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Post by fca47 on Sept 26, 2023 9:22:22 GMT
Didn't Luton have a much changed squad last year? Injuries haven't helped, especially the forwards, but the lineups have been really weird. To me I'd rather see youngsters given the chance in their proper positions, than playing half the side out of position to cover for injuries , can't see that it helps anyone
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Sept 26, 2023 9:24:15 GMT
Hard for a team to gel also when you keep changing it, picking one that doesn't work every week and make panic subs early in games also in the hope you'll get lucky .
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Post by prestwichpotter on Sept 26, 2023 9:24:20 GMT
Football is all about partnerships on the field. How can 2 centre backs gel when the personnel and formation change every week, how does a midfielder get to understand the runs his striker instinctively makes, or a number 10 form an understanding with the midfielders/forwards he's trying to link up with?
People moan about 3-5-2/3-4-2-1/3-5-1-1 but honestly if we played it every week and tried to get better at it, it would still be preferable to the current "throw enough shit and some of it will stick" approach. Pick a formation, have your best XI in mind and simply tweak when injuries/form dictates.
I go back to my point at the weekend, in 3 or even 4 games this season AN has had to fundamentally change our approach to the game by taking a player/players off before or during half time because he's got it so wrong. That's negligent from a highly paid and so-called tactically astute manager.............
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2023 9:33:52 GMT
we all know, for teams of a similar level , in the same league, the game is 50 % tactics , team shape ...technicalities if you like .
And 50 % passion , desire , wanting it more than the other lot .
So AN is wasting his time beginning a sentence ... time to gel blah blah
Hull wanted it more than us , so they won .
AN needs to first and foremost , get the passion /desire / wanting it more than the other lot ,sorted, before he starts worrying about shape , tactics and gelling .
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Post by boskampsflaps on Sept 26, 2023 9:36:21 GMT
It does take time to gel though, that's the sticking point. The issue with Neil, or what the question should be is....is he doing all he can to help reduce that gelling period or is he adding to the issues with the chopping and changing and playing players out of position in a system that doesn't suit most of the players he's recruited? Hull have gelled quite quickly and no excuses there Maybe they can put 11 players out to keep it fairly simple rather than throwing players at a formation when it isn't working again after changing it every game ...badly As I don't actually know and not trying to be a smart arse, how many of their starting 11 are new signings?
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Post by mamathestriker on Sept 26, 2023 9:42:01 GMT
Ultimately it's a correct statement.
That said, you factor in last season and that AN really doesn't appear to know what to do with the players he's bought, it's worrying. He's not helping them gel is he?
A Preston fan I know said most of the players he bought for them were disappointing. So far it's looking like we'll be saying the same.
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 26, 2023 9:42:10 GMT
we all know, for teams of a similar level , in the same league, the game is 50 % tactics , team shape ...technicalities if you like . And 50 % passion , desire , wanting it more than the other lot . So AN is wasting his time beginning a sentence ... time to gel blah blah Hull wanted it more than us , so they won . AN needs to first and foremost , get the passion /desire / wanting it more than the other lot ,sorted, before he starts worrying about shape , tactics and gelling . Think team shape and tactics were a big reason why Hull won tbh.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Sept 26, 2023 10:45:12 GMT
we all know, for teams of a similar level , in the same league, the game is 50 % tactics , team shape ...technicalities if you like . And 50 % passion , desire , wanting it more than the other lot . So AN is wasting his time beginning a sentence ... time to gel blah blah Hull wanted it more than us , so they won . AN needs to first and foremost , get the passion /desire / wanting it more than the other lot ,sorted, before he starts worrying about shape , tactics and gelling . Think team shape and tactics were a big reason why Hull won tbh. And a stoke team that is already showing signs of bewilderment. Resulting in less than 100% being put in by certain players. This will flat spin into discontent in the dressing room very very quickly. I suspect its already begun. He's got one hell of a job on now. Yes he's got a lot of new players but he's been here 15 months now and not a sniff of a plan or an identity that as fans we could at least see and be more forgiving. He's currently ballsing it reet up. And now has to find wins on a very difficult run of games to turn it around. I wish him lots of luck over the next 4 games but its looking like an ascent of Everest right now.
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Post by cvillestokie on Sept 26, 2023 10:46:33 GMT
His master game plan consists of DJ as a WB, Thompson shoring up the midfield and Laurent pulling the strings in midfield. What possibly could go wrong, honestly just sack him. Thompson is hardly his master plan. He played because Pearson can't stop being booked. If you don't want Thompson or Laurent, with Pearson suspended and Baker injured, who exactly would you have picked for our midfield on Sunday? Laurent shouldn’t play. He’s crap. Let Bae play and have him do it sitting just behind the front two. I don’t mind Thompson. However, we could have also played Johnson in his stead and used Hoever on the right and Gooch on the left (or vice-versa).
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Post by onepara on Sept 26, 2023 10:47:19 GMT
we all know, for teams of a similar level , in the same league, the game is 50 % tactics , team shape ...technicalities if you like . And 50 % passion , desire , wanting it more than the other lot . So AN is wasting his time beginning a sentence ... time to gel blah blah Hull wanted it more than us , so they won . AN needs to first and foremost , get the passion /desire / wanting it more than the other lot ,sorted, before he starts worrying about shape , tactics and gelling . Think team shape and tactics were a big reason why Hull won tbh. Hull won because they knew what they were doing. The Manager had a plan & they played to it.
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Post by caine on Sept 26, 2023 10:54:05 GMT
I think it's silly to think we wouldn't struggle. Think not many clubs with this kind of overhaul would be doing well.
I do think Neil plays wrong formations in certain games with the wrong players but we have also had Vidigal out, Stephens (our only LB) and Mmaee. I think it was criminal not signing a LB in the window and i also expected better of the CBs that have come in particularly McNally.
It's still early days and we will improve but i am expecting another summer rebuild before we really push on. We really need a striker and would be happy to cash in on Campbell now and do something in Jan even.
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Post by thornestein on Sept 26, 2023 11:00:55 GMT
It does take time to gel though, that's the sticking point. The issue with Neil, or what the question should be is....is he doing all he can to help reduce that gelling period or is he adding to the issues with the chopping and changing and playing players out of position in a system that doesn't suit most of the players he's recruited? as someone on here as said Hull signed 17 after getting rid of 10 , they looked pretty gelled to me , just lame excuses
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Post by caine on Sept 26, 2023 11:14:24 GMT
It does take time to gel though, that's the sticking point. The issue with Neil, or what the question should be is....is he doing all he can to help reduce that gelling period or is he adding to the issues with the chopping and changing and playing players out of position in a system that doesn't suit most of the players he's recruited? as someone on here as said Hull signed 17 after getting rid of 10 , they looked pretty gelled to me , just lame excuses They looked more balanced but have they brought in as many foreign players as us? I mean we cant blame Neil for Wilmot being a pussy and getting bullied by Bidace. The second was awful defending and the 3rd was going near the corner flag until it deflected. I am hoping it was just one of those days.... But he really needs to go back to 433
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Post by independent on Sept 26, 2023 11:16:29 GMT
I think it's silly to think we wouldn't struggle. Think not many clubs with this kind of overhaul would be doing well. I do think Neil plays wrong formations in certain games with the wrong players but we have also had Vidigal out, Stephens (our only LB) and Mmaee. I think it was criminal not signing a LB in the window and i also expected better of the CBs that have come in particularly McNally. It's still early days and we will improve but i am expecting another summer rebuild before we really push on. We really need a striker and would be happy to cash in on Campbell now and do something in Jan even. Think:Forest, Luton, Hull, Burnley for a start.
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Post by mickeythemaestro on Sept 26, 2023 11:21:24 GMT
I think it's silly to think we wouldn't struggle. Think not many clubs with this kind of overhaul would be doing well. I do think Neil plays wrong formations in certain games with the wrong players but we have also had Vidigal out, Stephens (our only LB) and Mmaee. I think it was criminal not signing a LB in the window and i also expected better of the CBs that have come in particularly McNally. It's still early days and we will improve but i am expecting another summer rebuild before we really push on. We really need a striker and would be happy to cash in on Campbell now and do something in Jan even. Another 2 windows before we see us kick on. I admire your patience pal I really do. Not for me. Hes had 15 months and nowt but the personnel has changed yet he's playing em out of position already. He's lost the plot.
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Post by wakefieldstokie on Sept 26, 2023 11:21:58 GMT
It does take time to gel though, that's the sticking point. Wa-hey! <trombone slide> FWIW, the new phrase 'time to gel' is already wearing thin for me. If he is treating this season as a period of time to push for a good season next season, it renders this season little more than a nine month training exercise but with the added risk of relegation. Lose two more and he's gone for me. Wa-hey! <trombone slide> 'we dont need time to gel' post 'gel', get to know each other, understand each other's games, whatever, it's true, it's needed. It shouldn't detract from highlighting problems, dodgy formations etc. But do not dismiss that any group of individuals needs time to get to know how each other works/thinks etc.
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Post by caine on Sept 26, 2023 11:24:27 GMT
I think it's silly to think we wouldn't struggle. Think not many clubs with this kind of overhaul would be doing well. I do think Neil plays wrong formations in certain games with the wrong players but we have also had Vidigal out, Stephens (our only LB) and Mmaee. I think it was criminal not signing a LB in the window and i also expected better of the CBs that have come in particularly McNally. It's still early days and we will improve but i am expecting another summer rebuild before we really push on. We really need a striker and would be happy to cash in on Campbell now and do something in Jan even. Think:Forest, Luton, Hull, Burnley for a start. Forest- took them good 3-4 months to pick up did it not Luton- This season or last? I thought they pretty much had same squad last year and didn't have 8 plus new starters? Could be wrong. Hull- Looked decent but had known championship players and haven't gone as risky as us with foreign buys. Burnley- Spent a lot, again really good business, Tella etc we have gone cheaper on lots of players
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Post by theonlooker on Sept 26, 2023 12:20:05 GMT
It does take time to gel though, that's the sticking point. The issue with Neil, or what the question should be is....is he doing all he can to help reduce that gelling period or is he adding to the issues with the chopping and changing and playing players out of position in a system that doesn't suit most of the players he's recruited? as someone on here as said Hull signed 17 after getting rid of 10 , they looked pretty gelled to me , just lame excuses According to transfermarkt they've signed 11.
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Post by wakeypotter on Sept 26, 2023 12:29:14 GMT
we all know, for teams of a similar level , in the same league, the game is 50 % tactics , team shape ...technicalities if you like . And 50 % passion , desire , wanting it more than the other lot . So AN is wasting his time beginning a sentence ... time to gel blah blah Hull wanted it more than us , so they won . AN needs to first and foremost , get the passion /desire / wanting it more than the other lot ,sorted, before he starts worrying about shape , tactics and gelling . Think team shape and tactics were a big reason why Hull won tbh. They also seem to lack in motivation to me something I would have thought AN would have instilled in them but there’s no fight in this team which is worrying maybe apart from Pearson. It’s always the opposition taking the game to us in the first half while our players don’t look interested
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Post by The Toxic Avenger on Sept 26, 2023 12:46:59 GMT
Think team shape and tactics were a big reason why Hull won tbh. They also seem to lack in motivation to me something I would have thought AN would have instilled in them but there’s no fight in this team which is worrying maybe apart from Pearson. It’s always the opposition taking the game to us in the first half while our players don’t look interested To be fair against Huddersfield we took the game to them and even on Sunday we probably shaded the first half an hour or so. We're just so brittle that conceding is completely inevitable. We seemed surprised by the pace of the game at times and as the game wore on there were definitely players hiding and not wanting to take any responsibility. I think the players do care - it's something a coherent plan and some defensive drills should be able to fix without too much difficulty, but that seems to be beyond Neil for some reason.
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Post by maine on Sept 26, 2023 12:52:05 GMT
I think I accept the 'taking time to gel' notion. The bright aspects to date are that the individual skill levels have definitely improved from last season. Gooch is better than I expected and Vidigal, Burger and Junho are evidently talented. The little I've seen of the guys from Colchester and Celtic has been encouraging. Stevens seems fine. I'm not convinced by Mmae, Mcnally or Wesley, and Rose has been so so. Neil's substitutions have been a bit confusing. If Burger wasn't injured he was the last of the midfielders who should have come off, and Wesley would have been my last choice to replace him. Laurent and Thompson have been poor. All in all though, this squad are potentially still top 6, and I still have enough confidence to think that the current manager can get us there.
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Post by thornestein on Sept 26, 2023 14:32:10 GMT
as someone on here as said Hull signed 17 after getting rid of 10 , they looked pretty gelled to me , just lame excuses According to transfermarkt they've signed 11. 17 or 11 they didn’t need to gel to play well , lame excuses don’t wash with me
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Post by wakeypotter on Sept 27, 2023 8:54:48 GMT
They also seem to lack in motivation to me something I would have thought AN would have instilled in them but there’s no fight in this team which is worrying maybe apart from Pearson. It’s always the opposition taking the game to us in the first half while our players don’t look interested To be fair against Huddersfield we took the game to them and even on Sunday we probably shaded the first half an hour or so. We're just so brittle that conceding is completely inevitable. We seemed surprised by the pace of the game at times and as the game wore on there were definitely players hiding and not wanting to take any responsibility. I think the players do care - it's something a coherent plan and some defensive drills should be able to fix without too much difficulty, but that seems to be beyond Neil for some reason. Good assessment that although with the 3 centre half’s we have got I can’t see us being solid. Need to definitely go to 4 at the back which may help a little. Also we look toothless up top but could get better but feel after the window we have been left short in those areas
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Sept 27, 2023 8:59:06 GMT
The previous manager had the worst injury list I've ever seen and somehow managed to have a better points record per game.
Let's not add injuries to the Neil book of excuses
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Post by vidigal7 on Sept 27, 2023 9:10:53 GMT
You're not going to be Mo Farah 8 weeks after open heart surgery, without even so much as a jog and a bruised knee for good measure
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Sept 27, 2023 9:21:11 GMT
You're not going to be Mo Farah 8 weeks after open heart surgery, without even so much as a jog and a bruised knee for good measure Hull are doing ok We're more like Moe Syzlak
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Post by vidigal7 on Sept 27, 2023 9:25:19 GMT
You're not going to be Mo Farah 8 weeks after open heart surgery, without even so much as a jog and a bruised knee for good measure Hull are doing ok We're more like Moe Syzlak They are to be fair, fair play to them. Far from the final table yet though, a few injuries in the wrong areas and things can soon start to go tits up. It's a marathon isn't it not a sprint
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Sept 27, 2023 9:27:02 GMT
Hull are doing ok We're more like Moe Syzlak They are to be fair, fair play to them. Far from the final table yet though, a few injuries in the wrong areas and things can soon start to go tits up They have a system and stuck with it. I think the difference is, they've signed players to play that way, we've signed players and looking for a way to play them.
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Post by vidigal7 on Sept 27, 2023 9:31:50 GMT
They are to be fair, fair play to them. Far from the final table yet though, a few injuries in the wrong areas and things can soon start to go tits up They have a system and stuck with it. I think the difference is, they've signed players to play that way, we've signed players and looking for a way to play them. I do understand where you're coming from on the face of it but I don't believe for one second we've recruited just anyone without a plan. As manager try explaining that to Jon Coates early summer after bringing in Dublin, it's not happening in reality is it. Unless all the media talk is pure bluff, which in reality, it isn't is it. However I do believe that's exactly what we have done in the past
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Post by crouchpotato1 on Sept 27, 2023 9:34:45 GMT
Hull did indeed sign 10/11 players but 6 of their starting line up on Sunday were starters last season Compare that to our team and I think we had 3🤔 I have no issue with folk saying we should be doing better because Sunday was dreadful but to compare the 2 clubs with players signed is not right in my opinion
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