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Post by wazbagsbro on Dec 3, 2023 15:55:18 GMT
At our peril.
Name another club of our size that’s been backed financially like Stoke.
Since relegation they have employed several managers to get us back up to where Bet365 are desperate for us to be. Every manager employed has been backed to the hilt to succeed. Even when there was no cash we’ve managed to get some of the best young talent on loan from other clubs ( how many are now playing premier or being successful in the championship)
They’ve head hunted the managers they chose from clubs no matter the cost.
Obviously the choice of managers haven’t worked out for whatever reason but I don’t believe that’s the Coates family’s fault .
Just getting a continental manager doesn’t guarantee anything.
The point is if the Coates family keep getting abused by Stoke supporters they could walk away. That would be terrible. Not in the next hundred years will we have owners more able and willing to get us successful. Anyone over 40 yoa must know this. The younger supporters probably think there are people cuing up to run our club. This is not so. We are all frustrated but let’s lay the blame where it belongs.
If you don’t agree fine, state your case . Why am I wrong?
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Dec 3, 2023 15:59:22 GMT
At our peril. Name another club of our size that’s been backed financially like Stoke. Since relegation they have employed several managers to get us back up to where Bet365 are desperate for us to be. Every manager employed has been backed to the hilt to succeed. Even when there was no cash we’ve managed to get some of the best young talent on loan from other clubs ( how many are now playing premier or being successful in the championship) They’ve head hunted the managers they chose from clubs no matter the cost. Obviously the choice of managers haven’t worked out for whatever reason but I don’t believe that’s the Coates family’s fault . Just getting a continental manager doesn’t guarantee anything. The point is if the Coates family keep getting abused by Stoke supporters they could walk away. That would be terrible. Not in the next hundred years will we have owners more able and willing to get us successful. Anyone over 40 yoa must know this. The younger supporters probably think there are people cuing up to run our club. This is not so. We are all frustrated but let’s lay the blame where it belongs. If you don’t agree fine, state your case . Why am I wrong? As gree with you, is nonsense See Reading this afternoon |
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Post by baconburger on Dec 3, 2023 16:00:42 GMT
At our peril. Name another club of our size that’s been backed financially like Stoke. Since relegation they have employed several managers to get us back up to where Bet365 are desperate for us to be. Every manager employed has been backed to the hilt to succeed. Even when there was no cash we’ve managed to get some of the best young talent on loan from other clubs ( how many are now playing premier or being successful in the championship) They’ve head hunted the managers they chose from clubs no matter the cost. Obviously the choice of managers haven’t worked out for whatever reason but I don’t believe that’s the Coates family’s fault . Just getting a continental manager doesn’t guarantee anything. The point is if the Coates family keep getting abused by Stoke supporters they could walk away. That would be terrible. Not in the next hundred years will we have owners more able and willing to get us successful. Anyone over 40 yoa must know this. The younger supporters probably think there are people cuing up to run our club. This is not so. We are all frustrated but let’s lay the blame where it belongs. If you don’t agree fine, state your case . Why am I wrong? We’ve been to the third tier three times in our history two of them under a Coates. Nobody makes them keep choosing these dour managers. |
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Post by loosestools on Dec 3, 2023 16:01:53 GMT
They are gullible.
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Post by danceswithclams on Dec 3, 2023 16:04:31 GMT
At our peril. Name another club of our size that’s been backed financially like Stoke. Since relegation they have employed several managers to get us back up to where Bet365 are desperate for us to be. Every manager employed has been backed to the hilt to succeed. Even when there was no cash we’ve managed to get some of the best young talent on loan from other clubs ( how many are now playing premier or being successful in the championship) They’ve head hunted the managers they chose from clubs no matter the cost. Obviously the choice of managers haven’t worked out for whatever reason but I don’t believe that’s the Coates family’s fault . Just getting a continental manager doesn’t guarantee anything. The point is if the Coates family keep getting abused by Stoke supporters they could walk away. That would be terrible. Not in the next hundred years will we have owners more able and willing to get us successful. Anyone over 40 yoa must know this. The younger supporters probably think there are people cuing up to run our club. This is not so. We are all frustrated but let’s lay the blame where it belongs. If you don’t agree fine, state your case . Why am I wrong? The blame lies solely with them. They've mismanaged the club to the extent that it's that laden with debt that it's practically unsellable. They also steadfastly refuse to put in place the structures and processes required for a football club such as this to be successful in the modern era, instead putting all their hopes on appointing a manager who will oversee everything and drive progress. It worked with Pulis yes, but that was 15 years ago and the football environment has changed beyond recognition since then. The last 7 years of failure is evidence that they simply don't know how to run the club and are too blinkered or stubborn to admit that they need help. Until they alter their ways (or fuck off and let someone else have a go) absolutely nothing will change. Who is it that you blame might I ask? Let me guess, those dastardly, ungrateful fans... |
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Dec 3, 2023 16:11:14 GMT
There are positions you can adopt between zero blame and blaming for everything.
The fundamental point is John Coates is head of organisation that has been failing for the better part of a decade, despite tonnes of investment in managers and playing staff. They have made 1 good managerial appointment since the sacking of Hughes in 2018.
They offer Stoke tonnes of financial stability, but writing off 120 million of debt you owe to yourself because you can’t manage a top half finish in a league where more than half the clubs have encountered some degree of crisis is not reason for praise, it’s the biggest symptom what you are doing is not working.
They have been behind the times commercially, infrastructure wise and with their mangerial setups, catering to every single manager’s whim and wondering why it fails when the next man in has to dismantle everything his predecessor set up.
Our lowest points in history have previously been under the Coates family, they do have form in taking us to the third tier which is not an opinion its just objective fact.
Are they totally to blame? Absolutely not, have certain decisions they have taken, at inopportune moments and with little foresight responsible for where we currently are? Yes.
It is totally disingenuous to suggest otherwise. They aren’t going to sell up, certainly not while Peter is still on the scene I imagine, but I’m not totally absolving the people holding the keys to club of blame because they “may walk away”.
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Post by LGH87 on Dec 3, 2023 16:12:43 GMT
At our peril. Name another club of our size that’s been backed financially like Stoke. Since relegation they have employed several managers to get us back up to where Bet365 are desperate for us to be. Every manager employed has been backed to the hilt to succeed. Even when there was no cash we’ve managed to get some of the best young talent on loan from other clubs ( how many are now playing premier or being successful in the championship) They’ve head hunted the managers they chose from clubs no matter the cost. Obviously the choice of managers haven’t worked out for whatever reason but I don’t believe that’s the Coates family’s fault . Just getting a continental manager doesn’t guarantee anything. The point is if the Coates family keep getting abused by Stoke supporters they could walk away. That would be terrible. Not in the next hundred years will we have owners more able and willing to get us successful. Anyone over 40 yoa must know this. The younger supporters probably think there are people cuing up to run our club. This is not so. We are all frustrated but let’s lay the blame where it belongs. If you don’t agree fine, state your case . Why am I wrong? The blame lies solely with them. They've mismanaged the club to the extent that it's that laden with debt that it's practically unsellable. They also steadfastly refuse to put in place the structures and processes required for a football club such as this to be successful in the modern era, instead putting all their hopes on appointing a manager who will oversee everything and drive progress. It worked with Pulis yes, but that was 15 years ago and the football environment has changed beyond recognition since then. The last 7 years of failure is evidence that they simply don't know how to run the club and are too blinkered or stubborn to admit that they need help. Until they alter their ways (or fuck off and let someone else have a go) absolutely nothing will change. Who is it that you blame might I ask? Let me guess, those dastardly, ungrateful fans... Absolutely this. People think we should be grateful for the ten years in the prem. if they had been any good at running the club we’d still be there. Instead they appointed Paul fucking Lambert to keep us up. |
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Post by baconburger on Dec 3, 2023 16:13:11 GMT
At our peril. Name another club of our size that’s been backed financially like Stoke. Since relegation they have employed several managers to get us back up to where Bet365 are desperate for us to be. Every manager employed has been backed to the hilt to succeed. Even when there was no cash we’ve managed to get some of the best young talent on loan from other clubs ( how many are now playing premier or being successful in the championship) They’ve head hunted the managers they chose from clubs no matter the cost. Obviously the choice of managers haven’t worked out for whatever reason but I don’t believe that’s the Coates family’s fault . Just getting a continental manager doesn’t guarantee anything. The point is if the Coates family keep getting abused by Stoke supporters they could walk away. That would be terrible. Not in the next hundred years will we have owners more able and willing to get us successful. Anyone over 40 yoa must know this. The younger supporters probably think there are people cuing up to run our club. This is not so. We are all frustrated but let’s lay the blame where it belongs. If you don’t agree fine, state your case . Why am I wrong? The blame lies solely with them. They've mismanaged the club to the extent that it's that laden with debt that it's practically unsellable. They also steadfastly refuse to put in place the structures and processes required for a football club such as this to be successful in the modern era, instead putting all their hopes on appointing a manager who will oversee everything and drive progress. It worked with Pulis yes, but that was 15 years ago and the football environment has changed beyond recognition since then. The last 7 years of failure is evidence that they simply don't know how to run the club and are too blinkered or stubborn to admit that they need help. Until they alter their ways (or fuck off and let someone else have a go) absolutely nothing will change. Who is it that you blame might I ask? Let me guess, those dastardly, ungrateful fans... Exactly, stuck in the past and I’m not sure the club being laden with debt doesn’t suit them just fine. Let’s face facts even when he sort of sold out Peter managed to engineer control of future ownership. I think they’ve got many just where they want them being forever grateful for the mess they have presided over. Lower than we were when he bought the club back. Stuck with yet another goal a game manager |
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Post by farfromhere on Dec 3, 2023 16:16:01 GMT
The blame goes beyond the manager. We can't just keep riding the merry-go-round of managers that the Coates family deem to be suitable for the club and fit their rigid criteria.
The league is highly competitive. If you're not a top 3/5 team, your going to be winning 50% of your games, losing most of the others and having a few draws thrown in here and there which I'd take right now as it'd be better than what we're having to watch.
Unless there is someone brought in with a new vision for the club, I'm afraid we're going to be faced with dross for many years to come. Even if somebody with big money and vision came in it'd probably take 2-3 seasons for change to take effect. With businesses/structures where there is apathy, it can be deeply embedded and hard to root out.
I think the minimum most of us want is a competitive side that plays entertaining football as if you're supporting a side outside a select few it's about all you can hope for.
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Post by LGH87 on Dec 3, 2023 16:16:20 GMT
If Ipswich can end up with brilliant owners, then why can’t we?
Why do all the Coates rimmers have to make out that the only alternative is to end up like a Reading?
Its such a bizarre take, it’s like they’ve been brainwashed.
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Post by doctortheopolis on Dec 3, 2023 16:17:06 GMT
Someone very prominent in local non league football told a mate of mine 8 years ago that Jon Coates was now running the club and Peter was taking a backseat. He also said that it would only end up going badly for this reason as Jon didn't have a clue what he was doing. Quite prophetic unfortunately.
No one doubts that the Coates think the same way about the club as we do. No one doubts they have the best interests of the club at heart. However, they are the one common denominator over the mess of the last 7 years - managers come and go, so do players. If it was solely the manager's fault, you'd think we'd drop on one good one out of the last 5 permanent ones that would get us firing again. Someone appoints them, someone gives them carte blanche to run the club. Yes they've spent lots of money but much of it was is correcting their own mistakes.
This isn't a Coates out post by the way, it's a Coates wake the fuck up and run the club in a way that is befitting of 2023, not let Alex and Ricky rip the club up and start again. Brighton, Brentford etc all have a modern approach to structuring the club properly, why haven't we?! The club is stuck in a never ending circle of mediocrity with no sign of it changing any time soon.
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Post by Marc01 on Dec 3, 2023 16:18:14 GMT
Stoke will never have more committed owners and they remain the only realistic chance of long term progress.
They put huge amounts of finance into the club and expect nothing back.
Other than MON, since relegation, their manager selection decisions have not proven to be good ones.
They always make decisions with good intentions though.
Clearly, they need to be smarter and not get hoodwinked / shafted.
Even when we were in the PL, things like sanctioning the signing of Berahino were hugely questionable, well before it actually happened.
This also includes not appointing friends of manager, as a senior official, who then go onto spout a load of corporate bull****. Supporters will never fall for it.
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Post by farfromhere on Dec 3, 2023 16:21:30 GMT
Someone very prominent in local non league football told a mate of mine 8 years ago that Jon Coates was now running the club and Peter was taking a backseat. He also said that it would only end up going badly for this reason as Jon didn't have a clue what he was doing. Quite prophetic unfortunately. No one doubts that the Coates think the same way about the club as we do. No one doubts they have the best interests of the club at heart. However, they are the one common denominator over the mess of the last 7 years - managers come and go, so do players. If it was solely the manager's fault, you'd think we'd drop on one good one out of the last 5 permanent ones that would get us firing again. Someone appoints them, someone gives them carte blanche to run the club. Yes they've spent lots of money but much of it was is correcting their own mistakes. This isn't a Coates out post by the way, it's a Coates wake the fuck up and run the club in a way that is befitting of 2023, not let Alex and Ricky rip the club up and start again. Brighton, Brentford etc all have a modern approach to structuring the club properly, why haven't we?! The club is stuck in a never ending circle of mediocrity with no sign of it changing any time soon. It could easily be family politics too. Denise has clearly proven that she can run one of the most successful organisations in the country and I'm sure they have people who could come in and restructure the club. I get the feeling that John is left to run the club without much outside interference as it gives him something to do. |
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Post by bingbang on Dec 3, 2023 16:21:58 GMT
I know he's not everyone's cup of tea, but bringing a football, businessman in to oversee the running of the club is the answer. Step forward Mr.Simon Jordan.
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Post by sticky on Dec 3, 2023 16:22:23 GMT
They do a lot of good, and a lot of things bad. Surely they know this though
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Post by devondumpling on Dec 3, 2023 16:23:38 GMT
If Ipswich can end up with brilliant owners, then why can’t we? Why do all the Coates rimmers have to make out that the only alternative is to end up like a Reading? Its such a bizarre take, it’s like they’ve been brainwashed. Doing very well atm, but early days. |
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Post by theonlooker on Dec 3, 2023 16:24:58 GMT
They deserve criticism and lots of it.
We are where we are solely because of them.
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Post by doctortheopolis on Dec 3, 2023 16:26:15 GMT
Someone very prominent in local non league football told a mate of mine 8 years ago that Jon Coates was now running the club and Peter was taking a backseat. He also said that it would only end up going badly for this reason as Jon didn't have a clue what he was doing. Quite prophetic unfortunately. No one doubts that the Coates think the same way about the club as we do. No one doubts they have the best interests of the club at heart. However, they are the one common denominator over the mess of the last 7 years - managers come and go, so do players. If it was solely the manager's fault, you'd think we'd drop on one good one out of the last 5 permanent ones that would get us firing again. Someone appoints them, someone gives them carte blanche to run the club. Yes they've spent lots of money but much of it was is correcting their own mistakes. This isn't a Coates out post by the way, it's a Coates wake the fuck up and run the club in a way that is befitting of 2023, not let Alex and Ricky rip the club up and start again. Brighton, Brentford etc all have a modern approach to structuring the club properly, why haven't we?! The club is stuck in a never ending circle of mediocrity with no sign of it changing any time soon. It could easily be family politics too. Denise has clearly proven that she can run one of the most successful organisations in the country and I'm sure they have people who could come in and restructure the club. I get the feeling that John is left to run the club without much outside interference as it gives him something to do. Quite possibly mate. I don't have any inside knowledge of this but it's a possibility that Denise doesn't actually like the club and fans. As a younger woman, she will have seen all the grief that her dad got first time round and may think bollocks to that. When you see your Dad's car being damaged, fans verbally abusing your family and on occasion, trying to physically attack your old man, human nature suggests you may not like the people who were doing that and have a long memory when it comes to that. It's a real shame she isn't involved as she clearly has a lot more business acumen than her brother. Who knows?! |
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Post by LGH87 on Dec 3, 2023 16:26:19 GMT
If Ipswich can end up with brilliant owners, then why can’t we? Why do all the Coates rimmers have to make out that the only alternative is to end up like a Reading? Its such a bizarre take, it’s like they’ve been brainwashed. Doing very well atm, but early days. They’re light years ahead of us already and they only bought the club a couple of years ago. They aren’t the only example though, there’s loads where new owners have come in and turned clubs around. Yet the cult of Coates clan will only have you believe we’ll end up in league 2 ground sharing with the vale😂 |
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Dec 3, 2023 16:29:59 GMT
If Ipswich can end up with brilliant owners, then why can’t we? Why do all the Coates rimmers have to make out that the only alternative is to end up like a Reading? Its such a bizarre take, it’s like they’ve been brainwashed. Doing very well atm, but early days. They haven't been a decade in the top flight, Europe and a Cup final. Doing well in the Championship that's all to date but going good so far. Achieved nothing yet , difference is one person , the manager. Our job is ideal for the right manager, finding him is the problem. All this poisoned challenge, no one will come here etc is nonsense. Owners who back a manager, stick by a manager as long as they can is a dream job for a good manager. Sadly we have a shite one |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2023 16:30:09 GMT
They hire and fire , they delegate, they finance the club.
I give them , one out of 3 , they have put a lot of money in .
When it comes to hiring, firing and delegating , they have been as bad as it is humanely possible to be .
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Post by baconburger on Dec 3, 2023 16:34:55 GMT
Stoke will never have more committed owners and they remain the only realistic chance of long term progress. They put huge amounts of finance in to the club and expect nothing back. Other than MON, since relegation, their manager selection decisions have not proven to be good ones. They always make decisions with good intentions though. Clearly, they need to be smarter and not get hoodwinked / shafted. Even when we were in the PL, things like sanctioning the signing of Berahino were hugely questionable, well before it actually happened. This also includes not appointing a friend of manager, as a senior official, who then go onto spout a load of corporate bull****. Supporters will never fall for it. I don’t get where this bullshit that AN and RM are so closely linked. Their careers have overlapped for a relatively short period and I don’t even think their philosophies are that compatible. Obviously AN had an input into his recruitment which I think is wrong but ideally you want your DoF/technical/sporting director to have an input in choosing a manager/head coach to fit a blueprint laid out by the owners. The owners don’t have a blueprint other than dour and British within that they keep flip flopping on management style/football philosophy. It’s like if you don’t actually believe in anything why are you taking these major decisions. RM wouldn’t have been my choice for the role but I don’t think him AN and Jared and Gally are a package. We can and should sack AN without feeling the need to ditch the rest. It’s his decisions that are under the microscope. |
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Post by theporcelainpele on Dec 3, 2023 16:35:53 GMT
Doing very well atm, but early days. They haven't been a decade in the top flight, Europe and a Cup final. Doing well in the Championship that's all to date but going good so far. Achieved nothing yet , difference is one person , the manager. Our job is ideal for the right manager, finding him is the problem. All this poisoned challenge, no one will come here etc is nonsense. Owners who back a manager, stick by a manager as long as they can is a dream job for a good manager. Sadly we have a shite one They only took over the club 2 years ago tbf. For anyone interested, google ‘Gamechanger20’ to see the type of alternative ownership that’s becoming popular right now. |
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Post by Pugsley on Dec 3, 2023 16:37:50 GMT
At our peril. Name another club of our size that’s been backed financially like Stoke. Since relegation they have employed several managers to get us back up to where Bet365 are desperate for us to be. Every manager employed has been backed to the hilt to succeed. Even when there was no cash we’ve managed to get some of the best young talent on loan from other clubs ( how many are now playing premier or being successful in the championship) They’ve head hunted the managers they chose from clubs no matter the cost. Obviously the choice of managers haven’t worked out for whatever reason but I don’t believe that’s the Coates family’s fault . Just getting a continental manager doesn’t guarantee anything. The point is if the Coates family keep getting abused by Stoke supporters they could walk away. That would be terrible. Not in the next hundred years will we have owners more able and willing to get us successful. Anyone over 40 yoa must know this. The younger supporters probably think there are people cuing up to run our club. This is not so. We are all frustrated but let’s lay the blame where it belongs. If you don’t agree fine, state your case . Why am I wrong? Abused? Behave. They wouldn't have to pump as much money into the club if they new what they were doing! The blame for everything wrong with the club lies solely with them. |
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Post by baconburger on Dec 3, 2023 16:38:15 GMT
I know he's not everyone's cup of tea, but bringing a football, businessman in to oversee the running of the club is the answer. Step forward Mr.Simon Jordan. Was he the bloke who saw through Pulis despite his results in his part season there and couldn’t get rid of him fast enough when he laid out his plans for the future. If so bring him on. I’d prefer Nicola Cortese myself but no idea whether either want a job. |
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Post by greystokie on Dec 3, 2023 16:38:19 GMT
The owners are very well intentioned and committed. I'm sure they hold the club and city close to their hearts. Unfortunately, when it comes to running a football club, they haven't got a clue.
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Dec 3, 2023 16:40:42 GMT
They haven't been a decade in the top flight, Europe and a Cup final. Doing well in the Championship that's all to date but going good so far. Achieved nothing yet , difference is one person , the manager. Our job is ideal for the right manager, finding him is the problem. All this poisoned challenge, no one will come here etc is nonsense. Owners who back a manager, stick by a manager as long as they can is a dream job for a good manager. Sadly we have a shite one They only took over the club 2 years ago tbf. For anyone interested, google ‘Gamechanger20’ to see the type of alternative ownership that’s becoming popular right now. I know that My point being that they have a long way to go before we start being envious of them but going in the right direction |
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Post by hoppo96 on Dec 3, 2023 16:48:07 GMT
At our peril. Name another club of our size that’s been backed financially like Stoke. Since relegation they have employed several managers to get us back up to where Bet365 are desperate for us to be. Every manager employed has been backed to the hilt to succeed. Even when there was no cash we’ve managed to get some of the best young talent on loan from other clubs ( how many are now playing premier or being successful in the championship) They’ve head hunted the managers they chose from clubs no matter the cost. Obviously the choice of managers haven’t worked out for whatever reason but I don’t believe that’s the Coates family’s fault . Just getting a continental manager doesn’t guarantee anything. The point is if the Coates family keep getting abused by Stoke supporters they could walk away. That would be terrible. Not in the next hundred years will we have owners more able and willing to get us successful. Anyone over 40 yoa must know this. The younger supporters probably think there are people cuing up to run our club. This is not so. We are all frustrated but let’s lay the blame where it belongs. If you don’t agree fine, state your case . Why am I wrong? ok I will thanks. The reason they have go give us so much money is because of mistakes they have made. It's good they don't want it back but they're the custodians of this club, they can't be exempt from criticism. It's clear that John Coates has no idea what he's doing, and for that matter don't think Peter did that much either. "oh thank you Mr Coates for what you've done oh don't worry about the shit results and general feeling of decline we'll accept that don't you worry" we need higher standards. Accepting the 6/7 years of shit because it's too inconvenient to criticise *The Family*... maybe we deserve this shit. |
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Post by bingbang on Dec 3, 2023 16:48:53 GMT
I know he's not everyone's cup of tea, but bringing a football, businessman in to oversee the running of the club is the answer. Step forward Mr.Simon Jordan. Was he the bloke who saw through Pulis despite his results in his part season there and couldn’t get rid of him fast enough when he laid out his plans for the future. If so bring him on. I’d prefer Nicola Cortese myself but no idea whether either want a job. Ye despised Pulis on that grounds alone I'd give him a job. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2023 16:53:35 GMT
Doing very well atm, but early days. They haven't been a decade in the top flight, Europe and a Cup final. Doing well in the Championship that's all to date but going good so far. Achieved nothing yet , difference is one person , the manager. Our job is ideal for the right manager, finding him is the problem. All this poisoned challenge, no one will come here etc is nonsense. Owners who back a manager, stick by a manager as long as they can is a dream job for a good manager. Sadly we have a shite one The problem is THEY pick the manager. Just let a professional outside recruitment company do it. The 'talk a good game' brigade like Jones or Neil would get nowhere near the job. |
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