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Post by clintonbaptiste on Apr 22, 2024 8:14:08 GMT
The Coventry offside is simply too close to call and I don't give a fuck how many digital lines they throw at it. The goal should've stood and Cov should've enjoyed one of the biggest wins in their history. The game is being ruined, lets have goal line technology and fuck the rest off.
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Post by skemstokie on Apr 22, 2024 8:25:33 GMT
I've said it before, but the offside law needs to be changed so that if any part of you, that can score/play on legally, is onside then you are onside. I think the law should be to gain a unfair advantage,this drawing lines and talking of millimetres is just crazy. Perhaps even AI could be used instead of actual humans which would remove any possible biased decisions which Nuno has raised after the Everton match.
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Post by skemstokie on Apr 22, 2024 8:25:53 GMT
I've said it before, but the offside law needs to be changed so that if any part of you, that can score/play on legally, is onside then you are onside. I think the law should be to gain a unfair advantage,this drawing lines and talking of millimetres is just crazy. Perhaps even AI could be used instead of actual humans which would remove any possible biased decisions which Nuno has raised after the Everton match.
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Post by gogogadget on Apr 22, 2024 8:26:47 GMT
The Coventry offside is simply too close to call and I don't give a fuck how many digital lines they throw at it. The goal should've stood and Cov should've enjoyed one of the biggest wins in their history. The game is being ruined, lets have goal line technology and fuck the rest off. I don’t understand the timing of the lines At what point of the interaction between the ball and foot determines the point the lines are active The ball spends a variable amount of time in contact with the foot due to varying reasons, ball compression, types of pass, because of this, how can they call such a close one as yesterday, and many more throughout the season I don’t believe they can be that accurate,
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Post by Stretfordpotterer on Apr 22, 2024 8:27:42 GMT
There is no way in hell that the lino doesn’t raise his flag immediately if there is no VAR. It’s human nature. He’s not going to allow a potentially offside goal against that lot in the 120th minute of a cup semi final. He flags it off, the goal is never scored, Cov never get the chance to have a definitive decision made. Simple as that. I don’t like the fact that you can’t celebrate anymore but there are ways round that. Surely it’s not beyond the wit of man to develop a clear signal for the lino to give that shows everyone it’s tight and it’s going to VAR while play is still ongoing. I suspect you're right, but before VAR linesmen were ordered to favor the attacking team if they were unsure. They changed the offside rules to suit VAR. Same with handball. That's why it needs to be fucked off. It changes thing that didn't need changing. Did they ever favour the attacking team really though? Never felt like it. They would always be tempted to flag if they were unsure. Way less controversy around an early offside flag raised wrongly than a goal awarded wrongly. All they ever really favoured was the bigger team.
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Post by emretezzy on Apr 22, 2024 8:30:27 GMT
The Coventry offside is simply too close to call and I don't give a fuck how many digital lines they throw at it. The goal should've stood and Cov should've enjoyed one of the biggest wins in their history. The game is being ruined, lets have goal line technology and fuck the rest off. I don’t understand the timing of the lines At what point of the interaction between the ball and foot determines the point the lines are active The ball spends a variable amount of time in contact with the foot due to varying reasons, ball compression, types of pass, because of this, how can they call such a close one as yesterday, and many more throughout the season I don’t believe they can be that accurate, Spot on! Until you can get a camera with milliseconds of still and determine for FACT it has left the boot at that precise moment it's as accurate as a liner guessing real time. With the technology as it is, at best it can determine glaring errors and that is it. There is no way of saying that was on or offside yesterday with the current technology. I think a decent liner in real time has that as just on.
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Post by noustie on Apr 22, 2024 8:39:33 GMT
The Coventry offside is simply too close to call and I don't give a fuck how many digital lines they throw at it. The goal should've stood and Cov should've enjoyed one of the biggest wins in their history. The game is being ruined, lets have goal line technology and fuck the rest off. The big question for me is if you swap the strips in this situation around and it's Man United scoring in the last minute - with 100% certainty can anyone say with confidence Man United would have been given offside in the last minute scoring a winner? If the answer is 'no' then the system is a bogey.
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Post by noustie on Apr 22, 2024 8:41:46 GMT
There's a simple rule change they could make whereby if the lines are touching then it is onside as too close to call.
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Post by idle on Apr 22, 2024 8:42:36 GMT
I suspect you're right, but before VAR linesmen were ordered to favor the attacking team if they were unsure. They changed the offside rules to suit VAR. Same with handball. That's why it needs to be fucked off. It changes thing that didn't need changing. Did they ever favour the attacking team really though? Never felt like it. They would always be tempted to flag if they were unsure. Way less controversy around an early offside flag raised wrongly than a goal awarded wrongly. All they ever really favoured was the bigger team. They still favor the bigger team, only they now do it with the help of technology. But it all comes back to the decision timing. It's much easier to accept a decision made by one man thet it decided in milliseconds than waiting several minutes for a decision that's no better. VAR has raised expectations without raising the competency of the referees. As someone else says, within a few years we'll have a result being annulled because of a close VAR call, either by the courts or by by the corrupt CAS.
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Post by clintonbaptiste on Apr 22, 2024 8:46:51 GMT
The Coventry offside is simply too close to call and I don't give a fuck how many digital lines they throw at it. The goal should've stood and Cov should've enjoyed one of the biggest wins in their history. The game is being ruined, lets have goal line technology and fuck the rest off. I don’t understand the timing of the lines At what point of the interaction between the ball and foot determines the point the lines are active The ball spends a variable amount of time in contact with the foot due to varying reasons, ball compression, types of pass, because of this, how can they call such a close one as yesterday, and many more throughout the season I don’t believe they can be that accurate, Exactly. The FA always banged the drum that VAR would be available to stop obvious errors. That yesterday was ridiculous.
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Post by louis11 on Apr 22, 2024 8:48:12 GMT
The Coventry offside is simply too close to call and I don't give a fuck how many digital lines they throw at it. The goal should've stood and Cov should've enjoyed one of the biggest wins in their history. The game is being ruined, lets have goal line technology and fuck the rest off. I don’t understand the timing of the lines At what point of the interaction between the ball and foot determines the point the lines are active The ball spends a variable amount of time in contact with the foot due to varying reasons, ball compression, types of pass, because of this, how can they call such a close one as yesterday, and many more throughout the season I don’t believe they can be that accurate, Absolutely bang on. I have been going on about this since VAR started. The end result is so precise but the start of the action (when the ball leaves a foot) cannot be precise. Between a toe poke and a kick with the instep including the foot travelling with the ball for a millisecond, how do you exactly determine when the ball leaves the foot. In all of the discussion on VAR, the fact this important aspect is never discussed baffles me
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Post by kidcrewbob on Apr 22, 2024 8:56:42 GMT
The Coventry offside is simply too close to call and I don't give a fuck how many digital lines they throw at it. The goal should've stood and Cov should've enjoyed one of the biggest wins in their history. The game is being ruined, lets have goal line technology and fuck the rest off. Spot on - it's a great fucking con to keep the big six up there or thereabouts - never mind the crayon thick lines on a poxy TV screen - what about the point of release from the forward pass - no-one ever challenges at exactly what point this was deemed to be effective - you'd need a 1000 FPS facility to get that perfectly right - anyhow its a load of bollcocks and as others have said it's ruining the game for a lot of us - offside was all about preventing "goal hanging" as we used to call it and being "level" was always onside and it was always meant to favour the attacking side when it was close......now it's just looking to deny for the sake of it - and it's still fucking subjective if they have to have half a dozen folk and 6 camera angles to pour over a decision for 4 minutes or whatever - just mental. Coventry (and more widely we - the great unwashed - were robbed yesterday and the so-called magic of the cup well and truly asphyxiated - they just had to keep the shit in it at any cost .........
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Post by mallorcanstokie on Apr 22, 2024 9:15:51 GMT
It’s not VAR that’s the problem…. It’s the ones who operate it.. it should be brilliant for ‘clear and obvious decisions’….. if offside isn’t obvious, it’s deemed as level so any advantage goes to attacking team, who still have to score…..
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Post by spitthedog on Apr 22, 2024 9:22:49 GMT
It’s not VAR that’s the problem…. It’s the ones who operate it.. it should be brilliant for ‘clear and obvious decisions’….. if offside isn’t obvious, it’s deemed as level so any advantage goes to attacking team, who still have to score….. Its inconceivable that anyone could look at that and conclude that it is definitely offside. I have looked at it so many times now (not just for 5 minutes) and I just cant see how they came to that conclusion which some kind of influence.
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Apr 22, 2024 9:25:55 GMT
You're either offside or you're not
If you start giving the benefit, where do you draw the line ( no joke intended)
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Apr 22, 2024 9:27:09 GMT
Did they ever favour the attacking team really though? Never felt like it. They would always be tempted to flag if they were unsure. Way less controversy around an early offside flag raised wrongly than a goal awarded wrongly. All they ever really favoured was the bigger team. They still favor the bigger team, only they now do it with the help of technology. But it all comes back to the decision timing. It's much easier to accept a decision made by one man thet it decided in milliseconds than waiting several minutes for a decision that's no better. VAR has raised expectations without raising the competency of the referees. As someone else says, within a few years we'll have a result being annulled because of a close VAR call, either by the courts or by by the corrupt CAS. Did the handball favour the big team? Huge call and not a pen for me
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Post by kerouac on Apr 22, 2024 9:28:43 GMT
I detest VAR….. it’s definitely ruining the game, we got by for over a century and a half without it,there will be mistakes of course and the abusing of officials but so what,we get over it and carry on. What was interesting in yesterday’s match was the apparent glossing over of the decision. It’s usually talked about in minute detail, they’ve got what they wanted, though, a Manc derby final, so fuck the rest.
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Post by spitthedog on Apr 22, 2024 9:31:27 GMT
You're either offside or you're not If you start giving the benefit, where do you draw the line ( no joke intended) Thats not true when the evidence presented is so inconclusive and ambiguous. There are so many questions over how this was applied. Whether the line used is accurate (I don't think it is) and the angle used distorts the reality (the angle and its application is not reliable) Why the photo used for decision making is not consistent with when the ball is actually kicked. The lino decided it wasn't offside so that seems alot more dependable in this case. at least he was actually more in line with play. VAR wasn't.
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Post by spitthedog on Apr 22, 2024 9:34:06 GMT
They still favor the bigger team, only they now do it with the help of technology. But it all comes back to the decision timing. It's much easier to accept a decision made by one man thet it decided in milliseconds than waiting several minutes for a decision that's no better. VAR has raised expectations without raising the competency of the referees. As someone else says, within a few years we'll have a result being annulled because of a close VAR call, either by the courts or by by the corrupt CAS. Did the handball favour the big team? Huge call and not a pen for me It has to be a pen, the ball is heading towards the goal and the hand stops it is its tracks. Also didn't the ref give it?.... so it would have been almost impossible for VAR to overturn that.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Apr 22, 2024 9:46:14 GMT
Even looking at how they drew the line it doesn't look offside. That sort of thing just shouldn't be offside
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Post by skip on Apr 22, 2024 9:46:59 GMT
You're either offside or you're not If you start giving the benefit, where do you draw the line ( no joke intended) Thats not true when the evidence presented is so inconclusive and ambiguous. There are so many questions over how this was applied. Whether the line used is accurate (I don't think it is) and the angle used distorts the reality (the angle and its application is not reliable) Why the photo used for decision making is not consistent with when the ball is actually kicked.The lino decided it wasn't offside so that seems alot more dependable in this case. at least he was actually more in line with play. VAR wasn't. The crux of the matter is the use of a 'photograph' to determine on or offside. It is impossible to determine the decisive moment when the ball was played and the receiving player moved. It's a dynamic team sport not a man jumping over a puddle at the Gare du Nor. Regardless of club loyalty or bias, any football fan watching that knows that Coventry were denied the greatest FA Cup semi final comeback in history (other decisions within the game prior to this offside are moot).
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Apr 22, 2024 9:49:14 GMT
Did the handball favour the big team? Huge call and not a pen for me It has to be a pen, the ball is heading towards the goal and the hand stops it is its tracks. Also didn't the ref give it?.... so it would have been almost impossible for VAR to overturn that. No don't agree. Can overturn that. No reason can't be overturned . Not a handball for me. That goes the other way and the ref accused of pandering to Man U
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Post by prestwichpotter on Apr 22, 2024 10:01:17 GMT
The Coventry offside is simply too close to call and I don't give a fuck how many digital lines they throw at it. The goal should've stood and Cov should've enjoyed one of the biggest wins in their history. The game is being ruined, lets have goal line technology and fuck the rest off. I agree. Although he's millimetres offside, how do we know that's the exact moment the ball left the foot of O'Hare as it doesn't look that clear to me?
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Post by adri2008 on Apr 22, 2024 10:09:52 GMT
For VAR, they should be allowed to view footage once - if its not immediately clear there's been a balls up, the on field decision stands.
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Post by moon on Apr 22, 2024 10:14:22 GMT
The Coventry offside is simply too close to call and I don't give a fuck how many digital lines they throw at it. The goal should've stood and Cov should've enjoyed one of the biggest wins in their history. The game is being ruined, lets have goal line technology and fuck the rest off. I agree. Although he's millimetres offside, how do we know that's the exact moment the ball left the foot of Hare as it doesn't look that clear to me? I think they need to change the rules, but there will always be cases that are right on the limit at which point default to umpires call / soft signal as per cricket. This offside decision spoilt what was the greatest FA cup comeback I’ve ever seen, but at least it was studied and the rules applied - however controversial and ambiguous they may be. The decisions in the Everton vs Forest game are more controversial for me, the ones that weren’t even looked at.
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Post by Marc01 on Apr 22, 2024 11:11:06 GMT
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Post by superjw on Apr 22, 2024 11:34:30 GMT
The FA always band on about VAR to be used for “clear and obvious errors” from the on field decisions. Take the Coventry goal in its factual state:
What was the on field decision - Goal and no offside flagged Did the Lino make a clear and obvious error - review footage and offside line. Is the player clearly and obviously offside that should have been identified by the on field official? In this case no
Can a clear and obvious mistake be justified? Not in the case of Coventry goal so should stand.
Now flip that scenario to the Forest penalties and you get a different outcome.
Instead VAR is being used to scrutinise every goal to find a way to disallow, rather than to catch clear and obvious errors on the field
It’s a broken system in terms of its application
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Apr 22, 2024 11:40:34 GMT
For VAR, they should be allowed to view footage once - if its not immediately clear there's been a balls up, the on field decision stands. So we're back to what someone decides over the actually lines that show if you're offside of not . He was just a bit offside so will let it ride or not. Good idea in principle but not every decision will be interpreted the same Is the rule that needs looking at No one has really come up with a reasonable solution over the offside or not rule we currently have
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Post by lordb on Apr 22, 2024 11:42:25 GMT
For VAR, they should be allowed to view footage once - if its not immediately clear there's been a balls up, the on field decision stands. So we're back to what someone decides over the actually lines that show if you're offside of not . He was just a bit offside so will let it ride or not. Good idea in principle but not every decision will be interpreted the same Several people have suggested making it so the whole of your body has to be offside, that would be better Is the rule that needs looking at No one has really come up with a reasonable solution over the offside or not rule we currently have
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Post by kerouac on Apr 22, 2024 11:43:22 GMT
The Coventry offside is simply too close to call and I don't give a fuck how many digital lines they throw at it. The goal should've stood and Cov should've enjoyed one of the biggest wins in their history. The game is being ruined, lets have goal line technology and fuck the rest off. Spot on - it's a great fucking con to keep the big six up there or thereabouts - never mind the crayon thick lines on a poxy TV screen - what about the point of release from the forward pass - no-one ever challenges at exactly what point this was deemed to be effective - you'd need a 1000 FPS facility to get that perfectly right - anyhow its a load of bollcocks and as others have said it's ruining the game for a lot of us - offside was all about preventing "goal hanging" as we used to call it and being "level" was always onside and it was always meant to favour the attacking side when it was close......now it's just looking to deny for the sake of it - and it's still fucking subjective if they have to have half a dozen folk and 6 camera angles to pour over a decision for 4 minutes or whatever - just mental. Coventry (and more widely we - the great unwashed - were robbed yesterday and the so-called magic of the cup well and truly asphyxiated - they just had to keep the shit in it at any cost ......... Absolutely spot fucking on …….!!!!!
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