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Post by Ron Jeremy on Feb 18, 2009 1:47:08 GMT
Hes doing right now, is this such a problem?
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Post by bostedclog on Feb 18, 2009 3:07:08 GMT
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Post by Soi Cowboy on Feb 18, 2009 7:07:04 GMT
I can't understand why some bloke who writes a book trying to glorify himself ( which he desperately failed to do- legend in his own small mind) doing something dozens of others do is considered news.
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Post by broadwayroundabout on Feb 18, 2009 8:53:59 GMT
Back to the actual topic, i can't see how just talking to the scum of stoke on trent or offering them a youth centre is going to make them start behaving to be honest. The problem with scum is it's usually incredibly thick, meaning trying to reason with it simply doesn't work. If these youths want to cause trouble, they will, it's that simple. Scum doesn't understand actions & consequences. Best sit back and do fcukall about it then eh ?
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Post by Big John RIP on Feb 18, 2009 9:58:56 GMT
Bloody hell give the guys a break dammed if they do damed if they dont. I think if Jaspa and Phil change a few young peoples outlooks on life as a result of this project then they will be doing there bit in giving something back to society.
People change believe it or not. Some of you guys are so far up your own backsides at times.
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Post by meirsquare on Feb 18, 2009 10:04:05 GMT
The bottom line is that these kids are on the wrong path , Don't think anyone can argue that point ? Something needs to be done.... again I think that's quite obvious What's being done at the moment isn't working ..... lot of hard work and a lot of good intent but it isn't working.
This project isn't THE answer...but it is a very valuable part of it.
Like it or lump it kids who are involved on the streets in gangs or anti-social behaviour are far more likely to listen to someone who knows from experience what it's all about , than someone who has a few qualification courses under their belt.
These kids don't trust authority figures , they are suspicious of anyone in authority including youth workers , they will listen and identify with Mark and the lads from Project FREE KICK .
How do I know ?....... Like I said I was there to witness it on Saturday..... the police , youth services , council etc would have never gotten that response.
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Post by swanster on Feb 18, 2009 11:20:13 GMT
The idea of this is to help kids not just in Stoke but around the country.
How are they supposed to make the project a success in Stoke and everywhere else if they don't promote it?
Don't see what the problem is with the coverage tbh.
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Post by meirsquare on Feb 18, 2009 15:27:39 GMT
I can't understand why some bloke who writes a book trying to glorify himself ( which he desperately failed to do- legend in his own small mind) doing something dozens of others do is considered news. Green eyed monster ????
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Post by mark71 on Feb 18, 2009 15:36:15 GMT
To all those people who are saying Jasper shouldn't be doing this kind of thing, can you give me an alternative way to try and steer these youths away from anti social behavior?
Whether this works or it doesn't we won't know unless it is tried.
Also to anyone that is against what he is trying to achieve, what have you done in your local area to try and mentor these youths or to move these youths away from committing anti social acts?
If someone is trying to help rectify a problem that affects us all shouldn't they be congratulated?
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Post by RAF on Feb 18, 2009 15:53:05 GMT
Fuck me there are some pious twats on this board. How can someone trying to make something good out of something bad they did be a bad thing? It's not like he fucking murdered or raped anyone for christ sake. Peter Sutcliffe is due for release soon, why not have a pop at that cunter? H
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Willard
Youth Player
Never get out of the boat. Absolutely goddamn right. Unless you were goin' all the way.
Posts: 257
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Post by Willard on Feb 18, 2009 16:20:29 GMT
spot on RAF
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Post by meirsquare on Feb 18, 2009 16:50:20 GMT
Just checked out the web site , it is obvious that these lads have put a lot of hard work into FREE KICK. Judging by some of the responses on here I bet that they have had to overcome some real negativity and have not got this far overnight. These lads must have taken months to raise their credibility and have stuck to their task. That shows that they mean business and believe in what they are setting out to do. They have not been put off by criticism , or anything else. Take a look at the site , they have been in 10 Downing Street !! That level of recognition doesn't come easily and Mark , Phil and all involved in FREE KICK must have worked damned hard to achieve it. Let's take a good look at ourselves here for a minute , How many of us have concerns over the state of our streets regarding gangs and anti-social behaviour ? and then ask yourselves how many of you have actually done anything about it ???
The club is on board with the project....take a look at the pic of Tony Scholes and Mark Chester..... stop being so narrow minded and short sighted.....
If you read the piece on the club web site recently covering the Downing Street visit you will know that Mark offered a public and private appology to Tony Scholes.
GOOD LUCK FREE KICK !
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Post by stokiegav on Feb 18, 2009 18:18:09 GMT
I was lucky enough to be present at the workshop that was delivered at the Attendance Centre in Hanley on Saturday . The presentation left little or no doubt that Mark and the lads can reach young people who the authorities cannot. It is these so called "hard to reach" young people who are in most danger of losing their futures..... I witnessed these young people actively and positively engaging with the lads who delivered a professional session. Whats more I know for a fact that an offer of payment for this session was refused by those who delivered it..... go figure eh ? fair play - are you there as a service user or as part of the teachers ? first session was always going to be a success as there will be a fair amount of awe and myth surrounding them but what im interested in is that inevitably the kids will test the leaders and it will be fascinating to see how they deal with the kids without responding with violence/intimidation
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Post by stokiegav on Feb 18, 2009 18:23:13 GMT
as stated if it works then who can argue - however the biggest concern has to be that MC is only who he is through his criminal and deeply violent inclinations - not exaclty certain that this is the lesson that vulnerable kids should be taught! largely what kids want is the respect and to no longer feel vulnerable and insecure - becoming a local face in the gang/hooligan scene pretty much gurantees that - whether MC has a program that will successfully counter everything he subcommunicates remains to be seen
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Post by stokiegav on Feb 18, 2009 18:27:04 GMT
The bottom line is that these kids are on the wrong path , Don't think anyone can argue that point ? Something needs to be done.... again I think that's quite obvious What's being done at the moment isn't working ..... lot of hard work and a lot of good intent but it isn't working. This project isn't THE answer...but it is a very valuable part of it. Like it or lump it kids who are involved on the streets in gangs or anti-social behaviour are far more likely to listen to someone who knows from experience what it's all about , than someone who has a few qualification courses under their belt. These kids don't trust authority figures , they are suspicious of anyone in authority including youth workers , they will listen and identify with Mark and the lads from Project FREE KICK . How do I know ?....... Like I said I was there to witness it on Saturday..... the police , youth services , council etc would have never gotten that response. i agree 100% with that
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Feb 18, 2009 18:52:49 GMT
Fuck me this has polarised opinion on here almost as much as the TP debate. Well Ok not quite. However, just like in the TP debate the pros and antis get so far up their own jacksies they can't see common sense.
The posters rimming Chester and his ilk should bear in mind that for a while he was a vicious thug who thought nothing of beating the shit out of another human being for pleasure (the fairytale about only ever fighting like minded neanderthal's is just jackanory. I was there). He is the direct cause of away cards and the horrific reputation Stoke and England fans have suffered for years. Furthermore he has since made money out of glorifying his earlier criminal activity.
However, those 'Mary Whitehouse's' who throw their arms up in horror at someone with a past trying to do some good are equally laughable - Nelson Mandela anyone. Now I'm not comparing the two but Chester should be allowed his attempt to expunge his past and do some good, He might actually have grown up you know. Clearly the modern Criminal Justice and support systems are failing large sections of our youth and a radical approach is needed although I do fear this may be doomed to failure. Without a very costly support system behind them what can these two men do on their own. Where do the kids go when they've been shaken up by Mark Chester. You can ween someone off drugs but throw them straight back into the cess pool they came from and they're back on the gear within days.
I say let them get on with it. I will reserve my judgement, as to whether he is just a self publicising tosser or a man who has genuinely turned over a new leaf and has something to give back to society, until we see the results.
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Post by meirsquare on Feb 18, 2009 21:04:52 GMT
I was lucky enough to be present at the workshop that was delivered at the Attendance Centre in Hanley on Saturday . The presentation left little or no doubt that Mark and the lads can reach young people who the authorities cannot. It is these so called "hard to reach" young people who are in most danger of losing their futures..... I witnessed these young people actively and positively engaging with the lads who delivered a professional session. Whats more I know for a fact that an offer of payment for this session was refused by those who delivered it..... go figure eh ? fair play - are you there as a service user or as part of the teachers ? first session was always going to be a success as there will be a fair amount of awe and myth surrounding them but what im interested in is that inevitably the kids will test the leaders and it will be fascinating to see how they deal with the kids without responding with violence/intimidation I don't understand how you get the impression that the first session was always going to be a success ?? It was not publised beforehand , the whole point of this kind of approach is that the "teachers" as you call them can identify with these kids because they were once those "kids" themselves. They don't want medals , they don't want pats on the back....the publicity at the moment is a tool to heighten awareness of the project and to attract support from the right areas.....when the program is running and the cameras have long gone...this project will still be there.....and there will be kids that will benefit from it.
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Post by meirsquare on Feb 18, 2009 21:05:59 GMT
Fuck me this has polarised opinion on here almost as much as the TP debate. Well Ok not quite. However, just like in the TP debate the pros and antis get so far up their own jacksies they can't see common sense. The posters rimming Chester and his ilk should bear in mind that for a while he was a vicious thug who thought nothing of beating the shit out of another human being for pleasure (the fairytale about only ever fighting like minded neanderthal's is just jackanory. I was there). He is the direct cause of away cards and the horrific reputation Stoke and England fans have suffered for years. Furthermore he has since made money out of glorifying his earlier criminal activity. However, those 'Mary Whitehouse's' who throw their arms up in horror at someone with a past trying to do some good are equally laughable - Nelson Mandela anyone. Now I'm not comparing the two but Chester should be allowed his attempt to expunge his past and do some good, He might actually have grown up you know. Clearly the modern Criminal Justice and support systems are failing large sections of our youth and a radical approach is needed although I do fear this may be doomed to failure. Without a very costly support system behind them what can these two men do on their own. Where do the kids go when they've been shaken up by Mark Chester. You can ween someone off drugs but throw them straight back into the cess pool they came from and they're back on the gear within days. I say let them get on with it. I will reserve my judgement, as to whether he is just a self publicising tosser or a man who has genuinely turned over a new leaf and has something to give back to society, until we see the results. And you aren't up your own jacksie ????
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Feb 18, 2009 21:40:26 GMT
Maybe. But I'd rather have pompous. Sounds grander. I take it you don't disagree with what I say though?
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Post by meirsquare on Feb 18, 2009 21:42:06 GMT
Back to the actual topic, i can't see how just talking to the scum of stoke on trent or offering them a youth centre is going to make them start behaving to be honest. The problem with scum is it's usually incredibly thick, meaning trying to reason with it simply doesn't work. If these youths want to cause trouble, they will, it's that simple. Scum doesn't understand actions & consequences. Really consructive and intelligent debating skills on show in this comment....... how can you get on your soap box and call every kid who has made a mistake or has offended when young "scum" What are you....some kind of saint ...??? I would sooner spend my time trying to reach one of those kids than waste it on a pious , idiotic , idiot like you. You really are a moron !!!
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Post by meirsquare on Feb 18, 2009 21:46:19 GMT
Maybe. But I'd rather have pompous. Sounds grander. I take it you don't disagree with what I say though? I'm not going to be drawn into commenting on Mr Chester's past , he has appologised to the club..face to face to the Chief Exec at the ground , he has appologised in the paper.....he is actually doing something about an issue that concerns us all. If he can use his experiences to deter others from making the same mistakes.....what's wrong with that ?
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Post by Laughing Gravy on Feb 18, 2009 21:56:03 GMT
I think if you read my post, rather than jumping down my throat with a smart arse remark, I actually acknowledge that if he is doing this for purely altruistic reasons then fair play to him and he will get my full support. Forgive me though in view of his "previous" for being a little sceptical until we see some results. I'm sure if Mark Chester is the man you say he is he would have expected that response from the majority of people anyway and will be able to overcome it. See thats definately more "pompous" than "up jacksie".
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Post by stokiegav on Feb 18, 2009 22:22:53 GMT
fair play - are you there as a service user or as part of the teachers ? first session was always going to be a success as there will be a fair amount of awe and myth surrounding them but what im interested in is that inevitably the kids will test the leaders and it will be fascinating to see how they deal with the kids without responding with violence/intimidation I don't understand how you get the impression that the first session was always going to be a success ?? It was not publised beforehand , the whole point of this kind of approach is that the "teachers" as you call them can identify with these kids because they were once those "kids" themselves. They don't want medals , they don't want pats on the back....the publicity at the moment is a tool to heighten awareness of the project and to attract support from the right areas.....when the program is running and the cameras have long gone...this project will still be there.....and there will be kids that will benefit from it. Because Ive worked in this area and whenever you get speakers who are famous - the first session goes perfectly because the kids are in awe of them and their reputation -an effect something that it is fair to say that MC will have (witness the lad on here saying he would def go cos of it) - the next session is always a slighly different ball game as the effect wears off and the kids become more accustomed to the environment and the dominant ones who want to be the next MC will test him (and you if you are a "teacher") - as i said - if he has renounced violence and that is what he is teaching - im interested - from a purely professional point of view - in how he will respond and on the teacher thing - ill hold my hands up lol - I couldnt think of the word - and still cant - is it facilitator? nb - when i said success - i meant the effect it had on the kids - did you mean media and the publics perception etc?
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Post by myleftboot on Feb 18, 2009 22:36:41 GMT
They have my full support I know that. Like I said any community project aimed at bettering peoples lives and helping to improve the growing problems with rebellious youth is a good thing.
I was having a look at the website last night and to be honest a lot of work has gone into this at the expensive of time and money.
Good luck with it lads if you read this board.
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Post by Soi Cowboy on Feb 18, 2009 22:42:04 GMT
I agree with your post Chinese re everything apart from calling him intelligent. He's about as intelligent as a carrot
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Post by meirsquare on Feb 18, 2009 23:01:09 GMT
I think if you read my post, rather than jumping down my throat with a smart arse remark, I actually acknowledge that if he is doing this for purely altruistic reasons then fair play to him and he will get my full support. Forgive me though in view of his "previous" for being a little sceptical until we see some results. I'm sure if Mark Chester is the man you say he is he would have expected that response from the majority of people anyway and will be able to overcome it. See thats definately more "pompous" than "up jacksie". I think you were the one who made the "smart arse remark" with the genralisation of how everybody else was up their own jacksies. I am sure that there is a structured program in place to follow on from the introductory session that was delivered on Saturday , which will be aimed at keeping these kids engaged. I think that the secret is to be able to connect with them on their level first and foremost , I would love to get involved in this project but I am realistic enough to understand that I would not be able to connect with the kids in the way that Mark and the lads did. If you were involved in this area once ..... I am sure that you would have to agree that you too would struggle to do likewise , no matter how noble your intentions were. Simply because the kids would not view you as on their level ?
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Post by Dave the Rave on Feb 18, 2009 23:06:33 GMT
Back to the actual topic, i can't see how just talking to the scum of stoke on trent or offering them a youth centre is going to make them start behaving to be honest. The problem with scum is it's usually incredibly thick, meaning trying to reason with it simply doesn't work. If these youths want to cause trouble, they will, it's that simple. Scum doesn't understand actions & consequences. Really consructive and intelligent debating skills on show in this comment....... how can you get on your soap box and call every kid who has made a mistake or has offended when young "scum" What are you....some kind of saint ...??? I would sooner spend my time trying to reach one of those kids than waste it on a pious , idiotic , idiot like you. You really are a moron !!! You wouldn't need to spend time trying to reach someone like me though, because i'm not a scumbag who thinks violence and anti social behaviour is acceptable like most decent folk. Are you trying to say this scum deserves time and effort? People who knowingly inflict pain and suffering on others without a second thought or any form of remorse are scum. Although obviously not in your world.
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Post by meirsquare on Feb 18, 2009 23:15:16 GMT
I don't understand how you get the impression that the first session was always going to be a success ?? It was not publised beforehand , the whole point of this kind of approach is that the "teachers" as you call them can identify with these kids because they were once those "kids" themselves. They don't want medals , they don't want pats on the back....the publicity at the moment is a tool to heighten awareness of the project and to attract support from the right areas.....when the program is running and the cameras have long gone...this project will still be there.....and there will be kids that will benefit from it. Because Ive worked in this area and whenever you get speakers who are famous - the first session goes perfectly because the kids are in awe of them and their reputation -an effect something that it is fair to say that MC will have (witness the lad on here saying he would def go cos of it) - the next session is always a slighly different ball game as the effect wears off and the kids become more accustomed to the environment and the dominant ones who want to be the next MC will test him (and you if you are a "teacher") - as i said - if he has renounced violence and that is what he is teaching - im interested - from a purely professional point of view - in how he will respond and on the teacher thing - ill hold my hands up lol - I couldnt think of the word - and still cant - is it facilitator? nb - when i said success - i meant the effect it had on the kids - did you mean media and the publics perception etc? I should imagine that the press coverage has been useful to the project in as much as it lets people in the right areas and agencies know that the project is actually out there and attracts support and backing. I agree that the proof must be in the pudding though and that the project should be judged on it's results.....on how it benefits the young people who will be involved. I disagree that the first session was bound to be a success though , first time up in front of young people who are hard to keep focused and could be disruptive , first time delivering in a classroom environment , sounds like putting it on the line to me. I have Read the info they handed out .... they look to have a program , not just a couple of sessions , they have DJ sessions lined up , Creative Writing , Music , Street Dance, training opportunities leading to employment opportunities , boxing sessions with Scott Lawton , and have attracted some celebrity support too from the likes of Simon Pegg and Ricky Hatton. It all sounds very viable and well organised.... they have obviously been well advised so must have people on board with some experience in the area. Like I say....GOOD LUCK LADS
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Post by Dave the Rave on Feb 18, 2009 23:18:39 GMT
Boxing sessions with Lawton?
Jesus wept, let's teach the little thugs how to properly twat someone before they steal their wallet or purse. Great Idea.
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Post by meirsquare on Feb 18, 2009 23:22:17 GMT
Really consructive and intelligent debating skills on show in this comment....... how can you get on your soap box and call every kid who has made a mistake or has offended when young "scum" What are you....some kind of saint ...??? I would sooner spend my time trying to reach one of those kids than waste it on a pious , idiotic , idiot like you. You really are a moron !!! You wouldn't need to spend time trying to reach someone like me though, because i'm not a scumbag who thinks violence and anti social behaviour is acceptable like most decent folk. Are you trying to say this scum deserves time and effort? People who knowingly inflict pain and suffering on others without a second thought or any form of remorse are scum. Although obviously not in your world. No one in their right mind thinks that violence and anti social behaviour is acceptable..... What I said is that you are on a soap box preaching that every young kid who has made a mistake or offended should be written off as scum. Not one of us is without a mistake mate.... you included. Take a long hard look at yourself , get off your soap box and join the real world..... some of these kids can be reached , I am certain of that..... yet you would write them off as scum . They are a product of the same society as you and me.... or is it that you were of immaculate conception with your saintly disposition.
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