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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 27, 2023 9:50:00 GMT
Then you don’t know what you’ve been watching because it certainly hasn’t been 4231. Johnson has very clearly been playing (or trying to play) more advanced than the other two midfielders. Not even close to being a 10 though and has very much been part of a 433.
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Post by baconburger on Dec 27, 2023 9:50:27 GMT
Then you don’t know what you’ve been watching because it certainly hasn’t been 4231. Johnson has very clearly been playing (or trying to play) more advanced than the other two midfielders. I think that’s just a particular quirk of AN same as Smallbone last season. He’s far more interested in how far they’ve run than output and creation. It’s just fucking horrible.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Dec 27, 2023 9:51:45 GMT
It has been for a while but it’s one of many problems. The biggest is the formation. Utter rubbish. If you don't want to think about formations or discuss them why are you on this thread ? You're coming across as though you're too thick / lazy to comprehend it to be honest so rather than being able to discuss it you just want to ruin it for others. I had a friend who was very similar when I was 12.
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Post by mickstupp on Dec 27, 2023 9:51:47 GMT
Johnson has very clearly been playing (or trying to play) more advanced than the other two midfielders. Not even close to being a 10 though and has very much been part of a 433. He’s been advanced of the other two and very much trying to play as a ten. How well he has played, and if he deserves to play, is a different argument.
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Post by baconburger on Dec 27, 2023 9:52:11 GMT
But if you make the wide forwards part of your defensive structure and play DJ as an attacking midfielder is it any wonder. The 4 defenders and 2 DM’s should provide your basic defensive structure. The 3 and the 1 should be dedicated attackers. That’s a fitness issue for me. The wide players still have to pick up and track back if we are out of possession. They didn’t do a great deal of it when we were good and deploying that formation. You didn’t get a great deal of defending out of Arnie & Shaq.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 27, 2023 9:54:13 GMT
Not even close to being a 10 though and has very much been part of a 433. He’s been advanced of the other two and very much trying to play as a ten. How well he has played, and if he deserves to play, is a different argument. He really hasn’t.
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Post by mickstupp on Dec 27, 2023 9:54:22 GMT
That’s a fitness issue for me. The wide players still have to pick up and track back if we are out of possession. They didn’t do a great deal of it when we were good and deploying that formation. You didn’t get a great deal of defending out of Arnie & Shaq. Certainly not with Shaq but we got it from Walters and I thought Arnies work rate was ignored tbh. It’s an easier role to play when your team dominates possession though for sure.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 27, 2023 9:55:13 GMT
If you don't want to think about formations or discuss them why are you on this thread ? You're coming across as though you're too thick / lazy to comprehend it to be honest so rather than being able to discuss it you just want to ruin it for others. I had a friend who was very similar when I was 12. I understand the basics of footballing formations mate. Ruin what? The discussion is 3 pages long already, I've ruined fuck all. I've put my viewpoint across, some have disagreed and plenty have agreed/liked what I've said. If my viewpoint bothers you so much then I apologise, but I'll put it across whether you or anyone else likes it or not.
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Post by mickstupp on Dec 27, 2023 9:55:21 GMT
He’s been advanced of the other two and very much trying to play as a ten. How well he has played, and if he deserves to play, is a different argument. He really hasn’t. He really, really has. Just really, really badly.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 27, 2023 9:58:15 GMT
He really, really has. Just really, really badly. He’s been playing as an 8.
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Post by senojbor on Dec 27, 2023 9:59:39 GMT
It appears SS knows what he's doing with the team and it's formation.
On the odd occasion I watched Plymouth last season they were very good especially going forward.
Let's hope he continues to makes progress for us too
Looking forward to Friday
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Post by baconburger on Dec 27, 2023 9:59:58 GMT
He really, really has. Just really, really badly. He’s been playing as an 8. He’s clearly been the most advanced midfielder whatever title you want to put on it.
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 27, 2023 10:03:09 GMT
He’s been playing as an 8. He’s clearly been the most advanced midfielder whatever title you want to put on it. Yes. A number 8
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Post by wakeypotter on Dec 27, 2023 10:03:52 GMT
Whatever happened to 4-4 fucking 2
Yeh I know stuck in past More sexy to play other formations I get it but I love wingers getting past a man , don’t see that too often 4-3-3 isn’t 4-3-3 3 at the back is 5 really A lot of it is bollocks really
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 27, 2023 10:05:07 GMT
Whatever happened to 4-4 fucking 2 Yeh I know stuck in past More sexy to play other formations I get it but I love wingers getting past a man , don’t see that too often 4-3-3 isn’t 4-3-3 3 at the back is 5 really A lot of it is bollocks really You lose the midfield and then lose.
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Post by baconburger on Dec 27, 2023 10:05:39 GMT
He’s clearly been the most advanced midfielder whatever title you want to put on it. Yes. A number 8 As I said call it whatever you want but if we’ve been playing with two No 8’a one of them has been a sight freer than the other so obviously a No8 is not a definitive description.
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Post by baconburger on Dec 27, 2023 10:08:41 GMT
Whatever happened to 4-4 fucking 2 Yeh I know stuck in past More sexy to play other formations I get it but I love wingers getting past a man , don’t see that too often 4-3-3 isn’t 4-3-3 3 at the back is 5 really A lot of it is bollocks really You lose the midfield and then lose. Yes going 2 against 3 in centre midfield is suicidal that’s why virtually no manager/coaches play it.
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Post by wakeypotter on Dec 27, 2023 10:12:53 GMT
Whatever happened to 4-4 fucking 2 Yeh I know stuck in past More sexy to play other formations I get it but I love wingers getting past a man , don’t see that too often 4-3-3 isn’t 4-3-3 3 at the back is 5 really A lot of it is bollocks really You lose the midfield and then lose. I mean i know it’s a few years ago but my team hardly ever lost with 4-4-2 When there’s 2 up top 1 always drops into the 10 Depends on the players you have. Yeh understand midfield is the key but for a lot of years this club bi passed the midfield and did pretty good at home
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Post by bayernoatcake on Dec 27, 2023 10:14:22 GMT
You lose the midfield and then lose. I mean i know it’s a few years ago but my team hardly ever lost with 4-4-2 When there’s 2 up top 1 always drops into the 10 Depends on the players you have. Yeh understand midfield is the key but for a lot of years this club bi passed the midfield and did pretty good at home Football has moved on.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Dec 27, 2023 10:18:11 GMT
He’s been playing as an 8. He’s clearly been the most advanced midfielder whatever title you want to put on it. I can see both sides to this argument. Neil played with 433 most of the time without a number 10, sometimes he played one 8 who was the most advanced midfielder sometimes he played two 8s with just one holding mid. Strictly it wasn't 4231 because there was no number 10, but in a 433 all the midfielders aren't going to play side by side so it's 433 with either advanced of holding midfielders.
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Post by mickstupp on Dec 27, 2023 10:19:09 GMT
You lose the midfield and then lose. I mean i know it’s a few years ago but my team hardly ever lost with 4-4-2 When there’s 2 up top 1 always drops into the 10 Depends on the players you have. Yeh understand midfield is the key but for a lot of years this club bi passed the midfield and did pretty good at home I know what you mean mate. I don’t think the championship is overly tactical and it doesn’t need to be either. We need a goal scoring threat, a sprinkling of quality, players that can run and tackle and a decent keeper don’t we?
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Post by marwood on Dec 27, 2023 10:26:51 GMT
I never understood formations myself until I sat down with Garth and he explained it to me
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Post by wakeypotter on Dec 27, 2023 10:32:35 GMT
I mean i know it’s a few years ago but my team hardly ever lost with 4-4-2 When there’s 2 up top 1 always drops into the 10 Depends on the players you have. Yeh understand midfield is the key but for a lot of years this club bi passed the midfield and did pretty good at home I know what you mean mate. I don’t think the championship is overly tactical and it doesn’t need to be either. We need a goal scoring threat, a sprinkling of quality, players that can run and tackle and a decent keeper don’t we? Agree with that mate I don’t think some championship players are good enough for the tactics given out anyway. Sometimes mick you have to keep things simple. 3 players in January and things could look so much different. Thought mmaee did ok yesterday but I’m not convinced he’s the answer, I would look in lower leagues for a goalscorer. Need a really good centre half to partner mcnally and that would improve him and a keeper or travers back. Bonham done ok but still worries me. Get these mate and I think we can really start to look up
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Post by mrcoke on Dec 27, 2023 10:38:37 GMT
For me it wasn't so much the formation that made the difference last night as the attitude and freedom the players had. Burger was a different player. Thompson put in an excellent performance. The forward players were far more together and playing for each other. We didn't miss any other the usual Neil choices who were not playing.
But before we get too carried away, we should remember Birmingham were very poor and our defending was shocking at times. SS talked of small margins last week. Just before our third goal, Brum missed a sitter. They had a free header from a centre, totally undefended that went wide. If they had scored then, the total momentum of the game could have swung round and we could have been desperately holding on to a 1 goal lead. SS still has a lot of work to do on our defending.
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Post by baconburger on Dec 27, 2023 10:41:09 GMT
He’s clearly been the most advanced midfielder whatever title you want to put on it. I can see both sides to this argument. Neil played with 433 most of the time without a number 10, sometimes he played one 8 who was the most advanced midfielder sometimes he played two 8s with just one holding mid. Strictly it wasn't 4231 because there was no number 10, but in a 433 all the midfielders aren't going to play side by side so it's 433 with either advanced of holding midfielders. You can play a flat 3 in midfield allowing both FB’s to bomb on. Not that that’s what we’ve been doing either it’s been variations of 1:2 & 2:1 pivots but the roles of the 2’s in either haven’t been identical. All formations are just the manager/head coaches interpretation of them and their interpretations are often bizarre and mainly negative.
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Post by andystokey on Dec 27, 2023 10:45:15 GMT
Wasn't the point that within a basic set up we were intentionally fluid. I liked the way that Burger, Bae and Junior had zones not rigid positions. It also made it difficult for Rooney to counter it. We definitely got closer to the ball in groups and that's why Mmaee wasn't so isolated.
The last 10 minutes of possession was really well worked. Additionally, the way the back 3 turned into a 4 sometimes 5 as required was really interesting.
Needs some hard work though which means timing of subs will be really important.
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Post by paulkoz on Dec 27, 2023 11:26:13 GMT
4231 I think, but both Junior and Hoever had a lot of license to roam - Junior in particular was all over the gaff. Also, I'm pretty certain he told Junho, Vidigal, Gooch and Mmaee to work more as a unit rather than just having Mmaee stuck up to by himself. Still early days. Seems this gaffer is using common sense implementing small changes as not to overload the players. Give it a few months.
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Post by Trouserdog on Dec 27, 2023 11:26:39 GMT
We've played a few different formations this season.
4-2-3-1 and 4-3-3 have both been used. As I said earlier, the key is looking at how we're set up out of possession. I can't remember what game we played what, but yesterday was definitely 4-3-3 as Thompson was noticeably deeper than Burger and Bae Junho.
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Dec 27, 2023 11:30:03 GMT
I never understood formations myself until I sat down with Garth and he explained it to me And praising Chelsea for handling the Delap throw one game...Delap didn't play
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Post by sticky on Dec 27, 2023 11:48:59 GMT
Whatever formation it is, it’s refreshing to see the ball being passed about with more urgency, instead of this plodding backwards crap. Not having 5 or 6 touches when 1 will suffice is improving the tempo we play the game, and when out of possession, the speed of pressing and closing down as a unit was great to see. All pretty basic shit really and should of been I given under AN hence why he needed to be binned off *all this (time to gel) the experts on her kept coming out with was clearly utter bollocks as well. We were just a beige boring team who were easy to play against.. looks like things are on the up👍🏻
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