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Post by TheWiseMaster on Jan 8, 2009 16:25:46 GMT
RAF
Sadly most of what you are saying is claptrap repeated by the many people with an agenda against Pulis
Pulis has acknowledged that he is not a fan of the modern Academy format believing the boys are cushioned from reality. However that doesn’t stop him appreciating talent – he genuinely liked Commons as he did his Hooky
Commons was tapped up and I can detail the negotiations as I had a first hand account from another manager who also wanted Commons There were sweeteners but the basic salary paid by Forest was little more than the final offer from Stoke. Unfortunately that final offer came after the die had been cast
The Icelanders totally handled the negotiations as is the norm at most clubs – the managers don’t get involved. Gislason spelled it out himself
I don’t blame the Icelanders – they just didn’t have the money or the football nouse – overall they did well for the club
Trying to pin it on the hated Pulis as this thread is doing is frankly nothing short of vindictive
PS Pulis regularly plays the young Shawcross as he can do the job
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Post by crimesy on Jan 8, 2009 16:32:14 GMT
.. or perhaps Pulis' thought he was getting good money for a player that nobody rates? Why does he have to be good if he has gone to manure?
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Post by RAF on Jan 8, 2009 16:35:13 GMT
I'm sorry you can't handle the facts Paul. This came from TP himself, something along the lines of 'I was not prepared to be blackmailed with wage demands, but I was upset Commons refused to wait for another offer before deciding to go to Forest, we tried our best to keep him'
Have you conveniently forgotten that? He never mentioned restrictions form the icelanders, and it was definitely Pulis doing the negotiations with Commons. Whether Commons was tapped up or not, Pulis left it too late and it had fuck all to do with lack of funds from the Icelanders.
I appreciate you like the bloke but trotting out that party line of 'Pulis hating' has absolutely fuck all to do with it.
H
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Post by mcf on Jan 8, 2009 16:41:55 GMT
RAF Does it really matter? At the end of the day, Pulis made the right decision as we didn't miss him ie we ended up promoted, Forest relegated. All's well that ends well.
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Post by RAF on Jan 8, 2009 16:49:38 GMT
Absolutely Merk I agree, it's worked out for the best absolutely. To be honest I was one of the ones that wasn't that arsed that he went in the end, I just won't have the Icelanders blamed for something that wasn't down to them.
H
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Post by headsgoup on Jan 8, 2009 18:49:19 GMT
Pulis is a disgrace and has to go. Talk about not having an eye for talent. Lets look at some of the gems picked up by Ferguson's "eye for talent" Kleberson Miller Djemba Djemba Taibi Poborsky Bellion Cruyff Forlan You forgot Veron. Near on 30 million wasted on him. ;D
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Post by headsgoup on Jan 8, 2009 19:08:15 GMT
quote] Now we have statesidestokie saying Fergie can't spot talent. I wonder how he won all those trophies with Aberdeen and Manchester United. Let's get this straight once and for all! Ferguson won fuck all for United before the Premership came into being. The premeirship was designed for the rich clubs only. The playing field isn't level any more and the likes of Leeds, Forest, Derby, Everton will never win the top league again He came within a hare's breath of being sacked after four seasons of failure. He got lucky...very lucky. He has consistantly sold better players that he's bought, but with the enormous amount of cash he can spend even he he can get something right sometimes.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2009 19:11:03 GMT
quote] Now we have statesidestokie saying Fergie can't spot talent. I wonder how he won all those trophies with Aberdeen and Manchester United. Let's get this straight once and for all! Ferguson won fuck all for United before the Premership came into being. The premeirship was designed for the rich clubs only. The playing field isn't level any more and the likes of Leeds, Forest, Derby, Everton will never win the top league again He came within a hare's breath of being sacked after four seasons of failure. He got lucky...very lucky. He has consistantly sold better players that he's bought, but with the enormous amount of cash he can spend even he he can get something right sometimes. Sorry, as much as I agree with your overall sentiments, that's bollocks. He was on thin ice until he won the FA Cup, that much is true. He'd already won the FA Cup and Cup Winners' Cup before the Premiership, and he won the Prem in its first season. Much of their success in the nineties wasn't down to spending power, but rather their awesome youth team, including the Nevilles, Butt, Giggs, Beckham etc..
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Post by Pugsley on Jan 8, 2009 19:14:36 GMT
quote] Now we have statesidestokie saying Fergie can't spot talent. I wonder how he won all those trophies with Aberdeen and Manchester United. Let's get this straight once and for all! Ferguson won fuck all for United before the Premership came into being. The premeirship was designed for the rich clubs only. The playing field isn't level any more and the likes of Leeds, Forest, Derby, Everton will never win the top league again He came within a hare's breath of being sacked after four seasons of failure. He got lucky...very lucky. He has consistantly sold better players that he's bought, but with the enormous amount of cash he can spend even he he can get something right sometimes. That's about as straight as a 3 pound note. One word - Aberdeen. Ferguson is a tremendous manager end of story. Anyone who thinks otherwise knows fuck all about football. Even a mediocre manager like Pulis recognizes it.
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Post by kingdeano on Jan 8, 2009 19:22:42 GMT
alan key- do you know anything about football??? fergie got lucky??? yeah he got that bloody lucky the twat has won everything their is to be won. in my eyes he is the best manager of all time. yes he is a twat nobody can deny that but the success he has had is second to none.
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Post by Titan Uranus on Jan 8, 2009 19:24:50 GMT
not being funny, but isn't it ... hairs breadth ?
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Post by whelan_6 on Jan 8, 2009 19:40:25 GMT
personally i'd rather have experienced players than risk younger ones at the minute,when would have been an ideal time to throw him in un tried last season? or this?
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Post by TheWiseMaster on Jan 8, 2009 21:48:55 GMT
Commons Contract
Stoke City have offered Kristian Commons a lucrative contract to remain with The Potters and are now awaiting his decision.
The 20-year-old is out of contract this summer, and the club are keen to retain his services rather than lose him for a cut-price fee.
City chairman Gunnar Gislason feels their offer is highly enticing and is hoping the Nottingham-born youngster will put pen-to-paper.
"We are now waiting for him to respond," said Gislason. "We think he's got a very good deal and we think he should accept it.
"But I don't know what his agent wants. I think it is in Kris's interests to accept, but maybe not his agent's.
"We shall just have to see whose interests win out.
"Is it a good contract? Put it this way, if he does accept then he will be on much higher wages than me in my job back home."
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The other major proble with Commons you may recall was that KC wanted a clause in his contract where effectively he set the level of any future transfer fee. This would guarantee that KC could move at a low fee anytime it suited and therefore claim a substantial signing on fee. Gislason refused to sanction this clause until the very last minute - when he accepted the clause
I don't blame Gislason at all for Common's move. KC was set on lining his own pocket. The only mistake GG may have made was not to make his best offer very early on in the negotiations
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Post by greyman on Jan 8, 2009 22:27:58 GMT
That's great Paul. And of course Pulis never spent the best part of a season telling season ticket holders to go fuck themselves while he played his games, did he? Nor did he ever want the academy shut down.
He's done a great job in many ways, but not in others has he?
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Post by winger on Jan 8, 2009 22:30:06 GMT
What's happened to your avatar?
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Post by Lakeland Potter on Jan 8, 2009 22:38:08 GMT
Have any of the people who suggest we have somehow lost a good player in De Laet ever seen him play? I've seen him play for the reserves and he was poor. I'm no expert on young players (far from it) but his touch was poor and he seemed lightweight. Now, I may have caught him on a bad day but he doesn't seem to have pulled up any trees at Wrexham when he was on loan - certainly not in the same way that Ryan Shotton has on loan first at Alty and now at Tranmere.
I don't know the ins and outs of this transfer but I bet it is more to do with some agreement between ourselves and ManU at the time de Laet came to England than anything to do with de Laet's form over the past 18 months.
If De Laet goes on to prove me wrong and makes the grade as a Premiership player I'll be proved wrong but, based on what I saw of him, I don't think that will happen.
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Post by greyman on Jan 8, 2009 22:46:47 GMT
You're almost certainly right John. But then again anybody who thinks that Anthony Pulis, Vincent Pericard and Jeff Whitley are better players than Adam Vass, Martin Paterson and Karl Henry is probably wrong too.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 8, 2009 22:47:57 GMT
You're almost certainly right John. But then again anybody who thinks that Anthony Pulis, Vincent Pericard and Jeff Whitley are better players than Adam Vass, Martin Paterson and Karl Henry is probably right too. Weren't Vass, Paterson and Henry all offered new contracts?
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Post by TheWiseMaster on Jan 8, 2009 23:26:52 GMT
Yes they were all offered contracts
Mark
I've never said that Pulis doesn't have faults (who doesn't). He is in a brutal job in which only those who look after themselves will survive - nice it aint
This thread wasn't about character but in the main about blaming Pulis for letting so many slip away. Now he may have some responsibility for them all - but he isn't alone and almost certainly does not negotiate contracts. That doesn't mean that he doesn't of course talk to players about new contracts etc
Pulis is 100% focused on the need to survive with his team and personally. His interest isn't in developing young players but if they are good enough and fit into his set up then he will play them
Some people would like him to spread his interest but if he keeps us up he knows that he keeps his job (and will be your hero lol) - that is what he is about - like it or not
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Post by mcf on Jan 9, 2009 7:09:10 GMT
Wise one
Ignore grey man
He's like a shopkeeper that spends 99% of his time cleaning his front window
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Post by TheWiseMaster on Jan 9, 2009 8:15:31 GMT
mcf I feel duty bound to counter this constant strem of dross the real problem is that there are a flock of PHW's sitting on the fence waiting for the slightest excuse to dredge out their bile As you can see above - when they lose one arguement some totally unrelated alleged misdeed pops up Doesn't the statute of limitations (?) cover these people
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Post by greyman on Jan 9, 2009 10:19:43 GMT
I agree with that Paul. It is about survival and my opinion of Pulis remains. Much better manager than I thought, complete cunt. We've been fortunate over the past couple of seasons that he hasn't let the latter aspect of his character get the better of the former. But that hasn't always been the case and I still can't warm to him. Never will.
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Post by RAF on Jan 9, 2009 10:22:57 GMT
Don't talk about dross when you trot the above steaming pile out Paul. One of the real problems is that some people can never and will never accept that Pulis has made mistakes. I mean look at the quote above. It seems to me for the Pulisters that he is to be congratulated at every turn when we sign a decent player, but when one turns out to be shit, then it wasn't him who did the negotiations and was not given the funds.
Well now he has , and lets face it he hasn't spent wisely, but I suppose you could always say it was Coates and Scholes's fault because according to you they do the negotiations.
While you are at it, what is this totally unrelated misdeed you speak of?
H
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Post by TheWiseMaster on Jan 9, 2009 10:26:43 GMT
Mark Don't know if I'd want him to join my family either! I tried to speak to him once to offer congratulations - and he didn't want to know - will I ever forgive him He's a strange character but he most certainly inspires loyalty and graft in his players - and that will do for me if it works
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Post by RipRoaringPotter on Jan 9, 2009 10:31:33 GMT
I still haven't forgiven Pulis for letting Goodfellow go.
Pulis out.
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Post by TheWiseMaster on Jan 9, 2009 10:35:16 GMT
RAF I have given you Gislason statement on Commons above! I was talking to Mark about the misdeeds - he has a whole store chest full of the evidence Of course Pulis makes mistakes - some of his signings have been dire this season - in part because he/they leave it so late Overall if we get enough points he has done a good job whether you like him or not - and no youth developments aint his priority
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Post by winger on Jan 9, 2009 10:36:28 GMT
* I tried to speak to him once to offer congratulations - and he didn't want to know - will I ever forgive him * You have to Pulis credit where it's due: He can spot a Mentalist stalker approaching him in the blink of an eye.
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Post by TheWiseMaster on Jan 9, 2009 10:38:54 GMT
yeh - it was when I puckered my lips that he fled
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Post by RAF on Jan 9, 2009 10:46:22 GMT
I've read it, and it doesn't mean anything. It certainly doesn't prove that TP had no hand in negotiations. Absolutely, and wouldn't expect youth policy to be his priority as he clearly thinks it's a waste of money at this club. It has nothing to do with liking the man, as you say he's a bizarre creature, and one as I've seen first hand who can also be quite affable (although it seems not with you ) and humerous. What I have always disliked about the man is his inability to admit when he is or has been wrong and some of his totally mental team selections. You know what, I would warm to the man if he just said in public he dropped a bollock with Periwinkle. It isn't going to happen though, but let's face it, he won't give a flying fuck what I , or many others think anyway. H
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Post by Do eet fer Paddock on Jan 9, 2009 11:39:13 GMT
Slagging off Pulis for the De Laet deal is stupid. It's deal I can't really understand, or for that matter give a shit about. He was doing nothing for us, so ship him out sems best for player and us. The fact that he's gone to Man Ure is a bit perplexing, but good luck to him.
Puglsey, I really can't understand why you're bothering getting het up about it.
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