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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Apr 22, 2024 11:43:36 GMT
So we're back to what someone decides over the actually lines that show if you're offside of not . He was just a bit offside so will let it ride or not. Good idea in principle but not every decision will be interpreted the same Several people have suggested making it so the whole of your body has to be offside, that would be better Is the rule that needs looking at No one has really come up with a reasonable solution over the offside or not rule we currently have Not sure on your point there, Lorders š
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Post by noustie on Apr 22, 2024 11:53:29 GMT
For VAR, they should be allowed to view footage once - if its not immediately clear there's been a balls up, the on field decision stands. So we're back to what someone decides over the actually lines that show if you're offside of not . He was just a bit offside so will let it ride or not. Good idea in principle but not every decision will be interpreted the same Is the rule that needs looking at No one has really come up with a reasonable solution over the offside or not rule we currently have Scrap offsides but there is a sniper on the roof of the main stand armed with tranquillizer darts to punish goal hanging and the dose gets stronger for serial offenders during the season.
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Apr 22, 2024 12:01:27 GMT
So we're back to what someone decides over the actually lines that show if you're offside of not . He was just a bit offside so will let it ride or not. Good idea in principle but not every decision will be interpreted the same Is the rule that needs looking at No one has really come up with a reasonable solution over the offside or not rule we currently have Scrap offsides but there is a sniper on the roof of the main stand armed with tranquillizer darts to punish goal hanging and the dose gets stronger for serial offenders during the season. They had a 35 yard line in the NASL and it worked great. Was talk of using it at the 82 WC. Wish they had.
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Apr 22, 2024 12:03:46 GMT
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Post by noustie on Apr 22, 2024 12:03:47 GMT
Scrap offsides but there is a sniper on the roof of the main stand armed with tranquillizer darts to punish goal hanging and the dose gets stronger for serial offenders during the season. They had a 35 yard line in the NASL and it worked great. Was talk of using it at the 82 WC. Wish they had. I'd like see it in operation as bet that would open the pitch up instead of it being compact lines/ watching training drills.
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Apr 22, 2024 12:04:52 GMT
They had a 35 yard line in the NASL and it worked great. Was talk of using it at the 82 WC. Wish they had. I'd like see it in operation as bet that would open the pitch up instead of it being compact lines/ watching training drills. Exactly what happened. Teams were playing high offside lines and it prevented it
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Post by dirtygary69 on Apr 22, 2024 12:09:45 GMT
The FA always band on about VAR to be used for āclear and obvious errorsā from the on field decisions. Take the Coventry goal in its factual state: What was the on field decision - Goal and no offside flagged Did the Lino make a clear and obvious error - review footage and offside line. Is the player clearly and obviously offside that should have been identified by the on field official? In this case no Can a clear and obvious mistake be justified? Not in the case of Coventry goal so should stand. Now flip that scenario to the Forest penalties and you get a different outcome. Instead VAR is being used to scrutinise every goal to find a way to disallow, rather than to catch clear and obvious errors on the field Itās a broken system in terms of its application The "clear and obvious" is not applied for offside decisions. The linesman didn't raise his flag (and never do now) because they know they have VAR to bail them out either way. It looks miles on based on the video taken at Wembley from the other side, but you can't see Wan Bissaka's starting position on it.
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Post by kidcrewbob on Apr 22, 2024 12:21:49 GMT
It's an absolute fucking disgrace - no flag, no hint of offside from the ref or the liner - Utd players knew it was a goal and that they had been beaten by their reaction despite a couple of automatic hands-in-the-air appealing by the flat footed donkeys in their defence...... I hope City absolutely tear them another one in the final - although that's through gritted teeth as well given their appalling FFP indictments - it will be a game I won't be watching though - I'm done with it - Sky subcription can fuck off as well - I'm not paying good money to see this corrupt and uncompetitive farce of a game at the supposed "top" level - it's shit...... and so is the international game - another I won't be watching this summer.....
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Post by PotterLog on Apr 22, 2024 12:22:44 GMT
Spot on - it's a great fucking con to keep the big six up there or thereabouts - never mind the crayon thick lines on a poxy TV screen - what about the point of release from the forward pass - no-one ever challenges at exactly what point this was deemed to be effective - you'd need a 1000 FPS facility to get that perfectly right - anyhow its a load of bollcocks and as others have said it's ruining the game for a lot of us - offside was all about preventing "goal hanging" as we used to call it and being "level" was always onside and it was always meant to favour the attacking side when it was close......now it's just looking to deny for the sake of it - and it's still fucking subjective if they have to have half a dozen folk and 6 camera angles to pour over a decision for 4 minutes or whatever - just mental. Coventry (and more widely we - the great unwashed - were robbed yesterday and the so-called magic of the cup well and truly asphyxiated - they just had to keep the shit in it at any cost ......... Absolutely spot fucking on ā¦ā¦.!!!!! I have very mixed feelings about VAR and I can see both sidesā¦ however one thing nobody has ever explained is how it supposedly benefits the big clubs, or even just attacking teams, as someone suggested earlier on. Theyāre just as likely to be on the wrong end of a marginal decision as benefit from one, I donāt understand what the argument is supposed to be
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Post by PotterLog on Apr 22, 2024 12:27:31 GMT
For VAR, they should be allowed to view footage once - if its not immediately clear there's been a balls up, the on field decision stands. So we're back to what someone decides over the actually lines that show if you're offside of not . He was just a bit offside so will let it ride or not. Good idea in principle but not every decision will be interpreted the same Is the rule that needs looking at No one has really come up with a reasonable solution over the offside or not rule we currently have Exactly, the only way VAR would be changed for offsides is if the authorities around the world suddenly said āoh sorry itās not as accurate as we thought actuallyā. Which aināt gonna happen. If the tech is there to make the right decision, itās basically impossible to argue for disregarding it to introduce more subjectivity. On changing the offside law as a response to VAR, thatās also a non-starter because 99% of matches played donāt use it.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Apr 22, 2024 12:32:10 GMT
It's an absolute fucking disgrace - no flag, no hint of offside from the ref or the liner - Utd players knew it was a goal and that they had been beaten by their reaction despite a couple of automatic hands-in-the-air appealing by the flat footed donkeys in their defence...... I hope City absolutely tear them another one in the final - although that's through gritted teeth as well given their appalling FFP indictments - it will be a game I won't be watching though - I'm done with it - Sky subcription can fuck off as well - I'm not paying good money to see this corrupt and uncompetitive farce of a game at the supposed "top" level - it's shit...... and so is the international game - another I won't be watching this summer..... Never ever gets ruled out at the other end Fergie and Howard in perfect harmony here working at their very best , the vilest institution in sport simply revolting again again and again .
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Apr 22, 2024 12:32:58 GMT
Absolutely spot fucking on ā¦ā¦.!!!!! I have very mixed feelings about VAR and I can see both sidesā¦ however one thing nobody has ever explained is how it supposedly benefits the big clubs, or even just attacking teams, as someone suggested earlier on. Theyāre just as likely to be on the wrong end of a marginal decision as benefit from one, I donāt understand what the argument is supposed to be Not sure if still are but Brighton had benefitted the most from VAR until last season at least Folk focus on the big club decisions more
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Post by GrahamHyde on Apr 22, 2024 12:33:50 GMT
It was brought in to get rid of controversy, but it's done the exact opposite. Most of the calls are still heavily inconsistent and subjective, all it's done has protect the officials on the pitch to the point where the linesmen might as well not even turn up.
The thing that annoys me the most is that it's ruined the game for the match going fan. All of it is designed for the armchair casual who watches the matches on TV, like most things these days.
The whole thing stinks, and then you've got the pundits and television media on the Premier League's payroll and seemingly silenced or forced to peddle this blatant propaganda around it (until it affects their own clubs, of course).
The absolute joy of a last minute winner taken away for the sake of such an inconclusive call - literally centimeters in it at most.
It's football for geeks. Not in my name.
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Post by GrahamHyde on Apr 22, 2024 12:40:33 GMT
If it was down to me I'd just leave the goal line technology and scrap the rest of it.
If you are going to keep it though: 1. Let linesmen do their jobs again 2. Fuck the drawings off and have audible microphone discussion in the stadium 3. Go by eye (like with the forward pass in rugby) 4. If inconclusive after 1-2 viewings at most (in real-time), stick with the original on-field decision
The officials have lost all accountability. The key to VAR is in the ASSISTANT part. It's not assisting at this point, it's the primary referee.
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Post by kidcrewbob on Apr 22, 2024 12:44:51 GMT
It was brought in to get rid of controversy, but it's done the exact opposite. Most of the calls are still heavily inconsistent and subjective, all it's done has protect the officials on the pitch to the point where the linesmen might as well not even turn up. The thing that annoys me the most is that it's ruined the game for the match going fan. All of it is designed for the armchair casual who watches the matches on TV, like most things these days. The whole thing stinks, and then you've got the pundits and television media on the Premier League's payroll and seemingly silenced or forced to peddle this propaganda around it. The absolute joy of a last minute winner taken away for the sake of such an inconclusive call - literally centimeters in it at most. It's football for geeks. Not in my name. Spot on - can you imagine us being 3-0 down to come back to 3-3 then have a perfectly legitimate goal chalked off in the last minute to deny the deserved victory and giant-killing to end all giant killing - and furthermore allowed to think that it was the case for several minutes, the ref and liner having done nowt to object - it's all about the big club domination & preservation of the status quo, the TV rights, the betting and those that lurk in the shadows.......its all about da money and they can shove it for me now.....
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Post by noustie on Apr 22, 2024 13:03:28 GMT
Apparently the ref waited until the penalty appeal to blow for a foul on the Celtic defender in the build up a good few seconds earlier - presumably playing advantage in case Celtic broke from their own box!
The only surprise really is it didn't result in a penalty to Rangers.
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Post by spitthedog on Apr 22, 2024 13:04:21 GMT
Absolutely miles onside. Both staggering and sickening. Also shows how dysfunctional and inaccurate those lines are that they draw from random angles and use to make decisions. How many other VAR offside goals have been legitimate? This has to be a nail in the coffin for the way it is currently operated. The whole thing has not been thought out at all.
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Post by spitthedog on Apr 22, 2024 13:27:39 GMT
I have very mixed feelings about VAR and I can see both sidesā¦ however one thing nobody has ever explained is how it supposedly benefits the big clubs, or even just attacking teams, as someone suggested earlier on. Theyāre just as likely to be on the wrong end of a marginal decision as benefit from one, I donāt understand what the argument is supposed to be Not sure if still are but Brighton had benefitted the most from VAR until last season at least Folk focus on the big club decisions more The way that this was calculated (i.e. who benefited from VAR) itself was questionable I seem to remember. It was quite selective in its use of data.
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Post by noustie on Apr 22, 2024 13:32:53 GMT
Absolutely miles onside. Both staggering and sickening. Also shows how dysfunctional and inaccurate those lines are that they draw from random angles and use to make decisions. How many other VAR offside goals have been legitimate? This has to be a nail in the coffin for the way it is currently operated. The whole thing has not been thought out at all. This fucker for a start: Originally given as a foul then UEFA announced 10 minutes later it was given as offside but never saw the lines.
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Apr 22, 2024 13:33:34 GMT
Not sure if still are but Brighton had benefitted the most from VAR until last season at least Folk focus on the big club decisions more The way that this was calculated (i.e. who benefited from VAR) itself was questionable I seem to remember. It was quite selective in its use of data. Would have to be to be fair Is a myth that the top teams get the decisions. The smaller teams decisions tend go under the radar.
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Post by superjw on Apr 22, 2024 13:37:14 GMT
Thing is, the FA and officials are all in with it. Canāt see much other than a doubling down on VAR personally. Too much vested interest and too much money involved no doubt.
The only way to save the game is to remove VAR entirely and stick with goal line technology until a time comes where VAR can be system driven and be as robust as goal line tech is
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Post by PotterLog on Apr 22, 2024 13:39:19 GMT
Absolutely miles onside. Both staggering and sickening. Also shows how dysfunctional and inaccurate those lines are that they draw from random angles and use to make decisions. How many other VAR offside goals have been legitimate? This has to be a nail in the coffin for the way it is currently operated. The whole thing has not been thought out at all. Ffs can you be sensible.. itās a moving, low-angle shot of the action where you canāt even see the players in question at the point the ball is played - look at the proper wide shot of the pitch with the lines on the grass, heās clearly not āmiles onsideā. All that clip shows is how deceptive a particular camera angle can be. Itās sad and itās cruel for Cov, and thereās a debate to be had about whether this is what the rule was meant for and how VAR should be applied, but unfortunately the bloke was offside.
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Post by noustie on Apr 22, 2024 13:43:32 GMT
Trust in it is blown out of the water and it just seems open to being able to leverage a preferred outcome - as soon as you suspect the other side would have got a different verdict then it's done.
Instead of avoiding controversy it just seems to have added another hurdle to protect the big boys from losing v diddies.
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Post by maxplonk on Apr 22, 2024 13:48:06 GMT
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Post by march4 on Apr 22, 2024 14:15:55 GMT
Just seen an article in the Daily Mail questioning where the line was drawn. If it can be shown it was in the wrong place it just adds to the doubts about VAR.
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Apr 22, 2024 14:22:36 GMT
VAR correctly prevented Man City from winning a CL final with a clear offside
With so much at stake there has to be some kind of technology used.
The idea of the lines touching a good suggestion above.
If less than say half a yard I could agree with VAR as long as used quickly. Would have to be something that flags it instantly though . You could post the results quicker than some of these
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Post by vinnyoverson on Apr 22, 2024 14:30:55 GMT
There are some rather large snags with VAR but the conversation isnāt helped by those presenting āevidenceā such as this on SM. People saying he was offside (or not) on the basis of this phone footage are clearly grasping at straws. The players in question (Wright and Wan Bissaka) are not even in shot when the ball is played by OāHare. Where they are situated when Wright receives the ball is irrelevant.
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Post by Seymour Beaver on Apr 22, 2024 14:47:39 GMT
It was always going to ruin the game ' however we should never forget that prior to VAR pundits, players, managers and some fans were whinging after every decision they didn't like that we needed to make more use of technology.
Well now we do and they're still fucking whingeing.
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Post by spitthedog on Apr 22, 2024 15:10:04 GMT
It was always going to ruin the game ' however we should never forget that prior to VAR pundits, players, managers and some fans were whinging after every decision they didn't like that we needed to make more use of technology. Well now we do and they're still fucking whingeing. Thats because the authorities are so incompetent when it comes to applying the bloody technology. They have not thought about its application in any real detail in their rush to get it implemented. So many aspects of it are badly thought out. Don't get me started on the use of still shots and slow-mo on challenges when making decisions on 'sending offs'
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Post by emretezzy on Apr 22, 2024 15:25:24 GMT
Absolutely miles onside. Both staggering and sickening. Also shows how dysfunctional and inaccurate those lines are that they draw from random angles and use to make decisions. How many other VAR offside goals have been legitimate? This has to be a nail in the coffin for the way it is currently operated. The whole thing has not been thought out at all. Ffs can you be sensible.. itās a moving, low-angle shot of the action where you canāt even see the players in question at the point the ball is played - look at the proper wide shot of the pitch with the lines on the grass, heās clearly not āmiles onsideā. All that clip shows is how deceptive a particular camera angle can be. Itās sad and itās cruel for Cov, and thereās a debate to be had about whether this is what the rule was meant for and how VAR should be applied, but unfortunately the bloke was offside. Take your first paragraph. Reverse it and your absolutely right. They use dodgy angles, never precisely when the ball is kicked. The lines are like my 3 year old has drew them with a marker pen. It's a fucking shambles and I guarantee we are in the midst of widespread corruption. Its fucking baffling people have one ounce of defense for it. That Scotland goal above is a prime example of screwing a lower team to the benefit of a larger one. On no planet would Spain have had that goal disallowed. Until its done by an independent body with over 100s of cameras proving factually its off. They can fuck right off
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