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Post by Gods on Oct 20, 2023 21:25:16 GMT
I had the car in for a 'service while you wait' in the VW garage today.
As usual it was a 'service while you wait a long time'!
Which was okay because it gave me time to look at the new cars without someone trying to sell me one.
I can't decide if there is one last petrol engine car left in me before I make the inevitable move to electric.
I kind of feel like there are still not enough public charging points to go electric quite apart from the high cost of electric vehicles.
But what is the story with a 'hybrid'. I mean do you literally have to put both fuel AND electricity in it? I mean that sounds like a complete ball ache.
My current thinking is to enjoy one last petrol engine car while you still can and then make the move to full blown electric a few years after that by which time hopefully the charging situation is sorted and the electric car prices have come down.
Make sense, or not?
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Post by superjw on Oct 20, 2023 21:53:05 GMT
I personally wouldn’t go near full electric myself, far too expensive and electric prices don’t do them justice anymore. As you say the charging point infrastructure just isn’t good enough really. I had the opportunity last year to have one through work but I needed to find myself a home charger - over £1000 quote for one of them fast charging ones!!
I’ve got a self charging hybrid myself, Toyota one. Has petrol engine and a battery that’s charged via the engine and braking so it’s capable of full EV mode. I love mine and I’ve had them for years, Toyota have years on almost every manufacturer on hybrids. Only thing with them is they have to be driven properly, drive it like you stole it and it won’t return good economy. But with todays fuel prices, who can go around booting their car anyway!
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Post by mtrstudent on Oct 20, 2023 21:58:39 GMT
I personally wouldn’t go near full electric myself, far too expensive and electric prices don’t do them justice anymore. As you say the charging point infrastructure just isn’t good enough really. I had the opportunity last year to have one through work but I needed to find myself a home charger - over £1000 quote for one of them fast charging ones!! I’ve got a self charging hybrid myself, Toyota one. Has petrol engine and a battery that’s charged via the engine and braking so it’s capable of full EV mode. I love mine and I’ve had them for years, Toyota have years on almost every manufacturer on hybrids. Only thing with them is they have to be driven properly, drive it like you stole it and it won’t return good economy. But with todays fuel prices, who can go around booting their car anyway! Couple of work mates got the plug in hybrids - Volt and Prius. They're chuffed. They drive about 15 miles each way and recharge at work, so that's like 6k miles a year done on electric anyway. |
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Post by tuum on Oct 21, 2023 2:31:47 GMT
I personally wouldn’t go near full electric myself, far too expensive and electric prices don’t do them justice anymore. As you say the charging point infrastructure just isn’t good enough really. I had the opportunity last year to have one through work but I needed to find myself a home charger - over £1000 quote for one of them fast charging ones!! I’ve got a self charging hybrid myself, Toyota one. Has petrol engine and a battery that’s charged via the engine and braking so it’s capable of full EV mode. I love mine and I’ve had them for years, Toyota have years on almost every manufacturer on hybrids. Only thing with them is they have to be driven properly, drive it like you stole it and it won’t return good economy. But with todays fuel prices, who can go around booting their car anyway! Couple of work mates got the plug in hybrids - Volt and Prius. They're chuffed. They drive about 15 miles each way and recharge at work, so that's like 6k miles a year done on electric anyway. 15 miles? At that range they should be ditching their cars and cycling to work. Good for their health and good for the environment! Lazy gits! |
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Post by mtrstudent on Oct 21, 2023 2:47:21 GMT
Couple of work mates got the plug in hybrids - Volt and Prius. They're chuffed. They drive about 15 miles each way and recharge at work, so that's like 6k miles a year done on electric anyway. 15 miles? At that range they should be ditching their cars and cycling to work. Good for their health and good for the environment! Lazy gits! I'd be fine with that but one of them sits next to me and how do I make sure she doesn't get too sweaty? 🤔 |
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Post by dave1 on Oct 21, 2023 6:24:15 GMT
I have a full electric motor and it's sound. As I have a home charger I very rarely need to use the public infrastructure.
I'd only consider not buying one if I was doing round trips that were greater than the cars range, this would be become a problem if you were travelling within range then there is nothing to worry about.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Oct 21, 2023 7:43:38 GMT
It’s a waiting game for me. Don’t like the idea of being forced into buying something I don't want, a bit like the air source heat boilers thingy. I currently drive a Ford Kuga but do my bit as far as possible by paying an extra 10p per litre for premium diesel which is friendlier on the environment. Oh and I’ve also got solar panels…….on my Seiko watch. I’m sure alternatives to EVs will evolve something like a synthetic fuel for which existing engine can be converted would be the way to go imo. Did you know that the average human exhales over 100 times more C02 than we inhale in every breath we take. It can be 8 times greater when doing strenuous activity. It is estimated globally people produce over 8 million tons of CO2 every day or nearly 3 billion tons per year just by breathing. Add to this the animal population and it’s many, many time more. Putting this into context, globally, vehicles produce around the same as humans exhale per year.
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Post by shakermaker on Oct 21, 2023 8:15:27 GMT
I personally wouldn’t go near full electric myself, far too expensive and electric prices don’t do them justice anymore. As you say the charging point infrastructure just isn’t good enough really. I had the opportunity last year to have one through work but I needed to find myself a home charger - over £1000 quote for one of them fast charging ones!! I’ve got a self charging hybrid myself, Toyota one. Has petrol engine and a battery that’s charged via the engine and braking so it’s capable of full EV mode. I love mine and I’ve had them for years, Toyota have years on almost every manufacturer on hybrids. Only thing with them is they have to be driven properly, drive it like you stole it and it won’t return good economy. But with todays fuel prices, who can go around booting their car anyway! For me, in addition to the infrastructure not being in place, the size of the batteries aren’t big enough for the distance that I travel. For instance, I do a monthly drive from Bristol to Stoke. There aren’t any cars with a battery charge that can handle that kind of distance, and I don’t want to be adding more time on my journey sat at Frankley Services for an hour waiting for the car to charge or even worse, a nightmare scenario of not being able to find an available charger and then becoming stranded on the motorway with two 6 y/olds in the back and a wife giving me constant grief while waiting for help! |
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Post by Gods on Oct 21, 2023 9:21:10 GMT
Thanks guys, unless you have space on your drive for a home charger and you don't really go anywhere far it still feels too soon to me.
Although I am sure there will come a cross over point where its a job to find a petrol station!
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Post by bigjohnritchie on Oct 21, 2023 9:36:53 GMT
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Post by lawrieleslie on Oct 21, 2023 10:11:05 GMT
I remember the arrogant prick Quentin Wilson on 5th Gear few years ago trying to extol the virtues of EVs. At that time batteries had a 5-6 year average lifespan and he tried to justify the cost of replacing a battery by saying the average diesel/petrol car needs a new engine every 5-6 years. Really Quentin you idiot, tell that to my Skoda Octavia that was still as sweet as a nut at 15 years old having done 180k when I sold it few years ago. |
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Post by Dutchpeter on Oct 21, 2023 10:12:56 GMT
I think the EV is typical of the ‘good ideas club’ mentality that seems prevalent, ie implementing or trying to perfect bad or impractical ideas. You’d have thought communism or poll tax should have taught us a lesson or two about that. Hybrids are the best medium term solution, Submarines have used the same idea for over a century so it’s a proven concept. I think many of us are hoping bio fuels or hydrogen technologies will be the long term solution. To me EV’s are the 8 track cartridge or Betamax of the 21st century.
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Post by tuum on Oct 21, 2023 10:16:14 GMT
I personally wouldn’t go near full electric myself, far too expensive and electric prices don’t do them justice anymore. As you say the charging point infrastructure just isn’t good enough really. I had the opportunity last year to have one through work but I needed to find myself a home charger - over £1000 quote for one of them fast charging ones!! I’ve got a self charging hybrid myself, Toyota one. Has petrol engine and a battery that’s charged via the engine and braking so it’s capable of full EV mode. I love mine and I’ve had them for years, Toyota have years on almost every manufacturer on hybrids. Only thing with them is they have to be driven properly, drive it like you stole it and it won’t return good economy. But with todays fuel prices, who can go around booting their car anyway! For me, in addition to the infrastructure not being in place, the size of the batteries aren’t big enough for the distance that I travel. For instance, I do a monthly drive from Bristol to Stoke. There aren’t any cars with a battery charge that can handle that kind of distance, and I don’t want to be adding more time on my journey sat at Frankley Services for an hour waiting for the car to charge or even worse, a nightmare scenario of not being able to find an available charger and then becoming stranded on the motorway with two 6 y/olds in the back and a wife giving me constant grief while waiting for help! Instead of changing cars it might be a better (& cheaper?)option to change your wife if she gives you as much grief as you imply. 🤔 |
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Post by ParaPsych on Oct 21, 2023 10:26:50 GMT
I personally wouldn’t go near full electric myself, far too expensive and electric prices don’t do them justice anymore. As you say the charging point infrastructure just isn’t good enough really. I had the opportunity last year to have one through work but I needed to find myself a home charger - over £1000 quote for one of them fast charging ones!! I’ve got a self charging hybrid myself, Toyota one. Has petrol engine and a battery that’s charged via the engine and braking so it’s capable of full EV mode. I love mine and I’ve had them for years, Toyota have years on almost every manufacturer on hybrids. Only thing with them is they have to be driven properly, drive it like you stole it and it won’t return good economy. But with todays fuel prices, who can go around booting their car anyway! For me, in addition to the infrastructure not being in place, the size of the batteries aren’t big enough for the distance that I travel. For instance, I do a monthly drive from Bristol to Stoke. There aren’t any cars with a battery charge that can handle that kind of distance, and I don’t want to be adding more time on my journey sat at Frankley Services for an hour waiting for the car to charge or even worse, a nightmare scenario of not being able to find an available charger and then becoming stranded on the motorway with two 6 y/olds in the back and a wife giving me constant grief while waiting for help! There are loads of them that can easily handle a 300 mile round trip. Some are pushing 400 now. |
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Post by frasier37 on Oct 21, 2023 10:46:06 GMT
Definitely self charging hybrid
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Post by lawrieleslie on Oct 21, 2023 11:19:29 GMT
For me, in addition to the infrastructure not being in place, the size of the batteries aren’t big enough for the distance that I travel. For instance, I do a monthly drive from Bristol to Stoke. There aren’t any cars with a battery charge that can handle that kind of distance, and I don’t want to be adding more time on my journey sat at Frankley Services for an hour waiting for the car to charge or even worse, a nightmare scenario of not being able to find an available charger and then becoming stranded on the motorway with two 6 y/olds in the back and a wife giving me constant grief while waiting for help! There are loads of them that can easily handle a 300 mile round trip. Some are pushing 400 now. That’s the advertised range but I bet most will do 75% or less of this. When you factor in night driving, poor weather when lights, wipers, blower and heater are needed and AC in the summer. Few weeks ago I drove from Plymouth to Bristol in very poor weather, heavy rain and mist, we were gobsmacked at the number of cars with no lights on. We then looked a bit closer and it was clear that the vast majority were EVs obviously trying to conserve battery range at the expense of road safety. In a few years after we’ve been dragged kicking and screaming into this futile method of transportation, it may well become the diesel scandal of the mid century because other environmental factors have been ignored to justify a tick in the box for this ludicrous net zero bollox. |
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Post by cvillestokie on Oct 21, 2023 12:09:05 GMT
We bought a hybrid. It’s 20 something miles to work each way and the only way to get there is a mountain highway. It’s definitely cut costs for fuel as our electricity is lower. However, it really depends on your situation.
We’d considered a full electric but my biggest concern is the lack of expertise in the local area of maintaining them. When our other car hits 200k on the clock, we’ll likely give it a shot.
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Post by ParaPsych on Oct 21, 2023 17:51:12 GMT
There are loads of them that can easily handle a 300 mile round trip. Some are pushing 400 now. That’s the advertised range but I bet most will do 75% or less of this. When you factor in night driving, poor weather when lights, wipers, blower and heater are needed and AC in the summer. Few weeks ago I drove from Plymouth to Bristol in very poor weather, heavy rain and mist, we were gobsmacked at the number of cars with no lights on. We then looked a bit closer and it was clear that the vast majority were EVs obviously trying to conserve battery range at the expense of road safety. In a few years after we’ve been dragged kicking and screaming into this futile method of transportation, it may well become the diesel scandal of the mid century because other environmental factors have been ignored to justify a tick in the box for this ludicrous net zero bollox. I've got a mate who drives all over the country is his Tesla and doesn't have a single problem. Ultimately I don't see range being an issue at all in 10 years time, for those with driveways who can charge each night at least. But I don't really understand how people who have to park in the streets are going to get on? |
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Post by mtrstudent on Oct 21, 2023 18:10:05 GMT
There are loads of them that can easily handle a 300 mile round trip. Some are pushing 400 now. That’s the advertised range but I bet most will do 75% or less of this. When you factor in night driving, poor weather when lights, wipers, blower and heater are needed and AC in the summer. Few weeks ago I drove from Plymouth to Bristol in very poor weather, heavy rain and mist, we were gobsmacked at the number of cars with no lights on. We then looked a bit closer and it was clear that the vast majority were EVs obviously trying to conserve battery range at the expense of road safety. In a few years after we’ve been dragged kicking and screaming into this futile method of transportation, it may well become the diesel scandal of the mid century because other environmental factors have been ignored to justify a tick in the box for this ludicrous net zero bollox. That's insanity. My car's headlights are about 55 W each, so turning your lights off for 3 hours saves like 1 mile of range. I think you're wrong about EVs and in the 2030s people will be wondering why it took so long, guess we'll see! |
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Post by xchpotter on Oct 21, 2023 19:52:15 GMT
I think electric vehicles will be the scandal of the 21st century. The damage and destruction mining for battery parts is causing is conveniently forgotten about. Electric vehicles use a tremendous amount of energy to manufacture and yet many are hoodwinked into believing they are saving the world. The electric to charge a vehicle doesn’t necessarily come from renewable source either which again is overlooked I remain to be convinced by electric cars and will continue servicing and maintaining by ten year old petrol car to ensure it runs at optimum efficiency rather than create more of a environmental footprint by buying an electric one knowing what damage has been caused in it’s manufacture.
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Post by mtrstudent on Oct 21, 2023 20:19:12 GMT
I think electric vehicles will be the scandal of the 21st century. The damage and destruction mining for battery parts is causing is conveniently forgotten about. Electric vehicles use a tremendous amount of energy to manufacture and yet many are hoodwinked into believing they are saving the world. The electric to charge a vehicle doesn’t necessarily come from renewable source either which again is overlooked I remain to be convinced by electric cars and will continue servicing and maintaining by ten year old petrol car to ensure it runs at optimum efficiency rather than create more of a environmental footprint by buying an electric one knowing what damage has been caused in it’s manufacture. All depends on how much pollution you get from electrics versus petrol, doesn't it? 🤔 |
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Post by lawrieleslie on Oct 22, 2023 7:18:47 GMT
I think electric vehicles will be the scandal of the 21st century. The damage and destruction mining for battery parts is causing is conveniently forgotten about. Electric vehicles use a tremendous amount of energy to manufacture and yet many are hoodwinked into believing they are saving the world. The electric to charge a vehicle doesn’t necessarily come from renewable source either which again is overlooked I remain to be convinced by electric cars and will continue servicing and maintaining by ten year old petrol car to ensure it runs at optimum efficiency rather than create more of a environmental footprint by buying an electric one knowing what damage has been caused in it’s manufacture. All depends on how much pollution you get from electrics versus petrol, doesn't it? 🤔 The benefit to the environment of just driving an EV is obvious. I think the post was referring to the whole environmental footprint of both the production and running these vehicles. I agree with him but then I hate being told what I must do & have especially when it comes to the futility of UK legislation on "net zero" |
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Post by chuffedstokie on Oct 22, 2023 7:29:25 GMT
Things are just too damn expensive and I'll never be able to afford one so the issues surrounding ownership will never arise.
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Post by lawrieleslie on Oct 22, 2023 11:04:10 GMT
Things are just too damn expensive and I'll never be able to afford one so the issues surrounding ownership will never arise. There will be a cast of millions in this situation CS when you can only buy EVs. |
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Post by longdistancekiddie on Oct 22, 2023 11:24:49 GMT
Diesel, simple as that
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Post by chuffedstokie on Oct 22, 2023 13:35:45 GMT
Things are just too damn expensive and I'll never be able to afford one so the issues surrounding ownership will never arise. There will be a cast of millions in this situation CS when you can only buy EVs. Even the second hand market in EV's although healthy is demanding almost silly money. I suppose as the technology continues to evolve no one will want older or first generation vehicles, I may be completely wrong of course as I haven't looked in depth. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Oct 22, 2023 15:22:09 GMT
All depends on how much pollution you get from electrics versus petrol, doesn't it? 🤔 The benefit to the environment of just driving an EV is obvious. I think the post was referring to the whole environmental footprint of both the production and running these vehicles. I agree with him but then I hate being told what I must do & have especially when it comes to the futility of UK legislation on "net zero" Dunno, I've seen it mentioned that electrics don't use purely renewables (yet, obviously!) so I assume people think that ruins the benefits? I've read a few dozen studies on pollution from EV manufacture + use versus petrol and except for one study looking at a part of China that was ~100% coal powered, the EVs always come out with way less pollution overall. But that's nerd stuff that the media don't usually cover. |
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Post by mtrstudent on Oct 22, 2023 15:32:04 GMT
Things are just too damn expensive and I'll never be able to afford one so the issues surrounding ownership will never arise. I think it's like DVDs, HDTVs, smart phones etc. Prices will get better because it's new tech, it'll just be slow because car models are fully refreshed every 4+ years instead of every year like phones. E.g. the 2010 Nissan Leaf had 80 mile range and cost about 2.1x a Toyota Corolla/Auris. This year the 200 mile Leaf is about 1.6x a Corolla/Auris. Definitely wouldn't buy a Leaf though. |
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Post by Northy on Oct 23, 2023 11:17:12 GMT
I personally wouldn’t go near full electric myself, far too expensive and electric prices don’t do them justice anymore. As you say the charging point infrastructure just isn’t good enough really. I had the opportunity last year to have one through work but I needed to find myself a home charger - over £1000 quote for one of them fast charging ones!! I’ve got a self charging hybrid myself, Toyota one. Has petrol engine and a battery that’s charged via the engine and braking so it’s capable of full EV mode. I love mine and I’ve had them for years, Toyota have years on almost every manufacturer on hybrids. Only thing with them is they have to be driven properly, drive it like you stole it and it won’t return good economy. But with todays fuel prices, who can go around booting their car anyway! You only get about 30 miles in EV mode though don't you, and cant go over 30 MPH ? |
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Post by Northy on Oct 23, 2023 11:48:52 GMT
I think electric vehicles will be the scandal of the 21st century. The damage and destruction mining for battery parts is causing is conveniently forgotten about. Electric vehicles use a tremendous amount of energy to manufacture and yet many are hoodwinked into believing they are saving the world. The electric to charge a vehicle doesn’t necessarily come from renewable source either which again is overlooked I remain to be convinced by electric cars and will continue servicing and maintaining by ten year old petrol car to ensure it runs at optimum efficiency rather than create more of a environmental footprint by buying an electric one knowing what damage has been caused in it’s manufacture. Research where the lithium comes from, 50% of the worlds lithium comes from Brine water in South America, no mining involved. You mention the damage and destruction mining for the battery parts, but fail to mention anything about the disasters oil production and transportation has caused over the last 100 years, do you work for the oil industry at all, your view is so blinkered ? The many oil tankers leaks into our seas and oceans and washing onto the land, the recent Mexico sea disaster, piper alpha, the illegal burn offs causing cancer in Iraq and other places around the world Some Electric vehicles do have a higher carbon footprint at the moment, but then it goes under the carbon footprint of diesel/petrol cars during it's lifetime. What about the polluting exhaust fumes from your car and issues that causes, costs to the NHS to treat people and the early deaths of people living in cities ? |
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