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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Mar 6, 2024 11:36:35 GMT
The problem is we've got ourselves in a situation where a run of bad luck/playing well and losing will see us go down. Certainly playing well improves our chances of staying up but we actually need more than that - in fact we'd be better off playing badly and winning. If we don't want to rely on luck we need to turn performances into results.
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Post by PotterLog on Mar 6, 2024 11:39:18 GMT
Nobody is celebrating a defeat though mate Just saying how much improved we are especially against a Leeds side at home Fair enough Mark, I read the OP and sounded like people were happy with it. And in fairness I've seen the odd post referencing it being a good result etc (only 1-0). We just need to be careful of slipping into this dark place of being comfortable with defeats because that ends one way. In terms of analysing performance, I think we're definitely looking better than we were 10 days ago at Cardiff. We do seem to have this weird trait of raising our game against better sides. Even under Oneil and Neil. Huge game at Preston. We need something there. In the last five minutes on the wireless Ange certainly made it seem like she felt we’d got some kind of a result. At one point she said “don’t do anything stupid now Stoke.” Absolutely bonkers The second half was encouraging and gave cause for some level of hope but it doesn’t make any difference to the nil points and the loss of ground at the end of the day.
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Post by spitthedog on Mar 6, 2024 11:40:09 GMT
The problem is we've got ourselves in a situation where a run of bad luck/playing well and losing will see us go down. Certainly playing well improves our chances of staying up but we actually need more than that - in fact we'd be better off playing badly and winning. If we don't want to rely on luck we need to turn performances into results. A part of me is getting a bit of deja vu with the Lambert era in the Prem which is giving me the jitters. Most of us thought we had improved as a team but we were still losing games, couldn't score goals and generally not doing enough to stay up! Please tell me I'm just a pessimistic old bugger!! The frustrating thing is based on the last 2 games we are easily good enough to stay up.
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Post by gingerninja on Mar 6, 2024 11:40:35 GMT
No doubt under SS we are more pleasing on the eye than probably any manager since since we got relegated, but our lack of a decent and natural left back or striker, I feel will continue to haunt us. If M'waee is still popular amongst the group and said all the right things to the manager, he has to play if fit, he's our best all round striker option..
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Mar 6, 2024 11:48:45 GMT
The problem is we've got ourselves in a situation where a run of bad luck/playing well and losing will see us go down. Certainly playing well improves our chances of staying up but we actually need more than that - in fact we'd be better off playing badly and winning. If we don't want to rely on luck we need to turn performances into results. A part of me is getting a bit of deja vu with the Lambert era in the Prem which is giving me the jitters. Most of us thought we had improved as a team but we were still losing games, couldn't score goals and generally not doing enough to stay up! Please tell me I'm just a pessimistic old bugger!! The frustrating thing is based on the last 2 games we are easily good enough to stay up. We played better than we had been under Lambert but I can't recall us playing that well (except did we get a draw away at Liverpool?). We've actually played well in the last couple of games - and actually played well against Coventry and only lost due to a defensive brain fart. So yes you are a pessimistic old bugger but unfortunately that doesn't mean you are wrong😁
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Post by dirtygary69 on Mar 6, 2024 11:50:01 GMT
The problem is we've got ourselves in a situation where a run of bad luck/playing well and losing will see us go down. Certainly playing well improves our chances of staying up but we actually need more than that - in fact we'd be better off playing badly and winning. If we don't want to rely on luck we need to turn performances into results. This. I said when SS joined and we actually were playing well, that when you play well and don't get anything (or not what you deserve - e.g a draw away at Watford, and a loss at home v Birmingham) it ends up going the other way, which is what happened against Leicester and then after that for a month. Overall, the last two games have been very encouraging, BUT we're not in a position where we can play well and not get what we deserve. I'd rather we were awful and won. If we play like that against Preston, we should take all 3 points, but we know from history that our runs/spells don't last very long. I happen to think we'll just be OK, because it now feels like it'll be as a collective. The home games from here on in are going to be like the old days.
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Post by dirtygary69 on Mar 6, 2024 11:59:11 GMT
Also agree that the OP is slightly unbalanced.
Leeds or most teams you play away are always going to create chances. Saying they could have scored 4 or 5 is a bit OTT, not every chance means they should score. That also means we probably should have won 6-2 on Saturday. It's not the way football works (of course sometimes you do get punished every time).
There are signs of an actual plan being implemented. Unfortunately, the crux of the improvement in my opinion, is because of the balance in the middle. If that gets broken up/messed with, I can see it going back to shit. Although Laurent and Baker both have their drawbacks, they are at least mobile and relatively physical (I know Laurent can be a fanny, but compared to Cundle etc...). They also appear to work well together in that three. I think Thompson, or even Bae in Baker's role, is the only change I would even contemplate making. I guess Pearson is probably done for after last night.
Yes, it should have happened earlier in the season and not when we need to save our arses, but overall: A virtually new squad Burger & Bae taking time to find their feet and adjust (and now Manhoef looking good) A settled defence (hopefully) Injuries to the likes of Baker and Laurent, now coming back into full-flow A CF position that looks like Ennis & Campbell can actually cause problems in
It is all a bit last minute, but then there is also nearly another 1/4 of the season left too. The league itself is tight and it's not just us who have under-performed. It doesn't look nice being in the bottom three, but I can't see us getting cut adrift and we might even get out of it later without even playing.
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Post by thehoof on Mar 6, 2024 12:03:32 GMT
No, we won’t. It’s another blank in terms of goals scored. Most teams will get a goal against us- we still don’t look like a side who can score 1 never mind 2. We have been heading in this direction for over 12 months. I’m afraid to say that at the end of the season we will have moved out of the Championship as a result of 7 years of bad management in terms of player recruitment, Director of football and Head Coach recruitment. SS has made som poor decisions, but has inherited a team wit zero goals in it, and a defence that is not fit for purpose. If he keeps us up, he will have done well.
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Post by moon on Mar 6, 2024 12:04:51 GMT
No doubt under SS we are more pleasing on the eye than probably any manager since since we got relegated, but our lack of a decent and natural left back or striker, I feel will continue to haunt us. If M'waee is still popular amongst the group and said all the right things to the manager, he has to play if fit, he's our best all round striker option.. At times MON had us playing some nice passing out from the back, or at least in one game when every player in the team touched it about once in a flowing move and Tymon (I think) scored. That was the exception to the rule though, he turned quite negative, especially in his last 9 months here.
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Post by stokecitydom on Mar 6, 2024 12:08:58 GMT
I haven’t heard/seen anyone celebrating a 1-0 defeat like it’s an achievement. But surely we have to take some positives from the performance. Yes we could’ve been a goal or 3 down, but we weren’t. The keeper finally did his job & the defence stuck at it. We showed abit of resilience which has definitely been missing, we were then much improved in the second half and should’ve taken a point.
I watched the stream with Leeds commentary & they talked pretty positively about the Stoke second half performance. It was a battle for them in the second half & they were relieved to get the 3 points.
I see no harm in fans trying to be positive/optimistic for the final stretch, as the last 2 games have given me abit of hope. In contrast to the previous 3 where I thought we’d be a certainty for relegation.
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Post by cvillestokie on Mar 6, 2024 12:25:06 GMT
Play like that from 0-0 and we should. Playing like it from 0-1 offers a false perspective. All teams sit back more when they are winning and invite pressure, knowing they should be able to sustain it.
We are the third lowest scorers in the league. Everyone knows that if we don’t score first, we won’t be winning.
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Post by svengaliinplatforms on Mar 6, 2024 12:36:52 GMT
Last night was a free hit. They came off the back of a poor result againgst Huddersfield, and were straight out of the traps.
First half was like The Alamo at times, but Leeds (a) is going to be largely 'damage limitation' for any side outside the top 8 or so. We are not there, we know that.
They are probably what we're aspiring to be - quick, direct, balls into feet and utilising the pace they have, well. They've got players that would fit some Premier League sides & man-for-man they're better than us. One or two of our players, might get a game off the bench for them.
The three things I wanted to see as a minimum, we got: we didn't get battered 3/4/5-0; we showed character & good attitude; and we played OK. I think we got those.
The players were gutted at the final whistle. They care. I think that's clear.
Our season, or what remains of it, won't be defined by the results we get at the likes of Leeds (a).
We are in a dogfight. We've got tough games coming up, and at the same time, our 'peer group' have discovered some form...it's frustrating.
If we go down, showing the character & performance that we saw 2nd half last night, at least we'll go down fighting. I think we'll be OK, though.
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Post by xchpotter on Mar 6, 2024 12:40:33 GMT
I guess things have been so bad that in context last night was seen as positive. I can see both sides, but the bottom line is points on the board are all that matters and whilst we have to be positive, that doesn't guarantee points.
Preston is huge as do something good and we can start building momentum, something bad and it could be very damaging to the mentality of staying up.
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Post by ethers26 on Mar 6, 2024 12:42:06 GMT
We have to go to Preston and win. It’s that simple. If we don’t the last 2 performances count for very little. In reality we don’t mate We could win and go down and we could lose and stay up It would be fantastic but it doesn’t hinge on Preston away True, but a win would be a massive confidence boost after a win vs Boro and our efforts last night Especially when those around us are getting results/momentum I fear we're going to run out of games. We 100% need Campbell to start and get firing. I'd be tempted to try him and Ennis, with Burger replacing a CB as mad as that sounds.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Mar 6, 2024 12:45:37 GMT
If we'd invested seriously in a striker last summer rather than pennies on Ryan mmaee, we would be fine. We'd have nicked a point from a game like that last night.
Sheff weds signed a couple of big lads in Jan and look at them, play off form
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Mar 6, 2024 12:46:01 GMT
The fact we only lost 1 v 0 is a big positive for our GD. Obviously we don’t prise a loss, but in the circumstances it was ok. The players appear to give a shit, and two weeks ago we’d have seen another 5 - 0 Leicester score line.
Move in. Same team again next, build, build familiarity, get the points
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Post by ethers26 on Mar 6, 2024 12:48:35 GMT
If we'd invested seriously in a striker last summer rather than pennies on Ryan mmaee, we would be fine. We'd have nicked a point from a game like that last night. Sheff weds signed a couple of big lads in Jan and look at them, play off form I think if Campbell started - and we pressed high like we did 2nd half - he'd take chances.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Mar 6, 2024 13:20:24 GMT
Fair enough Mark, I read the OP and sounded like people were happy with it. And in fairness I've seen the odd post referencing it being a good result etc (only 1-0). We just need to be careful of slipping into this dark place of being comfortable with defeats because that ends one way. In terms of analysing performance, I think we're definitely looking better than we were 10 days ago at Cardiff. We do seem to have this weird trait of raising our game against better sides. Even under Oneil and Neil. Huge game at Preston. We need something there. In the last five minutes on the wireless Ange certainly made it seem like she felt we’d got some kind of a result. At one point she said “don’t do anything stupid now Stoke.” Absolutely bonkers The second half was encouraging and gave cause for some level of hope but it doesn’t make any difference to the nil points and the loss of ground at the end of the day. Jesus it's worrying isn't it. How have we become so fucking shit.
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Post by scfcbiancorossi on Mar 6, 2024 13:24:15 GMT
Last night was a free hit. They came off the back of a poor result againgst Huddersfield, and were straight out of the traps. First half was like The Alamo at times, but Leeds (a) is going to be largely 'damage limitation' for any side outside the top 8 or so. We are not there, we know that. They are probably what we're aspiring to be - quick, direct, balls into feet and utilising the pace they have, well. They've got players that would fit some Premier League sides & man-for-man they're better than us. One or two of our players, might get a game off the bench for them. The three things I wanted to see as a minimum, we got: we didn't get battered 3/4/5-0; we showed character & good attitude; and we played OK. I think we got those. The players were gutted at the final whistle. They care. I think that's clear. Our season, or what remains of it, won't be defined by the results we get at the likes of Leeds (a). We are in a dogfight. We've got tough games coming up, and at the same time, our 'peer group' have discovered some form...it's frustrating. If we go down, showing the character & performance that we saw 2nd half last night, at least we'll go down fighting. I think we'll be OK, though. I hate this kind of language, it's so painfully lacking in ambition. A free hit against a championship side we've already beaten this season under a manager who got sacked shortly after? It was a championship Leeds side who aren't even in the top two and behind a side that got promoted from league one last season. They were missing players and were weary from lots of fixtures and were miles off their best. It wasn't a free hit it all. Another day we could have taken 3 points. Anyone would think we were playing Liverpool or City away. As the poster above mentions, the accepting language of certain supporters is a carbon copy of that which we saw during the Lambert era.
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Post by svengaliinplatforms on Mar 6, 2024 13:33:45 GMT
Last night was a free hit. They came off the back of a poor result againgst Huddersfield, and were straight out of the traps. First half was like The Alamo at times, but Leeds (a) is going to be largely 'damage limitation' for any side outside the top 8 or so. We are not there, we know that. They are probably what we're aspiring to be - quick, direct, balls into feet and utilising the pace they have, well. They've got players that would fit some Premier League sides & man-for-man they're better than us. One or two of our players, might get a game off the bench for them. The three things I wanted to see as a minimum, we got: we didn't get battered 3/4/5-0; we showed character & good attitude; and we played OK. I think we got those. The players were gutted at the final whistle. They care. I think that's clear. Our season, or what remains of it, won't be defined by the results we get at the likes of Leeds (a). We are in a dogfight. We've got tough games coming up, and at the same time, our 'peer group' have discovered some form...it's frustrating. If we go down, showing the character & performance that we saw 2nd half last night, at least we'll go down fighting. I think we'll be OK, though. I hate this kind of language, it's so painfully lacking in ambition. A free hit against a championship side we've already beaten this season under a manager who got sacked shortly after? It was a championship Leeds side who aren't even in the top two and behind a side that got promoted from league one last season. They were missing players and were weary from lots of fixtures and were miles off their best. It wasn't a free hit it all. Another day we could have taken 3 points. Anyone would think we were playing Liverpool or City away. As the poster above mentions, the accepting language of certain supporters is a carbon copy of that which we saw during the Lambert era. I think it's commonly known, as realism. We're 3rd bottom for a reason. We're statistically the 3rd-worst side in the league. Away to Leeds, who are flying, especially tough on their home patch. Unbeaten in 11 games, 7 home wins on the spin, hardly conceding goals. Yes we 'could' have snatched something in the end. We could equally have been smashed 4-0, or 5-0, and been out of sight by H/T. I saw enough, to give me a bit of encouragement. If you're going to carry on expecting our relegation- threatened side to rock up at places like Leeds, and turn them over, I can guarantee you're going to be disappointed. Am I happy that we're languishing in 22nd place, after seasons of utter dross? Not at all. That's not what I'm saying.
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Mar 6, 2024 13:35:53 GMT
They sat back at 1-0. Really?
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Post by fca47 on Mar 6, 2024 13:40:33 GMT
All this we could have been 5 down is rubbish, the goalkeeper is part of the team and did his job properly, some would say for the first time. Big issue is the weak shooting, when they had a shot it tested the goalkeeper, whereas the majority of ours were passes to the goalkeeper. This is my worry, even when we play well we don't"t look like scoring many.
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Post by PotterLog on Mar 6, 2024 13:45:16 GMT
I hate this kind of language, it's so painfully lacking in ambition. A free hit against a championship side we've already beaten this season under a manager who got sacked shortly after? It was a championship Leeds side who aren't even in the top two and behind a side that got promoted from league one last season. They were missing players and were weary from lots of fixtures and were miles off their best. It wasn't a free hit it all. Another day we could have taken 3 points. Anyone would think we were playing Liverpool or City away. As the poster above mentions, the accepting language of certain supporters is a carbon copy of that which we saw during the Lambert era. I think it's commonly known, as realism. We're 3rd bottom for a reason. We're statistically the 3rd-worst side in the league. Away to Leeds, who are flying, especially tough on their home patch. Yes we 'could' have snatched something in the end. We could equally have been smashed 4-0, or 5-0, and been out of sight by H/T. I saw enough, to give me a bit of encouragement. If you're going to carry on expecting our relegation threatened-side to rock up at places like Leeds, and turn them over, I can guarantee you're going to be disappointed. Am I happy that we're languishing in 22nd place, after seasons of utter dross? Not at all. That's not what I'm saying. No variety of realism should have any match in the Championship down as a free hit.
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Post by svengaliinplatforms on Mar 6, 2024 13:46:51 GMT
I think it's commonly known, as realism. We're 3rd bottom for a reason. We're statistically the 3rd-worst side in the league. Away to Leeds, who are flying, especially tough on their home patch. Yes we 'could' have snatched something in the end. We could equally have been smashed 4-0, or 5-0, and been out of sight by H/T. I saw enough, to give me a bit of encouragement. If you're going to carry on expecting our relegation threatened-side to rock up at places like Leeds, and turn them over, I can guarantee you're going to be disappointed. Am I happy that we're languishing in 22nd place, after seasons of utter dross? Not at all. That's not what I'm saying. No variety of realism should have any match in the Championship down as a free hit. If we'd got something there last night, it would have been a bonus, in the greater scheme of things. That's a fact.
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Post by PotterLog on Mar 6, 2024 13:55:51 GMT
No variety of realism should have any match in the Championship down as a free hit. If we'd got something there last night, it would have been a bonus, in the greater scheme of things. That's a fact. That's not a fact. For a start "a bonus" is a totally subjective thing. A bonus over what? A free hit was playing ManU or Chelsea away with them in the Champions' League spots, not fucking Leeds United who, even in our disjointed, disconnected, chaotic state, we're perfectly capable of pissing all over. As we proved for a large period of the 2nd half.
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Post by dirtygary69 on Mar 6, 2024 14:16:19 GMT
Last night was a free hit. They came off the back of a poor result againgst Huddersfield, and were straight out of the traps. First half was like The Alamo at times, but Leeds (a) is going to be largely 'damage limitation' for any side outside the top 8 or so. We are not there, we know that. They are probably what we're aspiring to be - quick, direct, balls into feet and utilising the pace they have, well. They've got players that would fit some Premier League sides & man-for-man they're better than us. One or two of our players, might get a game off the bench for them. The three things I wanted to see as a minimum, we got: we didn't get battered 3/4/5-0; we showed character & good attitude; and we played OK. I think we got those. The players were gutted at the final whistle. They care. I think that's clear. Our season, or what remains of it, won't be defined by the results we get at the likes of Leeds (a). We are in a dogfight. We've got tough games coming up, and at the same time, our 'peer group' have discovered some form...it's frustrating. If we go down, showing the character & performance that we saw 2nd half last night, at least we'll go down fighting. I think we'll be OK, though. I hate this kind of language, it's so painfully lacking in ambition. A free hit against a championship side we've already beaten this season under a manager who got sacked shortly after? It was a championship Leeds side who aren't even in the top two and behind a side that got promoted from league one last season. They were missing players and were weary from lots of fixtures and were miles off their best. It wasn't a free hit it all. Another day we could have taken 3 points. Anyone would think we were playing Liverpool or City away. As the poster above mentions, the accepting language of certain supporters is a carbon copy of that which we saw during the Lambert era. It's all relative though, isn't it? They're the equivalent of a Man City/Arsenal/Liverpool at the level we're at, and we're fighting to stay up, like a Luton would. They have PL quality players in their squad but they are definitely beatable, and we put in more than a decent enough performance. Of course we shouldn't be in this position and the fact that Leeds are so far ahead is not a good look, but there's no point dwelling on that now. We are what we are. Are you suggesting we should have gone there and won yesterday?
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Post by bunnyscfc on Mar 6, 2024 14:26:20 GMT
Wonder if QPR saw Leicester as a "free hit"?
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Post by mamathestriker on Mar 6, 2024 14:48:12 GMT
Wonder if QPR saw Leicester as a "free hit"? Yes, more than likely.
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Post by Glory Hunter on Mar 6, 2024 14:50:00 GMT
Whilst the second half we were slightly the better team and it was a vast improvement on previous months - despite being against a team playing their 4th game in 12 days including a local derby and big cup game - was it really enough for unbridled optimism from some? 1. We should have been 3 or 4 down by half time and they had the cigars on second half, including a possible red for Iversen? 2. We could have lost 5-1 overall quite easily. 3. Chances - I mean clear-cut chances.....1 or 2 at the most? 4. Our keeper was easily MOTM. By a mile. 5. We failed to score - again. 6. This improved attitude and desire - nice of the players to show it in March. So I ask - whilst we escaped a tonking that many expected - was last night really enough to say "if we play like that, we will stay up"? And just how far have we fallen, when avoiding a tonking seems to be celebrated? The talk on radio before the start was settling for a 2-0 defeat. Seriously? Play like that for the rest of the season, and miss the chances we do create, show the stupidity Pearson did, and the defensive vulnerabilities we did first half - and we don't stay up. Amazed how giddy some are despite us falling further behind some teams and putting up a showing that is the very least that we should expect as fans. Just how rotten was the club before the PR of the last 2 weeks? A game where we show a decent attitude is the very least that I expect. Every single bloody game! Sorry, I hardly ever praise losses, especially when third bottom. Some of the over-the-top stuff I saw after beating a rancid Boro team from the club's media and on social media by fans was absolutely crackers. Ditto last night. This is bollocks mate. If you can’t have seen what was going on on the pitch (100% effort by every player, bodies on the line all over place, and as dominant 2nd half Leeds have faced at home all season)then listen to the away fans, out singing Leeds for 60/70 mins. A brave and encouraging performance by the team and an amazing performance by the away fans in a couldron of a stadium. This was another turning point. We will be ok mark my words.
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Post by bunnyscfc on Mar 6, 2024 14:56:10 GMT
They sat back at 1-0. Really? I never said that. I said that if they had been 3 or 4 up at ht as they should have been, then the cigars would have been out. We played well second half. Played like that all season we'd be looking at top 10.
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