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Post by andycooke96 on Sept 26, 2023 7:15:47 GMT
One of the arguments we’re seeing in favour of sticking with Neil is that it takes time to gel this many signings etc, this might be a valid argument if we had a clear plan and style, Neil hasn’t had that since he joined the club and he’s changing so much game by game that there’s no way the squad will gel. This is on him.
‘The players aren’t good/committed enough’ with the exception of Thompson and Bonham, I don’t think there’s anybody in our squad who wouldn’t at least make the bench for a top ten team. In terms of lack of application I don’t think there’s much evidence for this on the pitch, there is definitely evidence for a lack of direction.
Imo Neil has our best squad since 2016 and he is currently wasting its talent, if we stick with him we risk wasting another season and moving ever closer to spending an entire decade being a bang average and mediocre club. This is fine if people have no ambition, but given the majority of us want to enjoy our Saturdays, I’d argue a managerial change is needed sooner rather than later.
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Sept 26, 2023 7:18:55 GMT
There ia nothing , to support this ideas he ahs a good squad , its unbalanced , lacks physicality and championship how. A goal scorer or cover at left back , Tymon and Brown walk into the first team literally at hew moment its a absolutely shambles for whoever inherits it and Martin and Jared need to go as well
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Post by theonlooker on Sept 26, 2023 7:21:11 GMT
It does take time to gel though, that's the sticking point. The issue with Neil, or what the question should be is....is he doing all he can to help reduce that gelling period or is he adding to the issues with the chopping and changing and playing players out of position in a system that doesn't suit most of the players he's recruited?
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Post by st3mark on Sept 26, 2023 7:28:28 GMT
It does take time to gel though, that's the sticking point. The issue with Neil, or what the question should be is....is he doing all he can to help reduce that gelling period or is he adding to the issues with the chopping and changing and playing players out of position in a system that doesn't suit most of the players he's recruited? That's my problem with him and that's why I've lost patience. Pick a system, pick the 11 and play them until they gel. If after a few games of consistency it still isn't working then tweak it and give that 11 equal time to gel. He can't keep fucking about with it like this. |
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Post by theonlooker on Sept 26, 2023 7:35:33 GMT
It does take time to gel though, that's the sticking point. The issue with Neil, or what the question should be is....is he doing all he can to help reduce that gelling period or is he adding to the issues with the chopping and changing and playing players out of position in a system that doesn't suit most of the players he's recruited? That's my problem with him and that's why I've lost patience. Pick a system, pick the 11 and play them until they gel. If after a few games of consistency it still isn't working then tweak it and give that 11 equal time to gel. He can't keep fucking about with it like this. Yep, it's almost a carbon copy of Nathan Jones, who spent all summer preaching about the diamond and then changed it to wingbacks when it didn't work. Straight away you lose the dressing room and let's be honest, the performance on Sunday was every inch a performance of players losing faith and chucking the towel in as you're likely to find anywhere. He needs to stop thinking he's the second coming of Mourinho, stop switching his team around to match up others, set a system down that his players are suited for and coach to it, and play to it's strengths. Fans are fair and realise you can't and won't win every game and will get behind it. They can't and never will get behind someone trying to be clever and failing. We aren't professionals and aren't coaches but we aren't thick either and it's a very foolish manager that assumes we are. |
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Post by Gods on Sept 26, 2023 7:35:44 GMT
I think we are missing big Souttar who we did have for half of last season.
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Post by andycooke96 on Sept 26, 2023 7:36:34 GMT
There ia nothing , to support this ideas he ahs a good squad , its unbalanced , lacks physicality and championship how. A goal scorer or cover at left back , Tymon and Brown walk into the first team literally at hew moment its a absolutely shambles for whoever inherits it and Martin and Jared need to go as well Think you can make the lack of physicality argument about the centre backs, however a good coach plays in a way that covers up those frailties, look at how some of the big teams will press and tactically foul the opposition to stop them breaking for example. I’d argue we don’t lack a goalscorer either, Vidigal will easily get double figures, Campbell has shown he is capable of that as well, Laurent is easily capable of 5/6 etc. again if we don’t have an out and out scorer then the manager should play in a way which creates chances across the pitch |
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Post by andycooke96 on Sept 26, 2023 7:37:23 GMT
It does take time to gel though, that's the sticking point. The issue with Neil, or what the question should be is....is he doing all he can to help reduce that gelling period or is he adding to the issues with the chopping and changing and playing players out of position in a system that doesn't suit most of the players he's recruited? I agree but there’s not evidence of him implementing a clear style of play, would have a lot more patience if he was |
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Post by wilcopotter on Sept 26, 2023 7:38:17 GMT
It does take time to gel though, that's the sticking point. The issue with Neil, or what the question should be is....is he doing all he can to help reduce that gelling period or is he adding to the issues with the chopping and changing and playing players out of position in a system that doesn't suit most of the players he's recruited? I agree, injuries aside there seems to be no set plan of action or any semblance of a preferred starting XI, hanging his hat on Laurent as Captain is puzzling, let alone him seemingly being one of the first players written on the team sheet. |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 26, 2023 7:46:06 GMT
There ia nothing , to support this ideas he ahs a good squad , its unbalanced , lacks physicality and championship how. A goal scorer or cover at left back , Tymon and Brown walk into the first team literally at hew moment its a absolutely shambles for whoever inherits it and Martin and Jared need to go as well So if the squad is so shit and the transfer window is shut how does changing the manager and backroom staff actually help? If anything it is bound to make things worse This is Neil's squad and he needs time to get it to work. If he can't do it then fine get rid bit not to give him time is just daft. |
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Post by questionable on Sept 26, 2023 7:47:18 GMT
It does take time to gel though, that's the sticking point. The issue with Neil, or what the question should be is....is he doing all he can to help reduce that gelling period or is he adding to the issues with the chopping and changing and playing players out of position in a system that doesn't suit most of the players he's recruited? I agree but there’s not evidence of him implementing a clear style of play, would have a lot more patience if he was His master game plan consists of DJ as a WB, Thompson shoring up the midfield and Laurent pulling the strings in midfield. What possibly could go wrong, honestly just sack him. |
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Post by knype on Sept 26, 2023 7:48:52 GMT
One of the arguments we’re seeing in favour of sticking with Neil is that it takes time to gel this many signings etc, this might be a valid argument if we had a clear plan and style, Neil hasn’t had that since he joined the club and he’s changing so much game by game that there’s no way the squad will gel. This is on him. ‘The players aren’t good/committed enough’ with the exception of Thompson and Bonham, I don’t think there’s anybody in our squad who wouldn’t at least make the bench for a top ten team. In terms of lack of application I don’t think there’s much evidence for this on the pitch, there is definitely evidence for a lack of direction. Imo Neil has our best squad since 2016 and he is currently wasting its talent, if we stick with him we risk wasting another season and moving ever closer to spending an entire decade being a bang average and mediocre club. This is fine if people have no ambition, but given the majority of us want to enjoy our Saturdays, I’d argue a managerial change is needed sooner rather than later. Thompson? Fml |
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 26, 2023 7:52:14 GMT
I agree but there’s not evidence of him implementing a clear style of play, would have a lot more patience if he was His master game plan consists of DJ as a WB, Thompson shoring up the midfield and Laurent pulling the strings in midfield. What possibly could go wrong, honestly just sack him. No it doesn't, he's played two games at lwb, if it was his master plan he'd have started the season there. |
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Post by CBUFAWKIPWH on Sept 26, 2023 7:52:22 GMT
I think we are missing big Souttar who we did have for half of last season. He played 7 matches for us and was clearly not at his best. We need a decent centre back but selling Souttar was good business. |
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Post by andycooke96 on Sept 26, 2023 7:54:46 GMT
One of the arguments we’re seeing in favour of sticking with Neil is that it takes time to gel this many signings etc, this might be a valid argument if we had a clear plan and style, Neil hasn’t had that since he joined the club and he’s changing so much game by game that there’s no way the squad will gel. This is on him. ‘The players aren’t good/committed enough’ with the exception of Thompson and Bonham, I don’t think there’s anybody in our squad who wouldn’t at least make the bench for a top ten team. In terms of lack of application I don’t think there’s much evidence for this on the pitch, there is definitely evidence for a lack of direction. Imo Neil has our best squad since 2016 and he is currently wasting its talent, if we stick with him we risk wasting another season and moving ever closer to spending an entire decade being a bang average and mediocre club. This is fine if people have no ambition, but given the majority of us want to enjoy our Saturdays, I’d argue a managerial change is needed sooner rather than later. Thompson? Fml The post was meant to say Thompson and bonham wouldn’t get into any other championship team, not that they are the only committed ones |
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Post by march4 on Sept 26, 2023 7:56:29 GMT
The silliest arguments are the ridiculous ones doubting the future of AN or the Coates family.
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Post by stokie1947 on Sept 26, 2023 7:59:22 GMT
if only we had kept Collins also if if if our defence has been crap since Huth and Shawcross days
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 26, 2023 8:00:19 GMT
The silliest arguments are the ridiculous ones doubting the future of AN or the Coates family. AN is very much in control of his own future at this point march. The only thing that can topple him is his own underperformance and neglect of key parts of the team. If he continues to do that, and I say that as someone who doesn't think he's a terrible manager and thinks there is still every chance he can be a success ultimately - he'll nevertheless be toast by November, whatever the Coates family might want or hope for. I'd have thought you'd have been horrified by some of the defending in recent weeks, TP would be having sleepless nights about our inability to defend set pieces or the most basic low ball across the box? |
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Post by J-Roar on Sept 26, 2023 8:04:18 GMT
The silliest arguments are the ridiculous ones doubting the future of AN or the Coates family. No one is doubting the Coates' future. Just pointing out their record as some of the richest owners in the league absolutely stinks and their approach of appointing a manager and letting him change the entire structure of the club is outdated and a strategic disaster. |
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Post by Clayton Wood on Sept 26, 2023 8:11:30 GMT
The silliest arguments are the ridiculous ones doubting the future of AN or the Coates family. Cracking series Mortimer and Whitehouse on a Sunday night. |
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Post by professorplump on Sept 26, 2023 8:20:35 GMT
I agree but there’s not evidence of him implementing a clear style of play, would have a lot more patience if he was His master game plan consists of DJ as a WB, Thompson shoring up the midfield and Laurent pulling the strings in midfield. What possibly could go wrong, honestly just sack him. Thompson is hardly his master plan. He played because Pearson can't stop being booked. If you don't want Thompson or Laurent, with Pearson suspended and Baker injured, who exactly would you have picked for our midfield on Sunday? |
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Post by Gods on Sept 26, 2023 8:25:22 GMT
I think we are missing big Souttar who we did have for half of last season. He played 7 matches for us and was clearly not at his best. We need a decent centre back but selling Souttar was good business. I appreciate he got a bad injury but I suppose the real point is until then we did have a commanding centre back who can win every header and now we don't. |
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Post by iglugluk on Sept 26, 2023 8:43:00 GMT
I think we are missing big Souttar who we did have for half of last season. He played 7 matches for us and was clearly not at his best. We need a decent centre back but selling Souttar was good business. Absolutely right and not replacing him properly across 2 transfer windows whilst relying on Wilmott is a mystery .. even more so when taking into account the amount of business we did over the summer. |
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Post by knype on Sept 26, 2023 8:43:30 GMT
The post was meant to say Thompson and bonham wouldn’t get into any other championship team, not that they are the only committed ones Had me worried there! |
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Post by philb on Sept 26, 2023 8:51:10 GMT
It does take time for players to gel, BUT this argument that it should take 10-12 games is rubbish. They’re seasoned professionals that have probably played in most formations over their careers. They train 3 odd times a week and have played loads of games in training etc to get used to the way each player plays and their attributes etc. It shouldn’t take that long IF the manager said from the start “we’re playing a 433 or 4231 and this is how I want you to do it” He hasn’t and their in lies the problem. Players aren’t stupid and pick up their roles pretty quickly. This is on the manager for me.
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Post by GrahamHyde on Sept 26, 2023 8:51:15 GMT
I think we are missing big Souttar who we did have for half of last season. I'd take Phil Jagielka back at this point. |
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Post by ceejays on Sept 26, 2023 8:58:25 GMT
The silliest arguments are the ridiculous ones doubting the future of AN or the Coates family. As I was leaving on Sunday I overheard a conversation crossing the bridge between two guys debating what would happen when Peter passed away . One was adamant that the club would be sold . The other was of the same view but not in the immediate aftermath of his parting. It would be disrespectful to his memory was the point he made . My personal view is that Denise would not sell |
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Sept 26, 2023 9:11:35 GMT
It does take time to gel though, that's the sticking point. The issue with Neil, or what the question should be is....is he doing all he can to help reduce that gelling period or is he adding to the issues with the chopping and changing and playing players out of position in a system that doesn't suit most of the players he's recruited? Hull have gelled quite quickly and no excuses there Maybe they can put 11 players out to keep it fairly simple rather than throwing players at a formation when it isn't working again after changing it every game ...badly |
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Post by benjaminbiscuit on Sept 26, 2023 9:13:26 GMT
There ia nothing , to support this ideas he ahs a good squad , its unbalanced , lacks physicality and championship how. A goal scorer or cover at left back , Tymon and Brown walk into the first team literally at hew moment its a absolutely shambles for whoever inherits it and Martin and Jared need to go as well So if the squad is so shit and the transfer window is shut how does changing the manager and backroom staff actually help? If anything it is bound to make things worse This is Neil's squad and he needs time to get it to work. If he can't do it then fine get rid bit not to give him time is just daft. It's highly unlikely too but its going to be the only option . No one can name a manager that's recovered from a first 50 games like this amd gone om to succeed. I agree it will take a genius to improve results with these tools but results will force us to try |
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Post by skip on Sept 26, 2023 9:20:19 GMT
It does take time to gel though, that's the sticking point. Wa-hey! <trombone slide> FWIW, the new phrase 'time to gel' is already wearing thin for me. If he is treating this season as a period of time to push for a good season next season, it renders this season little more than a nine month training exercise but with the added risk of relegation. Lose two more and he's gone for me. |
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