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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 12, 2009 1:06:25 GMT
Cheers Paul, I'm pleased that you recognise a superior intellect, so just keep on watching the Sunday morning stuff, it's not really football, but it probably satisfies your idea of "the beautiful game", who knows? you could be salivating over D.K next season, it's abourt his level ;D Pushon, as I appear to be the only Paul (with a tag anyway) in this thread, I assume that your post is aimed at me. Unfortunately I haven't really understood what you're trying to say, would you mind maybe rewording it slightly? Many thanks.
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Post by pushon on Jan 12, 2009 1:08:26 GMT
Not really,if you don't get it now you probably never will.
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Post by pushon on Jan 12, 2009 1:18:18 GMT
Stokiehead, earlier on this thread, says it all for me.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 12, 2009 3:05:25 GMT
Not really,if you don't get it now you probably never will. Well if you change your mind pushon, I'm more than happy to engage you in any meaningful discussion that you might wish to have in the future.
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Post by pushon on Jan 12, 2009 10:18:30 GMT
Sorry Paul, but if you still haven't grasped the rudiments of the diversity of opinion on this thread, I'm afraid I can't be bothered to attempt to explain it to you. I do, though, trust you will soon be successful in finding a group of peers, where meaningful discussions are regularly held. Perhaps you could debate whether or not diverse opinions should be allowed, or should the view of the "group" be forced upon those with the temerity to voice a contradictory opinion of their own. Apologies, but I haven't the time to check the spelling, I'm off to start digging another hole.
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Post by Gob Bluth on Jan 12, 2009 10:57:11 GMT
I disagree Dazzer, I was not impressed with Kitson. He didn’t ‘run his socks off’, he ‘jogged his socks off’. I’m not going to pass judgement on his ability yet re him not scoring but I’m really not happy with how he applies himself during matches. He lacks any real aggression and seems to spend most of his time looking for free-kicks.
I fail to see on his current form what he adds to the team over Cresswell who we are all in agreement isn’t Premiership quality. There was a player who did run his socks off and challenge for everything, the only problem being were his poor passing however against Liverpool he did very well in the air. The amount of times Cresswell passed the ball to Liverpool could be outnumbered by the times Kitson gave up ‘running’ for a ball by prancing towards the ball.
Finally if I carry on with the comparison can we really say that from what we have seen in a Stoke shirt Kitson is more deadly than Cresswell? I feel that due to the price tag people are giving him more time than other players and making excuses for him, although I agree Kitson shouldn’t be heavily judged on ability just yet but this approach should be fair and carried out for all members of the squad; Seyi, Amdy Faye and Cresswell included.
Just as a small point I only care how players perform in a Stoke shirt and judge them on these performances, I have little thought of how they’ve performed previously for other clubs. So because Kitson scored for Reading in the Premiership doesn’t mean he will do the business for Stoke especially if he isn’t going to apply himself.
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Post by bossthemidfield on Jan 12, 2009 11:02:29 GMT
were now all proud of shitKitson but now Fuller is a complete bastard who needs to go some people need to get a perspective Hmmm, first time I have seen a comment like that about Fuller (could be wrong), whilst I don’t want to steal this thread about Kits, I just thought I’d mention that a few fans that I have had conversations with over the weekend have said that they think Fuller thinks he’s bigger than the club!
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Post by monsoonmoon on Jan 12, 2009 11:09:49 GMT
Kits put in a good shift on Saturday, for me. There was a passage of play which highlighted why he's having a struggle. Rory won the ball after coming together with Mascherano, and carried it into their half. Had have looked up he would've seen Kits' peeling off Carragher and in plenty of room. A simple lofted diagonal ball would've set him through, into the clear.
He was clearly there to hold the line on Saturday. If he runs around like a madman, and we gain the ball then he won't be in a position to do his job as he won't be there to give the options to midfield or the supporting striker.
The only problem I've got is how he seems to be beating himself up. I think he's putting too much pressure on himself to get that goal. His head seems down if something goes wrong, and he seems to be carrying the world on his shoulders right now.
Different players need different amounts of time to adjust. Drogba took a season and everyone was writing him off as the worst Premiership buy after his first season. Second season he's got settled and he's on-form. Kitson will ocme good - if given the service, time and position plays in. I think every player deserves that.
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Post by pushon on Jan 12, 2009 11:40:38 GMT
Monsoonmoon, I see the merit in your view of Kitsons performance on Saturday. I'm afraid my own point of view is shaded by frustration and a fear of relegation. The analagy with Drogba is well made, but Chelski were not in a similar perilous league position to ourselves. They had time on their side,and, although I can't remember who, will have had an "adequate" alternative. At this time, the only goal threat we seem to have from open play is Ric, but his perceived occasional push of the "self destruct button" is a major concern. "I'd love it, really love it" if Kitson shoved my doubts up my fat orifice. But it has to start now, next game, we don't have the time left to indulge him any longer.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 12, 2009 12:06:30 GMT
Sorry Paul, but if you still haven't grasped the rudiments of the diversity of opinion on this thread, I'm afraid I can't be bothered to attempt to explain it to you. I do, though, trust you will soon be successful in finding a group of peers, where meaningful discussions are regularly held. Perhaps you could debate whether or not diverse opinions should be allowed, or should the view of the "group" be forced upon those with the temerity to voice a contradictory opinion of their own. Apologies, but I haven't the time to check the spelling, I'm off to start digging another hole. Pushon you made a claim that football hadn't changed at all over the last few decades, I and a few others then added some posts to the thread demonstrating how we believed it actually had. You then made a reply to me that appeared to have absolutely no bearing on the discussion in hand. I didn't understand your reply, and I quite politely asked you, if you wouldn't mind rewording it, in order that I could make a response. Your reply back to this, was to say the you basically couldn't be arsed to do so. That's what happened in this thread Pushon. And for your information I have regularly stood up for people on this board when their opinion has been shouted down without proper discussion, whether I agreed with them or not.
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Post by pushon on Jan 12, 2009 12:26:46 GMT
Touche Paul, thanks for your succinct interpratation (sp?)of the facts. Taking it any further though, seems to have no point to me. I'm more interested in the "point-scoring" of the team than fencing on this board,I have no interest in changing your mind about anything. I'll just keep on voicing my opinion, right or wrong, as and when I feel it's fitting to do so.
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Post by th05 on Jan 12, 2009 12:28:38 GMT
He tried his hardest yeh, it must be so frustrating for him as it just won't click at the moment.
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Post by Paul Spencer on Jan 12, 2009 12:34:12 GMT
Touche Paul, thanks for your succinct interpratation (sp?)of the facts. Taking it any further though, seems to have no point to me. I'm more interested in the "point-scoring" of the team than fencing on this board,I have no interest in changing your mind about anything. I'll just keep on voicing my opinion, right or wrong, as and when I feel it's fitting to do so. I was actually attempting to change your mind Pushon. Following some of the responses on this thread, would you now consider that the modern game has actually changed from the one we watched a few decades ago?
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Post by RAF on Jan 12, 2009 12:56:01 GMT
More inane, uninformed tripe from the brainless Plymouth fan!
H
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Post by pushon on Jan 12, 2009 13:02:21 GMT
Paul, I think I've already admitted somewhere that facilities, fitness of players and pace of the game, have moved on. But it's still football, 11 v 11 and all that stuff,still organised into leagues etc, the "Laws of the Game" haven't been radically altered either. It's the fashion/style of play that alters from time to time, so when I say it's still the same game, I mean in it's intentions and long may it remain so. That's it from me on this subject Over and out.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 12, 2009 13:02:55 GMT
I was proud and impressed with Kits on Saturday. We need to keep singing his name, it will help to get the best out of him.
I think a fit Kits would have scored the chance when he went round the keeper and he was unlucky with his glancing header (very good movement for that chance). He will only get better with the addition of Matty and the return to fitness of Lenny.
If we have a front line of Mama, Fuller, Kits and Beattie (2 from 4) with the width of Lenny and Matty I can see us going from strength to strength.
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Post by lew86 on Jan 12, 2009 13:02:57 GMT
Kits did have a few good tries and an overall good game which left me pleased and impressed.
My only concern is that, we can keep saying he just needs that one goal, but how long can we keep saying it. Granted he's been injured over the last few months, but what about the start of the season?
I'm a fan of kits dont get me wrong but it concerning me that he hasnt yet scored. I know he wants it, you can see it on the lads face, but we need it sooner rather than later.
Was great to have a roaring "one dave kitson" when he was subbed.
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Post by Fred Ferret on Jan 12, 2009 13:09:29 GMT
Whats so easy to forget - those of you criticising Kitson on the thread is tha : hes just back from long term injury and, he was playing agaisnt some of the very top defences in Europe, if not the world. He is just not, nor never will be a Cresswell - 'run round like a headliess chicken' type player - hes a striker in a lean spell, thats easy to see. yet - go on ! keep giving him stick chaps ! - those of you thick enough to fail to recognise such broader aspects As for me -I thought he led the line very well for the most part last night -and, was a credit to our club- and very unlucky not to score. This comment needs to be flagged again - to keep those silly views in perspective. Kitson's had bugger all service from the midfield since the day he arrived. How can anyone consider that he has had a fair crack of the whip.
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Post by lew86 on Jan 12, 2009 13:14:18 GMT
Whats so easy to forget - those of you criticising Kitson on the thread is tha : hes just back from long term injury and, he was playing agaisnt some of the very top defences in Europe, if not the world. He is just not, nor never will be a Cresswell - 'run round like a headliess chicken' type player - hes a striker in a lean spell, thats easy to see. yet - go on ! keep giving him stick chaps ! - those of you thick enough to fail to recognise such broader aspects As for me -I thought he led the line very well for the most part last night -and, was a credit to our club- and very unlucky not to score. This comment needs to be flagged again - to keep those silly views in perspective. Kitson's had bugger all service from the midfield since the day he arrived. How can anyone consider that he has had a fair crack of the whip. Is something I failed to mention, with Matty and Liam at full capacity hopefully he'll get some good delivery, god knows he game close satdee! GOARN KITS!
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Post by lordb on Jan 12, 2009 13:24:33 GMT
????
I guess people see what they want to see
Kitson worked very very hard for the team imho,compare & contrast with Fullers attitude 90% of the time.
he made two/three lay offs from balls dropping out of the sky that none of our other forwards can do.
agree his confidence is low re scoring goals & at the end of the day thats his priority
I think too may Stokies write players off too early.I seem to remember Mark Stein not scoring in his first 10 or so games - & this in a side dominating the opposition,copared to one living on scraps - & he ended up scoring zillions.
Kitson needs a goal & then he will get some more failrly quickly,Its a scenario that been played out in football time & time again. Unlike e.g. Pericard who clearly hasnt the talent Kitson is a good player who has proved himself at Reading to be a good goalscorer.
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Post by mikeyb99 on Jan 12, 2009 19:41:29 GMT
Just checked the board for the first time since Saturday ...
Got to say I thought Kitson was dire, I can't see how people can say he had anything other than a typically mediocre outing. I agree entirely with Gob Bluth on this one - Kitson seemed to stroll around the pitch for the entirety of the 89-minutes, showing a complete disinterest in the game, and, to be honest, a complete lack of desire.
I think the best thing about having Kitson on the pitch on Saturday was that it allowed Cresswell to put in his best performance in a red-and-white shirt IMO - not only did he show his usual workrate, determination, and committment, he actually looked an effective striker. Kitson was played as the no.1 striker against Liverpool, something many have been calling for, with a winger and having Cresser taking all the pressure off him for workrate - and we still couldn't get a performance out of him.
So credit where credit is due to Cresser - and shame on you Dave Kitson. I can honestly say that if it wasn't for the (uncharacteristically) patient Stoke support this season, Kitson would have been rightly hounded-out of the club by now for a lack of committment.
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Post by RAF on Jan 12, 2009 20:09:46 GMT
Yes shame on you Kitson for putting in a sound performance even though you are clearly not 100% yet.
Well done Mikey for the most ridiculous statement of the day. You clearly watched a different game than most on here.
H
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Post by mumf14 on Jan 12, 2009 20:13:18 GMT
RAF...WAS WRONG...
Most of us on here realise what little idea you have with regards to football, as your famous "RAF WAS WRONG" clearly proves...
Clueless .!!!
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Post by mikeyb99 on Jan 12, 2009 20:14:15 GMT
You clearly watched a different game than most on here. Clearly. Sorry for not donning the ultra rose-tinted specs that makes me happy-clap Kitson's feeble 'efforts'. The stats don't lie - 0 goals all season, missing a gilt-edged chance (again) on Saturday.
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Post by mumf14 on Jan 12, 2009 20:16:23 GMT
Proud of this:
0...The computer says noooooo!
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Post by RAF on Jan 12, 2009 21:13:30 GMT
mumf I don't expect anything more or less from a Plymouth supporting Stoke hater such as yourself. Your pathetic two faced stance against Kitson negates any argument you ever have when suggesting the manager or other players should be given a chance. You truly have no clue about football in general. Do yourself and everyone else on this board a favour and fuck off.
H
Well I'd rather wait until he is 100% and played in the right position like he was on Saturday before damning him so completely. He has scored well at this level unlike some of our players and I don't think it's too much to ask to give him a fair crack. It's fuck all to do with rose tinted specs, I've seen the guy score in the Prem.
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luigiscfc
Academy Starlet
^^Probably the Greatest Football Stand in The World..!^^
Posts: 183
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Post by luigiscfc on Jan 12, 2009 21:18:57 GMT
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Post by cotswoldstokie on Jan 12, 2009 22:43:41 GMT
Kitson will come good I've seen enough to know he is a good player and his record before joining Stoke stands up to review. Look at some of his passes that give others chances three v Rotherham and the pass that gave Cresswell an opening in the Liverpool game was sublime. Etherington looks great too a good debut his pace everything we have needed and lacked in the first half of the season and I am buzzing at beatties signing with more quality to come. Fuller needs to change his attitude or else he's the makeweight and Vince will be gone soon too. Ric has left himself down and the one thing Stoke need is team spirit once that is gone we will struggle so come on Ric!
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