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Post by mrcoke on Jan 3, 2024 19:41:00 GMT
“Lewis Baker scored eight goals in 20 starts and one substitute appearance under Michael O'Neill after joining from Chelsea on a free transfer in January 2022……He scored four times in his first eight appearances of 2022/23 as O'Neill made way for Alex Neil“. Let’s hope SS can get the best out of Baker. AN didn’t have a bloody clue how to use him. I was struck by your stats and have read up his career. He seems to have a problem with sustaining his commitment - starts well at clubs then fades away. Has never settled anywhere and no one seems to want him. He seems not to get on well with some managers. Pulis took over at Boro and didn't play Baker. Clearly Neil had little time for him. Putting 2 + 2 together (and possibly making 5!) I suspect he does not respond well to a heavy management hand, and is the type of person who is better motivated by encouragement, praise, and given more freedom. At 28 with a low down Championship club, I'd suggest his career is in the last chance salon.
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Post by nonameface on Jan 3, 2024 20:03:46 GMT
Struggle to score goals so reintroduce a midfielder who's xg puts him in top 10%, xa puts him in ths top 20%, and a top 1/3 short passer. He's a poor tackler, but surprisingly excellent in the air.
Good move Schumacher.
If he can get him back to the form he had pre Neil we have an outstanding player back.
We had the W's under Pulis, is it the B's under Schumacher?
Burger, Bae, Baker.
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Post by cvillestokie on Jan 3, 2024 21:33:02 GMT
“Lewis Baker scored eight goals in 20 starts and one substitute appearance under Michael O'Neill after joining from Chelsea on a free transfer in January 2022……He scored four times in his first eight appearances of 2022/23 as O'Neill made way for Alex Neil“. Let’s hope SS can get the best out of Baker. AN didn’t have a bloody clue how to use him. I was struck by your stats and have read up his career. He seems to have a problem with sustaining his commitment - starts well at clubs then fades away. Has never settled anywhere and no one seems to want him. He seems not to get on well with some managers. Pulis took over at Boro and didn't play Baker. Clearly Neil had little time for him. Putting 2 + 2 together (and possibly making 5!) I suspect he does not respond well to a heavy management hand, and is the type of person who is better motivated by encouragement, praise, and given more freedom. At 28 with a low down Championship club, I'd suggest his career is in the last chance salon. Perhaps, or he could have just milked his career for what it was. He was a product of the Chelsea academy vacuum: ie, we’ll sign everyone then make you pay far more for them each year than you should. I don’t particularly blame him for continuing to re-sign contracts with them as it must be kind of nice to get sent around to somewhere new every 12 months in your early 20’s, and at least he was playing for someone. Pulis may well have dropped him because he’s not a good cage midfielder. AN may well have dropped him because he liked 8s that didn’t create goals and simply just ran around (Smallbone and Laurent). Baker is an average midfielder with a goal in him. I personally think that’s better than having an average midfielder (eg Laurent, DJ) without goals in them.
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Post by Championship Potter on Jan 3, 2024 21:55:58 GMT
I was struck by your stats and have read up his career. He seems to have a problem with sustaining his commitment - starts well at clubs then fades away. Has never settled anywhere and no one seems to want him. He seems not to get on well with some managers. Pulis took over at Boro and didn't play Baker. Clearly Neil had little time for him. Putting 2 + 2 together (and possibly making 5!) I suspect he does not respond well to a heavy management hand, and is the type of person who is better motivated by encouragement, praise, and given more freedom. At 28 with a low down Championship club, I'd suggest his career is in the last chance salon. Perhaps, or he could have just milked his career for what it was. He was a product of the Chelsea academy vacuum: ie, we’ll sign everyone then make you pay far more for them each year than you should. I don’t particularly blame him for continuing to re-sign contracts with them as it must be kind of nice to get sent around to somewhere new every 12 months in your early 20’s, and at least he was playing for someone. Pulis may well have dropped him because he’s not a good cage midfielder. AN may well have dropped him because he liked 8s that didn’t create goals and simply just ran around (Smallbone and Laurent). Baker is an average midfielder with a goal in him. I personally think that’s better than having an average midfielder (eg Laurent, DJ) without goals in them. I’d agree with this. To have aspirations of promotion you really need goals from wingers, centre mids and the centre backs. The last team we were promoted we had around 10 from Cresswell and 15 from Lawrence on the wings, then Cort chipped in with 10 from centre back, and I think Shawcross had 7 or 8 as well. If Baker chips in with 10+ goals over a season that’s potentially worth a lot of points.
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Post by Discovery Stoke on Mar 12, 2024 7:21:33 GMT
Feel like he needs a bit of a mention.... If we stay up the re-introduction of Baker will be one of the main reasons we do so in my opinion. Look at the goals we are scoring at the minute (which wont take long), his set piece deliveries are bang on the money every singe time and if Rose didn't have a toblerone for a head he would have a few more assists to his name. He clearly cares and you can see why MON gave him the captaincy when he was the gaffer here
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Post by PotteringThrough on Mar 12, 2024 8:29:22 GMT
Feel like he needs a bit of a mention.... If we stay up the re-introduction of Baker will be one of the main reasons we do so in my opinion. Look at the goals we are scoring at the minute (which wont take long), his set piece deliveries are bang on the money every singe time and if Rose didn't have a toblerone for a head he would have a few more assists to his name. He clearly cares and you can see why MON gave him the captaincy when he was the gaffer here He’s definitely discovered a new lease of life under Schumacher. His work rate is impressing me at the moment, very much willing to get stuck in and probably a side of his game I hadn’t fully acknowledged previously. He’s acting like a leader on the pitch which is great because we need as many of them as possible. His ability on the ball has always been there it’s just been a case of applying himself and not seemingly losing interest which you could arguably say has happened. He’s come back in and really taken his chance. He’s playing a big part in the team, & as you say, particularly with his quality from the dead ball.
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Baker
Mar 12, 2024 8:59:35 GMT
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Post by boskampsflaps on Mar 12, 2024 8:59:35 GMT
Feel like he needs a bit of a mention.... If we stay up the re-introduction of Baker will be one of the main reasons we do so in my opinion. Look at the goals we are scoring at the minute (which wont take long), his set piece deliveries are bang on the money every singe time and if Rose didn't have a toblerone for a head he would have a few more assists to his name. He clearly cares and you can see why MON gave him the captaincy when he was the gaffer here Apart from last min when he passed it side ways to Gooch 😂 If SS decides he wants to go back to the way he prefers playing next season he won't cope, he's not much use bar his shooting now and then, I'd see if we can get a decent amount for him and reinvest.
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Post by jordan2009 on Mar 12, 2024 9:14:35 GMT
Feel like he needs a bit of a mention.... If we stay up the re-introduction of Baker will be one of the main reasons we do so in my opinion. Look at the goals we are scoring at the minute (which wont take long), his set piece deliveries are bang on the money every singe time and if Rose didn't have a toblerone for a head he would have a few more assists to his name. He clearly cares and you can see why MON gave him the captaincy when he was the gaffer here I haven't been a big fan of Lewis. The lads got undoubted quality, I've just not been a fan of his battling qualities. However hands up, he's been really decent this last 3/4 games. Hes stepped up, grafted and got stuck in. Well done Lewis lad
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Baker
Mar 12, 2024 9:16:42 GMT
gawa likes this
Post by biglad180 on Mar 12, 2024 9:16:42 GMT
if Lewis wants to stay here then i would hold on to him he as goals in him and a good set piece taker
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Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 12, 2024 9:21:04 GMT
Feel like he needs a bit of a mention.... If we stay up the re-introduction of Baker will be one of the main reasons we do so in my opinion. Look at the goals we are scoring at the minute (which wont take long), his set piece deliveries are bang on the money every singe time and if Rose didn't have a toblerone for a head he would have a few more assists to his name. He clearly cares and you can see why MON gave him the captaincy when he was the gaffer here Apart from last min when he passed it side ways to Gooch 😂 If SS decides he wants to go back to the way he prefers playing next season he won't cope, he's not much use bar his shooting now and then, I'd see if we can get a decent amount for him and reinvest. This is what backing yourself into a corner and being unable to show contrition or humility looks like folks...............
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Baker
Mar 12, 2024 9:28:47 GMT
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Post by chiswickpotter on Mar 12, 2024 9:28:47 GMT
Apart from last min when he passed it side ways to Gooch 😂 If SS decides he wants to go back to the way he prefers playing next season he won't cope, he's not much use bar his shooting now and then, I'd see if we can get a decent amount for him and reinvest. This is what backing yourself into a corner and being unable to show contrition or humility looks like folks............... I disagree, the analysis is spot on. While we are playing a restricted game and looking to bypass midfield, Baker’s physicality is okay. If we want to play from the back and press aggressively, he doesn’t have the passing range, dribbling skills or pace required. Our position means we are willing to accept tactics we would have crucified previous managers for.
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Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 12, 2024 9:31:27 GMT
This is what backing yourself into a corner and being unable to show contrition or humility looks like folks............... I disagree, the analysis is spot on. While we are playing a restricted game and looking to bypass midfield, Baker’s physicality is okay. If we want to play from the back and press aggressively, he doesn’t have the passing range, dribbling skills or pace required. Our position means we are willing to accept tactics we would have crucified previous managers for. He can't bring himself to give Baker one ounce of credit despite his good performances of late, that was my point. And I disagree Baker couldn't play in a more progressive set up, his passing range with both feet I might add is absolutely fine.......
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Baker
Mar 12, 2024 9:40:45 GMT
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Post by theonlooker on Mar 12, 2024 9:40:45 GMT
One of my bug bears with Baker is his physicality, lack of and his refusal to do a lot of work facing his own goal.
He's very up and down with that IMO but was fine on Saturday and was fine against Boro.
Ultimately we need better if we want to progress in this division.
Bar Burger I think our central midfield is just dreadful.
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Post by femark on Mar 12, 2024 9:53:40 GMT
This is what backing yourself into a corner and being unable to show contrition or humility looks like folks............... I disagree, the analysis is spot on. While we are playing a restricted game and looking to bypass midfield, Baker’s physicality is okay. If we want to play from the back and press aggressively, he doesn’t have the passing range, dribbling skills or pace required. Our position means we are willing to accept tactics we would have crucified previous managers for. He's one of the best passers of the ball in the squad and a passing game suits him. It's the tracking back, pressing and defensive work that usually lets him down, however, under Schumacher it has been good.
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Post by Staffsoatcake on Mar 12, 2024 9:56:19 GMT
With our lack of goals from open play,he is the most important player on the pitch,until we sort that out.
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Post by clintonbaptiste on Mar 12, 2024 10:10:11 GMT
He is going be pivotal in our relegation battle, he already has been. If its not goals its his set piece delivery that is vital for us and his importance shouldn't be underestimated and hands up I'd have happily seen hime gone 3 months ago but hes proving his worth ATM.
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Post by Gary Hackett on Mar 12, 2024 10:16:32 GMT
One of my bug bears with Baker is his physicality, lack of and his refusal to do a lot of work facing his own goal. He's very up and down with that IMO but was fine on Saturday and was fine against Boro. Ultimately we need better if we want to progress in this division. Bar Burger I think our central midfield is just dreadful. If you think our midfield is dreadful what does it say about the defence and forward line 🤣 The midfield is the strongest part of the team currently.
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Post by mickstupp on Mar 12, 2024 10:41:13 GMT
He’s a central midfielder with an excellent goal scoring record in a team that can’t score goals. He’s got to play despite his other faults.
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Baker
Mar 12, 2024 10:53:04 GMT
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Post by boskampsflaps on Mar 12, 2024 10:53:04 GMT
Apart from last min when he passed it side ways to Gooch 😂 If SS decides he wants to go back to the way he prefers playing next season he won't cope, he's not much use bar his shooting now and then, I'd see if we can get a decent amount for him and reinvest. This is what backing yourself into a corner and being unable to show contrition or humility looks like folks............... Not really, his shooting has been useful and has won us some points recently, that doesn't suddenly mean he can pass a ball or be create chances, he's still a very limited footballer and isn't going to help us push on. But yeh as you were ..........................................................................................
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Baker
Mar 12, 2024 10:54:27 GMT
via mobile
Post by boskampsflaps on Mar 12, 2024 10:54:27 GMT
I disagree, the analysis is spot on. While we are playing a restricted game and looking to bypass midfield, Baker’s physicality is okay. If we want to play from the back and press aggressively, he doesn’t have the passing range, dribbling skills or pace required. Our position means we are willing to accept tactics we would have crucified previous managers for. He's one of the best passers of the ball in the squad and a passing game suits him. It's the tracking back, pressing and defensive work that usually lets him down, however, under Schumacher it has been good. No he's not 😂😂
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Post by dirtygary69 on Mar 12, 2024 11:16:24 GMT
To be fair (might even be on this thread) I thought he was done at Stoke and didn't see any sort of revival coming from his side so 100% credit to him on that point. I do agree that in an ideal Schumacher system, he'd probably struggle to get a game; however, if Schumacher is as smart as he seems having altered his style to match what best suits the squad, then I think he would be daft to do away with this formation/style completely if it carries on like this to the end of the season. We will still have a lot of these players who are key in this system next season (obviously some will leave) so I don't think he can abandon it completely. I don't even think this style is that basic or safe, it just seems like a solid way of playing and we are turning in good performances - I don't care if it's not pass, pass, pass. Heart, aggression and attacking with purpose is equally enjoyable.
But, back to Baker, I think he's better the less you see of him in-game. If he has the ball too much, I think he makes too many mistakes, especially in deeper positions. He's clearly got fantastic ability from set pieces, but that doesn't always show when the ball is in play and he can be very hit and miss. He's also not quite mobile enough to play as a 2 in a midfield I don't think but he works well with Burger and Laurent around him. It's working well at the moment though, and long may it continue. He's probably one of the best set piece takers in this division so he's sometimes worth a place on the pitch for that, especially as we appear to be looking to win more free kicks and corners.
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Post by cheekymatt71 on Mar 12, 2024 11:33:47 GMT
Always thought Baker was a class player for us in the Championship and still believe that.
I dont get why he is playing deeper than Laurent though - surely their roles should be reversed. Laurent is better defensively than Baker, and Baker is better further up front.
I actually think the midfield 3 are all doing pretty well at the moment. Its hard to completely dominate a game in the Championship, but the last few games I would say we have mostly been in control of games and on the front foot - even 2nd half against Leeds we were on top after they pissed all over us first half.
The problems certainly lie in defence (always some awful mistake at the back EVERY game) and upfront - completely goal shy.
Keep Berger- Laurent - Baker as much as possible for the next games and they will continue to grow and improve in their roles.
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Post by PotterLog on Mar 12, 2024 11:45:44 GMT
I disagree, the analysis is spot on. While we are playing a restricted game and looking to bypass midfield, Baker’s physicality is okay. If we want to play from the back and press aggressively, he doesn’t have the passing range, dribbling skills or pace required. Our position means we are willing to accept tactics we would have crucified previous managers for. He can't bring himself to give Baker one ounce of credit despite his good performances of late, that was my point. And I disagree Baker couldn't play in a more progressive set up, his passing range with both feet I might add is absolutely fine....... He’s probably the second best passer we’ve got isn’t he? Guess you could say that doesn’t take much but it’s a weird criticism to aim at him
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Post by prestwichpotter on Mar 12, 2024 11:55:11 GMT
He can't bring himself to give Baker one ounce of credit despite his good performances of late, that was my point. And I disagree Baker couldn't play in a more progressive set up, his passing range with both feet I might add is absolutely fine....... He’s probably the second best passer we’ve got isn’t he? Guess you could say that doesn’t take much but it’s a weird criticism to aim at him 85.3% success rate, just below Ben Pearson. Also has the most successful crosses per game in the squad (1.7) compared to Johnson who is 2nd (0.9) and the highest key passes per game (1.5) again Johnson is next (1.2)
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Baker
Mar 12, 2024 11:58:48 GMT
via mobile
Post by theonlooker on Mar 12, 2024 11:58:48 GMT
One of my bug bears with Baker is his physicality, lack of and his refusal to do a lot of work facing his own goal. He's very up and down with that IMO but was fine on Saturday and was fine against Boro. Ultimately we need better if we want to progress in this division. Bar Burger I think our central midfield is just dreadful. If you think our midfield is dreadful what does it say about the defence and forward line 🤣 The midfield is the strongest part of the team currently. I wouldn't disagree with that. Take Burger out of there and the midfield is just as bad as the rest of the side IMO.
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Baker
Mar 12, 2024 12:47:29 GMT
Post by maine on Mar 12, 2024 12:47:29 GMT
If just because of his set piece ability Baker edges Laurent. It's rare for either to beat a man, and when they do they're too slow to break away or find a colleague in a good position. Nevertheless at this point Baker is a better option than Cundle, though Cundle is a more skilled player and has greater potential.
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Post by idle on Mar 12, 2024 12:57:21 GMT
He’s probably the second best passer we’ve got isn’t he? Guess you could say that doesn’t take much but it’s a weird criticism to aim at him 85.3% success rate, just below Ben Pearson. Also has the most successful crosses per game in the squad (1.7) compared to Johnson who is 2nd (0.9) and the highest key passes per game (1.5) again Johnson is next (1.2) Those successful crosses include set pieces. Which isn't a bad thing, it's just a bit misleading.
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Baker
Mar 12, 2024 13:31:44 GMT
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Post by femark on Mar 12, 2024 13:31:44 GMT
He's one of the best passers of the ball in the squad and a passing game suits him. It's the tracking back, pressing and defensive work that usually lets him down, however, under Schumacher it has been good. No he's not 😂😂 I’d say that stats and general consensus is proving you wrong.
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Baker
Mar 12, 2024 15:14:26 GMT
Post by idle on Mar 12, 2024 15:14:26 GMT
I’d say that stats and general consensus is proving you wrong. Not really. 83.5% accuracy (short passes) is bang average in the champinship. His long pass accuracy is even worse, at 45.9%, which is down in the 40th percentile of all players in the CS. Compare this to Pearson (86.2%, 61.6%), Burger (77.3%, 50.7%), Laurent (77.9%, 38.3%), Bae (82.2%, 46.7%) and Thompson (79.3%, 39.4%), and he's pretty average at passing. (Stats from FotMob)
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Baker
Mar 12, 2024 15:45:32 GMT
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Post by boskampsflaps on Mar 12, 2024 15:45:32 GMT
I’d say that stats and general consensus is proving you wrong. You are kidding right, Burger is by far the best passer we have and have had in a long time. General consensus 😂
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