|
Post by andystokey on Oct 23, 2023 12:10:17 GMT
I personally wouldn’t go near full electric myself, far too expensive and electric prices don’t do them justice anymore. As you say the charging point infrastructure just isn’t good enough really. I had the opportunity last year to have one through work but I needed to find myself a home charger - over £1000 quote for one of them fast charging ones!! I’ve got a self charging hybrid myself, Toyota one. Has petrol engine and a battery that’s charged via the engine and braking so it’s capable of full EV mode. I love mine and I’ve had them for years, Toyota have years on almost every manufacturer on hybrids. Only thing with them is they have to be driven properly, drive it like you stole it and it won’t return good economy. But with todays fuel prices, who can go around booting their car anyway! You only get about 30 miles in EV mode though don't you, and cant go over 30 MPH ? I get 300 miles usable range out of my EV6. I drive down South 240m each way regularly. Each trip saves 30kg of CO2. The 9p Octopus Go tariff gives me 120 miles for about £4.00. On the return I take a rapid charge to add 250 miles in about 20mins, which is about the time it takes me to have a piss and queue for a coffee. The build cost CO2 was neutral after my first 15k miles. In year two my business/private miles is saving about 8 tonnes of CO2 per annum. The vehicle cost is prohibitive for most, with hardly any 2nd hand market, I accept but the CO2 benefit is undoubted.
|
|
|
Post by superjw on Oct 23, 2023 12:43:40 GMT
I think electric vehicles will be the scandal of the 21st century. The damage and destruction mining for battery parts is causing is conveniently forgotten about. Electric vehicles use a tremendous amount of energy to manufacture and yet many are hoodwinked into believing they are saving the world. The electric to charge a vehicle doesn’t necessarily come from renewable source either which again is overlooked I remain to be convinced by electric cars and will continue servicing and maintaining by ten year old petrol car to ensure it runs at optimum efficiency rather than create more of a environmental footprint by buying an electric one knowing what damage has been caused in it’s manufacture. I’ve read a study recently that compared the carbon lifecycle of petrol cars and current EVs. EVs take far more energy and produce far more carbon than the petrol car in production. So at 0 miles an Ev has done more environmental damage. Ultimately the EV then breaks even and in the end becomes slightly better for the environment over its lifespan - but critically this is only achieved when a certain number of miles has been driven (about 80k with current mix of electricity being fossil fuel, reduces if renewable electric used) and assumes the battery doesn’t get replaced. There’s an argument that for personal carbon emissions, an Ev isn’t actually better for the environment if one replaces their car every 3 years because that user hasn’t offset the high production carbon cost and would be better with a petrol (unless the user is very high mileage driver) buying the car to keep it then makes sense
|
|
|
Post by Northy on Oct 23, 2023 12:47:32 GMT
You only get about 30 miles in EV mode though don't you, and cant go over 30 MPH ? I get 300 miles usable range out of my EV6. I drive down South 240m each way regularly. Each trip saves 30kg of CO2. The 9p Octopus Go tariff gives me 120 miles for about £4.00. On the return I take a rapid charge to add 250 miles in about 20mins, which is about the time it takes me to have a piss and queue for a coffee. The build cost CO2 was neutral after my first 15k miles. In year two my business/private miles is saving about 8 tonnes of CO2 per annum. The vehicle cost is prohibitive for most, with hardly any 2nd hand market, I accept but the CO2 benefit is undoubted. Thanks, did you quote the wrong post ?
|
|
|
Post by superjw on Oct 23, 2023 12:49:21 GMT
I personally wouldn’t go near full electric myself, far too expensive and electric prices don’t do them justice anymore. As you say the charging point infrastructure just isn’t good enough really. I had the opportunity last year to have one through work but I needed to find myself a home charger - over £1000 quote for one of them fast charging ones!! I’ve got a self charging hybrid myself, Toyota one. Has petrol engine and a battery that’s charged via the engine and braking so it’s capable of full EV mode. I love mine and I’ve had them for years, Toyota have years on almost every manufacturer on hybrids. Only thing with them is they have to be driven properly, drive it like you stole it and it won’t return good economy. But with todays fuel prices, who can go around booting their car anyway! You only get about 30 miles in EV mode though don't you, and cant go over 30 MPH ? My new Toyota has an updated Ev mode, range is about the same but it will kick in up to 60mph now. I’ve been on the motorway in Ev mode, obviously the engine kicks in to help accelerate to that speed first. I’ve actually done up to 40mph from a standing start in all EV mode, careful use of the right pedal needed though. My old Auris couldn’t do any of that that and 30mph was the limit.
|
|
|
Post by Northy on Oct 23, 2023 12:53:35 GMT
You only get about 30 miles in EV mode though don't you, and cant go over 30 MPH ? My new Toyota has an updated Ev mode, range is about the same but it will kick in up to 60mph now. I’ve been on the motorway in Ev mode, obviously the engine kicks in to help accelerate to that speed first. I’ve actually done up to 40mph from a standing start in all EV mode, careful use of the right pedal needed though. My old Auris couldn’t do any of that that and 30mph was the limit. Looks like the technology is improving on all elements of the EV's all of the time then.
|
|
|
Post by OldStokie on Oct 23, 2023 13:38:55 GMT
I won't be going EV or Hybrid any time soon and I probably won't be around in 2030. Having said that and thinking about drivers who could/would be changing over, I wouldn't be going to EV if I lived in one of the millions of terraced houses throughout the country. The infrastructure is appallingly behind the curve for most so if I had to change right now, then I'd go for a hybrid. If I had a charging point at home then I think I'd definitely go for the full EV option. Does that make sense?
OS.
|
|
|
Post by andystokey on Oct 23, 2023 18:07:17 GMT
I won't be going EV or Hybrid any time soon and I probably won't be around in 2030. Having said that and thinking about drivers who could/would be changing over, I wouldn't be going to EV if I lived in one of the millions of terraced houses throughout the country. The infrastructure is appallingly behind the curve for most so if I had to change right now, then I'd go for a hybrid. If I had a charging point at home then I think I'd definitely go for the full EV option. Does that make sense? OS. I think some cities are better than others. I regularly travel to Brighton which is mostly multiple occupancy flats and streets. There are about 250 lamp post chargers in Brighton. 12000 across the UK. Needless to say Stoke is still installing lampposts never mind chargers 😀
|
|
|
Post by questionable on Oct 23, 2023 20:32:12 GMT
I had the car in for a 'service while you wait' in the VW garage today. As usual it was a 'service while you wait a long time'! Which was okay because it gave me time to look at the new cars without someone trying to sell me one. I can't decide if there is one last petrol engine car left in me before I make the inevitable move to electric. I kind of feel like there are still not enough public charging points to go electric quite apart from the high cost of electric vehicles. But what is the story with a 'hybrid'. I mean do you literally have to put both fuel AND electricity in it? I mean that sounds like a complete ball ache. My current thinking is to enjoy one last petrol engine car while you still can and then make the move to full blown electric a few years after that by which time hopefully the charging situation is sorted and the electric car prices have come down. Make sense, or not? We’ve decided on petrol each but can never see us going electric, wife has a mild hybrid engine on her car, think a small battery kicks in every now and then and best MPG I’ve recorded is 64.5 MPG. I got talking to a salesman at Audi before we purchased the wife’s car and in a round about way told us not to bother with electric for 4 years. There’s lots of horror stories about charging stations never working and large queues at them
|
|
|
Post by Northy on Oct 24, 2023 10:32:15 GMT
I won't be going EV or Hybrid any time soon and I probably won't be around in 2030. Having said that and thinking about drivers who could/would be changing over, I wouldn't be going to EV if I lived in one of the millions of terraced houses throughout the country. The infrastructure is appallingly behind the curve for most so if I had to change right now, then I'd go for a hybrid. If I had a charging point at home then I think I'd definitely go for the full EV option. Does that make sense? OS. Have you studied the infrastructure, charging capabilities, had a view on zapmap, tried and planned a test drive in an EV on a long journey ? Some people fear change, some people embrace it, some people don't want to leave their comfort zone, some people look to be pioneers and adapt, that's always been the case, those that fear change tend to find ways to resist it or in today's social media world, post absolute false crap on Facebook.
|
|
|
Post by Northy on Oct 24, 2023 10:34:13 GMT
I had the car in for a 'service while you wait' in the VW garage today. As usual it was a 'service while you wait a long time'! Which was okay because it gave me time to look at the new cars without someone trying to sell me one. I can't decide if there is one last petrol engine car left in me before I make the inevitable move to electric. I kind of feel like there are still not enough public charging points to go electric quite apart from the high cost of electric vehicles. But what is the story with a 'hybrid'. I mean do you literally have to put both fuel AND electricity in it? I mean that sounds like a complete ball ache. My current thinking is to enjoy one last petrol engine car while you still can and then make the move to full blown electric a few years after that by which time hopefully the charging situation is sorted and the electric car prices have come down. Make sense, or not? We’ve decided on petrol each but can never see us going electric, wife has a mild hybrid engine on her car, think a small battery kicks in every now and then and best MPG I’ve recorded is 64.5 MPG. I got talking to a salesman at Audi before we purchased the wife’s car and in a round about way told us not to bother with electric for 4 years. There’s lots of horror stories about charging stations never working and large queues at them And there's many thousands of untold stories about people charging without a problem, people mostly pick up on the negatives.
|
|
|
Post by mickeythemaestro on Oct 24, 2023 10:46:54 GMT
I had the car in for a 'service while you wait' in the VW garage today. As usual it was a 'service while you wait a long time'! Which was okay because it gave me time to look at the new cars without someone trying to sell me one. I can't decide if there is one last petrol engine car left in me before I make the inevitable move to electric. I kind of feel like there are still not enough public charging points to go electric quite apart from the high cost of electric vehicles. But what is the story with a 'hybrid'. I mean do you literally have to put both fuel AND electricity in it? I mean that sounds like a complete ball ache. My current thinking is to enjoy one last petrol engine car while you still can and then make the move to full blown electric a few years after that by which time hopefully the charging situation is sorted and the electric car prices have come down. Make sense, or not? Makes total sense to me 👍 Electric or whatever the solution ends up being will be much more advanced in 5 to 10 years.
|
|
|
Post by spiderpuss on Oct 24, 2023 15:12:31 GMT
The good news are chargers starting to appear, here near Penkhull we have some on the Market, Lidl and Tesco on Trent Vegas. All pretty walkable distance once you've done your charge. Not sure the cost, but you'd imagine they're cheaper than the motor-way services. Still none in the village centre and I'm not sure when that might be done. The tight web of terrace streets is not suitable to installing large machines so it would have to be the lamp-post sort unless you've got a drive. That's the minorly good news.
Now for the bad news.
- Horrible depreciation, I know it's a wild-west example but the Porsche Cayenne E was one of the worst depreciating vehicles, losing something like 25% in it's first year. This rolls out across the market with stories of dealers not accepting E vehicles in part exchange. So you'll be cap in hand to webuyanycar and hoping for the best. - Horrific Insurance increases, media reports of people moving from 1000 p/a to an eye watering 5K p/a seem pretty well founded (https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/sep/30/the-quotes-were-5000-or-more-electric-vehicle-owners-face-soaring-insurance-costs). This means for the average Joe that E cars are NOT an option at all. - Comparison against "normal" cars. A steady petrol Ford can be picked up for a few grand and if you're a good driver then the insurance will be in the 100s.
Right now unless you're not too worried about your cash-flow and also you're Greta's lesser known Brother, E's are for you. For the rest of us they are not.
|
|
|
Post by mtrstudent on Oct 24, 2023 15:40:32 GMT
I think electric vehicles will be the scandal of the 21st century. The damage and destruction mining for battery parts is causing is conveniently forgotten about. Electric vehicles use a tremendous amount of energy to manufacture and yet many are hoodwinked into believing they are saving the world. The electric to charge a vehicle doesn’t necessarily come from renewable source either which again is overlooked I remain to be convinced by electric cars and will continue servicing and maintaining by ten year old petrol car to ensure it runs at optimum efficiency rather than create more of a environmental footprint by buying an electric one knowing what damage has been caused in it’s manufacture. I’ve read a study recently that compared the carbon lifecycle of petrol cars and current EVs. EVs take far more energy and produce far more carbon than the petrol car in production. So at 0 miles an Ev has done more environmental damage. Ultimately the EV then breaks even and in the end becomes slightly better for the environment over its lifespan - but critically this is only achieved when a certain number of miles has been driven (about 80k with current mix of electricity being fossil fuel, reduces if renewable electric used) and assumes the battery doesn’t get replaced. There’s an argument that for personal carbon emissions, an Ev isn’t actually better for the environment if one replaces their car every 3 years because that user hasn’t offset the high production carbon cost and would be better with a petrol (unless the user is very high mileage driver) buying the car to keep it then makes sense The setup with more CO2 at first and less over time sounds right, but numbers depended on year and place in the studies I read. E.g. this one puts a petrol Passat at a lifetime 50 tonnes of CO2, a Tesla Model 3 is 17.5 nowadays but 5 if you charged with 100% renewables. The grid's getting greener so I guess the real number's inbetween. They say about 11k miles to "cancel out" the Tesla's extra manufacturing pollution.
I don't think your 3-year plan is best for reducing pollution unless you scrap the car? If I bought a new car and saw the choice is eventually 50 tonnes CO2 or 10-20, I'd pick the EV if I could actually plug the damn thing in somewhere.
|
|
|
Post by mtrstudent on Oct 24, 2023 15:41:46 GMT
The good news are chargers starting to appear, here near Penkhull we have some on the Market, Lidl and Tesco on Trent Vegas. All pretty walkable distance once you've done your charge. Not sure the cost, but you'd imagine they're cheaper than the motor-way services. Still none in the village centre and I'm not sure when that might be done. The tight web of terrace streets is not suitable to installing large machines so it would have to be the lamp-post sort unless you've got a drive. That's the minorly good news. Now for the bad news. - Horrible depreciation, I know it's a wild-west example but the Porsche Cayenne E was one of the worst depreciating vehicles, losing something like 25% in it's first year. This rolls out across the market with stories of dealers not accepting E vehicles in part exchange. So you'll be cap in hand to webuyanycar and hoping for the best. - Horrific Insurance increases, media reports of people moving from 1000 p/a to an eye watering 5K p/a seem pretty well founded (https://www.theguardian.com/money/2023/sep/30/the-quotes-were-5000-or-more-electric-vehicle-owners-face-soaring-insurance-costs). This means for the average Joe that E cars are NOT an option at all. - Comparison against "normal" cars. A steady petrol Ford can be picked up for a few grand and if you're a good driver then the insurance will be in the 100s. Right now unless you're not too worried about your cash-flow and also you're Greta's lesser known Brother, E's are for you. For the rest of us they are not. I'm counting on the horrible depreciation. Like the look of the Kia Niro and if my Rio breaks in a few years I'd be chuffed with a massive second-hand discount! Although our next car will probably be plug in hybrid instead.
|
|
|
Post by OldStokie on Oct 24, 2023 19:34:18 GMT
I won't be going EV or Hybrid any time soon and I probably won't be around in 2030. Having said that and thinking about drivers who could/would be changing over, I wouldn't be going to EV if I lived in one of the millions of terraced houses throughout the country. The infrastructure is appallingly behind the curve for most so if I had to change right now, then I'd go for a hybrid. If I had a charging point at home then I think I'd definitely go for the full EV option. Does that make sense? OS. Have you studied the infrastructure, charging capabilities, had a view on zapmap, tried and planned a test drive in an EV on a long journey ? Some people fear change, some people embrace it, some people don't want to leave their comfort zone, some people look to be pioneers and adapt, that's always been the case, those that fear change tend to find ways to resist it or in today's social media world, post absolute false crap on Facebook. I've actually SEEN the infrastructure. I don't know of a single street of terraced houses in S-o-T that has any charging points. Add to that, that our city still has tens of thousands of Victorian terraced houses and I can only begin to imagine the massive cost it's going to be to install chargers here. Just as an aside. I saw in the Sentnull a bloke who had an EV. He'd gone through some water and it knackered his battery. The warranty wouldn't pay for it and it was going to cost him £17,000 to replace it. Surely they should put them in a waterproof compartment given the awful weather have in this country? OS.
|
|
|
Post by spiderpuss on Oct 24, 2023 21:13:46 GMT
Have you studied the infrastructure, charging capabilities, had a view on zapmap, tried and planned a test drive in an EV on a long journey ? Some people fear change, some people embrace it, some people don't want to leave their comfort zone, some people look to be pioneers and adapt, that's always been the case, those that fear change tend to find ways to resist it or in today's social media world, post absolute false crap on Facebook. I've actually SEEN the infrastructure. I don't know of a single street of terraced houses in S-o-T that has any charging points. Add to that, that our city still has tens of thousands of Victorian terraced houses and I can only begin to imagine the massive cost it's going to be to install chargers here. Just as an aside. I saw in the Sentnull a bloke who had an EV. He'd gone through some water and it knackered his battery. The warranty wouldn't pay for it and it was going to cost him £17,000 to replace it. Surely they should put them in a waterproof compartment given the awful weather have in this country? OS. For that value you can buy a nearly new Honda Civic 1.6, 20 plate. As you say, it's not fit for purpose in this country, we're hardly LA.
|
|
|
Post by musik on Oct 25, 2023 8:21:17 GMT
Pedal car
Environment friendly No fuel costs Gives you exercise
|
|
|
Post by Northy on Oct 25, 2023 8:54:08 GMT
Have you studied the infrastructure, charging capabilities, had a view on zapmap, tried and planned a test drive in an EV on a long journey ? Some people fear change, some people embrace it, some people don't want to leave their comfort zone, some people look to be pioneers and adapt, that's always been the case, those that fear change tend to find ways to resist it or in today's social media world, post absolute false crap on Facebook. I've actually SEEN the infrastructure. I don't know of a single street of terraced houses in S-o-T that has any charging points. Add to that, that our city still has tens of thousands of Victorian terraced houses and I can only begin to imagine the massive cost it's going to be to install chargers here. Just as an aside. I saw in the Sentnull a bloke who had an EV. He'd gone through some water and it knackered his battery. The warranty wouldn't pay for it and it was going to cost him £17,000 to replace it. Surely they should put them in a waterproof compartment given the awful weather have in this country? OS. That's maybe because Stoke on Trent council is backward and nearly always behind the rest of the country, I've seen plenty of simple chargers on lampposts in terraced areas, and they are relatively cheap. www.stoke.gov.uk/info/20030/taxis/551/electric_vehicle_chargersA live interactive map of chargers around the UK, and the ones I use aren't on there as not registered for the general public to use, like many others probably, it makes it easier to plan a journey. www.zap-map.com/live/You can charge your car using a standard 3 pin plug connector as well Just as an aside, I've seen many petrol and diesel cars stuck in water as well, why don't they make oil that can be used when mixed with water ... and I've seen many petrol and diesel cars and lorries on fire and roads needing to be resurfaced again before they are reopened.
|
|
|
Post by OldStokie on Oct 25, 2023 12:18:23 GMT
Northy, you're faffing about here trying to detract from reality.
Your link... Stoke-on-Trent City Council, Newcastle-under-Lyme Borough Council and Stafford Borough Council have jointly been awarded £787,500 through the government’s Ultra Low Taxi Infrastructure Scheme to install 30 electric vehicle (EV) rapid chargers in council-owned car parks for use by taxis, private hire vehicles and the general public.
That figure of £787,500 is for THIRTY charging points ranging from Stoke, N-u-L, and Stafford. That's £26,000 each! And the money has gone to a private company to do that. If you've got a garage at home it costs aprox £1000 to fit one. This is reality for many. And as for your suggestion that any 3 pin electric plug can charge a car, for terraced houses that means you'll have a row of cables running across every pavement at night or whenever. It wouldn't be allowed.
The point I'm making is that it will cost not millions, but tens of billions to create the infrastructure when everyone eventually has to go all EV and that will have to come from a government infrastructure plan and not local councils who struggling to provide social care never mind car charging because they've had massive cutbacks from 13 years of Tory rule.
If you're making a case for full EV then at least use some common sense. Of course we all need to cut carbon emissions but the reality is that it will cost trillions around the world to achieve that. The price will be cheap to save the planet but the harsh reality is that when push comes to shove, as Sunak has discovered and used to gain votes, leaving it to individuals will never work.
OS.
|
|
|
Post by Northy on Oct 25, 2023 15:24:03 GMT
Northy, you're faffing about here trying to detract from reality. Your link... Stoke-on-Trent City Council, Newcastle-under-Lyme Borough Council and Stafford Borough Council have jointly been awarded £787,500 through the government’s Ultra Low Taxi Infrastructure Scheme to install 30 electric vehicle (EV) rapid chargers in council-owned car parks for use by taxis, private hire vehicles and the general public. That figure of £787,500 is for THIRTY charging points ranging from Stoke, N-u-L, and Stafford. That's £26,000 each! And the money has gone to a private company to do that. If you've got a garage at home it costs aprox £1000 to fit one. This is reality for many. And as for your suggestion that any 3 pin electric plug can charge a car, for terraced houses that means you'll have a row of cables running across every pavement at night or whenever. It wouldn't be allowed. The point I'm making is that it will cost not millions, but tens of billions to create the infrastructure when everyone eventually has to go all EV and that will have to come from a government infrastructure plan and not local councils who struggling to provide social care never mind car charging because they've had massive cutbacks from 13 years of Tory rule. If you're making a case for full EV then at least use some common sense. Of course we all need to cut carbon emissions but the reality is that it will cost trillions around the world to achieve that. The price will be cheap to save the planet but the harsh reality is that when push comes to shove, as Sunak has discovered and used to gain votes, leaving it to individuals will never work. OS. I am using common sense, and looking at reality, yes, we need lots more chargers but the councils to manage and then private companies to install, are getting many more grants from the infrastructure bank on a roll out of all types of chargers from mid journey superchargers to on street chargers (lampposts) with Gridserve (https://www.gridserve.com/energy/ sustainable energy) at the forefront, in the first roll out there are going to be 2000 new super fast charging stations; as of 1st January 2023 there were 37,000 car charging points in the UK a 30% rise in a year (there are 8500 petrol stations), and it will keep growing at a great rate. The national grid are already spending billions a year in transforming the countries electrical infrastructure for this, and have been for years, we aren't starting from scratch here, unfortunately governments over the last 30 years haven't invested much time or money it's the private companies driving this. We have been and maybe still are in a chicken and egg situation, some companies wont invest in chargers as there aren't enough electric cars yet to get a good profit, and for people there aren't enough charging stations yet for people to put themselves out a bit, people fear change and have become too comfortable to put themselves out a bit, but technology is improving, it'll only get better, there are EV's now with 400 mile ranges, not many people in Stoke need to top that up daily or even weekly would they? Can people look their grandkids in the eye and honestly say they did what they could, or say, I couldn't be too bothered as it meant putting myself out a bit? Last week I saw a queue for a drive through MacDonald's causing chaos around an out of town complex car park, people are prepared to sit in a queue for 30 minutes to each shite food (which isn't good for the environment), but not prepared to help reduce pollution and give a better world for the people coming after us, unfortunately that's become reality.
|
|
|
Post by OldStokie on Oct 25, 2023 18:09:19 GMT
Northy, you're faffing about here trying to detract from reality. Your link... Stoke-on-Trent City Council, Newcastle-under-Lyme Borough Council and Stafford Borough Council have jointly been awarded £787,500 through the government’s Ultra Low Taxi Infrastructure Scheme to install 30 electric vehicle (EV) rapid chargers in council-owned car parks for use by taxis, private hire vehicles and the general public. That figure of £787,500 is for THIRTY charging points ranging from Stoke, N-u-L, and Stafford. That's £26,000 each! And the money has gone to a private company to do that. If you've got a garage at home it costs aprox £1000 to fit one. This is reality for many. And as for your suggestion that any 3 pin electric plug can charge a car, for terraced houses that means you'll have a row of cables running across every pavement at night or whenever. It wouldn't be allowed. The point I'm making is that it will cost not millions, but tens of billions to create the infrastructure when everyone eventually has to go all EV and that will have to come from a government infrastructure plan and not local councils who struggling to provide social care never mind car charging because they've had massive cutbacks from 13 years of Tory rule. If you're making a case for full EV then at least use some common sense. Of course we all need to cut carbon emissions but the reality is that it will cost trillions around the world to achieve that. The price will be cheap to save the planet but the harsh reality is that when push comes to shove, as Sunak has discovered and used to gain votes, leaving it to individuals will never work. OS. I am using common sense, and looking at reality, yes, we need lots more chargers but the councils to manage and then private companies to install, are getting many more grants from the infrastructure bank on a roll out of all types of chargers from mid journey superchargers to on street chargers (lampposts) with Gridserve (https://www.gridserve.com/energy/ sustainable energy) at the forefront, in the first roll out there are going to be 2000 new super fast charging stations; as of 1st January 2023 there were 37,000 car charging points in the UK a 30% rise in a year (there are 8500 petrol stations), and it will keep growing at a great rate. The national grid are already spending billions a year in transforming the countries electrical infrastructure for this, and have been for years, we aren't starting from scratch here, unfortunately governments over the last 30 years haven't invested much time or money it's the private companies driving this. We have been and maybe still are in a chicken and egg situation, some companies wont invest in chargers as there aren't enough electric cars yet to get a good profit, and for people there aren't enough charging stations yet for people to put themselves out a bit, people fear change and have become too comfortable to put themselves out a bit, but technology is improving, it'll only get better, there are EV's now with 400 mile ranges, not many people in Stoke need to top that up daily or even weekly would they? Can people look their grandkids in the eye and honestly say they did what they could, or say, I couldn't be too bothered as it meant putting myself out a bit? Last week I saw a queue for a drive through MacDonald's causing chaos around an out of town complex car park, people are prepared to sit in a queue for 30 minutes to each shite food (which isn't good for the environment), but not prepared to help reduce pollution and give a better world for the people coming after us, unfortunately that's become reality. We seem to be agreeing about some things but not others. You have said a couple of times that they're putting a charging point on every lamp post. How would that work for a street full of about 60 terraced houses with maybe 15 lamp posts? Only 15 cars will be parked by the lamp posts so what happens to the others? For it to work properly there needs to be a charging point for every home that doesn't have a drive or garage. The one thing you have said is that some cars now run for 400 miles with one charge. Over the next decade I expect that to improve massively so there's hope there that communal charging points can do the job. For me that's the real deal when it comes to full EV. And you're right. It will have to be the private sector that creates the bulk of the infrastructure much like garages do now for petrol cars. Then, competition will have to play a part to keep the price down or we'll be ripped off as normal with private sector ideology. So, I'll stick to my original point which was, at the moment, unless I had a garage, then I'd buy a hybrid. Anyway, who knows what the future holds in 10/15 years time? Technology is moving so fast that EV's may be old hat and outdated. I recently read a brilliant article saying that with the pace of technology moving so fast and with the invention of AI, even large enterprises are only able to plan for the short or medium term. So, with respect fella, I'll leave my debate at that. Take care. OS.
|
|
|
Post by Northy on Oct 26, 2023 8:02:33 GMT
I am using common sense, and looking at reality, yes, we need lots more chargers but the councils to manage and then private companies to install, are getting many more grants from the infrastructure bank on a roll out of all types of chargers from mid journey superchargers to on street chargers (lampposts) with Gridserve (https://www.gridserve.com/energy/ sustainable energy) at the forefront, in the first roll out there are going to be 2000 new super fast charging stations; as of 1st January 2023 there were 37,000 car charging points in the UK a 30% rise in a year (there are 8500 petrol stations), and it will keep growing at a great rate. The national grid are already spending billions a year in transforming the countries electrical infrastructure for this, and have been for years, we aren't starting from scratch here, unfortunately governments over the last 30 years haven't invested much time or money it's the private companies driving this. We have been and maybe still are in a chicken and egg situation, some companies wont invest in chargers as there aren't enough electric cars yet to get a good profit, and for people there aren't enough charging stations yet for people to put themselves out a bit, people fear change and have become too comfortable to put themselves out a bit, but technology is improving, it'll only get better, there are EV's now with 400 mile ranges, not many people in Stoke need to top that up daily or even weekly would they? Can people look their grandkids in the eye and honestly say they did what they could, or say, I couldn't be too bothered as it meant putting myself out a bit? Last week I saw a queue for a drive through MacDonald's causing chaos around an out of town complex car park, people are prepared to sit in a queue for 30 minutes to each shite food (which isn't good for the environment), but not prepared to help reduce pollution and give a better world for the people coming after us, unfortunately that's become reality. We seem to be agreeing about some things but not others. You have said a couple of times that they're putting a charging point on every lamp post. How would that work for a street full of about 60 terraced houses with maybe 15 lamp posts? Only 15 cars will be parked by the lamp posts so what happens to the others? For it to work properly there needs to be a charging point for every home that doesn't have a drive or garage. The one thing you have said is that some cars now run for 400 miles with one charge. Over the next decade I expect that to improve massively so there's hope there that communal charging points can do the job. For me that's the real deal when it comes to full EV. And you're right. It will have to be the private sector that creates the bulk of the infrastructure much like garages do now for petrol cars. Then, competition will have to play a part to keep the price down or we'll be ripped off as normal with private sector ideology. So, I'll stick to my original point which was, at the moment, unless I had a garage, then I'd buy a hybrid. Anyway, who knows what the future holds in 10/15 years time? Technology is moving so fast that EV's may be old hat and outdated. I recently read a brilliant article saying that with the pace of technology moving so fast and with the invention of AI, even large enterprises are only able to plan for the short or medium term. So, with respect fella, I'll leave my debate at that. Take care. OS. I didn't say they are installing on every lampposts, just lampposts. Yep technology is changing fast, I'd expect hydrogen to come through in the next few years as well, and even yesterday Toyota stated they are having a breakthrough in solid state battery technology that could see a car soon have a 700 mile range and reduce charging time to just 10 minutes, now that is a game changer, I'd like to see the technical details around that report soon.
|
|
|
Post by Northy on Oct 26, 2023 8:34:05 GMT
The headline: -
GB News New driving law changes to have huge impact on electric car owners and chargepoints
The reality: -
New driving law changes have been unveiled in a bid to make charging easier for electric car drivers around the UK.
After being approved by MPs last night, the new rules will ensure that prices across chargepoints are transparent and easy to compare.
It will also ensure that a large proportion of new public chargepoints have contactless payment options.
Some people will just read headlines and take it as a negative thing.
|
|
|
Post by Dutchpeter on Oct 26, 2023 9:04:44 GMT
With reference to terraced streets. Even if you put charging points in, will you be able to get close enough to charge your car? What about those who live in blocks of flats? What if you’re leaving your car for several hours in a field at say, an air show, how do these cars get charged up? What about farmers in fields miles from anything? What about the random building sites that pop up. You could go on with more examples of how impractical it is to recharge a EV’s batteries. JCB are going down the hydrogen route www.jcb.com/en-gb/campaigns/hydrogen/hydrogen-truckin
|
|
|
Post by salopstick on Oct 26, 2023 10:34:05 GMT
Not being mechanically minded why cant the movement of the car be used to charge the batteries and keep them charged as you drive?
|
|
|
Post by cvillestokie on Oct 26, 2023 11:29:50 GMT
Not being mechanically minded why cant the movement of the car be used to charge the batteries and keep them charged as you drive? With hybrids, the braking system does exactly that. Instead of releasing the energy into nowhere, it stores it in the battery.
|
|
|
Post by mtrstudent on Oct 26, 2023 15:43:24 GMT
Not being mechanically minded why cant the movement of the car be used to charge the batteries and keep them charged as you drive? With hybrids, the braking system does exactly that. Instead of releasing the energy into nowhere, it stores it in the battery. Some Lyft/Uber drivers' cars have a screen that shows the power flow, I'd be distracted by all the little coloured arrows going back and forth. Some don't even engage the pads unlesss you're braking hard, just suck the power into the battery. Less brake dust and pads last longer. I think that's why my mate's new Prius gets better city mpg (~68 imperial) than on the motorway (~66).
|
|
|
Post by cvillestokie on Oct 26, 2023 15:49:02 GMT
With hybrids, the braking system does exactly that. Instead of releasing the energy into nowhere, it stores it in the battery. Some Lyft/Uber drivers' cars have a screen that shows the power flow, I'd be distracted by all the little coloured arrows going back and forth. Some don't even engage the pads unlesss you're braking hard, just suck the power into the battery. Less brake dust and pads last longer. I think that's why my mate's new Prius gets better city mpg (~68 imperial) than on the motorway (~66). We have an XC60. It’s supposed to have about 35-40 miles on pure electric. When we drive the highway to work and back (40 miles) it’s gone. When we take the country lanes, there’s about 20 miles left given all the braking around the sharp bends. You can turn the display off, though after a day of driving I forgot it was there.
|
|
|
Post by mtrstudent on Oct 26, 2023 15:53:52 GMT
Some Lyft/Uber drivers' cars have a screen that shows the power flow, I'd be distracted by all the little coloured arrows going back and forth. Some don't even engage the pads unlesss you're braking hard, just suck the power into the battery. Less brake dust and pads last longer. I think that's why my mate's new Prius gets better city mpg (~68 imperial) than on the motorway (~66). We have an XC60. It’s supposed to have about 35-40 miles on pure electric. When we drive the highway to work and back (40 miles) it’s gone. When we take the country lanes, there’s about 20 miles left given all the braking around the sharp bends. You can turn the display off, though after a day of driving I forgot it was there. Most of what I see on the roads is trucks and SUVs here but something like an XC60 still makes me think Chelsea tractor taking the kids to piano practice. Does it feel more "premium" in Electric drive? My friends who went full EV all say the same and won't go back to petrol.
|
|
|
Post by cvillestokie on Oct 26, 2023 16:03:29 GMT
We have an XC60. It’s supposed to have about 35-40 miles on pure electric. When we drive the highway to work and back (40 miles) it’s gone. When we take the country lanes, there’s about 20 miles left given all the braking around the sharp bends. You can turn the display off, though after a day of driving I forgot it was there. Most of what I see on the roads is trucks and SUVs here but something like an XC60 still makes me think Chelsea tractor taking the kids to piano practice. Does it feel more "premium" in Electric drive? My friends who went full EV all say the same and won't go back to petrol. The acceleration in electric is ridiculous. 0-60 in 4.5 seconds is ludicrous, especially for an SUV. Most of the cars near us are big SUVs and pick ups, so we didn’t want to buy anything smaller for safety reasons. We also got a $7000 tax rebate before Biden changed the laws (now only US manufacturers are eligible), so that cushioned the blow. I actually want the F150 EV as the next car in a few years when the Outback packs in. I’ve fully embraced the American culture 😂
|
|