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Post by Block 26 on Sept 10, 2023 8:26:35 GMT
Said it after the euro final that we will win nothing under Southgate. Letting him continue with the current group of players at his disposal is a waste in my eyes. It’s another golden era in which a decent manager could/should be winning trophy’s with this England team. People keep insisting this group of players are wonderful....they are not. The evidence is out there on the pitch time after time. They don't have the intelligence to make things happen themselves and play this bland sideways/backwards keep possession tripe. Where is the inovation and exciting uplift? People blame the manager but he is not playing. Don't the players have minds of their own? NO they do not! Who picks the team & sets them up the way he wants them to play? That will be the manager. He started 2 DM’s against Ukraine. This England squad is full of superstars whom do it no problem week after week for their club. At international level they have a negative manager holding them back. Can you name one decent side we’ve beaten under Southgate in a tournament? It’s okay beating the shite teams 5 or 6 but once we meet an half decent side we’re out.
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Post by JoeinOz on Sept 10, 2023 8:33:30 GMT
People keep insisting this group of players are wonderful....they are not. The evidence is out there on the pitch time after time. They don't have the intelligence to make things happen themselves and play this bland sideways/backwards keep possession tripe. Where is the inovation and exciting uplift? People blame the manager but he is not playing. Don't the players have minds of their own? NO they do not! Who picks the team & sets them up the way he wants them to play? That will be the manager. He started 2 DM’s against Ukraine. This England squad is full of superstars whom do it no problem week after week for their club. At international level they have a negative manager holding them back. Can you name one decent side we’ve beaten under Southgate in a tournament? It’s okay beating the shite teams 5 or 6 but once we meet an half decent side we’re out. Nowt wrong with playing 2 dm v Ukraine. They aren't San Marino pushovers or anything. They're a decent side galvanised by their predicament. A draw isn't a calamity at all.
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Post by jesusmcmuffin on Sept 10, 2023 8:57:59 GMT
People keep insisting this group of players are wonderful....they are not. The evidence is out there on the pitch time after time. They don't have the intelligence to make things happen themselves and play this bland sideways/backwards keep possession tripe. Where is the inovation and exciting uplift? People blame the manager but he is not playing. Don't the players have minds of their own? NO they do not! Who picks the team & sets them up the way he wants them to play? That will be the manager. He started 2 DM’s against Ukraine. This England squad is full of superstars whom do it no problem week after week for their club. At international level they have a negative manager holding them back. Can you name one decent side we’ve beaten under Southgate in a tournament? It’s okay beating the shite teams 5 or 6 but once we meet an half decent side we’re out. Maybe they need time to gel
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2023 9:01:35 GMT
Who picks the team & sets them up the way he wants them to play? That will be the manager. He started 2 DM’s against Ukraine. This England squad is full of superstars whom do it no problem week after week for their club. At international level they have a negative manager holding them back. Can you name one decent side we’ve beaten under Southgate in a tournament? It’s okay beating the shite teams 5 or 6 but once we meet an half decent side we’re out. Nowt wrong with playing 2 dm v Ukraine. They aren't San Marino pushovers or anything. They're a decent side galvanised by their predicament. A draw isn't a calamity at all. I think the gripe people have isn't so much the result, it's more about the overall performance.
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Post by JoeinOz on Sept 10, 2023 9:12:44 GMT
Nowt wrong with playing 2 dm v Ukraine. They aren't San Marino pushovers or anything. They're a decent side galvanised by their predicament. A draw isn't a calamity at all. I think the gripe people have isn't so much the result, it's more about the overall performance. I didn't think it was catastrophic or anything. We weren't creative enough but having said that, crap Harry's vall for the equaliser was just marvellous. Central defence is problematic but we already knew that. Needs working out
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Post by campbellsleftpeg on Sept 10, 2023 9:12:47 GMT
Who picks the team & sets them up the way he wants them to play? That will be the manager. He started 2 DM’s against Ukraine. This England squad is full of superstars whom do it no problem week after week for their club. At international level they have a negative manager holding them back. Can you name one decent side we’ve beaten under Southgate in a tournament? It’s okay beating the shite teams 5 or 6 but once we meet an half decent side we’re out. Nowt wrong with playing 2 dm v Ukraine. They aren't San Marino pushovers or anything. They're a decent side galvanised by their predicament. A draw isn't a calamity at all. They also arent brazil. 2 DMs is criminal against ukraine with no recognised AM. Awful management
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Post by JoeinOz on Sept 10, 2023 9:16:35 GMT
Nowt wrong with playing 2 dm v Ukraine. They aren't San Marino pushovers or anything. They're a decent side galvanised by their predicament. A draw isn't a calamity at all. They also arent brazil. 2 DMs is criminal against ukraine with no recognised AM. Awful management If 2 dms move with each other there's nowt wrong with it at all.
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Post by thevoid on Sept 10, 2023 10:01:43 GMT
And that performance is why England will never win anything under Southgate
For the sake of argument, if he left the job tomorrow, how many elite clubs would be in for him? I can't imagine many fans would be clamouring for him either.
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Post by JoeinOz on Sept 10, 2023 10:29:29 GMT
And that performance is why England will never win anything under Southgate You can't judge international managers on that alone though. Certainly not an England one
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Post by mrnovember on Sept 10, 2023 10:41:53 GMT
There is nothing wrong with setting up not to lose given the context. This was probably the second trickiest game in a group we are already well in control of.
Let's not forget that Ukraine had a game plan to sit deep and not allow us to play in their final third. They executed it pretty well. The calls for more creativity are understandable but its all well and good but if there is no space for them to work. This was evidenced when Foden and Rashford came on, neither of them were able to contribute any more than the players they replaced.
It's actually a little surprising that Ukraine played so defensively. They probably now need to go and try to force a result in Rome.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2023 11:11:59 GMT
And that performance is why England will never win anything under Southgate You can't judge international managers on that alone though. Certainly not an England one But that negative mindset has cost England in previous competitions. If Southgate would have gone more attacking-based in the Euros final we would have won. Unfortunately, England have a manager who is too scared to lose instead of being too brave to win.
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Post by JoeinOz on Sept 10, 2023 11:23:42 GMT
You can't judge international managers on that alone though. Certainly not an England one But that negative mindset has cost England in previous competitions. If Southgate would have gone more attacking-based in the Euros final we would have won. Unfortunately, England have a manager who is too scared to lose instead of being too brave to win. Croatia was on him but Italy wasn't.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2023 11:27:26 GMT
But that negative mindset has cost England in previous competitions. If Southgate would have gone more attacking-based in the Euros final we would have won. Unfortunately, England have a manager who is too scared to lose instead of being too brave to win. Croatia was on him but Italy wasn't. Italy was. We sat back and let them pummel us. He made substitutions way too late, and the three he brought on all missed penalties.
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Post by JoeinOz on Sept 10, 2023 11:30:29 GMT
Croatia was on him but Italy wasn't. Italy was. We sat back and let them pummel us. He made substitutions way too late, and the three he brought on all missed penalties. Overall we got pegged back by a very good side. Fuck knows what the penalty takers were about though. If Italy hadn't won that they'd be in better shape now.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 10, 2023 11:36:40 GMT
Italy was. We sat back and let them pummel us. He made substitutions way too late, and the three he brought on all missed penalties. Overall we got pegged back by a very good side. Fuck knows what the penalty takers were about though. If Italy hadn't won that they'd be in better shape now. The problem was with that game was scoring so early. Southgate decided to defend the lead instead of killing the game off.
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Post by emretezzy on Sept 10, 2023 11:38:56 GMT
Said it after the euro final that we will win nothing under Southgate. Letting him continue with the current group of players at his disposal is a waste in my eyes. It’s another golden era in which a decent manager could/should be winning trophy’s with this England team. People keep insisting this group of players are wonderful....they are not. The evidence is out there on the pitch time after time. They don't have the intelligence to make things happen themselves and play this bland sideways/backwards keep possession tripe. Where is the inovation and exciting uplift? People blame the manager but he is not playing. Don't the players have minds of their own? NO they do not! Load of rubbish. This England team has been the most entertaining by a mile. Yesterday was bad and Southgate is in danger of pissing too many people off but these players are absolutely world class.
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Post by JoeinOz on Sept 10, 2023 12:10:35 GMT
Overall we got pegged back by a very good side. Fuck knows what the penalty takers were about though. If Italy hadn't won that they'd be in better shape now. The problem was with that game was scoring so early. Southgate decided to defend the lead instead of killing the game off. I felt similar things about Croatia 3 years previously.
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Post by GrahamHyde on Sept 10, 2023 13:02:45 GMT
Italy was. We sat back and let them pummel us. He made substitutions way too late, and the three he brought on all missed penalties. Overall we got pegged back by a very good side. Fuck knows what the penalty takers were about though. If Italy hadn't won that they'd be in better shape now. Good point. Would you rather have won that Euros final and then not qualified for the next two tournaments, or won it and then got to a QF twice (for sake of argument)? Football is more about the experiences for me, trophies are nice but if it came at the expense of participation in a WC then I think I'd just take the runner up spot. I'm lucky enough to have seen us qualify for every WC I've watched though since 1998. Not sure how it feels not having your country involved in it. How was 1994?
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Post by fca47 on Sept 10, 2023 13:15:21 GMT
The FA are happy with never winning or they would not put up with a second rate manager like Southgate
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Post by cobhamstokey on Sept 10, 2023 13:18:35 GMT
Overall we got pegged back by a very good side. Fuck knows what the penalty takers were about though. If Italy hadn't won that they'd be in better shape now. Good point. Would you rather have won that Euros final and then not qualified for the next two tournaments, or won it and then got to a QF twice (for sake of argument)? Football is more about the experiences for me, trophies are nice but if it came at the expense of participation in a WC then I think I'd just take the runner up spot. I'm lucky enough to have seen us qualify for every WC I've watched though since 1998. Not sure how it feels not having your country involved in it. How was 1994? I’ve seen every world cup since 78 and along with the South African world cup 94 was the worst where quality and entertainment were concerned. It was in the days when the US wasn’t big into football so there wasn’t a footy feel to it. Best for me were 82 and 90 though the Russian WC was excellent.
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Post by JoeinOz on Sept 10, 2023 13:41:03 GMT
Overall we got pegged back by a very good side. Fuck knows what the penalty takers were about though. If Italy hadn't won that they'd be in better shape now. Good point. Would you rather have won that Euros final and then not qualified for the next two tournaments, or won it and then got to a QF twice (for sake of argument)? Football is more about the experiences for me, trophies are nice but if it came at the expense of participation in a WC then I think I'd just take the runner up spot. I'm lucky enough to have seen us qualify for every WC I've watched though since 1998. Not sure how it feels not having your country involved in it. How was 1994? I really enjoyed 94. It was a good tournament. 78 was my first so didn'tknowthe difference. When we didn't reach 1984 hardly any of it was televised... which is indicative of the insular approach that's traditionally hampered us
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Post by Mystic Stokie on Sept 10, 2023 14:23:27 GMT
I think the gripe people have isn't so much the result, it's more about the overall performance. I didn't think it was catastrophic or anything. We weren't creative enough but having said that, crap Harry's vall for the equaliser was just marvellous. Central defence is problematic but we already knew that. Needs working out Joe, No, a point away to Ukraine isn't the end of the world, but the performance was dire once again, and not one of those players plays like that for their clubs (Even Maguire and Henderson). They are all front foot players looking to move the ball forward, week in week out regardless of who they are playing.
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Post by werrington on Sept 10, 2023 14:27:06 GMT
I didn't think it was catastrophic or anything. We weren't creative enough but having said that, crap Harry's vall for the equaliser was just marvellous. Central defence is problematic but we already knew that. Needs working out Joe, No, a point away to Ukraine isn't the end of the world, but the performance was dire once again, and not one of those players plays like that for their clubs (Even Maguire and Henderson). They are all front foot players looking to move the ball forward, week in week out regardless of who they are playing. Once again?
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Post by davejohnno1 on Sept 10, 2023 14:52:35 GMT
Joe, No, a point away to Ukraine isn't the end of the world, but the performance was dire once again, and not one of those players plays like that for their clubs (Even Maguire and Henderson). They are all front foot players looking to move the ball forward, week in week out regardless of who they are playing. Once again? I can’t believe you are on board with the international version of Tony Pulis Wezza? You are as big an England fan as I know. Do you really believe Southgate is the right man for the job?
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Post by Mystic Stokie on Sept 10, 2023 14:57:52 GMT
Joe, No, a point away to Ukraine isn't the end of the world, but the performance was dire once again, and not one of those players plays like that for their clubs (Even Maguire and Henderson). They are all front foot players looking to move the ball forward, week in week out regardless of who they are playing. Once again? Without doubt. I also don't recall a single outstanding team performance against quality opposition since Southgate has been in charge. If we did not have the talent that we have then there would be no complaints from me. Just for clarification,I was a Pulis fan for most of his time at Stoke ( and I do remember some outstanding performances against quality opposition with him).
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Post by werrington on Sept 10, 2023 15:04:07 GMT
I can’t believe you are on board with the international version of Tony Pulis Wezza? You are as big an England fan as I know. Do you really believe Southgate is the right man for the job? He’s far from Pulis mate 😊 I ebb and flow in regards him tbh but to say the football is dire is a different thing altogether ….as recent results have shown
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Post by werrington on Sept 10, 2023 15:04:25 GMT
Without doubt. I also don't recall a single outstanding team performance against quality opposition since Southgate has been in charge. If we did not have the talent that we have then there would be no complaints from me. Just for clarification,I was a Pulis fan for most of his time at Stoke ( and I do remember some outstanding performances against quality opposition with him). Italy away?
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Post by Mystic Stokie on Sept 10, 2023 15:07:55 GMT
Without doubt. I also don't recall a single outstanding team performance against quality opposition since Southgate has been in charge. If we did not have the talent that we have then there would be no complaints from me. Just for clarification,I was a Pulis fan for most of his time at Stoke ( and I do remember some outstanding performances against quality opposition with him). Italy away? Not bad. Anymore ? How long has he been the manager ?
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Post by werrington on Sept 10, 2023 15:09:06 GMT
Not bad. Anymore ? How long has he been the manager ? France in the World Cup Spain away a few years ago I’m not actually defending him I’m just saying the football isn’t dire
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Post by davejohnno1 on Sept 10, 2023 15:38:53 GMT
I can’t believe you are on board with the international version of Tony Pulis Wezza? You are as big an England fan as I know. Do you really believe Southgate is the right man for the job? He’s far from Pulis mate 😊 I ebb and glow in regards him tbh but to say the football is dire is a different thing altogether ….as recent results have shown But we rarely play anyone decent and when we do we invariably fall short. The line up yesterday, and the way he utilised his better players, was embarrassing, Two decent tournaments have been in spite of him, not because of him.
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