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Post by 19notbeaten72 on Dec 3, 2023 16:53:55 GMT
Everything wrong with the club is solely down to the Coates family its been one bad decision after another. Going back to the sacking of Hughes which was done at the worst possible time things have gone rapidly down hill. They just do not learn or are incapable of learning & having all the money in the world is totally useless if do not spend it wisely. They have made the club a laughing stock.
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Post by hoppo96 on Dec 3, 2023 16:54:24 GMT
Some fans seem to think we barely had a professional football club before the mid 80s... People talk about the ten years in the Premier League like it was a rare occasion, more than half of our league history has been that of a top flight club. We're not a traditionally small club like a Brentford or Bournemouth, ffs we celebrate the likes of Matthews and Banks and what they did for us.
It's good they have put so much money in and don't want it back, but they're the custodians of this club that was here before then and will be here after them. Just accepting the shit because you don't like asking tough questions will contribute to big chunks of the new generations not wanting anything to do with the club.
They have to take responsibility for who they hire, which players come in (we barely touched the foreign markets before this summer, why???), the general strategy of the club. We had a decades worth of top flight football and off the pitch not sure what we got from it speaking from a fans perspective.
Maybe we're on the right track... but maybe this will be the third relegation to the third tier under the tenure of *The Family*.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Dec 3, 2023 16:55:41 GMT
Because J Coates is a billionair,he must think he can't do anything wrong,like running a football club.
He isn't the brains off the family,his wealth is mainly down to his sister,his father is getting on in years,so decided to hand the running of the club over to him,he hasn't a clue on how-to run a football league club,yet won't employ anyone who does,it's his club & won't let anyone else play with his toy.
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Dec 3, 2023 16:59:02 GMT
They haven't been a decade in the top flight, Europe and a Cup final. Doing well in the Championship that's all to date but going good so far. Achieved nothing yet , difference is one person , the manager. Our job is ideal for the right manager, finding him is the problem. All this poisoned challenge, no one will come here etc is nonsense. Owners who back a manager, stick by a manager as long as they can is a dream job for a good manager. Sadly we have a shite one The problem is THEY pick the manager. Just let a professional outside recruitment company do it. The 'talk a good game' brigade like Jones or Neil would get nowhere near the job. The likes of Villa Forest Leeds and others had the same issue after relegation. Far bigger clubs than us, manager after manager. Hughes and Pulis weren't popular at the time but did good jobs on the whole. Rowett looked good on paper...why they chased Neil have no idea. They've backed managers as much as they can, unfortunately this one is the worst of the bunch
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Post by kidcrewbob on Dec 3, 2023 17:07:41 GMT
The Coates family have been too parochial and resistant to (or ignorant of the need to) change with the times - they are more guilty of naivety than neglect and have put their trust in what have turned out to be high-risk and ultimately bad appointments. Whilst trying to "keep it in the family" they have denied themselves access to high quality professionals experienced in the ways of the modern game that would have taken a far more international approach to recruitment and putting in place a modern structure that enables a coach to deal with the squad and game management whilst allowing others to focus on getting the very best of the market and identification and development of talent. We seem locked in a 70s mentality with an obsession for domestic journeymen managers and doing things old school - the consequences of which have come home to roost these past 4 or 5 years. Its a weird paradox that on the one hand they have B365 making gazillions as one of the foremost tech companies in the world and then SCFC munching on the beer and dog eared sandwiches in the directors box and partying like it's 1974.
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Post by pushon on Dec 3, 2023 17:10:45 GMT
At our peril. Name another club of our size that’s been backed financially like Stoke. Since relegation they have employed several managers to get us back up to where Bet365 are desperate for us to be. Every manager employed has been backed to the hilt to succeed. Even when there was no cash we’ve managed to get some of the best young talent on loan from other clubs ( how many are now playing premier or being successful in the championship) They’ve head hunted the managers they chose from clubs no matter the cost. Obviously the choice of managers haven’t worked out for whatever reason but I don’t believe that’s the Coates family’s fault . Just getting a continental manager doesn’t guarantee anything. The point is if the Coates family keep getting abused by Stoke supporters they could walk away. That would be terrible. Not in the next hundred years will we have owners more able and willing to get us successful. Anyone over 40 yoa must know this. The younger supporters probably think there are people cuing up to run our club. This is not so. We are all frustrated but let’s lay the blame where it belongs. If you don’t agree fine, state your case . Why am I wrong? The blame lies solely with them. They've mismanaged the club to the extent that it's that laden with debt that it's practically unsellable. They also steadfastly refuse to put in place the structures and processes required for a football club such as this to be successful in the modern era, instead putting all their hopes on appointing a manager who will oversee everything and drive progress. It worked with Pulis yes, but that was 15 years ago and the football environment has changed beyond recognition since then. The last 7 years of failure is evidence that they simply don't know how to run the club and are too blinkered or stubborn to admit that they need help. Until they alter their ways (or fuck off and let someone else have a go) absolutely nothing will change. Who is it that you blame might I ask? Let me guess, those dastardly, ungrateful fans... Are you sure that Pulis ran the club? I always thought that Tony Scholes was the 'Chief Executive' who was responsible for the day to day running of the club, as well as being appointed a Main Board Director. Pulis title was,I think, First Team Manager.
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Post by bingbang on Dec 3, 2023 17:12:56 GMT
They had, and still have, the finances for us to get a top European coach, but we know they will never be that forward thinking. How many British managers are actually that good ? most are journeymen like Neil.
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Post by Marc01 on Dec 3, 2023 17:16:17 GMT
They haven't been a decade in the top flight, Europe and a Cup final. Doing well in the Championship that's all to date but going good so far. Achieved nothing yet , difference is one person , the manager. Our job is ideal for the right manager, finding him is the problem. All this poisoned challenge, no one will come here etc is nonsense. Owners who back a manager, stick by a manager as long as they can is a dream job for a good manager. Sadly we have a shite one They only took over the club 2 years ago tbf. For anyone interested, google ‘Gamechanger20’ to see the type of alternative ownership that’s becoming popular right now. I always question the long term commitment of US consortiums but Ipswich have clearly struck gold with their appointment of McKenna. I wonder how it came about? Paul Cook was in charge when they took over in April 2021 and they kept him in situ until late that year. Ipswich finished 11th, 9th and 11th (following relegation from the Championship in 2019) including McKenna’s first half season when they picked up 42 points in 23 games. theathletic.com/4508917/2023/05/12/inside-ipswich-how-us-investment-has-brought-famous-old-club-back-to-life/?amp=1
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2023 17:18:06 GMT
The problem is THEY pick the manager. Just let a professional outside recruitment company do it. The 'talk a good game' brigade like Jones or Neil would get nowhere near the job. The likes of Villa Forest Leeds and others had the same issue after relegation. Far bigger clubs than us, manager after manager. Hughes and Pulis weren't popular at the time but did good jobs on the whole. Rowett looked good on paper...why they chased Neil have no idea. They've backed managers as much as they can, unfortunately this one is the worst of the bunch The backing is not the issue. They need to let someone else find the right person for them to back is my point.
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Post by questionable on Dec 3, 2023 17:20:50 GMT
I rest my case: Yes there’s a guy who works for bet365, who in fact wasn’t that good at his job but watched loads of lower league football so knew his stuff, him being the font of all football related stuff we followed his advice and went balls deep on NJ.
Who in their tiny mind would come out with this, it’s up there with “what’s all the fuss about“
Honestly if JC came up with Bayerns in charge until the end of the season it wouldn’t surprise me.
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Post by robrigo on Dec 3, 2023 17:21:12 GMT
I don’t know what to make of the Coates family and the running of the football club. Clearly, they have the club at heart. They back their managers and give them time for it to work. They also make glaring errors in allowing the manager to have to much power over everything and when it goes wrong they have to rip it up and start again.
I want the Coates to stay, but I want them to be more dynamic and modern in their approach. I’ve never been so low, so meh about supporting this club and I really mean that. Interest is dwindling at a rate of knots even more so than our time in the old 3rd Division. Maybe it’s because I’m older, married with kids so my priorities have changed but my relationship with Stoke City has altered drastically.
The Coates family have seriously ballsed up over this last six years and are in serious danger of erasing the good they did prior to that. There’s no denying that right now the Coates’ have lost their way. I hope they get back on track again asap.
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Post by estrangedsonoffaye on Dec 3, 2023 17:27:25 GMT
I rest my case: Yes there’s a guy who works for bet365, who in fact wasn’t that good at his job but watched loads of lower league football so knew his stuff, him being the font of all football related stuff we followed his advice and went balls deep on NJ. Who in their tiny mind would come out with this, it’s up there with “what’s all the fuss about“ Honestly if JC came up with Bayerns in charge until the end of the season it wouldn’t surprise me. That story sticks with me a lot, one would imagine they didn’t go purely for NJ based on that but you can almost guarantee it played a role in his thinking to the extent he brought it up at a fan event thinking it sounded good? A real eye opener that, I think he’s incredibly naive when it comes to football, Lambert was hired off the back of a “great presentation” too. That along with “we have the technical board which is what clubs like Liverpool do”. Just sounds like someone has told him that and he believes it implicitly without understanding why it works for Liverpool.
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Post by bunnyscfc on Dec 3, 2023 17:29:58 GMT
Quick question.....would they run bet365 like they've run us?
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Post by danceswithclams on Dec 3, 2023 17:33:07 GMT
Quick question.....would they run bet365 like they've run us? That's the kicker ain't it? (The answer of course is 'not in a million years')
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Post by RWChris on Dec 3, 2023 17:36:21 GMT
We have never been a well run club. We had an opportunity for promotion in 2008 in a poor league and managed to do it. We were promoted with less than 80 points. You can obviously only beat what is put in front of you but we weren’t promoted off the back of a few years of progressive improvement.
We then threw an awful lot of money at the Premier League adventure to the point that at one point we were the third highest net-spend in the league. Once we decided that we couldn’t keep up the spending it all unravelled very quickly.
People confused over-achieving with being a well-run club. We overachieved for years. We were not and never have been a well-run club…quite the contrary in fact.
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Post by Ron on Dec 3, 2023 17:37:04 GMT
There’s no doubt they back us but they’re chucking good money at the bad with little sign of thought. They got lucky with Pulis and then Hughes for a while afterwards. They’ve not got lucky since.
The handing of the reigns to John has been the disaster. He’s fucking clueless and is spending too much time listening to his Bet365 yes men. Fact his yes men appointed Jones.
Right now the approach Martin and the other bloke seem to be taking doesn’t seem compatible with a manager like Neil. We also went far too OTT with the turnover and there was no need to sign as many as we did in one go.
Scarily we didn’t get what we needed- a man champo back line. McNally is fine but the rest- Jesus wept they’re wank.
Good sides are built from the back- all the best sides have superbwr keepers and back line. You build from there.
The Travers debacle 100% the clubs fault. I rate him - but if the deal wasn’t right fucking move on there were others about.
Very poor business all round- only Pearson ( half the time) Burger and McNally (who’s had his moments) look good enough for the here and now. Vidigal looked a little hungrier yesterday and has quality- just seems a wet lettuace for the good times. Rest of the new forwards are poor and no better than what we had before.
Just disastrous.
I’m sick of moaning. I’m sick of some shooting me and others down for moaning. But after 6.5 years of shot we just need some hope.
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Post by kidcrewbob on Dec 3, 2023 17:38:35 GMT
Quick question.....would they run bet365 like they've run us? ….as I posted above - this is the paradox….
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Post by baconburger on Dec 3, 2023 17:41:37 GMT
They haven't been a decade in the top flight, Europe and a Cup final. Doing well in the Championship that's all to date but going good so far. Achieved nothing yet , difference is one person , the manager. Our job is ideal for the right manager, finding him is the problem. All this poisoned challenge, no one will come here etc is nonsense. Owners who back a manager, stick by a manager as long as they can is a dream job for a good manager. Sadly we have a shite one The problem is THEY pick the manager. Just let a professional outside recruitment company do it. The 'talk a good game' brigade like Jones or Neil would get nowhere near the job. Exactly their taste and understanding of what successful modern football looks like is decades out of date.
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Post by wazbagsbro on Dec 3, 2023 17:42:23 GMT
At our peril. Name another club of our size that’s been backed financially like Stoke. Since relegation they have employed several managers to get us back up to where Bet365 are desperate for us to be. Every manager employed has been backed to the hilt to succeed. Even when there was no cash we’ve managed to get some of the best young talent on loan from other clubs ( how many are now playing premier or being successful in the championship) They’ve head hunted the managers they chose from clubs no matter the cost. Obviously the choice of managers haven’t worked out for whatever reason but I don’t believe that’s the Coates family’s fault . Just getting a continental manager doesn’t guarantee anything. The point is if the Coates family keep getting abused by Stoke supporters they could walk away. That would be terrible. Not in the next hundred years will we have owners more able and willing to get us successful. Anyone over 40 yoa must know this. The younger supporters probably think there are people cuing up to run our club. This is not so. We are all frustrated but let’s lay the blame where it belongs. If you don’t agree fine, state your case . Why am I wrong? The blame lies solely with them. They've mismanaged the club to the extent that it's that laden with debt that it's practically unsellable. They also steadfastly refuse to put in place the structures and processes required for a football club such as this to be successful in the modern era, instead putting all their hopes on appointing a manager who will oversee everything and drive progress. It worked with Pulis yes, but that was 15 years ago and the football environment has changed beyond recognition since then. The last 7 years of failure is evidence that they simply don't know how to run the club and are too blinkered or stubborn to admit that they need help. Until they alter their ways (or fuck off and let someone else have a go) absolutely nothing will change. Who is it that you blame might I ask? Let me guess, those dastardly, ungrateful fans... Of course I don’t blame the fans, I just don’t think we should demonise the Coates family when they have made the decisions they believe are correct and backed it up with millions of pounds. We are not saddled with debt at all
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Post by neddy on Dec 3, 2023 17:42:48 GMT
I think a lot of the criticism above is very unfair and is a bit over the top personally. It’s down to managers appointed as they back them completely.
You can’t pick one and guarantee success. I genuinely think with the last two they got the best they could. We all want success but we will never all agree on who they should get.
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Post by peterthornesboots on Dec 3, 2023 17:43:29 GMT
The reality is that they have overseen almost a decade of failure.
- Needlessly relegated from the Premier League. - Blew three years of parachute payments. - Almost relegated to the their tier. - Hamstrung the club through FFP. - 5 successive bottom half finishes in The Championship.
If a foreign owner had this record with the club then the supporters would be up in arms about it.
The truth is that I do not want new owners. I genuinely believe that the Coates family have the best interests of Stoke City at heart and have looked to invest in the club whenever possible.
However, those at the top of the club need to take a hard, long look in the mirror and figure out how we went from an established Premier League club to one which is flirting with the possibility of playing in third tier soon.
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Post by baconburger on Dec 3, 2023 17:46:22 GMT
The problem is THEY pick the manager. Just let a professional outside recruitment company do it. The 'talk a good game' brigade like Jones or Neil would get nowhere near the job. The likes of Villa Forest Leeds and others had the same issue after relegation. Far bigger clubs than us, manager after manager. Hughes and Pulis weren't popular at the time but did good jobs on the whole. Rowett looked good on paper...why they chased Neil have no idea. They've backed managers as much as they can, unfortunately this one is the worst of the bunch Kind of goes a bit wrong at the start where you describe Forest as a big club. What exactly is their history before Clough in the 70’s. They weren’t even the biggest club in Nottingham.
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Post by kidcrewbob on Dec 3, 2023 17:47:57 GMT
I think a lot of the criticism above is very unfair and is a bit over the top personally. It’s down to managers appointed as they back them completely. You can’t pick one and guarantee success. I genuinely think with the last two they got the best they could. We all know any success but we will never all agree on who they should get. The last two were nowhere near “the best” - they were what matched the clubs very narrow view of potential candidates - we’ve got to stop poaching in-role bad managers the clubs of whom we have to disproportionately compensate - as it rarely works - look at Potter and Chelsea as a prime example……..
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Post by neddy on Dec 3, 2023 17:50:41 GMT
I meant they were probably the best out of those available?
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Post by questionable on Dec 3, 2023 17:59:06 GMT
I rest my case: Yes there’s a guy who works for bet365, who in fact wasn’t that good at his job but watched loads of lower league football so knew his stuff, him being the font of all football related stuff we followed his advice and went balls deep on NJ. Who in their tiny mind would come out with this, it’s up there with “what’s all the fuss about“ Honestly if JC came up with Bayerns in charge until the end of the season it wouldn’t surprise me. That story sticks with me a lot, one would imagine they didn’t go purely for NJ based on that but you can almost guarantee it played a role in his thinking to the extent he brought it up at a fan event thinking it sounded good? A real eye opener that, I think he’s incredibly naive when it comes to football, Lambert was hired off the back of a “great presentation” too. That along with “we have the technical board which is what clubs like Liverpool do”. Just sounds like someone has told him that and he believes it implicitly without understanding why it works for Liverpool. NJ got the job based on a power point presentation I was told
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Post by danceswithclams on Dec 3, 2023 18:30:22 GMT
We are not saddled with debt at all Are you sure about that? Look again.
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Post by skip on Dec 3, 2023 18:34:31 GMT
Nepo Baby is the problem.
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Post by march4 on Dec 3, 2023 18:36:13 GMT
Blaming the Coates Family! I’ve heard it all now.
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Post by wakeypotter on Dec 3, 2023 18:53:02 GMT
Blaming the Coates Family! I’ve heard it all now. Well who else is it March And don’t say the fans It’s the owners that get the incompetent managers
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Post by hoppo96 on Dec 3, 2023 19:09:15 GMT
The Coates family have been too parochial and resistant to (or ignorant of the need to) change with the times - they are more guilty of naivety than neglect and have put their trust in what have turned out to be high-risk and ultimately bad appointments. Whilst trying to "keep it in the family" they have denied themselves access to high quality professionals experienced in the ways of the modern game that would have taken a far more international approach to recruitment and putting in place a modern structure that enables a coach to deal with the squad and game management whilst allowing others to focus on getting the very best of the market and identification and development of talent. We seem locked in a 70s mentality with an obsession for domestic journeymen managers and doing things old school - the consequences of which have come home to roost these past 4 or 5 years. Its a weird paradox that on the one hand they have B365 making gazillions as one of the foremost tech companies in the world and then SCFC munching on the beer and dog eared sandwiches in the directors box and partying like it's 1974. I think SCFC isn't a venture they can massively profit from, it's a loss maker so it's why a lot of the off pitch stuff feels half-arsed.
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