading. I know they weren’t his players last season but you’d expect a decent manager to have come in and won more games than jones managed.i haven’t seen anything since he arrived to make me think “this guy knows what he’s doing” I’m unconvinced but willing to give him 10 maybe 12 more games before calling for his head, he’s signed 10 players now so he owns this squad.
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Post by tony1234 on Aug 11, 2019 14:27:03 GMT
He needs some games to show that now he has every tool he has asked for, he can build his team and get it to deliver a good team. He doesn't have carte blanche or unlimited time.
The question is, "what's fair?"
We still have fans expecting the play offs (understandably when NJ and the club have predicted promotion). And we have fans who would be happy to see a foundation built, measurable by an end to decline, effective team and incremental improvement. We even have some offering 2-3 seasons without judgement, it seems.
For me, the landmarks are 10 games to get 10 points. And 20 games to 26 points. That's pretty generous. We shouldn't fire managers nilly willy, but below that, we should be concerned about a relegation fight, which really is not acceptable given the foundations he was given: Let's remember he inherited an underperforming (or still forming) mid table team that had won more games than it had lost until then, and averaging about 1.3pts/game. It was his choice to dismantle that completely and adopt a new system. He has had 20+ games and 2 windows. He needs to show it was right to dismantle that team (rather than just upgrade out 2-3 players with higher quality) and show the diamond allows us to score more, while retaining defensive solidity.
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Post by abcd1234 on Aug 11, 2019 14:28:45 GMT
This thread is for the "supporters" that think giving Jones the boot is a good idea. Here is a prime example of why giving managers time is important; Daniel Farke (Norwich City manager) got appointed boss on the 25th of May 2017. The Norwich fans had really high expectations of promotion for the next season even though this guy was unknown to them.The Norwich fans didn't know how his philosophy of playing 4-2-3-1 would work in the Championship. One year later in May 2018 Norwich finished 16th, they completely under-performed with the players they had and the Norwich fans wanted Farke sacked. Surprisingly the Norwich board backed Farke and decided to give him another season (2018/19). Norwich started poorly in the 18/19 season winning 1 out of their first 5, Farke looked like he was undoubtedly getting the boot. Yet again the board gave him more time, he turned it around and got Norwich promoted as Champions in the same season. I'm not saying the same will happen to Stoke but sometimes it's a good idea to get behind the manager. I think because our last 3 managers have been so crap we've all completely lost confidence in Jones already thinking he'll be like them. I know the stats about Jones and how many wins he's got since taking over and despite all of this i'd personally give him until May 2021. Unfortunately I think if we're looming round midtable this January the pressure from the fans will bring the board to sack Jones before he's been able to staple his philosophy. We can't keep sacking managers. Jones knows what he is doing, support him! "We'll be with you every step along the way"If you’re going to spout stats at least get them right🙄Norwich finished 14th with a record of 15 wins,15 draws and 16 defeats.At this moment in time Nathan can only dream of a record like that.I’m pretty sure if Farke had won 3 out of 23 in that season Delia would have sacked him Alright I got their league position wrong but that doesn't defeat the whole objective of this post. I think the league was stronger in 18/19 than it was in 17/18 yet Norwich finished on 60pts in Farke first season and we finished on 55pts last season, both are as bad as eachother. They gave Farke time and it worked brilliantly, that's why I think NJ just needs time. I'm just praying that he gets it personally.
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Aug 11, 2019 14:34:40 GMT
If you’re going to spout stats at least get them right🙄Norwich finished 14th with a record of 15 wins,15 draws and 16 defeats.At this moment in time Nathan can only dream of a record like that.I’m pretty sure if Farke had won 3 out of 23 in that season Delia would have sacked him Alright I got their league position wrong but that doesn't defeat the whole objective of this post. I think the league was stronger in 18/19 than it was in 17/18 yet Norwich finished on 60pts in Farke first season and we finished on 55pts last season, both are as bad as eachother. They gave Farke time and it worked brilliantly, that's why I think NJ just needs time. I'm just praying that he gets it personally. The championship is strong every season in my opinion and I agree he needs time BUT do I think he’ll get it if the lack of wins continue,no I don’t with Coates saying that promotion is the objective.
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Post by mrpickles on Aug 11, 2019 14:36:11 GMT
I'm all for giving him the time to get it right, but if we lose the next 3 or 4 then his position will become impossible. Not if we 'copy' Norrich. As explained by the OP. I'm with the guy 100% mate, but it would take some coming back from losing the first 6 games of the season, don't you think? I don't see that happening though.
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