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Post by Gary Hackett on Sept 24, 2023 15:48:28 GMT
Playing gooch ahead of Hoever as attacking full back Playing Jordan Thompson Playing two men up front, both wingers. Playing our biggest slowest defender as a wide centre back being pulled out and exposed constantly None of it makes sense. Gooch was our best player, with a steady 7 Hoever wasn't fit enough to start either.
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Post by mrnovember on Sept 24, 2023 15:51:15 GMT
I want to know the thought process the powers-that-be had when the bid for Tymon was accepted. At what point did we think Gooch and Tchamadeu were the best way to spend £2m+ in that last 36 hours, with an injury-prone 33yo the only LB on the books? I think time will tell as to the potential of Junior. If it helped to finance that deal, and he turns out to be a bit of an asset, I think it was the right decision. Just. To suggest otherwise is perhaps overstating Tymons contribution to the team over the last few years.
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Post by shrewspotter on Sept 24, 2023 15:51:39 GMT
You know I can handle losing, even its to a shit team with shit support
My issue is the selection and formation, if we played something like Travers, Gooch, Rose, McNally, Tchamedeu, burger, Johnson, Laurent, Campbell, Vidigal, Hacks in a 433 I don't think he would be getting the stick he's getting even if we lost. Sure we all have different opinions on the side but we can all agree the base of the side and tactics are similar for all us fans
If you'd have quizzed all 20k stoke fans on the way in, I think only around 100 would have said that side and formation was a good idea
It is clear to me that we are at our best with 4 at the back and players playing in their natural positions
Playing your number 10 at lwb, then your winger in the number 10 slot is like the school maths teacher whose been roped into the managing the school football team tactics.
For the love of God Neil play 433, 4231 or even 442, you've had all summer to sort the side out, play your best players in their best positions, then guess what.....we might win a few, in the meantime fuck off with your 532 and square pegs, round holes
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Post by Pretty Little Boother on Sept 24, 2023 15:54:42 GMT
Think I saw An Embarrassing Display of Incompetent Management supporting World of Twist back in the 90s.
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Post by shrewspotter on Sept 24, 2023 15:56:39 GMT
As so often happens when I hear the team read out pre-match, my heart sinks, knowing that we're in for yet another aimless, shapeless display. The 3-5-2 system we adopted at Huddersfield looked like a dog's dinner, and it only picked up a point due to how bad the opposition were. Sticking with it against a decent Hull side was the first of many poor decisions from Alex Neil today. First of all, Daniel Johnson isn't a wing back. He's versatile, but only in an attacking sense. Could it be that a decision to sell our best (only) left wing-back an hour before the transfer window closed then switch to a system that uses wing-backs is actually the most thick-as-pigshit decision we've seen in recent times? I'm not sure, because the decision to load the squad with wingers, have four of them on the pitch at one time today, but not a single one actually playing as a winger could equal it. Yep, how about a forward pairing of two tricky wingers who both look like they can beat a man and cut in...why don't we pair them up and lump the ball forward to them, while we leave our target man on the bench. How's that for a plan? Or what about this:we'll line up with 3 at the back and very high wing backs. So high up in fact (none of those stupid fans will be able to say we were negative then!) that there are two enormous spaces on either flank. Acres of room...hectares of room...great fucking swathes of African plain levels of room...where wildebeests can roam and Hull wingers can run into space completely unopposed, pulling our Three Stooges backline (or the Three Fannies as I've christened them) all over the place. Fair play to Liam Rosenior because he spotted this after about ten minutes, switching from a 4-4-2 to a 4-3-3 with his wingers high up in these unmanned spaces. A competent manager, however- someone who knows how tactics work rather than, say, a complete and utter fuckwit- would respond by switching to 4 at the back and blocking off these sudden avenues of joy that Hull had discovered. We didn't do that though. We just let them keep doing it as our defence flailed about, our midfielders had no idea whether to drop into spaces, track runners or press the ball. Instead they just stood transfixed, unsure as to what was being asked of them, watching waves of Hull players pour forward into our half unchallenged. It's absolutely pathetic. I feel sorry for the players, because it isn't going to be possible for them to gel unless they've actually got some sort of consistent structure and game plan to play to. Whatever we were trying to do today I have absolutely no idea. They didn't either. It was shambolic, and every single one of them was hung out to dry by an idiot who needs to sort his shit out immediately or fuck off out of this job. i was delighted when Tymon went, not because I disliked him. It meant that the hated wingback system was gone forever, once and for all. Never did I think that we would continue to play the wingback system just without the wingbacks to do so
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samuel32
Youth Player
Jack Clarke's Shorts
Posts: 367
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Post by samuel32 on Sept 24, 2023 15:56:57 GMT
Ricky Martin said in pre-season that we've signed players to give Neil 'options'. But surely we just need one very good, consistent way of playing, most of the time? Instead Neil keeps chopping and changing every game or two because he has no confidence in one single approach (or hasn't signed like for like back ups). And, guess what? The players now have no confidence in what they're doing either.
After all the managers we've been through I don't want to change again. But unless Neil changes, we need someone new. Coates Sr & Jr are fans, and they'll see what we're seeing, hopefully. But they really need to go for a progressive, visionary manager not the stale, same old crap we've had recently.
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Post by idle on Sept 24, 2023 16:00:13 GMT
What? The Hamilton Academicals GK coach? Well, he might not be any worse...
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 24, 2023 16:03:04 GMT
TP and Shawcross in by Xmas. Only joking. The sad part is in the unlikely event of AN getting the chop, who would be next on the rank. Wilder? Pulis would have this squad in the playoffs with his eyes closed. We’ll end up with Wilder. He’s the type the clueless owners go for. Lazy arsed
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Post by pavel on Sept 24, 2023 16:03:34 GMT
As so often happens when I hear the team read out pre-match, my heart sinks, knowing that we're in for yet another aimless, shapeless display. The 3-5-2 system we adopted at Huddersfield looked like a dog's dinner, and it only picked up a point due to how bad the opposition were. Sticking with it against a decent Hull side was the first of many poor decisions from Alex Neil today. First of all, Daniel Johnson isn't a wing back. He's versatile, but only in an attacking sense. Could it be that a decision to sell our best (only) left wing-back an hour before the transfer window closed then switch to a system that uses wing-backs is actually the most thick-as-pigshit decision we've seen in recent times? I'm not sure, because the decision to load the squad with wingers, have four of them on the pitch at one time today, but not a single one actually playing as a winger could equal it. Yep, how about a forward pairing of two tricky wingers who both look like they can beat a man and cut in...why don't we pair them up and lump the ball forward to them, while we leave our target man on the bench. How's that for a plan? Or what about this:we'll line up with 3 at the back and very high wing backs. So high up in fact (none of those stupid fans will be able to say we were negative then!) that there are two enormous spaces on either flank. Acres of room...hectares of room...great fucking swathes of African plain levels of room...where wildebeests can roam and Hull wingers can run into space completely unopposed, pulling our Three Stooges backline (or the Three Fannies as I've christened them) all over the place. Fair play to Liam Rosenior because he spotted this after about ten minutes, switching from a 4-4-2 to a 4-3-3 with his wingers high up in these unmanned spaces. A competent manager, however- someone who knows how tactics work rather than, say, a complete and utter fuckwit- would respond by switching to 4 at the back and blocking off these sudden avenues of joy that Hull had discovered. We didn't do that though. We just let them keep doing it as our defence flailed about, our midfielders had no idea whether to drop into spaces, track runners or press the ball. Instead they just stood transfixed, unsure as to what was being asked of them, watching waves of Hull players pour forward into our half unchallenged. It's absolutely pathetic. I feel sorry for the players, because it isn't going to be possible for them to gel unless they've actually got some sort of consistent structure and game plan to play to. Whatever we were trying to do today I have absolutely no idea. They didn't either. It was shambolic, and every single one of them was hung out to dry by an idiot who needs to sort his shit out immediately or fuck off out of this job. What a wonderfully descriptive paragraph, wildebeests indeed (perhaps Gnu's is even better in the context of the chaos). I too feel sorry for the players, they obviously haven't a clue what they have been dropped into, tumble drier tactics, no shape, how many different roles have some of these players been asked to play already. It's a tombola style line up, see which ball comes out for a player and then match with another ball which designates the position, same goes for tactics and then it's frozen in time. The midfield is overwhelmed so take off one of your midfielders and move a winger into it, sheer genius. (Edit: seems Burger was injured but surely you just replace him with a midfielder, bring Junho on and drop Laurent back, better still take Laurent off as well and bring on Sidebe). I don't think Neil's capable of sorting his shit out, there is just too much and too many areas that he's failing in, lost in space.
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Post by sportsman on Sept 24, 2023 16:07:02 GMT
I preferred it when we pressed teams high up. Hull defence and keeper were all over the place early on het me didn't really press them, just let them have it and they were still giving it away. If we'd pressed them I'm sure we'd have had early joy.
It also, especially at home, gets the crowd up with the tempo.
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Post by thisisouryear on Sept 24, 2023 16:07:16 GMT
You know I can handle losing, even its to a shit team with shit support My issue is the selection and formation, if we played something like Travers, Gooch, Rose, McNally, Tchamedeu, burger, Johnson, Laurent, Campbell, Vidigal, Hacks in a 433 I don't think he would be getting the stick he's getting even if we lost. Sure we all have different opinions on the side but we can all agree the base of the side and tactics are similar for all us fans If you'd have quizzed all 20k stoke fans on the way in, I think only around 100 would have said that side and formation was a good idea It is clear to me that we are at our best with 4 at the back and players playing in their natural positions Playing your number 10 at lwb, then your winger in the number 10 slot is like the school maths teacher whose been roped into the managing the school football team tactics. For the love of God Neil play 433, 4231 or even 442, you've had all summer to sort the side out, play your best players in their best positions, then guess what.....we might win a few, in the meantime fuck off with your 532 and square pegs, round holes It's just reckless management. We have a new team that needs time to gel. A run of games with a pretty much a fixed formation and a way of playing combined with players in their right positions would go a long way to help give them time to gel and get some sort of rhythm. It just feels like he's changing too much and confusing the players when they're not ready for it. Most of these players barely know each other, he's asking them to run before they can walk.
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Post by peepin on Sept 24, 2023 16:07:27 GMT
As so often happens when I hear the team read out pre-match, my heart sinks, knowing that we're in for yet another aimless, shapeless display. The 3-5-2 system we adopted at Huddersfield looked like a dog's dinner, and it only picked up a point due to how bad the opposition were. Sticking with it against a decent Hull side was the first of many poor decisions from Alex Neil today. First of all, Daniel Johnson isn't a wing back. He's versatile, but only in an attacking sense. Could it be that a decision to sell our best (only) left wing-back an hour before the transfer window closed then switch to a system that uses wing-backs is actually the most thick-as-pigshit decision we've seen in recent times? I'm not sure, because the decision to load the squad with wingers, have four of them on the pitch at one time today, but not a single one actually playing as a winger could equal it. Yep, how about a forward pairing of two tricky wingers who both look like they can beat a man and cut in...why don't we pair them up and lump the ball forward to them, while we leave our target man on the bench. How's that for a plan? Or what about this:we'll line up with 3 at the back and very high wing backs. So high up in fact (none of those stupid fans will be able to say we were negative then!) that there are two enormous spaces on either flank. Acres of room...hectares of room...great fucking swathes of African plain levels of room...where wildebeests can roam and Hull wingers can run into space completely unopposed, pulling our Three Stooges backline (or the Three Fannies as I've christened them) all over the place. Fair play to Liam Rosenior because he spotted this after about ten minutes, switching from a 4-4-2 to a 4-3-3 with his wingers high up in these unmanned spaces. A competent manager, however- someone who knows how tactics work rather than, say, a complete and utter fuckwit- would respond by switching to 4 at the back and blocking off these sudden avenues of joy that Hull had discovered. We didn't do that though. We just let them keep doing it as our defence flailed about, our midfielders had no idea whether to drop into spaces, track runners or press the ball. Instead they just stood transfixed, unsure as to what was being asked of them, watching waves of Hull players pour forward into our half unchallenged. It's absolutely pathetic. I feel sorry for the players, because it isn't going to be possible for them to gel unless they've actually got some sort of consistent structure and game plan to play to. Whatever we were trying to do today I have absolutely no idea. They didn't either. It was shambolic, and every single one of them was hung out to dry by an idiot who needs to sort his shit out immediately or fuck off out of this job. Having decided to leave at half time, this exactly how I saw those first 45 minutes.
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Post by robwahlmann on Sept 24, 2023 16:11:35 GMT
When did we play our best football last season? Yes, when we played with a back 4 and wingers! It really worked well for a short spell, and maybe because of that he brought players in to play that system, but what does he do!!?? He goes back to 3 at the back, which doesn't suit any of our 3 central defenders, and then play with no wingers as well! What's wrong with the tactical genius!? Hasn't he noticed this, or does he think he will outsmart the other managers by doing this!!? Could we please play 4 at the back and stick to a system that works!!?? I'm sick of seeing all this nonsense repeated again and again!
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Post by theonlooker on Sept 24, 2023 16:12:37 GMT
No spanking paddles or Black Mamba's, courtesy of Lord Dennis of Etruria, Trouserdog?
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Post by lordb on Sept 24, 2023 16:14:46 GMT
Gooch was our best player, with a steady 7 I can't remember one single attempt at a cross all game. I remember watching second half when he plenty of chances to cross it and he kept trying take his man on and run it into the boothen. Plenty of effort though and certainly not the worst of the bunch Yeah no more than a 7 Gooch isn't going to win matches, just thought he competed and looked switched on defensively which is a: the bare minimum required And b: more than any one else did Wes put himself about a bit
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Post by stokecityhorrorstory on Sept 24, 2023 16:21:12 GMT
As I know live a nine hour round trip away, I at least only have to go to the tv or pc to watch the games!
On the subject of Rosenior, very telling in his interview on SS when he said ‘we have a system, the players like the system and we are all comfortable with it’.
So ostensibly, this rookie manager challenges teams to play against their system whilst ours empties the midfield and wings, making the same errors virtually every game.
The amount of space down our flanks is incredible and every team that plays us with that system know the WBs are out of their natural position and not tracking back.
And as has been added a number of times, sign wingers, sell our only WB and the play a WB system. Almost like Neil is an agent of the fail!
Got to be gone soon, he looked bereft of any idea during the match and in his post match interview.
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Post by Pugsley on Sept 24, 2023 16:21:12 GMT
I preferred it when we pressed teams high up. Hull defence and keeper were all over the place early on het me didn't really press them, just let them have it and they were still giving it away. If we'd pressed them I'm sure we'd have had early joy. It also, especially at home, gets the crowd up with the tempo. We did press, then Hull exposed us with long balls out wide. Proven at this level Neil was outcoached by 49 game Rosenior. Get gone Neil
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Post by Dutchpeter on Sept 24, 2023 16:24:53 GMT
We need to get outside the main entrance and let our feelings known. Eloquence social media posts are one thing and can be ignored. Belligerent action with real people that can be seen and heard by the hierarchy is something else. Mills Out!
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Post by march4 on Sept 24, 2023 16:24:57 GMT
5 of the usual starting 11 missing then two more key players injured within the first 30 mins.
However, let’s over react. It’s more fun!!
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Post by sportsman on Sept 24, 2023 16:30:18 GMT
I preferred it when we pressed teams high up. Hull defence and keeper were all over the place early on het me didn't really press them, just let them have it and they were still giving it away. If we'd pressed them I'm sure we'd have had early joy. It also, especially at home, gets the crowd up with the tempo. We did press, then Hull exposed us with long balls out wide. Proven at this level Neil was outcoached by 49 game Rosenior. Get gone Neil I never noticed us press at the start. I saw the odd forward player wander towards his man on his own every now and then, but not a full on headless chicken press where they all fly at the defenders.
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sevvy
Youth Player
Posts: 342
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Post by sevvy on Sept 24, 2023 16:34:51 GMT
I thought we pressed early on but kept leaving their right back free so he was the out ball each time
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Post by arniehudson on Sept 24, 2023 16:38:08 GMT
The only shock today is how we ever managed to sign a player as good as Vidigal. He wasn’t fit and certainly wasn’t expecting to play 80 minutes yet he gave everything he could. He scored a goal, applauded the fans after the game and even had the decency to apologise for the performance (something his manager and teammates singularly failed to do).
Neill has blamed the players for not committing to the system, what does that tell you Alex? Still why should he bother, a few more performances like that and he’ll be pocketing a seven figure pay off, the big name non performers will be scanning the globe looking for their next destination and we’ll be left with those who were here before Neill and the worst of his signings.
Still we should get a good fee for Vidigal which our next lumpen manager can spend on some more gutless wonders…
of course it could all suddenly click and we get promoted😉
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Post by Mr_DaftBurger on Sept 24, 2023 16:42:03 GMT
I was really hoping this season optimism would last past September... I'll never learn! 😞🤪
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Post by chamberlain on Sept 24, 2023 16:43:20 GMT
5 of the usual starting 11 missing then two more key players injured within the first 30 mins. However, let’s over react. It’s more fun!! Oh yeah , it's all about today's match isn't it
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Post by fishlovesoatcakes on Sept 24, 2023 16:45:39 GMT
No need for another thread. Why not just add to the Neil one? We were terrible today BTW.
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Post by snoogle on Sept 24, 2023 16:53:34 GMT
He's got one more game for me. Bin this 5-3-2/3-5-2 shit forever, set up 4-2-3-1 with Wes leading the line and three quick and skillful fuckers as the 3, Burger and Pearson as the two holders in midfield (drop Laurent, please...) drop one of the crap centre-backs and play a proper full-back (even a right-footed one) as LB. Do that and we'll pick up a decent amount of points. This isn't like last season when the squad was lacking in quality and options were limited: this is a fairly talented bunch who should be doing much better than they are.
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Post by telfordstokie on Sept 24, 2023 16:57:12 GMT
Body language of the players was noticeably terrible throughout the game.
Not to give them a free pass but given its increasingly clear Neil has little confidence in how to set up and keeps switching things around every game, maybe not surprising they don’t seem to believe in whatever it is we are trying to do.
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Post by GreaterGlasgowstokie on Sept 24, 2023 16:58:55 GMT
Playing gooch ahead of Hoever as attacking full back Playing Jordan Thompson Playing two men up front, both wingers. Playing our biggest slowest defender as a wide centre back being pulled out and exposed constantly None of it makes sense. Gooch was our best player, with a steady 7 He's rubbish. At Huddersfield he even got done by the basics, he was standing well outside the line of the midfielder passing the ball and got done by a pass inside him
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Post by smallthorner on Sept 24, 2023 17:02:16 GMT
We're going down quicker than Carol Vorderman's panties.
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Post by cheadlepotter on Sept 24, 2023 17:12:04 GMT
5 of the usual starting 11 missing then two more key players injured within the first 30 mins. However, let’s over react. It’s more fun!! A CM at LWB when there’s an attacking full back that we spent the summer after on the bench. Clearly getting ripped apart with wing backs, keeps it that way until the end. No dominant centre half. Laurent playing. Two short lads up front and playing long ball to them. Vidigal is better than Campbell, the injury was good luck for us. Burger injury was a chance for us to go 433 albeit with Wilmot at RB, instead we went to a formation that our players couldn’t work out until half time. Excuses, excuses, excuses for 12 months now. Your man is a fraud who has never achieved anything with his own players.
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